Murray saying that the directors with deferred loans are willing to be accommodating, suggests they might be happy to roll it over again therefore reducing the price.
If this is the case am i right in saying that RD will sell everything he owns in Charlton ,The Valley and Training ground and will have no more control over Charlton.
No reason to suppose that I'm afraid, even if likely.
Thank you for the update. I have respect for Murray for his past involvement and believe he is genuine Charlton. My issue is, if he can talk to Roland now and he listens, what has been going on for the last three years. Why was Murray not talking to him then.
Listens and ignores and don't forget RM had cancer and was also non executive, ie not involved in the day to day running of the club.
Few things I don’t quite understand off the back of this very useful meeting.
We are led to believe that Duchâtelet is asking a ridiculous amount for the club in excess of £50 million and yet it would seem DD has taken place several times once RD is satisfied that a figure is acceptable to him at which point Murray does the tour.
I find it hard to believe anyone is coming close with their initial approach in order to get things moving. This implies to me that’s there are two prices. The ridiculous £50 million for the whole kit and kaboodal and a negotiable amount where RD retains some assets.
Given that nobody is going to pay his upper asking price I think we are in for split between football club, The Valley and Sparrows. I just don’t see how anything else stacks up with the information we now have.
Thanks to CARD and the CAST for this & Pico for the write up. I think it inaccurate to say we learnt nothing/very little. Personally, I felt there was a lot of information, even if most of it was confirming the rumours. The rumours could have been way off the mark.
I still can't see a sale before the end of January, because even if a sale had been agreed, it still needs ratifying by the EFL. So the only way it could happen, would be if a sale has already been agreed.
As others say, the unknown issues are what is the asking price at present and does RD have any intention to retain The Valley/Sparrows Lane and or have Charlton contending with ongoing debt to him ?
The way I read it, that DD wouldn’t take place if the asking price wasn’t within the potential buyers parameters along with any other requirements being made by the duche.
So the fact that it is/has taken place, surely suggests the potential buyers are happy with that or that at least there’s some leeway/bargaining potential?
The way I read it, that DD wouldn’t take place if the asking price wasn’t within the potential buyers parameters along with any other requirements being made by the duche.
So the fact that it is/has taken place, surely suggests the potential buyers are happy with that or that at least there’s some leeway/bargaining potential?
I suppose it is possible that a price is agreed in a range, and then DD is bringing up an issue(s) that vastly reduces the offer?
or
Roly then adds in a bit like “oh, and by the way I still want to own the ground”.
I'd be happy to provide responses to points raised by posters here. I think the best way to do that would be to wait for a while and then to do a summary response to try to pick up everything in one go. So maybe this evening or tomorrow morning.
I know there will always be an element who are never happy, will never again trust RM, play the part of w.u.m, but even the most ardent and resentful has to admit that RM had useful detail to impart and there is no hint of doublespeak or the stinking chicanery that has characterised roly's toxic tenure. The summary on the OS has a gold plated faux pas -"... and Roland in his imitable way has been supportive..." I'd guess the scribe was struggling for inimitable, not that that really makes any sense either, huh?. The chief reservation we can all reasonably hang on to is roly's winning combination of insincerity, volatility and fcuk all knowledge or interest in football. Wittingly or otherwise roly's utter ignorance will provide a stumbling block when Konsa's departure takes place, there is no chance whatsoever he'll appreciate how that will diminish the club's value.
Yes, interesting comments. Murray predicting a sale in February was more than I expected - also there is a suggestion that there will be no further fire sale. of course the opportunity to strengthen our hand for a promotion push seems to have been lost, but if Murray is being honest, we shouldn't be weakened further. The next week or so will show us how reliable he is.
Few things I don’t quite understand off the back of this very useful meeting.
We are led to believe that Duchâtelet is asking a ridiculous amount for the club in excess of £50 million and yet it would seem DD has taken place several times once RD is satisfied that a figure is acceptable to him at which point Murray does the tour.
I find it hard to believe anyone is coming close with their initial approach in order to get things moving. This implies to me that’s there are two prices. The ridiculous £50 million for the whole kit and kaboodal and a negotiable amount where RD retains some assets.
Given that nobody is going to pay his upper asking price I think we are in for split between football club, The Valley and Sparrows. I just don’t see how anything else stacks up with the information we now have.
I don't doubt the belgian arsewipe will entertain offers just for the football club, where he retains some level of ownership in the real estate. The lunacy of his valuation is still critical here though. It is only the real estate that has any significant financial value. A 3rd division football club, conservatively losing £7M p.a. patently only has "potential", financially it's worth less than nothing, cos all the football club brings is losses. The Present Value of relentless cash outflows can only ever be negative. 4 years ago in The Championship the club was worth £14 -18M depending on which source you choose. The club has been relegated, football revenues have been decimated. The regime has invested about £1M in the pitch and some money (to limited obvious effect) at the training ground. Has that investment multiplied the real estate value by 3 times? Have commercial property values grown 300% in 4 years? Have they balls!! If roly doesn't sell the grounds, he has naff all to sell, he'd have to pay a mug to take it off his hands. IF the next regime doesn't acquire the whole shooting match, lock, stock, barrel, training ground, stadium, etc, etc they will need to be laughed out of town, vilified and mocked and protests should recommence immediately. Obviously such a moron would have no problem with the 'fit & proper person' test cos that's not fit for purpose and administered by a risible self-serving bunch of utter tuckfards. Fingers crossed that the next owner is 100 times better equipped than roly and the spivs. Neither rabble knew fuck all that was useful and only the latter had any money, which he's chosen not to spend on much that's been worthwhile.
RM indicates that 2 loan signings will be joining this week, bringing our compliment up to 5. More loans can be signed but, of course, only 5 can be included in the match day squad.
It seems to me that RM was saying that there will be no chance of permanent signings unless Konsa is sold. And if that was to be the case, you can bet on the likelihood of it being a free transfer, specifically to replace Konsa.
Few things I don’t quite understand off the back of this very useful meeting.
We are led to believe that Duchâtelet is asking a ridiculous amount for the club in excess of £50 million and yet it would seem DD has taken place several times once RD is satisfied that a figure is acceptable to him at which point Murray does the tour.
I find it hard to believe anyone is coming close with their initial approach in order to get things moving. This implies to me that’s there are two prices. The ridiculous £50 million for the whole kit and kaboodal and a negotiable amount where RD retains some assets.
Given that nobody is going to pay his upper asking price I think we are in for split between football club, The Valley and Sparrows. I just don’t see how anything else stacks up with the information we now have.
Frankly, I find the whole money business absolutely staggering and more than a little unpalatable. Just how did we get ourselves in a position where a failing medium-sized football club could possibly be valued so highly? Duchâtelet spent £14m and has since devalued the club significantly. Logically, it should be worth less now than when he bought it. As I see it, the only factor that could push the price up is the over-inflationary status of Premier League TV rights, but we are two promotions away from that. Even if we could reach the promised land, what would it take to maintain that status? It is years away, at best.
I don't go along with SHG's argument above. to me £20m is the absolute max that the club would be worth. And that is for absolutely everything. If you start taking bits of real estate out of the sales equation, start charging rents, debts, interest or other tithes to the ex-lord of the manor then you devalue the club further, meaning that the starting price should be lower still. I can't see that £50m or anything like it is anything more than a grubby little chancer pissing in the wind. I hope that any would-be buyers are more sensible than to entertain such extortionate costs and together give him a bloody good kicking (that's a financial kicking, if you're reading Mr Plod).
Thanks to CARD and the CAST for this & Pico for the write up. I think it inaccurate to say we learnt nothing/very little. Personally, I felt there was a lot of information, even if most of it was confirming the rumours. The rumours could have been way off the mark.
I still can't see a sale before the end of January, because even if a sale had been agreed, it still needs ratifying by the EFL. So the only way it could happen, would be if a sale has already been agreed.
As others say, the unknown issues are what is the asking price at present and does RD have any intention to retain The Valley/Sparrows Lane and or have Charlton contending with ongoing debt to him ?
This frighteningly could be true but I’m going to choose to disbelieve it for the sake of my own sanity, if nothing else!
1. Yes, we did ask the question of was there any possibility of Roland having such an overinflated price intention that no deal could be done. This is what led to RM saying that he was sure that the club would be sold "by the summer as Roland would not want to go into another season with further losses accruing and crowds dwindling". To my mind this was a skilful answer which avoided saying that Roland would adjust his price down if buyers wouldn't match it. As RD's sales rep in SE7, this would be a bit of an own goal.
2. We didn't push on the number of potential buyers who had done DD. Getting a more precise number didn't seem a priority.
3. The issue of how buyers would pay. An oversight on my part to leave this out of my summary so good that Tom Rubashow included it in his. I understood this to be about staged payments or payments contingent on promotion to PL.
4. We didn't ask about a split sale with RD retaining some sort of asset ownership. Perhaps we should have but RM had already stated that he wasn't party to negotiations. At that point in the meeting we had spent quite a long time on the sale process and I was keen to get on to the issue of player sales/ transfer window /asset stripping.
5. The issue of how much RM can influence RD is a fascinating one and I thought it was important to find out what he thought. He didn't rule out the possibility of persuading him to reverse his position on permanent transfers - in fact he said he thought he had a good chance of doing so. This obviously raises the issue of how much success he had or didn't have in the past. For example, did he try to dissuade RD from appointing Karel Fraeye ? But that sort of stuff is for another meeting and I expect that RM will have plenty of Roland anecdotes to offer once the sale has gone through. Then people can debate whether they believe them or not !
I stand to be corrected but didn't RM embrace the appointment of Fraeye at the time? Something along the lines of RD needed somebody in charge he could trust? In which case RM wouldn't have attempted to dissuade RD from appointing Fraeye.
If any question should be directed towards RM in regards to his influence over RD then the question should be aimed at whether RM attempted to persuade RD to sanction signing Carruthers as alleged as part of the Holmes deal?
I stand to be corrected but didn't RM embrace the appointment of Fraeye at the time? Something along the lines of RD needed somebody in charge he could trust? In which case RM wouldn't have attempted to dissuade RD from appointing Fraeye.
If any question should be directed towards RM in regards to his influence over RD then the question should be aimed at whether RM attempted to persuade RD to sanction signing Carruthers as alleged as part of the Holmes deal?
Murray apparently compared Fraeye taking over to when Curbishley was given the manager's job.
I stand to be corrected but didn't RM embrace the appointment of Fraeye at the time? Something along the lines of RD needed somebody in charge he could trust? In which case RM wouldn't have attempted to dissuade RD from appointing Fraeye.
If any question should be directed towards RM in regards to his influence over RD then the question should be aimed at whether RM attempted to persuade RD to sanction signing Carruthers as alleged as part of the Holmes deal?
Comments
We are led to believe that Duchâtelet is asking a ridiculous amount for the club in excess of £50 million and yet it would seem DD has taken place several times once RD is satisfied that a figure is acceptable to him at which point Murray does the tour.
I find it hard to believe anyone is coming close with their initial approach in order to get things moving. This implies to me that’s there are two prices. The ridiculous £50 million for the whole kit and kaboodal and a negotiable amount where RD retains some assets.
Given that nobody is going to pay his upper asking price I think we are in for split between football club, The Valley and Sparrows. I just don’t see how anything else stacks up with the information we now have.
says it all for me.
I think it inaccurate to say we learnt nothing/very little.
Personally, I felt there was a lot of information, even if most of it was confirming the rumours.
The rumours could have been way off the mark.
I still can't see a sale before the end of January, because even if a sale had been agreed, it still needs ratifying by the EFL.
So the only way it could happen, would be if a sale has already been agreed.
As others say, the unknown issues are what is the asking price at present and does RD have any intention to retain The Valley/Sparrows Lane and or have Charlton contending with ongoing debt to him ?
So the fact that it is/has taken place, surely suggests the potential buyers are happy with that or that at least there’s some leeway/bargaining potential?
Suggests that they are realistic as to how long it might take.
Still amazed that two DDs took place since 22 December when Doucher promised us "nothing is happening"
So was Murray fibbing then or now ?
or
Roly then adds in a bit like “oh, and by the way I still want to own the ground”.
The summary on the OS has a gold plated faux pas -"... and Roland in his imitable way has been supportive..."
I'd guess the scribe was struggling for inimitable, not that that really makes any sense either, huh?.
The chief reservation we can all reasonably hang on to is roly's winning combination of insincerity, volatility and fcuk all knowledge or interest in football. Wittingly or otherwise roly's utter ignorance will provide a stumbling block when Konsa's departure takes place, there is no chance whatsoever he'll appreciate how that will diminish the club's value.
4 years ago in The Championship the club was worth £14 -18M depending on which source you choose. The club has been relegated, football revenues have been decimated. The regime has invested about £1M in the pitch and some money (to limited obvious effect) at the training ground. Has that investment multiplied the real estate value by 3 times? Have commercial property values grown 300% in 4 years? Have they balls!!
If roly doesn't sell the grounds, he has naff all to sell, he'd have to pay a mug to take it off his hands.
IF the next regime doesn't acquire the whole shooting match, lock, stock, barrel, training ground, stadium, etc, etc they will need to be laughed out of town, vilified and mocked and protests should recommence immediately. Obviously such a moron would have no problem with the 'fit & proper person' test cos that's not fit for purpose and administered by a risible self-serving bunch of utter tuckfards.
Fingers crossed that the next owner is 100 times better equipped than roly and the spivs. Neither rabble knew fuck all that was useful and only the latter had any money, which he's chosen not to spend on much that's been worthwhile.
Robinson has said he's not allowed to make permanent signings.
Only a loan signing in since.
Does anyone really think Duchatelet is going to make permanent signings this month?
More loans can be signed but, of course, only 5 can be included in the match day squad.
It seems to me that RM was saying that there will be no chance of permanent signings unless Konsa is sold.
And if that was to be the case, you can bet on the likelihood of it being a free transfer, specifically to replace Konsa.
I don't go along with SHG's argument above. to me £20m is the absolute max that the club would be worth. And that is for absolutely everything. If you start taking bits of real estate out of the sales equation, start charging rents, debts, interest or other tithes to the ex-lord of the manor then you devalue the club further, meaning that the starting price should be lower still. I can't see that £50m or anything like it is anything more than a grubby little chancer pissing in the wind. I hope that any would-be buyers are more sensible than to entertain such extortionate costs and together give him a bloody good kicking (that's a financial kicking, if you're reading Mr Plod).
And that would depend on what a buyer might think he would get out of owning it. Which is either:
1. Prestige and/or fun
2. A profit
And 2. would depend on the club being promoted to the Premier League I believe.
1. Yes, we did ask the question of was there any possibility of Roland having such an overinflated price intention that no deal could be done. This is what led to RM saying that he was sure that the club would be sold "by the summer as Roland would not want to go into another season with further losses accruing and crowds dwindling". To my mind this was a skilful answer which avoided saying that Roland would adjust his price down if buyers wouldn't match it. As RD's sales rep in SE7, this would be a bit of an own goal.
2. We didn't push on the number of potential buyers who had done DD. Getting a more precise number didn't seem a priority.
3. The issue of how buyers would pay. An oversight on my part to leave this out of my summary so good that Tom Rubashow included it in his. I understood this to be about staged payments or payments contingent on promotion to PL.
4. We didn't ask about a split sale with RD retaining some sort of asset ownership. Perhaps we should have but RM had already stated that he wasn't party to negotiations. At that point in the meeting we had spent quite a long time on the sale process and I was keen to get on to the issue of player sales/ transfer window /asset stripping.
5. The issue of how much RM can influence RD is a fascinating one and I thought it was important to find out what he thought. He didn't rule out the possibility of persuading him to reverse his position on permanent transfers - in fact he said he thought he had a good chance of doing so. This obviously raises the issue of how much success he had or didn't have in the past. For example, did he try to dissuade RD from appointing Karel Fraeye ? But that sort of stuff is for another meeting and I expect that RM will have plenty of Roland anecdotes to offer once the sale has gone through. Then people can debate whether they believe them or not !
If any question should be directed towards RM in regards to his influence over RD then the question should be aimed at whether RM attempted to persuade RD to sanction signing Carruthers as alleged as part of the Holmes deal?