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Bundesliga
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There's some pretty big teams in the Bundesliga 2.PragueAddick said:
Too stupid to be dodgy, surely?North Lower Neil said:Actually the second one looks really odd, as it clearly was a foul, but the ref didnt blow up before the defender picked the ball up. The home team is Magdeburg, BTW, another East German team on the up without any plastic help.Meanwhile in that 18-club league Schalke, in 13th place also drew 2-2 with Hertha Berlin. The attendance was 62,000!!
Schalke, Hamburg, Cologne, Hertha Berlin, Kaiserslautern. All of them get bigger crowds than the vast majority of the Bundesliga.0 -
So your reply prompted me to look up attendances for the top 2 divisions of both leagues last season. I think you'll be as surprised as I was (my surprise mainly due to the FAPL media narrative, mind, I already knew Bundesliga figures are very respectable and under-rated)Chris_from_Sidcup said:
There's some pretty big teams in the Bundesliga 2.PragueAddick said:
Too stupid to be dodgy, surely?North Lower Neil said:Actually the second one looks really odd, as it clearly was a foul, but the ref didnt blow up before the defender picked the ball up. The home team is Magdeburg, BTW, another East German team on the up without any plastic help.Meanwhile in that 18-club league Schalke, in 13th place also drew 2-2 with Hertha Berlin. The attendance was 62,000!!
Schalke, Hamburg, Cologne, Hertha Berlin, Kaiserslautern. All of them get bigger crowds than the vast majority of the Bundesliga.
FAPL 38,584
1-Bundesliga 39,490
Championship 23,042
2- Bundesliga 29,1890 -
I've been to a lot of Bundesliga matches (all Hertha Berlin). The highlight was the 2008-09 season where they almost took the title, I went to most of the home games. I must say, football in Germany is VASTLY superior as an experience to what we accept here. You can get on the beers, no issue at all. There's incredibly little fan violence or animosity, everyone gets on great. Fans over here somehow equate that to a lack of passion, which is complete nonsense, Hertha's core fan base is 10x more dedicated than anything you'll get in the covered end. Christ, you need to be dedicated to watch your team live when it's -20c outside (I've done it, it is horrible).2
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What about League One vs 3.Liga? OK then...
League One: 9,702
3.Liga 9,639
So we edge that, boosted by the mighty Addicks with the 4th highest attendance. Ah but there were two top league "B" teams playing in 3.Liga, which of course drags down their figure.
Well, well, well. I have never heard even fans of German football culture such as The Price of Football refer to these figures.
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Went to Ulm Vs Nuremberg about a month ago,as we couldn't get tickets for 1860 Munich Vs Dresden, it was a fantastic experience. Great beer in the supporters club bar before the game, great food in the ground and more beer watching the game from the home terrace. Quality atmosphere. Game was decent, 2 last minute pens and a red card to boot. Love German football2
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I think the Premier League attendances aren't helped by the shite little grounds that some of the recent teams play in, Brentford, Palace, Bournemouth and Fulham in particular are all smaller than The Valley.
Will be interesting to see % of capacity is used, does every team sell out every week?0 -
I haven't come across any source of those figures yet, but I believe a lot of them are full every week. Union Berlin could easily sell double but there's a strong feeling to keep the club "for themselves" at 25,000. Leverkusen, the champions, only have a 30,000 capacity. Cologne sell out 50,000 every game and they are perennially rubbish in the top tier and getting relegated. And then there's Schalke...62,000 every week in the second tier, I can hardly get my head around that.sam3110 said:I think the Premier League attendances aren't helped by the shite little grounds that some of the recent teams play in, Brentford, Palace, Bournemouth and Fulham in particular are all smaller than The Valley.
Will be interesting to see % of capacity is used, does every team sell out every week?0 -
That's what you call support through thick and thin.
Was in Cologne last November against Augsburg, full house, great atmosphere, football wasn't all that, Cologne bottom three, eventually got relegated.0 -
PL numbers not helped there by the fact that it had both Luton and Bournemouth with 12k capacities.PragueAddick said:
So your reply prompted me to look up attendances for the top 2 divisions of both leagues last season. I think you'll be as surprised as I was (my surprise mainly due to the FAPL media narrative, mind, I already knew Bundesliga figures are very respectable and under-rated)Chris_from_Sidcup said:
There's some pretty big teams in the Bundesliga 2.PragueAddick said:
Too stupid to be dodgy, surely?North Lower Neil said:Actually the second one looks really odd, as it clearly was a foul, but the ref didnt blow up before the defender picked the ball up. The home team is Magdeburg, BTW, another East German team on the up without any plastic help.Meanwhile in that 18-club league Schalke, in 13th place also drew 2-2 with Hertha Berlin. The attendance was 62,000!!
Schalke, Hamburg, Cologne, Hertha Berlin, Kaiserslautern. All of them get bigger crowds than the vast majority of the Bundesliga.
FAPL 38,584
1-Bundesliga 39,490
Championship 23,042
2- Bundesliga 29,1890 -
Sure but Germany can point to quite a few examples of constrained capacity too. And they dont have the opposite example, of a club with 20k higher attendances than they warrant, boosted by ten years and counting of constant “support” from the British taxpayer.Chris_from_Sidcup said:
PL numbers not helped there by the fact that it had both Luton and Bournemouth with 12k capacities.PragueAddick said:
So your reply prompted me to look up attendances for the top 2 divisions of both leagues last season. I think you'll be as surprised as I was (my surprise mainly due to the FAPL media narrative, mind, I already knew Bundesliga figures are very respectable and under-rated)Chris_from_Sidcup said:
There's some pretty big teams in the Bundesliga 2.PragueAddick said:
Too stupid to be dodgy, surely?North Lower Neil said:Actually the second one looks really odd, as it clearly was a foul, but the ref didnt blow up before the defender picked the ball up. The home team is Magdeburg, BTW, another East German team on the up without any plastic help.Meanwhile in that 18-club league Schalke, in 13th place also drew 2-2 with Hertha Berlin. The attendance was 62,000!!
Schalke, Hamburg, Cologne, Hertha Berlin, Kaiserslautern. All of them get bigger crowds than the vast majority of the Bundesliga.
FAPL 38,584
1-Bundesliga 39,490
Championship 23,042
2- Bundesliga 29,1890 -
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Dortmund currently leading Bayern 1-0 in Der Klassiker. Brilliant goal from Jamie Gittens who is still only 20 and is currently playing down the left, so he might well be in Tuchel's England plans.2
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Read an article today Europe's Best Race
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/c1km1zpx88jo
Im rooting for Hamburg.When I was 13yrs old I had a penpal Heike from Hamburg.
Ive always followed Hamburg since.
Probably loads that have no idea what a penpal is
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The top 3 of 2.Bundersliga are some of Germany's biggest clubs and that's not including Schalke down in 14thorpingtonRED said:Read an article today Europe's Best Race
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/c1km1zpx88jo
Im rooting for Hamburg.When I was 13yrs old I had a penpal Heike from Hamburg.
Ive always followed Hamburg since.
Probably loads that have no idea what a penpal is0 -
Rothko said:
The top 3 of 2.Bundersliga are some of Germany's biggest clubs and that's not including Schalke down in 14thorpingtonRED said:Read an article today Europe's Best Race
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/c1km1zpx88jo
Im rooting for Hamburg.When I was 13yrs old I had a penpal Heike from Hamburg.
Ive always followed Hamburg since.
Probably loads that have no idea what a penpal isAs of February 2025, the average attendance for 2. Bundesliga clubs is approximately **36,091** per match for the 2024/25 season. This figure reflects a significant increase from the previous season's average of **29,189**[1][4].### Top Average Attendances- **FC Schalke 04**: 61,650- **Hamburger SV**: 57,000- **Hertha BSC**: 50,970- **Hannover 96**: 35,082Additionally, seven clubs are averaging over **35,000** fans per game, showcasing the league's growing popularity and strong fan engagement[1][2][7].0 -
The fact that Bundesliga has B teams in its 3rd division has always taken the shine off for me.
I'm surprised they allow that actually given how much value they attach to fan ownership etc0 -
Schalke has an amazing following.PragueAddick said:Rothko said:
The top 3 of 2.Bundersliga are some of Germany's biggest clubs and that's not including Schalke down in 14thorpingtonRED said:Read an article today Europe's Best Race
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/c1km1zpx88jo
Im rooting for Hamburg.When I was 13yrs old I had a penpal Heike from Hamburg.
Ive always followed Hamburg since.
Probably loads that have no idea what a penpal isAs of February 2025, the average attendance for 2. Bundesliga clubs is approximately **36,091** per match for the 2024/25 season. This figure reflects a significant increase from the previous season's average of **29,189**[1][4].### Top Average Attendances- **FC Schalke 04**: 61,650- **Hamburger SV**: 57,000- **Hertha BSC**: 50,970- **Hannover 96**: 35,082Additionally, seven clubs are averaging over **35,000** fans per game, showcasing the league's growing popularity and strong fan engagement[1][2][7].
A couple of years ago I got a ticket through my BiL to Schalke v Dortmund in the Bundesliga. Stood in the Nord Kurve where the hardcore ultras stand. An incredible experience.
Schalke has sold 40.000 season tickets for the 24/25 season in the second division (2.000 more the Bayern Munich). The club itself has 190.400 members.
And yes, Schalke is my second club after The Addicks!
I was standing just to the right of where this photo was taken from.1 -
yes, I agree with you, especially when there are also some big clubs in that league, well capable of 20k plus crowds, such as Hansa Rostock and Dynamo Dresden. The Wiki on the league is quite detailed and I found it interesting. It was only formed in 2008, before that German football was regionalised at that level (now it's the level below where that starts). The B-team issue was apparently a big deal to resolve. It's a pity the section on finances in the Wiki is mainly pre-Covid, it would be interesting to compare with our league.cafcnick1992 said:The fact that Bundesliga has B teams in its 3rd division has always taken the shine off for me.
I'm surprised they allow that actually given how much value they attach to fan ownership etc0 -
For me, Bundesliga 2 is a superb league. It's incredibly tight at the top and there are so many big games.
Hertha Berlin v Hamburg the other Saturday night drew 71,500 fans.....of which 20,000 were Hamburg fans!
I shall be at Hamburg v Dusseldorf in a few weeks time. That will be a 57,000 sell-out.6 -
I've been to few Dusseldorf home games. Incredible atmosphereSimonsen said:For me, Bundesliga 2 is a superb league. It's incredibly tight at the top and there are so many big games.
Hertha Berlin v Hamburg the other Saturday night drew 71,500 fans.....of which 20,000 were Hamburg fans!
I shall be at Hamburg v Dusseldorf in a few weeks time. That will be a 57,000 sell-out.1 -
Schalke is my German team too.Stuart_the_Red said:
Schalke has an amazing following.PragueAddick said:Rothko said:
The top 3 of 2.Bundersliga are some of Germany's biggest clubs and that's not including Schalke down in 14thorpingtonRED said:Read an article today Europe's Best Race
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/c1km1zpx88jo
Im rooting for Hamburg.When I was 13yrs old I had a penpal Heike from Hamburg.
Ive always followed Hamburg since.
Probably loads that have no idea what a penpal isAs of February 2025, the average attendance for 2. Bundesliga clubs is approximately **36,091** per match for the 2024/25 season. This figure reflects a significant increase from the previous season's average of **29,189**[1][4].### Top Average Attendances- **FC Schalke 04**: 61,650- **Hamburger SV**: 57,000- **Hertha BSC**: 50,970- **Hannover 96**: 35,082Additionally, seven clubs are averaging over **35,000** fans per game, showcasing the league's growing popularity and strong fan engagement[1][2][7].
A couple of years ago I got a ticket through my BiL to Schalke v Dortmund in the Bundesliga. Stood in the Nord Kurve where the hardcore ultras stand. An incredible experience.
Schalke has sold 40.000 season tickets for the 24/25 season in the second division (2.000 more the Bayern Munich). The club itself has 190.400 members.
And yes, Schalke is my second club after The Addicks!I was standing just to the right of where this photo was taken from.
I’ve never been to the Arena AufSchalke, (I intend to at some point) but I did go to a game at the old Parkstadion back in, I think, 1999 or 2000 as my mate had his stag weekend over there and we all decided to take in a local game before getting back on the sauce.
Huge open air terraces and such a noisy atmosphere even with no roof to keep the sound in.
Despite being in March, it snowed really heavily but there were still large groups of shirtless hardcore fans leading the singing.
We were seriously worse for wear from the night before, but our group of about 10 hungover Englishmen were welcomed by the locals like we were minor celebrities and I was told a couple of times that we were part of the club now. (They used a phrase which I can’t remember, but it might have been “Die Knappen” which I since found out is their nickname.)
The bratwurst hotdog outside before the game was fantastic and the bloke in the stadium selling cups of mulled wine out of a barrel on his back was a godsend, warming us up while we knocked off the perpetually returning piles of snow from the tops of our heads and shoulders.
After the match, a bunch of fans we met came to the town we were staying in and joined us for a couple of beers in the evening, then ended up hanging out the whole night and got shitfaced with us. Good lads and great fun.
Marvellous experience.
Oh, and Schalke beat Duisburg 3-0, so that was nice.3 -
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@Stuart_the_Red, @lordromford
do either of you have any insight into why on the field Schalke seem to have settled into a pattern of crapness? It's one thing to be relegated from 1-Bundesliga, that happens to a lot of them, but since Schalke came down (3 seasons ago) they seem to be in 14th place every time I check - and the 62,000 are still turning up for every game.0 -
I went to Kaiserslautern last season and there was over 40k there. One of the best atmospheres, and football experiences I’ve had.I love going to watch football in Germany1
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Very poor transfer business in recent years plus they have a lot of debt which i think i read is close to 200m. First there was Covid then when Russia invaded Ukraine, Schalke had to cut ties with their main sponsor Gazprom which obviously didn't help.PragueAddick said:@Stuart_the_Red, @lordromford
do either of you have any insight into why on the field Schalke seem to have settled into a pattern of crapness? It's one thing to be relegated from 1-Bundesliga, that happens to a lot of them, but since Schalke came down (3 seasons ago) they seem to be in 14th place every time I check - and the 62,000 are still turning up for every game.
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As @Chris_from_Sidcup says, I think the financial situation has buggered then for a while.PragueAddick said:@Stuart_the_Red, @lordromford
do either of you have any insight into why on the field Schalke seem to have settled into a pattern of crapness? It's one thing to be relegated from 1-Bundesliga, that happens to a lot of them, but since Schalke came down (3 seasons ago) they seem to be in 14th place every time I check - and the 62,000 are still turning up for every game.0 -
Mainz should be everyone’s German team. Play in red and white and formed in 1905 - sorted.3
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For anyone looking for a Bundesliga fix in a pub, the Old Red Lion near Angel tube station shows all St Pauli matches.0
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St Pauli are the Crystal Palace of German Football. They can go bust.InspectorSands said:For anyone looking for a Bundesliga fix in a pub, the Old Red Lion near Angel tube station shows all St Pauli matches.2 -
St Pauli's kit is light and dark brown quarters nearly as hideous as blue and red stripes.0
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WTF?cafcnick1992 said:
St Pauli are the Crystal Palace of German Football. They can go bust.InspectorSands said:For anyone looking for a Bundesliga fix in a pub, the Old Red Lion near Angel tube station shows all St Pauli matches.0 -
Yeah that's a horrible kit, and this comes from someone who quite likes the famous Coventry brown kit everyone else hates.iaitch said:St Pauli's kit is light and dark brown quarters nearly as hideous as blue and red stripes.1
