I notice that the animal equality video, showing the appalling cruelty in raising little chicks to chicken feed, seems to have stymied this thread somewhat. I quite admire the resilience of meat eaters like Ibborg who rejoice in their right to eat what they want, no matter how much the animal suffers. I used to know a guy (a deputy head teacher) who liked to ridicule us veggies on a daily basis. Eventually he moved to Lincolnshire and had his own croft because it was his dream to provide his own meat. Imagine my surprise when we met up about five years later to find he was now a vegetarian because he simply could not kill his pigs, lambs or chickens! There is no moral to this true story, just one guy who was unable to walk his talk and duly flipped his food concepts. Personally I tend to regard food as body fuel and have never been a slave to my senses- well at any rate I don't think so but that is just me but I am aware we are all a bit different.
Hopefully it's just calculated awareness raising about the wool industry... If this is serious then they are actually setting their cause back with this kind of shit.
If this is what a vegan diet does to the brain then I'll stick to lamb chops.
I notice that the animal equality video, showing the appalling cruelty in raising little chicks to chicken feed, seems to have stymied this thread somewhat. I quite admire the resilience of meat eaters like Ibborg who rejoice in their right to eat what they want, no matter how much the animal suffers. I used to know a guy (a deputy head teacher) who liked to ridicule us veggies on a daily basis. Eventually he moved to Lincolnshire and had his own croft because it was his dream to provide his own meat. Imagine my surprise when we met up about five years later to find he was now a vegetarian because he simply could not kill his pigs, lambs or chickens! There is no moral to this true story, just one guy who was unable to walk his talk and duly flipped his food concepts. Personally I tend to regard food as body fuel and have never been a slave to my senses- well at any rate I don't think so but that is just me but I am aware we are all a bit different.
I don’t think that is what @i_b_b_o_r_g has been advocating at all.
Here in Broadstairs we now have a new Vegan Restaurant that does vegetarian fish and chips - no idea whats subs for fish ...
It's not vegetarian fish and chips. It's simply a vegetarian meal with absolutely no correlation to fish and chips. The only reason the handle 'fish & chips' is used is to make the un-appetising meal sound edible. Even vegetarians need the suggestion of meat or fish (whether it be vegetarian sausages, facon or other such meat based references) to sell a proportion of the foods aimed at that target market.
What sounds more appealing, vegetable cylinders or vegetarian sausages?
Here in Broadstairs we now have a new Vegan Restaurant that does vegetarian fish and chips - no idea whats subs for fish ...
It's not vegetarian fish and chips. It's simply a vegetarian meal with absolutely no correlation to fish and chips. The only reason the handle 'fish & chips' is used is to make the un-appetising meal sound edible. Even vegetarians need the suggestion of meat or fish (whether it be vegetarian sausages, facon or other such meat based references) to sell a proportion of the foods aimed at that target market.
What sounds more appealing, vegetable cylinders or vegetarian sausages?
I notice that the animal equality video, showing the appalling cruelty in raising little chicks to chicken feed, seems to have stymied this thread somewhat. I quite admire the resilience of meat eaters like Ibborg who rejoice in their right to eat what they want, no matter how much the animal suffers. I used to know a guy (a deputy head teacher) who liked to ridicule us veggies on a daily basis. Eventually he moved to Lincolnshire and had his own croft because it was his dream to provide his own meat. Imagine my surprise when we met up about five years later to find he was now a vegetarian because he simply could not kill his pigs, lambs or chickens! There is no moral to this true story, just one guy who was unable to walk his talk and duly flipped his food concepts. Personally I tend to regard food as body fuel and have never been a slave to my senses- well at any rate I don't think so but that is just me but I am aware we are all a bit different.
I dont think you could be more wrong regarding me rejoicing in my "right to eat what they want, no matter how much the animal suffers", you obviously aint got the first clue about me, and I don't know why you think vegans are above any form of scrutiny or banter, especially when they come out with lines like "you can't like or respect animals if you eat them".
I quite admire the resilience of meat eaters like Ibborg who rejoice in their right to eat what they want, no matter how much the animal suffers.
If a method of ending an animals life instantly was introduced, whereby the animal didn't suffer, I assume that would be acceptable going by the above statement?
i_b_b_o_r_g July 6 Just wanted to say that it is possible to love, appreciate and respect animals, while also eating meat.
Also, Imo eating well sourced meat is the most ethical way to be (incl. veggie / vegan), but I won't go on because I know talking about meat and rearing it / getting it yourself, offends a couple of people on here, even though it's a completely natural thing to do and shouldn't need justifying to the minority
When I said I admired your resilience I was referring to comments like the one above and I linked it to the saga of my old pal who found he actually could not kill the animals that he raised. My 'no matter how much the animal suffers...' might appear offensive but if you actually look at the 'Equality Video' surely there is no doubt about the animal suffering? As for banter...well being a Charlton fan and a vegan I've had a lifetime of it and it is absolutely fine.
i_b_b_o_r_g July 6 Just wanted to say that it is possible to love, appreciate and respect animals, while also eating meat.
Also, Imo eating well sourced meat is the most ethical way to be (incl. veggie / vegan), but I won't go on because I know talking about meat and rearing it / getting it yourself, offends a couple of people on here, even though it's a completely natural thing to do and shouldn't need justifying to the minority
When I said I admired your resilience I was referring to comments like the one above and I linked it to the saga of my old pal who found he actually could not kill the animals that he raised. My 'no matter how much the animal suffers...' might appear offensive but if you actually look at the 'Equality Video' surely there is no doubt about the animal suffering? As for banter...well being a Charlton fan and a vegan I've had a lifetime of it and it is absolutely fine.
Just gone through the last ten pages. Whilst I’ve no real interest in the stuff Anna Kissed puts on here, I really don’t understand why meat eaters have to come on this thread and act like nob heads.
Has a few meat free dinners this week and really enjoyed. Tonight was pasta, broccoli, mixed peppers, mushrooms & chilli flakes in a tomato sauce. Was lovely
I notice that the animal equality video, showing the appalling cruelty in raising little chicks to chicken feed, seems to have stymied this thread somewhat. I quite admire the resilience of meat eaters like Ibborg who rejoice in their right to eat what they want, no matter how much the animal suffers. I used to know a guy (a deputy head teacher) who liked to ridicule us veggies on a daily basis. Eventually he moved to Lincolnshire and had his own croft because it was his dream to provide his own meat. Imagine my surprise when we met up about five years later to find he was now a vegetarian because he simply could not kill his pigs, lambs or chickens! There is no moral to this true story, just one guy who was unable to walk his talk and duly flipped his food concepts. Personally I tend to regard food as body fuel and have never been a slave to my senses- well at any rate I don't think so but that is just me but I am aware we are all a bit different.
Just gone through the last ten pages. Whilst I’ve no real interest in the stuff Anna Kissed puts on here, I really don’t understand why meat eaters have to come on this thread and act like nob heads.
At one point I thought this thread had the potential to be positive, there was some good debate initially but AFKA’s right, it’s degenerated to a waste of time and that hasn’t been caused by those of us who stick to eating plants. Some of the more recent comments say more about the calibre of certain posters than they’ll ever say about veganism.
Just gone through the last ten pages. Whilst I’ve no real interest in the stuff Anna Kissed puts on here, I really don’t understand why meat eaters have to come on this thread and act like nob heads.
At one point I thought this thread had the potential to be positive, there was some good debate initially but AFKA’s right, it’s degenerated to a waste of time and that hasn’t been caused by those of us who stick to eating plants. Some of the more recent comments say more about the calibre of certain posters than they’ll ever say about veganism.
There are WUMs on either side.
I can see the pros and cons of meat, the meat industry and animal slaughter.
I do not agree that Veganism is a positive move for an already overpopulated planet. Sure it might make us all feel a bit more holy, but what happens to all the animals? Who feeds them?
They won't have any land to graze upon as EVERYONE in a vegan world would need more land to farm food.
In a Vegan world you cannot use any animal byproduct and therefore farming would be hard without animal manure as fertiliser.
We'd all have to be taking vitamin supplements.
Does a vegan baby milk exist for the babies of mothers who through no fault of their own can't produce milk naturally.
Would that milk give the baby all it needs in terms of nutrition?
I'm sure that pets would also suffer in a vegan world as dogs and cats are meant to eat meat and withdrawing meat from their diet is nonsensical.
Do I think that I am a hypocrite as I love animals, yet eat meat... for sure I am.
Rounding this post off, sure Vegans have a stronger moral position than I providing they are doing it to benefit animals, but whether they have thought of the larger picture? I don't think they have as even their approach can be inflammatory. It's the holier than thou attitude that the most vocal vegans have that causes meat eaters to protest... Maybe small changes to their approach can change others attitudes towards the situation and cause less animal byproducts to be eaten as the war to end all animal byproducts is unrealistic.
I think there are three main reasons for people becoming vegan: health; creature compassion and ecological. Now back in the day the environmental argument for being a vegan was a strong one with 7.6 billion acres of land in the world more than enough to provide food for the whole planet. Not sure of the figures these days, probably a bit smaller. Dazzler's point about what to do with all the animals is a misnomer really as it is all supply and demand with artificial insemination. The world is not suddenly about to become vegan and leave us with the problem of feeding cows, pigs and sheep for the next twenty or so years. I do visualise people eating less meat as there are now healthy and cheaper options. I can respect Ibborg for raising and killing his own livestock. My nan used to kill her chickens during the war years. It was all about survival then. I couldn't do it myself though, well I don't think so. If you are starving in a boat and a fish jumps on board, what do you do? Baldybonce, have you noticed how many of the wild animals are gradually heading for extinction - polar bears, bears, tigers and other big cats? It is sad for they are so beautiful. On a domestic level I notice that they now mix vegetables in cat food. I have friends who have vegetarian dogs and they seem okay but I am not sure what I think about it.
Poached eggs, avocado and spinach bagel from brunch, with lashings of black pepper and BBQ sauce.
Wallop
Freshly ground black pepper is so great. In the middle ages it was dearer than gold. I also own a pepper grinder that doesn't break does a brilliant job and is guaranteed for life.
Poached eggs, avocado and spinach bagel from brunch, with lashings of black pepper and BBQ sauce.
Wallop
Freshly ground black pepper is so great. In the middle ages it was dearer than gold. I also own a pepper grinder that doesn't break does a brilliant job and is guaranteed for life.
I think this thread has some useful debate buried in it. However, despite the wind up merchants on both sides, there's undoubtedly been more absolute shit posted by one particular poster (and I'm not talking about Anna_Kissed here) that needed some strong rebuttal with - you know - 'facts'. However, despite this, I think some of the sensible posters on the thread will have enlightened and educated some of the meat eaters, so it balances itself out
Comments
Even vegetarians need the suggestion of meat or fish (whether it be vegetarian sausages, facon or other such meat based references) to sell a proportion of the foods aimed at that target market.
What sounds more appealing, vegetable cylinders or vegetarian sausages?
July 6
Just wanted to say that it is possible to love, appreciate and respect animals, while also eating meat.
Also, Imo eating well sourced meat is the most ethical way to be (incl. veggie / vegan), but I won't go on because I know talking about meat and rearing it / getting it yourself, offends a couple of people on here, even though it's a completely natural thing to do and shouldn't need justifying to the minority
When I said I admired your resilience I was referring to comments like the one above and I linked it to the saga of my old pal who found he actually could not kill the animals that he raised. My 'no matter how much the animal suffers...' might appear offensive but if you actually look at the 'Equality Video' surely there is no doubt about the animal suffering? As for banter...well being a Charlton fan and a vegan I've had a lifetime of it and it is absolutely fine.
It’s not funny and just comes across as pathetic.
I get what you meant @AddickUpNorth
At one point I thought this thread had the potential to be positive, there was some good debate initially but AFKA’s right, it’s degenerated to a waste of time and that hasn’t been caused by those of us who stick to eating plants. Some of the more recent comments say more about the calibre of certain posters than they’ll ever say about veganism.
I can see the pros and cons of meat, the meat industry and animal slaughter.
I do not agree that Veganism is a positive move for an already overpopulated planet. Sure it might make us all feel a bit more holy, but what happens to all the animals? Who feeds them?
They won't have any land to graze upon as EVERYONE in a vegan world would need more land to farm food.
In a Vegan world you cannot use any animal byproduct and therefore farming would be hard without animal manure as fertiliser.
We'd all have to be taking vitamin supplements.
Does a vegan baby milk exist for the babies of mothers who through no fault of their own can't produce milk naturally.
Would that milk give the baby all it needs in terms of nutrition?
I'm sure that pets would also suffer in a vegan world as dogs and cats are meant to eat meat and withdrawing meat from their diet is nonsensical.
Do I think that I am a hypocrite as I love animals, yet eat meat... for sure I am.
Rounding this post off, sure Vegans have a stronger moral position than I providing they are doing it to benefit animals, but whether they have thought of the larger picture? I don't think they have as even their approach can be inflammatory. It's the holier than thou attitude that the most vocal vegans have that causes meat eaters to protest...
Maybe small changes to their approach can change others attitudes towards the situation and cause less animal byproducts to be eaten as the war to end all animal byproducts is unrealistic.
Dazzler's point about what to do with all the animals is a misnomer really as it is all supply and demand with artificial insemination. The world is not suddenly about to become vegan and leave us with the problem of feeding cows, pigs and sheep for the next twenty or so years. I do visualise people eating less meat as there are now healthy and cheaper options.
I can respect Ibborg for raising and killing his own livestock. My nan used to kill her chickens during the war years. It was all about survival then. I couldn't do it myself though, well I don't think so. If you are starving in a boat and a fish jumps on board, what do you do?
Baldybonce, have you noticed how many of the wild animals are gradually heading for extinction - polar bears, bears, tigers and other big cats? It is sad for they are so beautiful. On a domestic level I notice that they now mix vegetables in cat food. I have friends who have vegetarian dogs and they seem okay but I am not sure what I think about it.
Wallop
I also own a pepper grinder that doesn't break does a brilliant job and is guaranteed for life.
Only drink once a week. Probably why I’m no good at it