In a sense I’m not surprised by Taylor’s stance given all the circumstances. I’m just amazed that someone who puts himself out there as a savvy individual is stupid enough to be so open about it given the reputational damage that will ensue. It would not have made it any more right (in fact it would have made the deceit worse) had he just quietly got on with it but developed a migraine/bad back or something on match day to prevent him playing. We’d all have had our suspicions but he could have peddled the “desperate to play line” for those gullible enough to want to hear it. Clearly he either thinks he’s untouchable or he’s more stupid than I previously gave him credit for. Did he really think that being “honest” about it would have made us all say “fair enough mate, best of luck to you”? Nah. He’s getting the roasting he deserves I’m afraid. A sour ending given all the pleasure he brought. Your average nurse is worth a thousand Lyle Taylors.
In a sense I’m not surprised by Taylor’s stance given all the circumstances. I’m just amazed that someone who puts himself out there as a savvy individual is stupid enough to be so open about it given the reputational damage that will ensue. It would not have made it any more right (in fact it would have made the deceit worse) had he just quietly got on with it but developed a migraine/bad back or something on match day to prevent him playing. We’d all have had our suspicions but he could have peddled the “desperate to play line” for those gullible enough to want to hear it. Clearly he either thinks he’s untouchable or he’s more stupid than I previously gave him credit for. Did he really think that being “honest” about it would have made us all say “fair enough mate, best of luck to you”? Nah. He’s getting the roasting he deserves I’m afraid. A sour ending given all the pleasure he brought. Your average nurse is worth a thousand Lyle Taylors.
He might well have wanted to put a different spin on it, but it was Bowyer who went public with why he didnt want to play. Memo to Lyle.......dont piss LB off.
Lyle Taylor was happy to still pick up his wages while this pandemic has been going on.He didn't say anything then. Fans detest players like this taking their club for a easy living and giving nothing back.
And for the months he was injured as a result of playing for another team. Paid and looked after.
Doesn’t the international team pick up the tab for wages if a player is injured whilst on international duty?
No. If a national team is in the final stages of an international tournament they have an obligation to compensate the club. Otherwise the doctors attached to the national team have an obligation to submit the results of their own examinations to assist the club in treating the injury but they don't have to pay any compensation to the club. So if a player decides to play for a minor national side (no disrespect) like Montserrat there is almost no chance they will get past the initial stages of any tournament they are in, so no risk of having to pay compensation.
I also think we need to put "International Team" into perspective
"On June 30, 2002, the day of the 2002 World Cup Final, Montserrat, then the lowest ranked team in the world, played against the second lowest team, Bhutan, in a friendly match known jokingly as "The Other Final", but lost 4–0.
There are two other things that might be at the back of Taylor's mind - one whether he has a chronic injury that doesn't prevent him from playing but that he might aggravate and two the fact that a player is most vulnerable during a period of inactivity as is the case now.
Still not excuses for not fulfilling his contract. But reasons nevertheless.
Bloody obvious I would have thought. And when is next season anyway....? We haven't even re-started this one yet.
Lyle old son, you might be sitting on your arse for a few more months. Not as if you can go out shopping or for meals out. Oh, I forgot.......car showrooms opened up on Monday.
Bloody obvious I would have thought. And when is next season anyway....? We haven't even re-started this one yet.
Lyle old son, you might be sitting on your arse for a few more months. Not as if you can go out shopping or for meals out. Oh, I forgot.......car showrooms opened up on Monday.
Yeah to me and you, the decisions the Governing Bodies though I wouldnt have been surprised had he been allowed to face us had he joined Brentford etc.
As for next season I wont be surprised if the EFL havent even thought about it
We should be getting the new fixtures for next season in the next few weeks so be curious to see when that'll be pushed back to
Bloody obvious I would have thought. And when is next season anyway....? We haven't even re-started this one yet.
Lyle old son, you might be sitting on your arse for a few more months. Not as if you can go out shopping or for meals out. Oh, I forgot.......car showrooms opened up on Monday.
Yeah to me and you, the decisions the Governing Bodies though I wouldnt have been surprised had he been allowed to face us had he joined Brentford etc.
As for next season I wont be surprised if the EFL havent even thought about it
We should be getting the new fixtures for next season in the next few weeks so be curious to see when that'll be pushed back to
Fixtures cannot come out until this season is completed - whether that's to completion, voided, or snapshot of the then league tables. Until then, nobody knows what the make-up of the leagues will be!
If we manage to finish the Premier League and the Championship by the end of July then I expect next season to commence late August/early September. In that case the fixtures will be out mid-August.
I didn't want to react too soon, so I've been mulling it over, and ....
.... I can say I'm bitterly disappointed. To think that a player so important to the club should make such a decision at such a moment in such difficult circumstances is unheard of. He likes to be different - well, he's made that clearer than ever.
When he became an Addick his record was that of a journeyman - a respectable career but nothing more exciting. Without question we made him a better player, and he thrived. And in return for the goals - and the attitude, the sheer presence - he gave us we gave him adulation.
When he was injured playing for his hobby-country it was just accepted because he was so much in credit, and of course he continued to be paid, as per his contract. For the team this season has not been a classic but it has been characterised by an unflagging spirit. Until now. At this moment of daunting challenge, when all Addicks and all opponents alike were looking to our sharpshooter, our irrepressible force of nature, our talisman, he turned out to have not a lion's heart but the heart of a mouse.
The approaching end of a contract normally spurs the player on to redouble his efforts, to showcase his talents and his commitment. For LT9 to bench himself is unforgivable. And unprecedented.
And one more thing. He has the status of a Championship player, won at Wembley. On that epic day there were in fact several players playing their last game for the Addicks - would our special guy have still got his medal if any single one of them had decided to hold back on the day? I don't think so - it was the TEAM that prevailed, the same team that he is now abandoning.
No way would say Brentford have told him not to play for the rest of the season, especially as we are due to play them. That would be considered a massive breach of the rules.
Football operates separately from normal life, it's not like a normal job where in your last few weeks you hand over your responsibilities, tidy your desk and go for long lunch breaks, as the last game in your contract is potentially just as important as your 1st or 34th. Clubs aren't stupid, if we were relegated with 2 games to go, I'm sure Bowyer would be happy to leave Taylor out.
The integrity of the league season relies on it, and it's this structure which generates massive public interest and makes lots of players very rich. If the FA AND PFA had any sense of morals, they would instruct its members to play the full season, and for clubs to extend all contracts until the season is ended. These are extraordinary times, and everyone has to show solidarity to the wider game.
They would have indicated a preference for him not getting injured with a clear implication that he shouldn't play for us. Informal and off the record. Taylor will know where he is going and how much he is going to be getting. He is not going to say anything that will undermine his new club.
But this goes on in football all the time. Clubs are always telling young players they can't play for their schools or clubs anymore. It is the culture of clubs and ridiculous to think is these strange times with the season extended into the summer that this isn't what is happening here.
I'm sorry but I don't believe clubs would even hint at that. Where would it end, West Ham tapping up a few Watford players to not play or "go sick" to help them stay up? Leeds offering Dillon Phillips a big contract and suggesting he should maybe let one in when we play them...
Yes players may not give "110%" in their remaining games, but the integrity of the sport relies on players giving their best, whoever they are against, the famous Law goal that relegated United being a prime example.
Not had the passion to read this all in full. So my take on this. 1. He has a very short lived career that has to be about him not any club. 2. He has made it clear he has been f'ed about by the last two owners of cafc, see point one. 3. He has already had a major injury this season playing for his country (something we dreamed off, the playing obviously) see point one. 4. He absolutely should protect himself point three. Given point one, why put any of that ar risk given point two for cafc in the knowledge that we all have now. Lyle thank you for your service now go and get what you are worth. Passion aside let's be honest he deserves so much better, as do all the staff playing and none, very few have the opportunity to really go for it. Let's praise it when one of does
Nobody has said they have issue with him not playing the games post June, however he is contracted up to and including 30th June and therefore should be fit, trained and ready to play any games until the 1st July.
That is his contractual obligation to continue to work for the club up until 1st July.
If not he should be immediately terminated.
The same goes for Solly.
Having want-away players, refusing to play in and around the squad is going to be dangerous for morale. It could make other players make similar decisions and they would all be rats leaving a sinking ship.
We need players and management staff to be willing to fight to keep us up.
I'm sort of over Lyle not playing now and I'm looking to the other players we have and hoping that if they can stay fit we'll have enough about us to stay up. We managed to do alright for months without Lyle until our injuries bit, so I think we can do the same with a bit of luck.
Beyond that though, I'm finding the situation itself fascinating. Firstly, the fallout from this is growing and I bet he doesn't like that. I wonder if he thought he'd be one of many who would announce they didn't fancy it because they had new deals lined up? It's bizarre that this situation is localised to Charlton, and it's also particularly unpleasant for him because he's the star player in a team staring at relegation. If it had just been Solly I don't think it would have got further than a quick mention on this forum and that's it. I'd we'd been securely midtable as well I don't think anyone would be that bothered either. I doubt Bowyer would have felt obliged to go on TalkSport to chat about it. It's unfortunate for Lyle; to the wider world who are aware of him he's known as the lower league player who spoke on racism so well recently. He was intelligent, calm and eloquent in a way most footballers aren't when he spoke on a difficult topic and he came across brilliantly. Now with the media interest ramping up it looks like he's going to be known as the player who went on strike during coronavirus and possibly got his team relegated. I wonder how the fans of his new club will feel knowing that they've signed a bloke who is best known for refusing to play football when there's money on the table? It doesn't make him hugely different to any other player with respect to the money, but doing it during the pandemic does put him on unique and unpleasant footing.
It's also just an interesting character study of the man. Lyle is not simple to define. It's easy to call him complex, but I think it's mostly that he isn't that nice a man. I think he's intelligent and knows exactly what to say in certain situations, but he's also arrogant and sometimes chooses to do things that he knows will aggravate people because as far as he's concerned if it works for him then who cares about the fallout? You could arguably have seen this coming from his social media behaviour. He claps the fans like every good footballer 'should', he says the right things about the club, the fans and the players in interviews, he bleeds for the cause on the pitch, he's a model club man. Except he's banned every couple of months because as much as he works for the team, he'll be damned if he's not going to get his bit of personal aggro in as well, and that's always worth a booking. Sure, fine, it's his edge, he wouldn't be as effective without it. Then he goes home and gets on Twitter, and decides he's going to start Tweeting about politics. Not in a considered way, he's going to write something knowingly controversial, then he's going to write some trollish responses to individuals who are clearly Charlton fans, and then a day or so later he'll stir the same thing up again with a post designed to annoy people. A few days after that he'll make a joke about it just so it's fresh in your mind. He'll then remove himself from social media for a bit - cue drama - and then pop up again doing the same thing. Or he'll like a post on Instagram insulting Roland or Southall, or related to a bit of transfer gossip. Then he'll post some cryptic song lyrics that you can relate to his expiring contract, all getting people riled up.
The point is that Lyle does whatever Lyle wants, and he doesn't really care if that affects anyone else, and he's always been like this. He's run down contracts before, he'll happily piss off Charlton fans if he's bored at home as long as it gives him some amusement and he'll speak his mind at any given moment. He'll also score lots of goals on the pitch. That's who Lyle is, and we know that. This scenario is that Lyle's goals have made him a sought-after commodity and as a result he's walking out, and he doesn't care if it pisses us and anyone else off because this is what works for him and who cares if we don't like it? In a way he kind of reminds me a bit of Southall, which is a comparison I'm sure he'd hate. When Southall came in he said exactly what
you'd want a new owner to say after the Roland years. Said he's just
the caretaker of the club and he's protecting it for the fans who are
the true lifeblood; then he goes and drains the club dry. Lovely stuff.
Just like Lyle said in his recent interviews that it's always the poor fans who suffer when these
terrible owners take over and won't someone think of the fans, and
immediately goes on strike for the end of the season, which he knows
could potentially scupper a takeover deal and lead to the end of the
club. They're not that different; Southall is obviously several thousand degrees worse as a person, but neither is above saying what they know people want to hear and then doing the exact opposite of what is right for those people if it's good for him personally. I think the negative media attention will annoy him and be more than he bargained for, but we're getting the Lyle Taylor we've always had here.
Lyle Taylor was happy to still pick up his wages while this pandemic has been going on.He didn't say anything then. Fans detest players like this taking their club for a easy living and giving nothing back.
And for the months he was injured as a result of playing for another team. Paid and looked after.
Doesn’t the international team pick up the tab for wages if a player is injured whilst on international duty?
No. If a national team is in the final stages of an international tournament they have an obligation to compensate the club. Otherwise the doctors attached to the national team have an obligation to submit the results of their own examinations to assist the club in treating the injury but they don't have to pay any compensation to the club. So if a player decides to play for a minor national side (no disrespect) like Montserrat there is almost no chance they will get past the initial stages of any tournament they are in, so no risk of having to pay compensation.
I also think we need to put "International Team" into perspective
"On June 30, 2002, the day of the 2002 World Cup Final, Montserrat, then the lowest ranked team in the world, played against the second lowest team, Bhutan, in a friendly match known jokingly as "The Other Final", but lost 4–0.
I'm still firmly one of the minority that believes we have not got to the bottom of this story yet. One person who could shed light on it all is Taylor's agent. They of course operate in the shadows, but this one at least has a media profile.
I'm still firmly one of the minority that believes we have not got to the bottom of this story yet. One person who could shed light on it all is Taylor's agent. They of course operate in the shadows, but this one at least has a media profile.
And what about all those Filipino nurses and Asian and Black Doctors that are turning up for work every day.
If you take Jason's argument to its logical extreme players should simply refuse to play in case they get injured. If it's okay for players to bow out of their contracts when it suits them then it will just keep getting worse.
I'm sick to death of the attitude of some footballers and pundits who think they're far more deserving than the rest of society.
I agree but entirely understand how it has come to that.
Grown men chant their names every Saturday for 10 months a year, kids and adults ask for selfies, they're adored on social media, sky subscriptions afford them excessive wages, kids idolise them and this generates huge sponsorship deals.
Many of them, particularly in the highest echelons have been told by clubs, fans, media, their friends and families and agents and all other such leeches on the gravy train that they are amazing from their mid to late teens.
It is understandable that they may develop an ego somewhere between feeling extra special and a messiah complex.
Equally, said players have seen how quickly the fans, press and clubs can turn on them in a run of poor form, injury or mistakes of the kind most young men will make in their transition to maturity and they can be roundly ridiculed bordering on abuse and dropped by sponsorship deals and playing contracts like hot potatoes if it's in the clubs' interests to do so . So I imagine they take a perspective early on that it's a business and this shapes the mindset. Adulation from fans and club hero status is great...but that won't pay the bills and one mistake on the pitch or poor run of form can see the same adoring fans can see it ended.
As sickening as it is the collective we have substantially contributed to this through our obsessive idolisation, adoration and football- related spending and we continue to enable it via the well oiled machine that is current football.
Rio Ferdinand commented on it before about 16 year old trainees in his day cleaning boots each day. Now they turn up with £500 headphones and Louis Vitton washbags. Leaves very little room for humility.
I'm sort of over Lyle not playing now and I'm looking to the other players we have and hoping that if they can stay fit we'll have enough about us to stay up. We managed to do alright for months without Lyle until our injuries bit, so I think we can do the same with a bit of luck.
Beyond that though, I'm finding the situation itself fascinating. Firstly, the fallout from this is growing and I bet he doesn't like that. I wonder if he thought he'd be one of many who would announce they didn't fancy it because they had new deals lined up? It's bizarre that this situation is localised to Charlton, and it's also particularly unpleasant for him because he's the star player in a team staring at relegation. If it had just been Solly I don't think it would have got further than a quick mention on this forum and that's it. I'd we'd been securely midtable as well I don't think anyone would be that bothered either. I doubt Bowyer would have felt obliged to go on TalkSport to chat about it. It's unfortunate for Lyle; to the wider world who are aware of him he's known as the lower league player who spoke on racism so well recently. He was intelligent, calm and eloquent in a way most footballers aren't when he spoke on a difficult topic and he came across brilliantly. Now with the media interest ramping up it looks like he's going to be known as the player who went on strike during coronavirus and possibly got his team relegated. I wonder how the fans of his new club will feel knowing that they've signed a bloke who is best known for refusing to play football when there's money on the table? It doesn't make him hugely different to any other player with respect to the money, but doing it during the pandemic does put him on unique and unpleasant footing.
It's also just an interesting character study of the man. Lyle is not simple to define. It's easy to call him complex, but I think it's mostly that he isn't that nice a man. I think he's intelligent and knows exactly what to say in certain situations, but he's also arrogant and sometimes chooses to do things that he knows will aggravate people because as far as he's concerned if it works for him then who cares about the fallout? You could arguably have seen this coming from his social media behaviour. He claps the fans like every good footballer 'should', he says the right things about the club, the fans and the players in interviews, he bleeds for the cause on the pitch, he's a model club man. Except he's banned every couple of months because as much as he works for the team, he'll be damned if he's not going to get his bit of personal aggro in as well, and that's always worth a booking. Sure, fine, it's his edge, he wouldn't be as effective without it. Then he goes home and gets on Twitter, and decides he's going to start Tweeting about politics. Not in a considered way, he's going to write something knowingly controversial, then he's going to write some trollish responses to individuals who are clearly Charlton fans, and then a day or so later he'll stir the same thing up again with a post designed to annoy people. A few days after that he'll make a joke about it just so it's fresh in your mind. He'll then remove himself from social media for a bit - cue drama - and then pop up again doing the same thing. Or he'll like a post on Instagram insulting Roland or Southall, or related to a bit of transfer gossip. Then he'll post some cryptic song lyrics that you can relate to his expiring contract, all getting people riled up.
The point is that Lyle does whatever Lyle wants, and he doesn't really care about that affects anyone else, and he's always been like this. He's run down contracts before, he'll happily piss off Charlton fans if he's bored at home as long as it gives him some amusement and he'll speak his mind at any given moment. He'll also score lots of goals on the pitch. That's who Lyle is, and we know that. This scenario is that Lyle's goals have made him a sought-after commodity and as a result he's walking out, and he doesn't care if it pisses us and anyone else off because this is what works for him and who cares if we don't like it? In a way he kind of reminds me a bit of Southall, which is a comparison I'm sure he'd hate. When Southall came in he said exactly what
you'd want a new owner to say after the Roland years. Said he's just
the caretaker of the club and he's protecting it for the fans who are
the true lifeblood; then he goes and drains the club dry. Lovely stuff.
Just like Lyle said in his recent interviews that it's always the poor fans who suffer when these
terrible owners take over and won't someone think of the fans, and
immediately goes on strike for the end of the season, which he knows
could potentially scupper a takeover deal and lead to the end of the
club. They're not that different; Southall is obviously several thousand degrees worse as a person, but neither is above saying what they know people want to hear and then doing the exact opposite of what is right for those people if it's good for him personally. I think the negative media attention will annoy him and be more than he bargained for, but we're getting the Lyle Taylor we've always had here.
maybe....but he's gonna get c£25k a week to do it. He doesn't particularly care about football, we know that.
I don't know what his salary is, but it must have been a decent offer to bring him to us over Sunderland. I expect quadrupling it means he's on £5k to £8k and therefore £20k-£32k which I am pretty sure he'll get moving on to any top half championship club and easily any Prem club with or without injury...
Bloody obvious I would have thought. And when is next season anyway....? We haven't even re-started this one yet.
Lyle old son, you might be sitting on your arse for a few more months. Not as if you can go out shopping or for meals out. Oh, I forgot.......car showrooms opened up on Monday.
We do have other players out of contract,who will be wondering if new deals will be offered by Charlton are these players saying they are not playing because they might get hurt,thereby causing themselves problems if they are let go,no they are not.Naby Sarr,Williams,Cullen I believe and others could all adopt the same attitude.
Of course they could - and they would if they thought it would help their careers (and families).
Lyle's position is quite unique.
1) He has absolutely nothing to prove. His potential suitors don't want to give him another look before signing him. They would probably prefer he didn't play.
2) He has one last shot at possibly earning more money than he has earned in the whole of the rest of his career.
Naby, Williams and Cullen are going to achieve nothing by not playing. If Naby gets injured, he can just take his time and sign a contract in January. If Williams doesn't play now he'll never get another contract with anyone! Cullen needs to play as much as possible over the next year. Now is as good a time as any!
Comments
Still not excuses for not fulfilling his contract. But reasons nevertheless.
Lyle old son, you might be sitting on your arse for a few more months. Not as if you can go out shopping or for meals out. Oh, I forgot.......car showrooms opened up on Monday.
As for next season I wont be surprised if the EFL havent even thought about it
We should be getting the new fixtures for next season in the next few weeks so be curious to see when that'll be pushed back to
Yes players may not give "110%" in their remaining games, but the integrity of the sport relies on players giving their best, whoever they are against, the famous Law goal that relegated United being a prime example.
That is his contractual obligation to continue to work for the club up until 1st July. If not he should be immediately terminated.
The same goes for Solly. Having want-away players, refusing to play in and around the squad is going to be dangerous for morale. It could make other players make similar decisions and they would all be rats leaving a sinking ship. We need players and management staff to be willing to fight to keep us up.
What a ground, played at better grass roots grounds! Of those I have played at, here's Chipstead, Redhill and Horley Town.
His name is Lee Matthews and he is the owner of Sports Management International. He is on LinkedIN and SMI is on Twitter with quite an active account. Jonathon Woodgate appears to be one of their prominent clients.
So that's my day sorted, as a grumpy old pensioner with time on his hands. I shall attempt to, as they say, reach out to Mr Matthews...
Absolute moron.
I agree but entirely understand how it has come to that.
Grown men chant their names every Saturday for 10 months a year, kids and adults ask for selfies, they're adored on social media, sky subscriptions afford them excessive wages, kids idolise them and this generates huge sponsorship deals.
Many of them, particularly in the highest echelons have been told by clubs, fans, media, their friends and families and agents and all other such leeches on the gravy train that they are amazing from their mid to late teens.
It is understandable that they may develop an ego somewhere between feeling extra special and a messiah complex.
Equally, said players have seen how quickly the fans, press and clubs can turn on them in a run of poor form, injury or mistakes of the kind most young men will make in their transition to maturity and they can be roundly ridiculed bordering on abuse and dropped by sponsorship deals and playing contracts like hot potatoes if it's in the clubs' interests to do so . So I imagine they take a perspective early on that it's a business and this shapes the mindset. Adulation from fans and club hero status is great...but that won't pay the bills and one mistake on the pitch or poor run of form can see the same adoring fans can see it ended.
As sickening as it is the collective we have substantially contributed to this through our obsessive idolisation, adoration and football- related spending and we continue to enable it via the well oiled machine that is current football.
Rio Ferdinand commented on it before about 16 year old trainees in his day cleaning boots each day. Now they turn up with £500 headphones and Louis Vitton washbags. Leaves very little room for humility.
Lyle's position is quite unique.
1) He has absolutely nothing to prove. His potential suitors don't want to give him another look before signing him. They would probably prefer he didn't play.
2) He has one last shot at possibly earning more money than he has earned in the whole of the rest of his career.
Naby, Williams and Cullen are going to achieve nothing by not playing. If Naby gets injured, he can just take his time and sign a contract in January. If Williams doesn't play now he'll never get another contract with anyone! Cullen needs to play as much as possible over the next year. Now is as good a time as any!
@Garrymanilow that is an excellent summary!
Sure he had a worse shot than Churchinho but like Church he didn't stop harrying and chasing down everything.
He probably already knew we weren't going to keep him if we went up. An injury could have scuppered a move for him.
Willingness to play and fight in a relegation battle is more important than a play off final for me.
Everyone wants a game at Wembley, it takes real character to be willing to fight in a relegation battle.