It's not abuse or harassment because it's clearly consensual but a 74 year old man dating a 22 year old woman makes me feel uncomfortable. It is happening in the world of Rock 'n Roll. Top story on Mail on line.
Why does it make you uncomfortable?
I thought the rule in polite society was: half your age plus 7...
Deneuve has been in some amazing films but she is of another time as far as this is concerned. And touching knees or 'stealing' kisses is the least of it. She's making it sound like these are schoolboys, not powerful men with the means to destroy careers
In Hollywood and the film industry the casting couch has been around since the silent movies. Will actors and actresses now get jobs on merit and not because some decided the fast track route was the way to go. Harvey Weinstein sounds like an odious man but why didn't the successful women A Listers speak out to stop him and other Film moguls before ? Because when you are earning millions of dollars a film they left it to the lesser lights to whistle blow. The silence of the Lambs.
Deneuve has been in some amazing films but she is of another time as far as this is concerned. And touching knees or 'stealing' kisses is the least of it. She's making it sound like these are schoolboys, not powerful men with the means to destroy careers
She is trivialising the issue as there is undoubtedly a serious side to this - the focus needs to remain on the worst excesses of behaviour.
Deneuve has been in some amazing films but she is of another time as far as this is concerned. And touching knees or 'stealing' kisses is the least of it. She's making it sound like these are schoolboys, not powerful men with the means to destroy careers
Its not just her, there are a group of women behind this. They are trying (quite rightly imo) to put a bit of balance to the recent hullabaloo & saying that a man should be able to flirt & try to seduce a women. Obviously any sexual harassment or abuse is totally wrong, but I feel that recently things have gone too far with the demonising of certain people for having the audacity to touch someone's knee.
Deneuve has been in some amazing films but she is of another time as far as this is concerned. And touching knees or 'stealing' kisses is the least of it. She's making it sound like these are schoolboys, not powerful men with the means to destroy careers
Its not just her, there are a group of women behind this. They are trying (quite rightly imo) to put a bit of balance to the recent hullabaloo & saying that a man should be able to flirt & try to seduce a women. Obviously any sexual harassment or abuse is totally wrong, but I feel that recently things have gone too far with the demonising of certain people for having the audacity to touch someone's knee.
Sure.
Just don’t do it at work, or in a meeting that’s supposedly for work.
Deneuve has been in some amazing films but she is of another time as far as this is concerned. And touching knees or 'stealing' kisses is the least of it. She's making it sound like these are schoolboys, not powerful men with the means to destroy careers
Its not just her, there are a group of women behind this. They are trying (quite rightly imo) to put a bit of balance to the recent hullabaloo & saying that a man should be able to flirt & try to seduce a women. Obviously any sexual harassment or abuse is totally wrong, but I feel that recently things have gone too far with the demonising of certain people for having the audacity to touch someone's knee.
Who exactly has been demonized in this way? I thought this was about more serious issues?
In Hollywood and the film industry the casting couch has been around since the silent movies. Will actors and actresses now get jobs on merit and not because some decided the fast track route was the way to go. Harvey Weinstein sounds like an odious man but why didn't the successful women A Listers speak out to stop him and other Film moguls before ? Because when you are earning millions of dollars a film they left it to the lesser lights to whistle blow. The silence of the Lambs.
But I think there's a subtle bias here that has popped up a lot. Why does it have to be women A-Listers who speak out?
And I think on a more macro level, as a society we do not listen to women when they talk about sexual assault and abuse.
AND on top of that, Harvey Weinstein had an almost comedic if it weren't so terrible operation to silence people and attack victims.
Deneuve has been in some amazing films but she is of another time as far as this is concerned. And touching knees or 'stealing' kisses is the least of it. She's making it sound like these are schoolboys, not powerful men with the means to destroy careers
Its not just her, there are a group of women behind this. They are trying (quite rightly imo) to put a bit of balance to the recent hullabaloo & saying that a man should be able to flirt & try to seduce a women. Obviously any sexual harassment or abuse is totally wrong, but I feel that recently things have gone too far with the demonising of certain people for having the audacity to touch someone's knee.
Which men have recently got into trouble for "flirting" or "trying to seduce women".
Deneuve's letter is creating a bit of a straw-man argument isn't it which completely deflects from the actual issue.
Deneuve has been in some amazing films but she is of another time as far as this is concerned. And touching knees or 'stealing' kisses is the least of it. She's making it sound like these are schoolboys, not powerful men with the means to destroy careers
Its not just her, there are a group of women behind this. They are trying (quite rightly imo) to put a bit of balance to the recent hullabaloo & saying that a man should be able to flirt & try to seduce a women. Obviously any sexual harassment or abuse is totally wrong, but I feel that recently things have gone too far with the demonising of certain people for having the audacity to touch someone's knee.
Which men have recently got into trouble for "flirting" or "trying to seduce women".
Deneuve's letter is creating a bit of a straw-man argument isn't it which completely deflects from the actual issue.
One person's flirting is another person's harassment from what I have observed in 40 plus years in the workplace.
I find the easiest thing is to avoid all women in the workplace completely unless there is a need to interact in a professional context.
This stems from when I started full time work and had to travel and stay away sometimes with female colleagues.
My immediate superior at the time made it abundantly clear that 'poking the payroll' as he put it was off limits be it females from the client or our own firm and would be a sackable offence.
Deneuve has been in some amazing films but she is of another time as far as this is concerned. And touching knees or 'stealing' kisses is the least of it. She's making it sound like these are schoolboys, not powerful men with the means to destroy careers
Its not just her, there are a group of women behind this. They are trying (quite rightly imo) to put a bit of balance to the recent hullabaloo & saying that a man should be able to flirt & try to seduce a women. Obviously any sexual harassment or abuse is totally wrong, but I feel that recently things have gone too far with the demonising of certain people for having the audacity to touch someone's knee.
Which men have recently got into trouble for "flirting" or "trying to seduce women".
Deneuve's letter is creating a bit of a straw-man argument isn't it which completely deflects from the actual issue.
One person's flirting is another person's harassment from what I have observed in 40 plus years in the workplace.
I find the easiest thing is to avoid all women in the workplace completely unless there is a need to interact in a professional context.
This stems from when I started full time work and had to travel and stay away sometimes with female colleagues.
My immediate superior at the time made it abundantly clear that 'poking the payroll' as he put it was off limits be it females from the client or our own firm and would be a sackable offence.
Deneuve has been in some amazing films but she is of another time as far as this is concerned. And touching knees or 'stealing' kisses is the least of it. She's making it sound like these are schoolboys, not powerful men with the means to destroy careers
Its not just her, there are a group of women behind this. They are trying (quite rightly imo) to put a bit of balance to the recent hullabaloo & saying that a man should be able to flirt & try to seduce a women. Obviously any sexual harassment or abuse is totally wrong, but I feel that recently things have gone too far with the demonising of certain people for having the audacity to touch someone's knee.
Which men have recently got into trouble for "flirting" or "trying to seduce women".
Deneuve's letter is creating a bit of a straw-man argument isn't it which completely deflects from the actual issue.
One person's flirting is another person's harassment from what I have observed in 40 plus years in the workplace.
I find the easiest thing is to avoid all women in the workplace completely unless there is a need to interact in a professional context.
This stems from when I started full time work and had to travel and stay away sometimes with female colleagues.
My immediate superior at the time made it abundantly clear that 'poking the payroll' as he put it was off limits be it females from the client or our own firm and would be a sackable offence.
Doesn't that create other problems though? You could be accused of deliberately blanking the women, and not the men. How does it work if you have to make a decision about a colleague, and you know the male colleagues well, but have had little interaction with the women?
Got punched in restaurant last night ( don't know if anyone else mentioned it so apologies if they did )
I'm genuinely shocked he would go to somewhere so public and not expect that sort of response. Wrong or right.. there are people who will happily slap him!
Deneuve has been in some amazing films but she is of another time as far as this is concerned. And touching knees or 'stealing' kisses is the least of it. She's making it sound like these are schoolboys, not powerful men with the means to destroy careers
Its not just her, there are a group of women behind this. They are trying (quite rightly imo) to put a bit of balance to the recent hullabaloo & saying that a man should be able to flirt & try to seduce a women. Obviously any sexual harassment or abuse is totally wrong, but I feel that recently things have gone too far with the demonising of certain people for having the audacity to touch someone's knee.
Which men have recently got into trouble for "flirting" or "trying to seduce women".
Deneuve's letter is creating a bit of a straw-man argument isn't it which completely deflects from the actual issue.
One person's flirting is another person's harassment from what I have observed in 40 plus years in the workplace.
I find the easiest thing is to avoid all women in the workplace completely unless there is a need to interact in a professional context.
This stems from when I started full time work and had to travel and stay away sometimes with female colleagues.
My immediate superior at the time made it abundantly clear that 'poking the payroll' as he put it was off limits be it females from the client or our own firm and would be a sackable offence.
Doesn't that create other problems though? You could be accused of deliberately blanking the women, and not the men. How does it work if you have to make a decision about a colleague, and you know the male colleagues well, but have had little interaction with the women?
I'm subtle as to how I do it. I'll say 'good morning' and 'good night' and talk about the weather if they happen to come into the kitchen when I'm there. They are about the only 'non-work' occasions I have any need to speak to them. We are not a social firm and what few social events there are I rarely attend anyway.
Deneuve has been in some amazing films but she is of another time as far as this is concerned. And touching knees or 'stealing' kisses is the least of it. She's making it sound like these are schoolboys, not powerful men with the means to destroy careers
Its not just her, there are a group of women behind this. They are trying (quite rightly imo) to put a bit of balance to the recent hullabaloo & saying that a man should be able to flirt & try to seduce a women. Obviously any sexual harassment or abuse is totally wrong, but I feel that recently things have gone too far with the demonising of certain people for having the audacity to touch someone's knee.
Which men have recently got into trouble for "flirting" or "trying to seduce women".
Deneuve's letter is creating a bit of a straw-man argument isn't it which completely deflects from the actual issue.
One person's flirting is another person's harassment from what I have observed in 40 plus years in the workplace.
I find the easiest thing is to avoid all women in the workplace completely unless there is a need to interact in a professional context.
This stems from when I started full time work and had to travel and stay away sometimes with female colleagues.
My immediate superior at the time made it abundantly clear that 'poking the payroll' as he put it was off limits be it females from the client or our own firm and would be a sackable offence.
Pro tip: don’t try to flirt at work? Works for me. Times I’ve been turned down : 1000000000, times I’ve flirted at work: 0, amount of sexual harassment filed against me: 0
Deneuve has been in some amazing films but she is of another time as far as this is concerned. And touching knees or 'stealing' kisses is the least of it. She's making it sound like these are schoolboys, not powerful men with the means to destroy careers
Its not just her, there are a group of women behind this. They are trying (quite rightly imo) to put a bit of balance to the recent hullabaloo & saying that a man should be able to flirt & try to seduce a women. Obviously any sexual harassment or abuse is totally wrong, but I feel that recently things have gone too far with the demonising of certain people for having the audacity to touch someone's knee.
Which men have recently got into trouble for "flirting" or "trying to seduce women".
Deneuve's letter is creating a bit of a straw-man argument isn't it which completely deflects from the actual issue.
One person's flirting is another person's harassment from what I have observed in 40 plus years in the workplace.
I find the easiest thing is to avoid all women in the workplace completely unless there is a need to interact in a professional context.
This stems from when I started full time work and had to travel and stay away sometimes with female colleagues.
My immediate superior at the time made it abundantly clear that 'poking the payroll' as he put it was off limits be it females from the client or our own firm and would be a sackable offence.
Those people are flirting wrong.
People are different. Some women like attention others look like they wish the floor would open and swallow them when spoken to.
The problem is one of empathy and spotting when others are uncomfortable.
It's not just men to women incidentally.
As a young man I had to visit a factory where the majority of employees were women and some of the comments and antics I encountered when on the factory floor were most definitely not professional!
I am a bit of a 'water off a ducks back' type person in the workplace, even though I notice much more than I choose to comment on, and just used to continue as if nothing had occurred but I had male colleagues who were genuinely shocked by what they witnessed.
I work in an office that’s 80% female at the moment. I’ve had absolutely no trouble not flirting with any of them, even though I’m single.
There are a couple I’d like to ask out, and figured it’s probably best not to, but honestly Len, it seems kinda strange to me that you take such an approach to all women. There’s playing it safe, and then there’s Mike Pence.
I work in an office that’s 80% female at the moment. I’ve had absolutely no trouble not flirting with any of them, even though I’m single.
There are a couple I’d like to ask out, and figured it’s probably best not to, but honestly Len, it seems kinda strange to me that you take such an approach to all women. There’s playing it safe, and then there’s Mike Pence.
I work in an office that’s 80% female at the moment. I’ve had absolutely no trouble not flirting with any of them, even though I’m single.
There are a couple I’d like to ask out, and figured it’s probably best not to, but honestly Len, it seems kinda strange to me that you take such an approach to all women. There’s playing it safe, and then there’s Mike Pence.
I do interact with the women in the workplace but purely in a business sense unless being polite and passing the time of day in communal areas.
You've met me so probably realise that I am not 'Mr Gregarious' by nature anyway be it men or women!
I work in an office that’s 80% female at the moment. I’ve had absolutely no trouble not flirting with any of them, even though I’m single.
There are a couple I’d like to ask out, and figured it’s probably best not to, but honestly Len, it seems kinda strange to me that you take such an approach to all women. There’s playing it safe, and then there’s Mike Pence.
It's not a bloody crime to ask a woman out! Do you really think like this? What a sad world this has become if that is what young people think nowadays.
Comments
Just don’t do it at work, or in a meeting that’s supposedly for work.
And I think on a more macro level, as a society we do not listen to women when they talk about sexual assault and abuse.
AND on top of that, Harvey Weinstein had an almost comedic if it weren't so terrible operation to silence people and attack victims.
https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/sexual-misconduct/six-women-say-weinstein-cover-was-racketeering-new-lawsuit-n827091
Deneuve's letter is creating a bit of a straw-man argument isn't it which completely deflects from the actual issue.
I find the easiest thing is to avoid all women in the workplace completely unless there is a need to interact in a professional context.
This stems from when I started full time work and had to travel and stay away sometimes with female colleagues.
My immediate superior at the time made it abundantly clear that 'poking the payroll' as he put it was off limits be it females from the client or our own firm and would be a sackable offence.
I'm genuinely shocked he would go to somewhere so public and not expect that sort of response. Wrong or right.. there are people who will happily slap him!
The problem is one of empathy and spotting when others are uncomfortable.
It's not just men to women incidentally.
As a young man I had to visit a factory where the majority of employees were women and some of the comments and antics I encountered when on the factory floor were most definitely not professional!
I am a bit of a 'water off a ducks back' type person in the workplace, even though I notice much more than I choose to comment on, and just used to continue as if nothing had occurred but I had male colleagues who were genuinely shocked by what they witnessed.
There are a couple I’d like to ask out, and figured it’s probably best not to, but honestly Len, it seems kinda strange to me that you take such an approach to all women. There’s playing it safe, and then there’s Mike Pence.
You've met me so probably realise that I am not 'Mr Gregarious' by nature anyway be it men or women!