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Tour de France (2023 from p54)
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Well wearing the Yellow Jersey will surely mean he's the most tested person at the Tour (Isnt that what Froome has said in the past?)
If he's on something we'll hopefully find out sooner rather than later as dont want his reputation being tarnished like Froome or Wiggins if he is clean!!0 -
It's not so much the win, or even the nature of it - putting time into Thomas at every checkpoint, and 8 seconds into him on the last section. It's more the fact that he jumped off the bike he'd just done a Sunday club run, whilst Thomas was still in bits ten minutes later. 🙄
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That last 8 seconds is the bit that gets me ... but let’s hope it was real and just an amazing ride.Leroy Ambrose said:It's not so much the win, or even the nature of it - putting time into Thomas at every checkpoint, and 8 seconds into him on the last section. It's more the fact that he jumped off the bike he'd just done a Sunday club run, whilst Thomas was still in bits ten minutes later. 🙄
I did predict him as an outsider for the podium but this is far exceeding that belief.
Tourmalet will be interesting tomorrow.1 -
Guess its a bit of both really; he's just taken eight seconds from a man who excels at this discipline
He's then jumped off the bike as though he's required hardly any effort - Neither sit straight with me...
I guess tomorrow will be interesting as if Alaphilippe has pushed himself too much then he surely wont cope with the climb0 -
I seem to recall that last year in the Giro, and with a healthy lead, it was his great performance in the ITT that fucked Yates up. He wasn’t the same after that stage.ForeverAddickted said:Guess its a bit of both really; he's just taken eight seconds from a man who excels at this discipline
He's then jumped off the bike as though he's required hardly any effort - Neither sit straight with me...
I guess tomorrow will be interesting as if Alaphilippe has pushed himself too much then he surely wont cope with the climb1 -
Wasnt that the day before Froome went on that massive attack?stonemuse said:
I seem to recall that last year in the Giro, and with a healthy lead, it was his great performance in the ITT that fucked Yates up. He wasn’t the same after that stage.ForeverAddickted said:Guess its a bit of both really; he's just taken eight seconds from a man who excels at this discipline
He's then jumped off the bike as though he's required hardly any effort - Neither sit straight with me...
I guess tomorrow will be interesting as if Alaphilippe has pushed himself too much then he surely wont cope with the climb0 -
Can’t be sure, but that was an amazing day by Froome, one of his ... or anyone’s... best ever.ForeverAddickted said:
Wasnt that the day before Froome went on that massive attack?stonemuse said:
I seem to recall that last year in the Giro, and with a healthy lead, it was his great performance in the ITT that fucked Yates up. He wasn’t the same after that stage.ForeverAddickted said:Guess its a bit of both really; he's just taken eight seconds from a man who excels at this discipline
He's then jumped off the bike as though he's required hardly any effort - Neither sit straight with me...
I guess tomorrow will be interesting as if Alaphilippe has pushed himself too much then he surely wont cope with the climb0 -
Agreed. Incredible ride. Wasn't he about 80km out when he attacked?stonemuse said:
Can’t be sure, but that was an amazing day by Froome, one of his ... or anyone’s... best ever.ForeverAddickted said:
Wasnt that the day before Froome went on that massive attack?stonemuse said:
I seem to recall that last year in the Giro, and with a healthy lead, it was his great performance in the ITT that fucked Yates up. He wasn’t the same after that stage.ForeverAddickted said:Guess its a bit of both really; he's just taken eight seconds from a man who excels at this discipline
He's then jumped off the bike as though he's required hardly any effort - Neither sit straight with me...
I guess tomorrow will be interesting as if Alaphilippe has pushed himself too much then he surely wont cope with the climb0 -
Indeed he was, a ride that few could do.Addickted said:
Agreed. Incredible ride. Wasn't he about 80km out when he attacked?stonemuse said:
Can’t be sure, but that was an amazing day by Froome, one of his ... or anyone’s... best ever.ForeverAddickted said:
Wasnt that the day before Froome went on that massive attack?stonemuse said:
I seem to recall that last year in the Giro, and with a healthy lead, it was his great performance in the ITT that fucked Yates up. He wasn’t the same after that stage.ForeverAddickted said:Guess its a bit of both really; he's just taken eight seconds from a man who excels at this discipline
He's then jumped off the bike as though he's required hardly any effort - Neither sit straight with me...
I guess tomorrow will be interesting as if Alaphilippe has pushed himself too much then he surely wont cope with the climb0 -
Not going to have a British winner this year0
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Not sure how Alaphilippe can keep this up ... I’m a fan but this is far beyond anything he has done before.0
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Can only hope that Thomas couldnt handle the Tourmalet and will still have enough to attack another day0
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YupForeverAddickted said:Can only hope that Thomas couldnt handle the Tourmalet and will still have enough to attack another day0 -
Anybody who thinks this is still legit is deluding themselves. Inside ten years this performance will have an asterisk beside it. Laughable.
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Absolutely.Leroy Ambrose said:Anybody who thinks this is still legit is deluding themselves. Inside ten years this performance will have an asterisk beside it. Laughable.
It's really stupid too. The improvement is ridiculous
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Have to agree unfortunately. More than 3 minutes improvement in the ITT and does not look even vaguely impacted in the high mountains.Leroy Ambrose said:Anybody who thinks this is still legit is deluding themselves. Inside ten years this performance will have an asterisk beside it. Laughable.
Unless he’s had a miracle year of training and advancement, this is massively out of kilter.
If if it was an Ineos rider, the press would be all over them.1 -
I knew that chemistry set I got for Christmas would do the business.Leroy Ambrose said:Anybody who thinks this is still legit is deluding themselves. Inside ten years this performance will have an asterisk beside it. Laughable.
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Surely we are not accusing a Frenchman of cheating in Tour De France. Someone is taking the piss (but not throwing it).0
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Based on what? You can't compare a TT when you're not going for GC. He's roughly the same size as Hinault. People around the peloton have said he's lost weight.Leroy Ambrose said:Anybody who thinks this is still legit is deluding themselves. Inside ten years this performance will have an asterisk beside it. Laughable.
If he's challenging in the third week in the Alps I'd be more inclined to question his performances. I can guess the TT was more down to the Moto being closer, and the terrain undoubtedly suited him.
I thought he'd have popped off today. It is very possible the best classics rider of their generation, especially deep into the era of power training, will compete if they crack power and weight ratios. This week if we have the same results in the high mountains, I'll struggle to believe his haematocrit's normal.0 -
Colin, great to read a post from you again but stick to football. In a strength endurance sport at elite level, nobody makes a 10% improvement within a year by losing a couple of kilos or improved training.1
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Except both Wiggins and Froomeharveys_gardener said:Colin, great to read a post from you again but stick to football. In a strength endurance sport at elite level, nobody makes a 10% improvement within a year by losing a couple of kilos or improved training.3 -
Especially Wiggins I think1
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Prior to winning their first Tour de France titlesAlwaysneil said:
Except both Wiggins and Froomeharveys_gardener said:Colin, great to read a post from you again but stick to football. In a strength endurance sport at elite level, nobody makes a 10% improvement within a year by losing a couple of kilos or improved training.
Wiggins won the 2012 Tour after finishing second in the Vuelta (2011) and third in the Tour (2009)
Froome won the Vuelta in 2011 (fourth in 2012) and came second in the Tour (2012)
Geraint Thomas came 15th twice in the Tour in 2015 | 2016 so you can argue that all three have improved results on a small scale prior to winning La Tour
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Sorry guys, I'm not talking about improvement over a 3 week event protected by your team, but over a 30 minute test where you individually are extended to your max. If you were a newcomer it is possible, changes to tactics, mental approach etc, but this is a guy who has been around for years. Sky in the early years benefited from technical advantages over other teams but it's more of a level playing field these days.1
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And all 3 did it in the most expensively assembled team ever put together. The fact that Wiggins had Froome, Thomas and Richie Port as his domestics says it all really.ForeverAddickted said:
Prior to winning their first Tour de France titlesAlwaysneil said:
Except both Wiggins and Froomeharveys_gardener said:Colin, great to read a post from you again but stick to football. In a strength endurance sport at elite level, nobody makes a 10% improvement within a year by losing a couple of kilos or improved training.
Wiggins won the 2012 Tour after finishing second in the Vuelta (2011) and third in the Tour (2009)
Froome won the Vuelta in 2011 (fourth in 2012) and came second in the Tour (2012)
Geraint Thomas came 15th twice in the Tour in 2015 | 2016 so you can argue that all three have improved results on a small scale prior to winning La Tour
This is one man making such improvements in such as short space of time he is 27 and never finished in the top 30 of a grand tour and is destroying the field. It doesn't look "normal" does it.1 -
100% if he wasn't French their press would be screaming 'drug cheat' and he'd be having bags of piss chucked at him. Now all they can is it's 'amazing and unexpected'.
Ami i right in saying he was almost 90 minutes down on Thomas in last years tour?1 -
Won the king of the mountains, finished 33rd and was 1 hour 28 behind. So yeah almost bang on 90 minutes.Chris_from_Sidcup said:100% if he wasn't French their press would be screaming 'drug cheat' and he'd be having bags of piss chucked at him. Now all they can is it's 'amazing and unexpected'.
Ami i right in saying he was almost 90 minutes down on Thomas in last years tour?1 -
Do have to wonder how the fans on the side of the road will start to behave if Thomas were to start clawing back time against Alaphilippe
First French hope in 34-years, they're not going to be happy if their chances start getting slimmer, especially if its a British rider threatening0 -
harveys_gardener whilst I love Leroy's posts on cycling, and his knowledge on cycling/racing is fascinating I'm inclined to give Alaphillipe a bit more time. There's little rumour around Allaphilipe or Quick Step.
Firstly the very best classics riders do, have and will compete in Grand Tours. Allaphillipe, Wout van Aert and especially Matt van der Poel have the talent and physiology to do it. They'll need to decide if they dedicate their whole year to a GT and then they'll need a training programme dedicated towards that. If you watched the classics this year you know that Allaphillipe bettered Fugalsang frequently. He has the numbers over Fugalsang, and he has a team that do their TT work: They've won 4 of the last 6/7 World TTTs for ****'s sake.
As for riders who've improved 10% the list is endless:
Froome mid 30's in ITTs, then a jump to 2nd in Vuelta.
Contador almost halfway down the pack to top 10 and top 3 between GT starts.
Indurain 130 in ITT to world class.
Lemond 19th to 2nd in one tour.
You may argue two of those, or three took PEDs. The point is people on their breakthrough tours make massive jumps in their ITTs when chasing GC. Allaphillipe would never have been extended to his max last year because he wasn't riding for GC! Your point is so fallacious, it's beyond thought. The guy's 20/40/60 min watt/weight output, VO2 max would have to be compared, from each season. Not just in race. Just look at Thomas de Gendt's TTs when he goes and when he glides in.
You can't compare an ITT at the end of week 3, where all the protected bigger guys came through as the stage suited them. If you compared Lemond ITT in race when young, he improved massively as he had a phenomenal V02 max that countered the precipitous drop everyone has in haemocaratic in the third week. In stage 13 the smaller gc riders competed, but not pure climbers. A top punchy classics rider had every chance on that stage.
Do I think it's possibble someone's up to something? Sure it's cycling. I stick by Allaphilipe will not make it past the Alps in the third week. If he does something is more likely different. But he's ridden two tours finished around 30, shown well in the mountains. Oh and in one ITT in his first tour he finished within seconds of Thomas, in the third week. Was that unacceptable?
Whilst I recognise Leroy's opinion but want a little more fact, forgive me Harvey if your lack of forensic analysis just has no substance. Let me enjoy this Tour like it's 2006, and put my Kimmage glasses on afterwards. At least print press will have a bit more fact checking if something comes out.
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He never rode for GC before, just jerseys and stage wins. Once he’d hoovered up kom points last year, he rested up.Cafc43v3r said:
And all 3 did it in the most expensively assembled team ever put together. The fact that Wiggins had Froome, Thomas and Richie Port as his domestics says it all really.ForeverAddickted said:
Prior to winning their first Tour de France titlesAlwaysneil said:
Except both Wiggins and Froomeharveys_gardener said:Colin, great to read a post from you again but stick to football. In a strength endurance sport at elite level, nobody makes a 10% improvement within a year by losing a couple of kilos or improved training.
Wiggins won the 2012 Tour after finishing second in the Vuelta (2011) and third in the Tour (2009)
Froome won the Vuelta in 2011 (fourth in 2012) and came second in the Tour (2012)
Geraint Thomas came 15th twice in the Tour in 2015 | 2016 so you can argue that all three have improved results on a small scale prior to winning La Tour
This is one man making such improvements in such as short space of time he is 27 and never finished in the top 30 of a grand tour and is destroying the field. It doesn't look "normal" does it.1
