When you look at the indian averages, their batting has also been poor. Rahane only averages 27, Dhawan 26 and Rahul 14. Until Pujara found form they were virtually a one man batting lineup
Don't want to be a killjoy but this victory does paper over the cracks of our Test team. If we had three proper Test batsmen at 1,2 and 3 we'd be unbelievable. Now I'm not saying we need to have a Gooch, a Strauss and a Cook at their best, but one World Class and two good Test level players like a Mark Butcher or an Atherton. We are certainly blessed with middle to late order batsmen/all-rounders and they have got us through this series. Maybe young Curren could be persuaded to concentrate on top order batting and lay off the bowling? Bit harsh of course, it happened to many like Bob Woolmer but you cannot have a Test team of all-rounders. Looks like Root has got his way to go back to 4. Bairstow has shown (on purpose?) that he shouldn't bat higher than 6. We want the likes of him, Stokes, Ali, Buttler, Woakes and Curren coming in at 300-4, 350-5 etc and not at 100-4. You really could say our batting is all at 6's and 7's!
Don't want to be a killjoy but this victory does paper over the cracks of our Test team. If we had three proper Test batsmen at 1,2 and 3 we'd be unbelievable. Now I'm not saying we need to have a Gooch, a Strauss and a Cook at their best, but one World Class and two good Test level players like a Mark Butcher or an Atherton. We are certainly blessed with middle to late order batsmen/all-rounders and they have got us through this series. Maybe young Curren could be persuaded to concentrate on top order batting and lay off the bowling? Bit harsh of course, it happened to many like Bob Woolmer but you cannot have a Test team of all-rounders. Looks like Root has got his way to go back to 4. Bairstow has shown (on purpose?) that he shouldn't bat higher than 6. We want the likes of him, Stokes, Ali, Buttler, Woakes and Curren coming in at 300-4, 350-5 etc and not at 100-4. You really could say our batting is all at 6's and 7's!
I look at Curren and think of the likes of Steve Smith, who started as a leggie bowler who batted, and Steve Waugh who was a mediocre all rounder when he started. If he could become a proper batsman who could bowl as a 5th or 6th bowler, that would really solve a problem
I think it's tough opening at the moment, you look around the world and few of the best players (other than perhaps Warner) are opening
Don't want to be a killjoy but this victory does paper over the cracks of our Test team. If we had three proper Test batsmen at 1,2 and 3 we'd be unbelievable. Now I'm not saying we need to have a Gooch, a Strauss and a Cook at their best, but one World Class and two good Test level players like a Mark Butcher or an Atherton. We are certainly blessed with middle to late order batsmen/all-rounders and they have got us through this series. Maybe young Curren could be persuaded to concentrate on top order batting and lay off the bowling? Bit harsh of course, it happened to many like Bob Woolmer but you cannot have a Test team of all-rounders. Looks like Root has got his way to go back to 4. Bairstow has shown (on purpose?) that he shouldn't bat higher than 6. We want the likes of him, Stokes, Ali, Buttler, Woakes and Curren coming in at 300-4, 350-5 etc and not at 100-4. You really could say our batting is all at 6's and 7's!
Do we need to paper over the cracks, or are we three players short of being "unbelievable"? I don't think both of these can be true.
Curran should "lay off the bowling"? That's interesting*. His Test bowling average is 23. Who should bowl his overs? Stokes (average 33.1)? Moeen (39.04)? Broad (28.84)? Anderson (26.9)? Adil Rashid (41.17)? Why would anyone suggest that one of England's most successful players this summer be asked to stop bowling? We've played six Tests this summer. We've won the four he's bowled in; and lost the others - why on earth would the reaction to this be to prevent his from bowling? England selectors have made some daft decisions over the years, but I don't think they'll do anything that ridiculous.
Bairstow, Stokes, Ali, Buttler, Woakes and Curran coming in at 4 or 5 down? That's eleven or twelve players, before the non-batting bowlers, like Broad and Anderson. I have disagreed with a lot of this post, but I am prepared to admit we would probably win more than we lost with a 13-man team.
Trouble with Curran is he offers something different by being a very good left armer. We nearly did the same with Root because he is capable of getting a ball turning.
Curran and his all round cricket have impressed me, no need to push him one way or the other yet. It's a tough, flinty opener we need, Anderson and Broad won't go on forever and if we want to win test matches we have to be able to take 20 wickets. Curran can continue scoring runs and taking wickets, one of the others need to be more worried about their place in the team before him
We now have a dead rubber and an ideal chance to experiment.
Jennings should be dropped - he's had enough chances. As much as I like Rashid, it's obvious that Root doesn't so there's no point playing him. We can bring back Woakes, if fit, for a rested Anderson.
Burns deserves a chance. Pope should come back in but at 6. Let Buttler keep the gloves and ask Bairstow if he would like a chance to open. Finally I like the idea of moving Cook to 3. It would be a new challenge for him which might be what he needs because he really isn't doing it any more at the top of the order.
If that top 3 fails then so what? It's only the same place we've been in time and time again and with the 4-10 below we still have enough to perform the usual rescue job:
We now have a dead rubber and an ideal chance to experiment.
Jennings should be dropped - he's had enough chances. As much as I like Rashid, it's obvious that Root doesn't so there's no point playing him. We can bring back Woakes, if fit, for a rested Anderson.
Burns deserves a chance. Pope should come back in but at 6. Let Buttler keep the gloves and ask Bairstow if he would like a chance to open. Finally I like the idea of moving Cook to 3. It would be a new challenge for him which might be what he needs because he really isn't doing it any more at the top of the order.
If that top 3 fails then so what? It's only the same place we've been in time and time again and with the 4-10 below we still have enough to perform the usual rescue job:
Alec Stewart has always said that Curran would end up batting at 4. He also reckons Tom will end up batting 6.
I feel with Sam that because he is left arm he will always be pushed to bowl but he has the potential to bat in the top 6. Never the right sort of player to bat in the top 3 though.
Alec Stewart has always said that Curran would end up batting at 4. He also reckons Tom will end up batting 6.
I feel with Sam that because he is left arm he will always be pushed to bowl but he has the potential to bat in the top 6. Never the right sort of player to bat in the top 3 though.
We now have a dead rubber and an ideal chance to experiment.
Jennings should be dropped - he's had enough chances. As much as I like Rashid, it's obvious that Root doesn't so there's no point playing him. We can bring back Woakes, if fit, for a rested Anderson.
Burns deserves a chance. Pope should come back in but at 6. Let Buttler keep the gloves and ask Bairstow if he would like a chance to open. Finally I like the idea of moving Cook to 3. It would be a new challenge for him which might be what he needs because he really isn't doing it any more at the top of the order.
If that top 3 fails then so what? It's only the same place we've been in time and time again and with the 4-10 below we still have enough to perform the usual rescue job:
I always thought Bairstow wanted to bat higher, I always thought he was capable of batting higher but apparently he's not interested. He wants to keep and bat 6. A shame.
Burns is the obvious choice to open and we need a right hander at the top for balance. So I would back the experienced Hildreth to work as a stop gap solution for a couple years in the absence of anyone else. It could well be a masterstroke - look what Rogers and Voges did for Aus coming into the side in their late 30s.
In those 2 we have 2 'proper' test openers. Players who know how to build an innings and who will not give their wicker away cheaply. Hopefully with cook in the top 3 we would always have some sort of platform. In Hildreth and root we have experience Burns is still fairly young but has been around long enough to know his game and crucially has captaincy experience.
Root Bairstow Stokes is the backbone of the middle order. A specialist keeper at 7 - for me if the keeper is batting 7 you have to pick the best keeper and that is Foakes by far. The bowlers pick themselves wirh Woakes and Rashid as your next in line. Buttler and Clarke/Gubbins as backup bats.
Alec Stewart has always said that Curran would end up batting at 4. He also reckons Tom will end up batting 6.
I feel with Sam that because he is left arm he will always be pushed to bowl but he has the potential to bat in the top 6. Never the right sort of player to bat in the top 3 though.
Never say never!
Fair enough. But it would require a huge change in approach for him to bat in the top 3 in test or first class cricket. He is an attacking style batsman and in doubt he has the technique to withstand an opening new ball attack or the patience to see off the new ball and build a platform.
This is England's trouble at the moment. We have lots of good looking stroke players but none of the boring grinding out a score type batsmen to set it up for them. And we are obsessed with making those in the first group do the role of the second. Doesn't work.
Think we should probably fix the opening spot at the other end, that has been an issue since Strauss retired, before we start worrying about England's leading Test run scorer.
Think we should probably fix the opening spot at the other end, that has been an issue since Strauss retired, before we start worrying about England's leading Test run scorer.
No, he really needs to go. He looks tired and technically flawed. You don't keep picking people because they have scored the most runs, otherwise Gower would still be playing. We need two new openers sorted by August 1st 2019.
You're all losing the plot, even Canters. Cook at three? Drop Buttler?
Cook Burns Root Bairstow Stokes Buttler Ali Curran Woakes Broad Anderson
There are 2 issues with this team though. One is that Root wants to bat at 4, the other is that Bairstow isn't a number 4.
If they give Jennings one final chance, maybe have Burns at 3, which would mean dropping one of the all rounders, a tough choice. Stokes is clearly injured though, so perhaps he should be rested.
Or someone else will have to bat number 3, e.g. one of the all rounders, maybe even Ben Stokes if they don't stick Moeen there again, especially as Stokes probably should be playing as a batsman only.
Comments
I love all formats of the game but Test cricket is and will always be the best.
When you look at the indian averages, their batting has also been poor. Rahane only averages 27, Dhawan 26 and Rahul 14. Until Pujara found form they were virtually a one man batting lineup
I'm really happy for him today
He never hides and always keeps trying.
Looks like Root has got his way to go back to 4. Bairstow has shown (on purpose?) that he shouldn't bat higher than 6. We want the likes of him, Stokes, Ali, Buttler, Woakes and Curren coming in at 300-4, 350-5 etc and not at 100-4. You really could say our batting is all at 6's and 7's!
I think it's tough opening at the moment, you look around the world and few of the best players (other than perhaps Warner) are opening
Curran should "lay off the bowling"? That's interesting*. His Test bowling average is 23. Who should bowl his overs? Stokes (average 33.1)? Moeen (39.04)? Broad (28.84)? Anderson (26.9)? Adil Rashid (41.17)? Why would anyone suggest that one of England's most successful players this summer be asked to stop bowling? We've played six Tests this summer. We've won the four he's bowled in; and lost the others - why on earth would the reaction to this be to prevent his from bowling? England selectors have made some daft decisions over the years, but I don't think they'll do anything that ridiculous.
Bairstow, Stokes, Ali, Buttler, Woakes and Curran coming in at 4 or 5 down? That's eleven or twelve players, before the non-batting bowlers, like Broad and Anderson. I have disagreed with a lot of this post, but I am prepared to admit we would probably win more than we lost with a 13-man team.
*bonkers
Curran and his all round cricket have impressed me, no need to push him one way or the other yet. It's a tough, flinty opener we need, Anderson and Broad won't go on forever and if we want to win test matches we have to be able to take 20 wickets. Curran can continue scoring runs and taking wickets, one of the others need to be more worried about their place in the team before him
Jennings should be dropped - he's had enough chances. As much as I like Rashid, it's obvious that Root doesn't so there's no point playing him. We can bring back Woakes, if fit, for a rested Anderson.
Burns deserves a chance. Pope should come back in but at 6. Let Buttler keep the gloves and ask Bairstow if he would like a chance to open. Finally I like the idea of moving Cook to 3. It would be a new challenge for him which might be what he needs because he really isn't doing it any more at the top of the order.
If that top 3 fails then so what? It's only the same place we've been in time and time again and with the 4-10 below we still have enough to perform the usual rescue job:
Bairstow
Burns
Cook
Root
Stokes
Pope
Buttler
Moeen
Curran
Woakes
Broad
:-)
I feel with Sam that because he is left arm he will always be pushed to bowl but he has the potential to bat in the top 6. Never the right sort of player to bat in the top 3 though.
Burns is the obvious choice to open and we need a right hander at the top for balance. So I would back the experienced Hildreth to work as a stop gap solution for a couple years in the absence of anyone else. It could well be a masterstroke - look what Rogers and Voges did for Aus coming into the side in their late 30s.
In those 2 we have 2 'proper' test openers. Players who know how to build an innings and who will not give their wicker away cheaply. Hopefully with cook in the top 3 we would always have some sort of platform. In Hildreth and root we have experience Burns is still fairly young but has been around long enough to know his game and crucially has captaincy experience.
Root Bairstow Stokes is the backbone of the middle order. A specialist keeper at 7 - for me if the keeper is batting 7 you have to pick the best keeper and that is Foakes by far. The bowlers pick themselves wirh Woakes and Rashid as your next in line. Buttler and Clarke/Gubbins as backup bats.
Burns
Hildreth
Cook
Root
Bairstow
Stokes
Foakes
Moeen
Curran
Broad
Anderson
This is England's trouble at the moment. We have lots of good looking stroke players but none of the boring grinding out a score type batsmen to set it up for them. And we are obsessed with making those in the first group do the role of the second. Doesn't work.
Cook
Burns
Root
Bairstow
Stokes
Buttler
Ali
Curran
Woakes
Broad
Anderson
If they give Jennings one final chance, maybe have Burns at 3, which would mean dropping one of the all rounders, a tough choice. Stokes is clearly injured though, so perhaps he should be rested.
Or someone else will have to bat number 3, e.g. one of the all rounders, maybe even Ben Stokes if they don't stick Moeen there again, especially as Stokes probably should be playing as a batsman only.