There's an element of this story which is being treated as "peculiarly Hollywood." It isn't. This kind of harassment exists in all walks of life in all professions. This should be common knowledge by now. Here is a good list of things men can do to change their behavior and the world around them. I'm sure at least a couple apply to you, I know they do to me. Bolding the ones I think are applicable to me (these are to varying degrees, some, like talking over women, are blatant, others, like involving women in creative projects and giving them equal credit, or pay women the same, are things I've tried/try to do but feel I could do better). https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2017/oct/16/a-simple-list-of-things-men-can-do-to-change-our-work-and-life-culture
-Talk to your friend who is “kind of a creep” at work. -Don’t talk over women. -If you are asked to be on a panel/team and see that it’s all men, say something. Maybe even refuse the spot! -When you see another guy talk over a woman, say: “Hey, she was saying something.” -Learn to read a fucking room. -Don’t call women “crazy” in a professional setting. -Don’t use your “feminism” as a way to get women to trust you. Show us in your day-to-day life, not in your self-congratulatory social media. -Don’t touch women you don’t know, and honestly, ask yourself why you feel the need to touch women in general. -Do you feel that any woman on earth owes you something? She doesn’t. Even if you’re like, “Hm, but what about basic respect?” ask yourself if you’ve shown her the same. -Don’t send pictures of your penis unless she just asked for them. -If a woman says no to a date, don’t ask her again. -If a woman has not given an enthusiastic “yes” to sex, back the hell off. -If a woman is really drunk, she cannot consent to you and she also cannot consent to your buddy who seems to be trying something. Your buddy is your responsibility, so say something and intervene. -If you do the right thing, don’t expect praise or payment or a pat on the back or even a “thank you from that woman”. Congratulations, you were baseline decent. -Involve women in your creative projects, then let them have equal part in them. -Don’t make misogynistic jokes. -Don’t expect women to be “nice” or “cute” and don’t get upset when they aren’t those things. -Don’t make assumptions about a woman’s intelligence, capabilities or desires based on how she dresses. -Pay women as much as you pay men. -If a woman tells you that you fucked up, and you feel like shit, don’t put it on that woman to make you feel better. Apologize without qualification and then go away. -Don’t punish women for witnessing your vulnerability. -Don’t get defensive when you get called out. -Don’t need to literally witness a man being horrible in order to believe that he’s horrible. Trust and believe women. -Don’t use your power to get women’s attention/company/sex/etc. -Be aware of your inherent power in situations and use it to protect women, especially via talking to other men. -Stop thinking that because you’re also marginalized or a survivor that you cannot inflict pain or oppress women. -If women’s pain makes you feel pain, don’t prize your pain above hers, or make that pain her problem. -Don’t read a list like this and think that most of these don’t apply to you. (These also apply to how to better treat transgender and non-binary people, who are in more danger than cis women).
Thankyou SD I now feel nicely patronized.
The definitive “cuck” list .
Are you saying that you do all of those things on the list, because you're a real man?
On a slightly separate note, did anyone catch the debate around transgender last night on newsnight - I'm only mentioning it because it touched upon behaviours and stereotypes similar to outdated practices that have allowed Weinstein to behave as he has
I'll be honest I was completely lost. The terms the panel were using around micro triggers of aggression and what's acceptable was totally baffling
I sort of take the view live and let live, but they were all trying to outdo one another on pseudo intellectual terms and language. I think it just complicates things more
On a slightly separate note, did anyone catch the debate around transgender last night on newsnight - I'm only mentioning it because it touched upon behaviours and stereotypes similar to outdated practices that have allowed Weinstein to behave as he has
I'll be honest I was completely lost. The terms the panel were using around micro triggers of aggression and what's acceptable was totally baffling
I sort of take the view live and let live, but they were all trying to outdo one another on pseudo intellectual terms and language. I think it just complicates things more
On a slightly separate note, did anyone catch the debate around transgender last night on newsnight - I'm only mentioning it because it touched upon behaviours and stereotypes similar to outdated practices that have allowed Weinstein to behave as he has
I'll be honest I was completely lost. The terms the panel were using around micro triggers of aggression and what's acceptable was totally baffling
I sort of take the view live and let live, but they were all trying to outdo one another on pseudo intellectual terms and language. I think it just complicates things more
Bang on cuddles!
I saw it and basically thought they were all utter arseholes.
Amazing how you can wring your hands and plead for tolerance while trying to top trump and shout down the other guys in the room.
Also - some lectures putting warnings out to the students in case some of the subject matter offends them....wtf?!?
On a slightly separate note, did anyone catch the debate around transgender last night on newsnight - I'm only mentioning it because it touched upon behaviours and stereotypes similar to outdated practices that have allowed Weinstein to behave as he has
I'll be honest I was completely lost. The terms the panel were using around micro triggers of aggression and what's acceptable was totally baffling
I sort of take the view live and let live, but they were all trying to outdo one another on pseudo intellectual terms and language. I think it just complicates things more
You usually get one or more of these new professional provocateurs being interviewed or on included on panels
On a slightly separate note, did anyone catch the debate around transgender last night on newsnight - I'm only mentioning it because it touched upon behaviours and stereotypes similar to outdated practices that have allowed Weinstein to behave as he has
I'll be honest I was completely lost. The terms the panel were using around micro triggers of aggression and what's acceptable was totally baffling
I sort of take the view live and let live, but they were all trying to outdo one another on pseudo intellectual terms and language. I think it just complicates things more
Bang on cuddles!
I saw it and basically thought they were all utter arseholes.
Amazing how you can wring your hands and plead for tolerance while trying to top trump and shout down the other guys in the room.
Also - some lectures putting warnings out to the students in case some of the subject matter offends them....wtf?!?
I genuinely got lost about 30secs in. The gist of it (I think) was that feminists don't like transgender males, because they are still males and are sexual predators? That obviously irked the transgender community, but they then through in something about race as well.
but as you say suede, it doesn't help bring about change to the lay person if they debate this with people that try and out twat each other
On a slightly separate note, did anyone catch the debate around transgender last night on newsnight - I'm only mentioning it because it touched upon behaviours and stereotypes similar to outdated practices that have allowed Weinstein to behave as he has
I'll be honest I was completely lost. The terms the panel were using around micro triggers of aggression and what's acceptable was totally baffling
I sort of take the view live and let live, but they were all trying to outdo one another on pseudo intellectual terms and language. I think it just complicates things more
Bang on cuddles!
I saw it and basically thought they were all utter arseholes.
Amazing how you can wring your hands and plead for tolerance while trying to top trump and shout down the other guys in the room.
Also - some lectures putting warnings out to the students in case some of the subject matter offends them....wtf?!?
I genuinely got lost about 30secs in. The gist of it (I think) was that feminists don't like transgender males, because they are still males and are sexual predators? That obviously irked the transgender community, but they then through in something about race as well.
but as you say suede, it doesn't help bring about change to the lay person if they debate this with people that try and out twat each other
On a slightly separate note, did anyone catch the debate around transgender last night on newsnight - I'm only mentioning it because it touched upon behaviours and stereotypes similar to outdated practices that have allowed Weinstein to behave as he has
I'll be honest I was completely lost. The terms the panel were using around micro triggers of aggression and what's acceptable was totally baffling
I sort of take the view live and let live, but they were all trying to outdo one another on pseudo intellectual terms and language. I think it just complicates things more
Bang on cuddles!
I saw it and basically thought they were all utter arseholes.
Amazing how you can wring your hands and plead for tolerance while trying to top trump and shout down the other guys in the room.
Also - some lectures putting warnings out to the students in case some of the subject matter offends them....wtf?!?
I genuinely got lost about 30secs in. The gist of it (I think) was that feminists don't like transgender males, because they are still males and are sexual predators? That obviously irked the transgender community, but they then through in something about race as well.
but as you say suede, it doesn't help bring about change to the lay person if they debate this with people that try and out twat each other
Caster Semenya ?
I can't remember exactly as I lost interest when they started talking about micro triggers or some such shite. Just remember this woman on a boat dressed like a man saying she'd been around since the 50s and the new batch of transgenders don't know what it's like to be discriminated against.
Seemed like a competition to be the most discriminated against
There's an element of this story which is being treated as "peculiarly Hollywood." It isn't. This kind of harassment exists in all walks of life in all professions. This should be common knowledge by now. Here is a good list of things men can do to change their behavior and the world around them. I'm sure at least a couple apply to you, I know they do to me. Bolding the ones I think are applicable to me (these are to varying degrees, some, like talking over women, are blatant, others, like involving women in creative projects and giving them equal credit, or pay women the same, are things I've tried/try to do but feel I could do better). https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2017/oct/16/a-simple-list-of-things-men-can-do-to-change-our-work-and-life-culture
-Talk to your friend who is “kind of a creep” at work. -Don’t talk over women. -If you are asked to be on a panel/team and see that it’s all men, say something. Maybe even refuse the spot! -When you see another guy talk over a woman, say: “Hey, she was saying something.” -Learn to read a fucking room. -Don’t call women “crazy” in a professional setting. -Don’t use your “feminism” as a way to get women to trust you. Show us in your day-to-day life, not in your self-congratulatory social media. -Don’t touch women you don’t know, and honestly, ask yourself why you feel the need to touch women in general. -Do you feel that any woman on earth owes you something? She doesn’t. Even if you’re like, “Hm, but what about basic respect?” ask yourself if you’ve shown her the same. -Don’t send pictures of your penis unless she just asked for them. -If a woman says no to a date, don’t ask her again. -If a woman has not given an enthusiastic “yes” to sex, back the hell off. -If a woman is really drunk, she cannot consent to you and she also cannot consent to your buddy who seems to be trying something. Your buddy is your responsibility, so say something and intervene. -If you do the right thing, don’t expect praise or payment or a pat on the back or even a “thank you from that woman”. Congratulations, you were baseline decent. -Involve women in your creative projects, then let them have equal part in them. -Don’t make misogynistic jokes. -Don’t expect women to be “nice” or “cute” and don’t get upset when they aren’t those things. -Don’t make assumptions about a woman’s intelligence, capabilities or desires based on how she dresses. -Pay women as much as you pay men. -If a woman tells you that you fucked up, and you feel like shit, don’t put it on that woman to make you feel better. Apologize without qualification and then go away. -Don’t punish women for witnessing your vulnerability. -Don’t get defensive when you get called out. -Don’t need to literally witness a man being horrible in order to believe that he’s horrible. Trust and believe women. -Don’t use your power to get women’s attention/company/sex/etc. -Be aware of your inherent power in situations and use it to protect women, especially via talking to other men. -Stop thinking that because you’re also marginalized or a survivor that you cannot inflict pain or oppress women. -If women’s pain makes you feel pain, don’t prize your pain above hers, or make that pain her problem. -Don’t read a list like this and think that most of these don’t apply to you. (These also apply to how to better treat transgender and non-binary people, who are in more danger than cis women).
Thankyou SD I now feel nicely patronized.
The definitive “cuck” list .
Can't wait for you to complain next time someone calls you alt-right.
Let me be clear because I don't usually flag people. The term "cuck" has sexist, racist, homophobic, and anti-semitic undertones.
There's an element of this story which is being treated as "peculiarly Hollywood." It isn't. This kind of harassment exists in all walks of life in all professions. This should be common knowledge by now. Here is a good list of things men can do to change their behavior and the world around them. I'm sure at least a couple apply to you, I know they do to me. Bolding the ones I think are applicable to me (these are to varying degrees, some, like talking over women, are blatant, others, like involving women in creative projects and giving them equal credit, or pay women the same, are things I've tried/try to do but feel I could do better). https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2017/oct/16/a-simple-list-of-things-men-can-do-to-change-our-work-and-life-culture
-Talk to your friend who is “kind of a creep” at work. -Don’t talk over women. -If you are asked to be on a panel/team and see that it’s all men, say something. Maybe even refuse the spot! -When you see another guy talk over a woman, say: “Hey, she was saying something.” -Learn to read a fucking room. -Don’t call women “crazy” in a professional setting. -Don’t use your “feminism” as a way to get women to trust you. Show us in your day-to-day life, not in your self-congratulatory social media. -Don’t touch women you don’t know, and honestly, ask yourself why you feel the need to touch women in general. -Do you feel that any woman on earth owes you something? She doesn’t. Even if you’re like, “Hm, but what about basic respect?” ask yourself if you’ve shown her the same. -Don’t send pictures of your penis unless she just asked for them. -If a woman says no to a date, don’t ask her again. -If a woman has not given an enthusiastic “yes” to sex, back the hell off. -If a woman is really drunk, she cannot consent to you and she also cannot consent to your buddy who seems to be trying something. Your buddy is your responsibility, so say something and intervene. -If you do the right thing, don’t expect praise or payment or a pat on the back or even a “thank you from that woman”. Congratulations, you were baseline decent. -Involve women in your creative projects, then let them have equal part in them. -Don’t make misogynistic jokes. -Don’t expect women to be “nice” or “cute” and don’t get upset when they aren’t those things. -Don’t make assumptions about a woman’s intelligence, capabilities or desires based on how she dresses. -Pay women as much as you pay men. -If a woman tells you that you fucked up, and you feel like shit, don’t put it on that woman to make you feel better. Apologize without qualification and then go away. -Don’t punish women for witnessing your vulnerability. -Don’t get defensive when you get called out. -Don’t need to literally witness a man being horrible in order to believe that he’s horrible. Trust and believe women. -Don’t use your power to get women’s attention/company/sex/etc. -Be aware of your inherent power in situations and use it to protect women, especially via talking to other men. -Stop thinking that because you’re also marginalized or a survivor that you cannot inflict pain or oppress women. -If women’s pain makes you feel pain, don’t prize your pain above hers, or make that pain her problem. -Don’t read a list like this and think that most of these don’t apply to you. (These also apply to how to better treat transgender and non-binary people, who are in more danger than cis women).
Thankyou SD I now feel nicely patronized.
The definitive “cuck” list .
Can't wait for you to complain next time someone calls you alt-right.
Let me be clear because I don't usually flag people. The term "cuck" has sexist, racist, homophobic, and anti-semitic undertones.
Not in England it doesn't and I'm very much doubt Buckshee posted it in that context even if it does. It's short for cuckold as in the husband of a woman who cheats on him.
Seriously the level of sensitivity and looking to magnify offence in modern western society is damaging as it dilutes the real issues of racism, sexism, homophobia etc and devalues debate when everything is touted as being offensive for this reason or that reason.
Discrimination against someone on the basis of their skin/ sex/ sexuality is outdated and most would agree abhorrent but the constant highlighting of every minor quip or out of context remark does nothing to engage debate or thought but has the opposite effect of causing many people to switch off.
Moving towards a very grey, bland and corporate soulless world and this sort of shit enables it whilst distracting from the real nub of things that need eradicating. Gives power to the elbow of the real bigots who turn round and use stuff with the "see you can't say anything anymore" rhetoric to garner support from alienated people who have been ostracised for off the cuff comments etc.
Not a dig at you SD as I agree with a hell of a lot of what you post but it gets exasperating but as a white middle class male and ergo the root of all evil in the world today and since the dawn of time I probably would say this.
There's an element of this story which is being treated as "peculiarly Hollywood." It isn't. This kind of harassment exists in all walks of life in all professions. This should be common knowledge by now. Here is a good list of things men can do to change their behavior and the world around them. I'm sure at least a couple apply to you, I know they do to me. Bolding the ones I think are applicable to me (these are to varying degrees, some, like talking over women, are blatant, others, like involving women in creative projects and giving them equal credit, or pay women the same, are things I've tried/try to do but feel I could do better). https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2017/oct/16/a-simple-list-of-things-men-can-do-to-change-our-work-and-life-culture
-Talk to your friend who is “kind of a creep” at work. -Don’t talk over women. -If you are asked to be on a panel/team and see that it’s all men, say something. Maybe even refuse the spot! -When you see another guy talk over a woman, say: “Hey, she was saying something.” -Learn to read a fucking room. -Don’t call women “crazy” in a professional setting. -Don’t use your “feminism” as a way to get women to trust you. Show us in your day-to-day life, not in your self-congratulatory social media. -Don’t touch women you don’t know, and honestly, ask yourself why you feel the need to touch women in general. -Do you feel that any woman on earth owes you something? She doesn’t. Even if you’re like, “Hm, but what about basic respect?” ask yourself if you’ve shown her the same. -Don’t send pictures of your penis unless she just asked for them. -If a woman says no to a date, don’t ask her again. -If a woman has not given an enthusiastic “yes” to sex, back the hell off. -If a woman is really drunk, she cannot consent to you and she also cannot consent to your buddy who seems to be trying something. Your buddy is your responsibility, so say something and intervene. -If you do the right thing, don’t expect praise or payment or a pat on the back or even a “thank you from that woman”. Congratulations, you were baseline decent. -Involve women in your creative projects, then let them have equal part in them. -Don’t make misogynistic jokes. -Don’t expect women to be “nice” or “cute” and don’t get upset when they aren’t those things. -Don’t make assumptions about a woman’s intelligence, capabilities or desires based on how she dresses. -Pay women as much as you pay men. -If a woman tells you that you fucked up, and you feel like shit, don’t put it on that woman to make you feel better. Apologize without qualification and then go away. -Don’t punish women for witnessing your vulnerability. -Don’t get defensive when you get called out. -Don’t need to literally witness a man being horrible in order to believe that he’s horrible. Trust and believe women. -Don’t use your power to get women’s attention/company/sex/etc. -Be aware of your inherent power in situations and use it to protect women, especially via talking to other men. -Stop thinking that because you’re also marginalized or a survivor that you cannot inflict pain or oppress women. -If women’s pain makes you feel pain, don’t prize your pain above hers, or make that pain her problem. -Don’t read a list like this and think that most of these don’t apply to you. (These also apply to how to better treat transgender and non-binary people, who are in more danger than cis women).
Thankyou SD I now feel nicely patronized.
The definitive “cuck” list .
Can't wait for you to complain next time someone calls you alt-right.
Let me be clear because I don't usually flag people. The term "cuck" has sexist, racist, homophobic, and anti-semitic undertones.
Not in England it doesn't and I'm very much doubt Buckshee posted it in that context even if it does. It's short for cuckold as in the husband of a woman who cheats on him.
Seriously the level of sensitivity and looking to magnify offence in modern western society is damaging as it dilutes the real issues of racism, sexism, homophobia etc and devalues debate when everything is touted as being offensive for this reason or that reason.
Discrimination against someone on the basis of their skin/ sex/ sexuality is outdated and most would agree abhorrent but the constant highlighting of every minor quip or out of context remark does nothing to engage debate or thought but has the opposite effect of causing many people to switch off.
Moving towards a very grey, bland and corporate soulless world and this sort of shit enables it whilst distracting from the real nub of things that need eradicating. Gives power to the elbow of the real bigots who turn round and use stuff with the "see you can't say anything anymore" rhetoric to garner support from alienated people who have been ostracised for off the cuff comments etc.
Not a dig at you SD as I agree with a hell of a lot of what you post but it gets exasperating but as a white middle class male and ergo the root of all evil in the world today and since the dawn of time I probably would say this.
buckshee meant it exactly in its bigoted meme-wars context. Have you ever read his posts before? And how else can you explain 'cuck list' in response to a list of...well, basic human decency? Even a slightly patronising one?
Look, I agree that sometimes people take offence a little performatively and with disregard to context - hell, I've done that in the past. But I really do think that if you scrape away the thin layer of self-congratulatory noise emanating from a few, you find a world of genuine resentment, where people are undoubtedly discriminated against unfairly and treated like inferiors by the establishment. (This applies to class as well as race or gender - we all have a dog in this fight!) And you find people who genuinely want to challenge this unfairness - either positively, by presentation of non-hegemonic role models, or negatively, by telling people to stop it with their shit, as it makes them feel terrible.
Most stuff said on this website is not going to make anybody feel terrible - even the offensive stuff. Nobody opens those Would Ya? threads except the bored horny men seeking the solace of some crumpet amidst their day - you know who you are! But sometimes (not often) there's an attitude expressed so poisonous that it would be negligent not to point out how shitty it is. Don't worry, most of you are safe from the crippling scourge of being asked not to, say, objectify literally every woman that comes up in conversation. But I know you must live in dreadful fear of it. Imagine going about your say and then being told that you're being inappropriate! It must be very hard for you all on this website with humourless tone-police like me and SD around!
Other people have different experiences and we'd do well to respect that. This doesn't mean bland soulless corporate Orwellian war on language. It means: don't be a twat
There's an element of this story which is being treated as "peculiarly Hollywood." It isn't. This kind of harassment exists in all walks of life in all professions. This should be common knowledge by now. Here is a good list of things men can do to change their behavior and the world around them. I'm sure at least a couple apply to you, I know they do to me. Bolding the ones I think are applicable to me (these are to varying degrees, some, like talking over women, are blatant, others, like involving women in creative projects and giving them equal credit, or pay women the same, are things I've tried/try to do but feel I could do better). https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2017/oct/16/a-simple-list-of-things-men-can-do-to-change-our-work-and-life-culture
-Talk to your friend who is “kind of a creep” at work. -Don’t talk over women. -If you are asked to be on a panel/team and see that it’s all men, say something. Maybe even refuse the spot! -When you see another guy talk over a woman, say: “Hey, she was saying something.” -Learn to read a fucking room. -Don’t call women “crazy” in a professional setting. -Don’t use your “feminism” as a way to get women to trust you. Show us in your day-to-day life, not in your self-congratulatory social media. -Don’t touch women you don’t know, and honestly, ask yourself why you feel the need to touch women in general. -Do you feel that any woman on earth owes you something? She doesn’t. Even if you’re like, “Hm, but what about basic respect?” ask yourself if you’ve shown her the same. -Don’t send pictures of your penis unless she just asked for them. -If a woman says no to a date, don’t ask her again. -If a woman has not given an enthusiastic “yes” to sex, back the hell off. -If a woman is really drunk, she cannot consent to you and she also cannot consent to your buddy who seems to be trying cannot inflict pain or oppress women. -If women’s pain makes you feel pain, don’t prize your pain above hers, or make that pain her problem. -Don’t read a list like this and think that most of these don’t apply to you. (These also apply to how to better treat transgender and non-binary people, who are in more danger than cis women).
Thankyou SD I now feel nicely patronized.
The definitive “cuck” list .
Can't wait for you to complain next time someone calls you alt-right.
Let me be clear because I don't usually flag people. The term "cuck" has sexist, racist, homophobic, and anti-semitic undertones.
Not in England it doesn't and I'm very much doubt Buckshee posted it in that context even if it does. It's short for cuckold as in the husband of a woman who cheats on him.
Seriously the level of sensitivity and looking to magnify offence in modern western society is damaging as it dilutes the real issues of racism, sexism, homophobia etc and devalues debate when everything is touted as being offensive for this reason or that reason.
Discrimination against someone on the basis of their skin/ sex/ sexuality is outdated and most would agree abhorrent but the constant highlighting of every minor quip or out of context remark does nothing to engage debate or thought but has the opposite effect of causing many people to switch off.
Moving towards a very grey, bland and corporate soulless world and this sort of shit enables it whilst distracting from the real nub of things that need eradicating. Gives power to the elbow of the real bigots who turn round and use stuff with the "see you can't say anything anymore" rhetoric to garner support from alienated people who have been ostracised for off the cuff comments etc.
Not a dig at you SD as I agree with a hell of a lot of what you post but it gets exasperating but as a white middle class male and ergo the root of all evil in the world today and since the dawn of time I probably would say this.
buckshee meant it exactly in its bigoted meme-wars context. Have you ever read his posts before? And how else can you explain 'cuck list' in response to a list of...well, basic human decency? Even a slightly patronising one?
Look, I agree that sometimes people take offence a little performatively and with disregard to context - hell, I've done that in the past. But I really do think that if you scrape away the thin layer of self-congratulatory noise emanating from a few, you find a world of genuine resentment, where people are undoubtedly discriminated against unfairly and treated like inferiors by the establishment. (This applies to class as well as race or gender - we all have a dog in this fight!) And you find people who genuinely want to challenge this unfairness - either positively, by presentation of non-hegemonic role models, or negatively, by telling people to stop it with their shit, as it makes them feel terrible.
Most stuff said on this website is not going to make anybody feel terrible - even the offensive stuff. Nobody opens those Would Ya? threads except the bored horny men seeking the solace of some crumpet amidst their day - you know who you are! But sometimes (not often) there's an attitude expressed so poisonous that it would be negligent not to point out how shitty it is. Don't worry, most of you are safe from the crippling scourge of being asked not to, say, objectify literally every woman that comes up in conversation. But I know you must live in dreadful fear of it. Imagine going about your say and then being told that you're being inappropriate! It must be very hard for you all on this website with humourless tone-police like me and SD around! Other people have different experiences and we'd do well to respect that. This doesn't mean bland soulless corporate Orwellian war on language. It means: don't be a twat
Having met him in person and knowing of the company he keeps I do not rely of using out of context posts to undeservedly and unwarrantedly (is that a word?) condemn him as being a rabid far right pseudo nazi that he seems to get unfairly labelled with by some of you on here.
And with regards to your closing sentence it cuts both ways...those jumping down people's throats every 5 seconds (out there in the world/media, not on here) should also reign in the twattery as for all their well meaning they're actually inadvertently hindering progression.
(Almost perfectly illustrated how this debate about uber political correctness etc has derailed and distracted from the fact a fat old nonce has been acting disgracefully to women over the past couple of decades!)
Just because there are a few empty vessels ringing loudly doesn't mean there isn't an underlying problem.
Also I don't think buckshee is really a Nazi. He's internet-literate and an edgelord (look it up) because being an edgelord winds up do-gooders (hi) and gives you a kick. It also conveniently allows you to dismiss any kind of leftism or nasty inconvenient social progress, but that's another storyyyy
Blimey, I think it's time my moderator training was renewed or my licence revoked. I've never heard of the term 'cuck' before let alone 'cuck list'.
In other news, I see that Robert Lindsay has (very eloquently, as you'd expect) laid into Weinstein. Accused him of halting his film career. Seems the Weinstein's not just a sex pest but a common or garden bully to boot. Who'd have thought it?
There's an element of this story which is being treated as "peculiarly Hollywood." It isn't. This kind of harassment exists in all walks of life in all professions. This should be common knowledge by now. Here is a good list of things men can do to change their behavior and the world around them. I'm sure at least a couple apply to you, I know they do to me. Bolding the ones I think are applicable to me (these are to varying degrees, some, like talking over women, are blatant, others, like involving women in creative projects and giving them equal credit, or pay women the same, are things I've tried/try to do but feel I could do better). https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2017/oct/16/a-simple-list-of-things-men-can-do-to-change-our-work-and-life-culture
-Talk to your friend who is “kind of a creep” at work. -Don’t talk over women. -If you are asked to be on a panel/team and see that it’s all men, say something. Maybe even refuse the spot! -When you see another guy talk over a woman, say: “Hey, she was saying something.” -Learn to read a fucking room. -Don’t call women “crazy” in a professional setting. -Don’t use your “feminism” as a way to get women to trust you. Show us in your day-to-day life, not in your self-congratulatory social media. -Don’t touch women you don’t know, and honestly, ask yourself why you feel the need to touch women in general. -Do you feel that any woman on earth owes you something? She doesn’t. Even if you’re like, “Hm, but what about basic respect?” ask yourself if you’ve shown her the same. -Don’t send pictures of your penis unless she just asked for them. -If a woman says no to a date, don’t ask her again. -If a woman has not given an enthusiastic “yes” to sex, back the hell off. -If a woman is really drunk, she cannot consent to you and she also cannot consent to your buddy who seems to be trying something. Your buddy is your responsibility, so say something and intervene. -If you do the right thing, don’t expect praise or payment or a pat on the back or even a “thank you from that woman”. Congratulations, you were baseline decent. -Involve women in your creative projects, then let them have equal part in them. -Don’t make misogynistic jokes. -Don’t expect women to be “nice” or “cute” and don’t get upset when they aren’t those things. -Don’t make assumptions about a woman’s intelligence, capabilities or desires based on how she dresses. -Pay women as much as you pay men. -If a woman tells you that you fucked up, and you feel like shit, don’t put it on that woman to make you feel better. Apologize without qualification and then go away. -Don’t punish women for witnessing your vulnerability. -Don’t get defensive when you get called out. -Don’t need to literally witness a man being horrible in order to believe that he’s horrible. Trust and believe women. -Don’t use your power to get women’s attention/company/sex/etc. -Be aware of your inherent power in situations and use it to protect women, especially via talking to other men. -Stop thinking that because you’re also marginalized or a survivor that you cannot inflict pain or oppress women. -If women’s pain makes you feel pain, don’t prize your pain above hers, or make that pain her problem. -Don’t read a list like this and think that most of these don’t apply to you. (These also apply to how to better treat transgender and non-binary people, who are in more danger than cis women).
There's an element of this story which is being treated as "peculiarly Hollywood." It isn't. This kind of harassment exists in all walks of life in all professions. This should be common knowledge by now. Here is a good list of things men can do to change their behavior and the world around them. I'm sure at least a couple apply to you, I know they do to me. Bolding the ones I think are applicable to me (these are to varying degrees, some, like talking over women, are blatant, others, like involving women in creative projects and giving them equal credit, or pay women the same, are things I've tried/try to do but feel I could do better). https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2017/oct/16/a-simple-list-of-things-men-can-do-to-change-our-work-and-life-culture
-Talk to your friend who is “kind of a creep” at work. -Don’t talk over women. -If you are asked to be on a panel/team and see that it’s all men, say something. Maybe even refuse the spot! -When you see another guy talk over a woman, say: “Hey, she was saying something.” -Learn to read a fucking room. -Don’t call women “crazy” in a professional setting. -Don’t use your “feminism” as a way to get women to trust you. Show us in your day-to-day life, not in your self-congratulatory social media. -Don’t touch women you don’t know, and honestly, ask yourself why you feel the need to touch women in general. -Do you feel that any woman on earth owes you something? She doesn’t. Even if you’re like, “Hm, but what about basic respect?” ask yourself if you’ve shown her the same. -Don’t send pictures of your penis unless she just asked for them. -If a woman says no to a date, don’t ask her again. -If a woman has not given an enthusiastic “yes” to sex, back the hell off. -If a woman is really drunk, she cannot consent to you and she also cannot consent to your buddy who seems to be trying something. Your buddy is your responsibility, so say something and intervene. -If you do the right thing, don’t expect praise or payment or a pat on the back or even a “thank you from that woman”. Congratulations, you were baseline decent. -Involve women in your creative projects, then let them have equal part in them. -Don’t make misogynistic jokes. -Don’t expect women to be “nice” or “cute” and don’t get upset when they aren’t those things. -Don’t make assumptions about a woman’s intelligence, capabilities or desires based on how she dresses. -Pay women as much as you pay men. -If a woman tells you that you fucked up, and you feel like shit, don’t put it on that woman to make you feel better. Apologize without qualification and then go away. -Don’t punish women for witnessing your vulnerability. -Don’t get defensive when you get called out. -Don’t need to literally witness a man being horrible in order to believe that he’s horrible. Trust and believe women. -Don’t use your power to get women’s attention/company/sex/etc. -Be aware of your inherent power in situations and use it to protect women, especially via talking to other men. -Stop thinking that because you’re also marginalized or a survivor that you cannot inflict pain or oppress women. -If women’s pain makes you feel pain, don’t prize your pain above hers, or make that pain her problem. -Don’t read a list like this and think that most of these don’t apply to you. (These also apply to how to better treat transgender and non-binary people, who are in more danger than cis women).
Thankyou SD I now feel nicely patronized.
The definitive “cuck” list .
Can't wait for you to complain next time someone calls you alt-right.
Let me be clear because I don't usually flag people. The term "cuck" has sexist, racist, homophobic, and anti-semitic undertones.
OK snowflake.
Let’s face it SD has long since incorrectly made his mind up about me so I couldn’t care less about his virtue signaling opinion.
N.B. for the cultural trainspotters amongst you, 'snowflake' and 'virtue signalling' are terms used specifically to denigrate progressive causes, although I suspect they're being used here to wind me & others up, and elicit a response. Hook, line and sinker!
Comments
I'll be honest I was completely lost. The terms the panel were using around micro triggers of aggression and what's acceptable was totally baffling
I sort of take the view live and let live, but they were all trying to outdo one another on pseudo intellectual terms and language. I think it just complicates things more
I saw it and basically thought they were all utter arseholes.
Amazing how you can wring your hands and plead for tolerance while trying to top trump and shout down the other guys in the room.
Also - some lectures putting warnings out to the students in case some of the subject matter offends them....wtf?!?
but as you say suede, it doesn't help bring about change to the lay person if they debate this with people that try and out twat each other
Seemed like a competition to be the most discriminated against
Let me be clear because I don't usually flag people. The term "cuck" has sexist, racist, homophobic, and anti-semitic undertones.
Seriously the level of sensitivity and looking to magnify offence in modern western society is damaging as it dilutes the real issues of racism, sexism, homophobia etc and devalues debate when everything is touted as being offensive for this reason or that reason.
Discrimination against someone on the basis of their skin/ sex/ sexuality is outdated and most would agree abhorrent but the constant highlighting of every minor quip or out of context remark does nothing to engage debate or thought but has the opposite effect of causing many people to switch off.
Moving towards a very grey, bland and corporate soulless world and this sort of shit enables it whilst distracting from the real nub of things that need eradicating. Gives power to the elbow of the real bigots who turn round and use stuff with the "see you can't say anything anymore" rhetoric to garner support from alienated people who have been ostracised for off the cuff comments etc.
Not a dig at you SD as I agree with a hell of a lot of what you post but it gets exasperating but as a white middle class male and ergo the root of all evil in the world today and since the dawn of time I probably would say this.
Look, I agree that sometimes people take offence a little performatively and with disregard to context - hell, I've done that in the past. But I really do think that if you scrape away the thin layer of self-congratulatory noise emanating from a few, you find a world of genuine resentment, where people are undoubtedly discriminated against unfairly and treated like inferiors by the establishment. (This applies to class as well as race or gender - we all have a dog in this fight!) And you find people who genuinely want to challenge this unfairness - either positively, by presentation of non-hegemonic role models, or negatively, by telling people to stop it with their shit, as it makes them feel terrible.
Most stuff said on this website is not going to make anybody feel terrible - even the offensive stuff. Nobody opens those Would Ya? threads except the bored horny men seeking the solace of some crumpet amidst their day - you know who you are! But sometimes (not often) there's an attitude expressed so poisonous that it would be negligent not to point out how shitty it is. Don't worry, most of you are safe from the crippling scourge of being asked not to, say, objectify literally every woman that comes up in conversation. But I know you must live in dreadful fear of it. Imagine going about your say and then being told that you're being inappropriate! It must be very hard for you all on this website with humourless tone-police like me and SD around!
Other people have different experiences and we'd do well to respect that. This doesn't mean bland soulless corporate Orwellian war on language. It means: don't be a twat
And with regards to your closing sentence it cuts both ways...those jumping down people's throats every 5 seconds (out there in the world/media, not on here) should also reign in the twattery as for all their well meaning they're actually inadvertently hindering progression.
(Almost perfectly illustrated how this debate about uber political correctness etc has derailed and distracted from the fact a fat old nonce has been acting disgracefully to women over the past couple of decades!)
Also I don't think buckshee is really a Nazi. He's internet-literate and an edgelord (look it up) because being an edgelord winds up do-gooders (hi) and gives you a kick. It also conveniently allows you to dismiss any kind of leftism or nasty inconvenient social progress, but that's another storyyyy
In other news, I see that Robert Lindsay has (very eloquently, as you'd expect) laid into Weinstein. Accused him of halting his film career. Seems the Weinstein's not just a sex pest but a common or garden bully to boot. Who'd have thought it?
To suggest that I am some incompassionate ape who doesn't care about sexual abuse is a fairly obvious perversion of my post.
As you were