Discussing the language used clouds the principle issues in my view. It is a valid discussion as far as it goes don't get me wrong, but if the accusation towards vegans and vegetarians is that somehow they secretly love the taste of certain meats and fish, don't really mean it after all, and yearn for that which they deny themselves by basically being poseurs. One approach is that certain foods are labelled the way they are in order to encourage transition, but the words 'vegetarian' or 'vegan' are big signals. I mean I doubt if a chippy uses 'vegan' fish and pretends it is real.It reminds me of a story I once heard about a hostess irritated at having a vegetarian amongst her guests, assured the vegetarian that the gravy was vegetarian when it was actually meat/animal based. After the vegetarian had finished eating the hostess revealed that the gravy was meat based, but followed it up with a smug 'but you liked that didn't you, you ate it all'. One of my fears is being 'confused' in a care home at an advanced age and being given fish or meat and not knowing.
I've had this discussion with people before, for me there are 4 types of vegan/vegetarian
1) Vegetarian/Vegan for ethical reasons, don't want animals killed or mistreated in their name 2) essential dietary reasons, people's whose stomachs can't digest meat essentially so stick to pescatarian/vegan/vegetarian diets for the sake of their health and wellbeing 3) sports or physical performance reasons, David Haye is an example of this as are a couple of rugby players whose names are escaping me who, whilst in training stick to only a plant based regime. All of them look like they are carved from granite 4) Necessesity, if you move to another country where either meat is a luxury or food hygiene is non-existent and will play merry hell with our western guts, it's best to stay on cooked vegetables. One of my best mates is Indian and whenever he goes to visit family he becomes a pescatarian for a few weeks for this exact reason
I could probably put another category in for fashionable vegetarians and vegans but thatbwoukd sound like I'm digging when I'm not. Either way, we live in a world where people are allowed a choice thankfully and whilst I laugh at the jokes about knowing people are vegan because they will tell you, I do so with a light heart.
What isn't acceptable is people unknowingly being given meat for a giggle or some sort of test. Would they give someone allergic to nuts something with them in and wait with baited breath for them to go into anaphylactic shock to prove a point?
One thing has to be considered and that is the sheer volume of greenhouse gases created by the massive livestock demand, let alone the fact that most of the world would be vegetarian if access to meat was by killing it and preparing it yourself, and let's not forget the thing that makes me a hypocrite is the fact we breed these animals for them to be killed and selected parts of them eaten by us. Which I don't like but continue to sponsor even by buying organic and free range meat. It was alive once and now it isn't because I don't have the willpower to totally cut out meat
5) Just doing it for attention.
6) to match your tattoo
Maybe her name's Megan and the tattooist made a mistake?
Discussing the language used clouds the principle issues in my view. It is a valid discussion as far as it goes don't get me wrong, but if the accusation towards vegans and vegetarians is that somehow they secretly love the taste of certain meats and fish, don't really mean it after all, and yearn for that which they deny themselves by basically being poseurs. One approach is that certain foods are labelled the way they are in order to encourage transition, but the words 'vegetarian' or 'vegan' are big signals. I mean I doubt if a chippy uses 'vegan' fish and pretends it is real.It reminds me of a story I once heard about a hostess irritated at having a vegetarian amongst her guests, assured the vegetarian that the gravy was vegetarian when it was actually meat/animal based. After the vegetarian had finished eating the hostess revealed that the gravy was meat based, but followed it up with a smug 'but you liked that didn't you, you ate it all'. One of my fears is being 'confused' in a care home at an advanced age and being given fish or meat and not knowing.
I've had this discussion with people before, for me there are 4 types of vegan/vegetarian
1) Vegetarian/Vegan for ethical reasons, don't want animals killed or mistreated in their name 2) essential dietary reasons, people's whose stomachs can't digest meat essentially so stick to pescatarian/vegan/vegetarian diets for the sake of their health and wellbeing 3) sports or physical performance reasons, David Haye is an example of this as are a couple of rugby players whose names are escaping me who, whilst in training stick to only a plant based regime. All of them look like they are carved from granite 4) Necessesity, if you move to another country where either meat is a luxury or food hygiene is non-existent and will play merry hell with our western guts, it's best to stay on cooked vegetables. One of my best mates is Indian and whenever he goes to visit family he becomes a pescatarian for a few weeks for this exact reason
I could probably put another category in for fashionable vegetarians and vegans but thatbwoukd sound like I'm digging when I'm not. Either way, we live in a world where people are allowed a choice thankfully and whilst I laugh at the jokes about knowing people are vegan because they will tell you, I do so with a light heart.
What isn't acceptable is people unknowingly being given meat for a giggle or some sort of test. Would they give someone allergic to nuts something with them in and wait with baited breath for them to go into anaphylactic shock to prove a point?
One thing has to be considered and that is the sheer volume of greenhouse gases created by the massive livestock demand, let alone the fact that most of the world would be vegetarian if access to meat was by killing it and preparing it yourself, and let's not forget the thing that makes me a hypocrite is the fact we breed these animals for them to be killed and selected parts of them eaten by us. Which I don't like but continue to sponsor even by buying organic and free range meat. It was alive once and now it isn't because I don't have the willpower to totally cut out meat
5) Just doing it for attention.
6) to match your tattoo
Note to self:- never get any work done by the only dyslexic tattooist in Vegas.
Haven’t read much of this thread. A couple moved in next to us about 18 months ago. Both in their early 50’s. She a Pilates instructor, him a building inspector. Both committed Vegans. Always ill. As I type they have texted my wife to day they are both bedridden with the Flu, AGAIN. This is their second bout since September. They have had more colds this year than I have had in 10. They need some meat.
Disagree with this attitude towards veganism.
It's proven time and time again by scientists to be healthier overall.
If it were just a dietary choice, it'd be treated the same as vegetarianism is mostly. It's fine. It's just what you like.
That must explain why so many vegans rely on supplements.
Haven’t read much of this thread. A couple moved in next to us about 18 months ago. Both in their early 50’s. She a Pilates instructor, him a building inspector. Both committed Vegans. Always ill. As I type they have texted my wife to day they are both bedridden with the Flu, AGAIN. This is their second bout since September. They have had more colds this year than I have had in 10. They need some meat.
Disagree with this attitude towards veganism.
It's proven time and time again by scientists to be healthier overall.
If it were just a dietary choice, it'd be treated the same as vegetarianism is mostly. It's fine. It's just what you like.
That must explain why so many vegans rely on supplements.
‘Rely on supplements’? Do you have the research to back that up or is that really just your belief? Personally I only take a B Complex regularly and a Vit D supplement in the winter and that’s it. I’m perfectly healthy and have the medical records to prove it. To suggest that ‘many vegans’ can only maintain health through supplementation is, imo, bollocks. Maybe a crap vegan who lives on nothing but Oreos but for someone who eats a broad range of plant based foods it is easy to get the nutrients a human being needs to maintain prime health.
Besides, supplements aren’t just used by vegans or else Holland and Barrett would have gone out of business a long, long time ago.
Haven’t read much of this thread. A couple moved in next to us about 18 months ago. Both in their early 50’s. She a Pilates instructor, him a building inspector. Both committed Vegans. Always ill. As I type they have texted my wife to day they are both bedridden with the Flu, AGAIN. This is their second bout since September. They have had more colds this year than I have had in 10. They need some meat.
Disagree with this attitude towards veganism.
It's proven time and time again by scientists to be healthier overall.
If it were just a dietary choice, it'd be treated the same as vegetarianism is mostly. It's fine. It's just what you like.
That must explain why so many vegans rely on supplements.
‘Rely on supplements’? Do you have the research to back that up or is that really just your belief? Personally I only take a B Complex regularly and a Vit D supplement in the winter and that’s it. I’m perfectly healthy and have the medical records to prove it. To suggest that ‘many vegans’ can only maintain health through supplementation is, imo, bollocks. Maybe a crap vegan who lives on nothing but Oreos but for someone who eats a broad range of plant based foods it is easy to get the nutrients a human being needs to maintain prime health.
Besides, supplements aren’t just used by vegans or else Holland and Barrett would have gone out of business a long, long time ago.
I never once said it's impossible to be a healthy vegan without supplements, I dispute that scientists have proven "time and time again" that veganism is healthier.
" Most vegans consume enough B12 to avoid anemia and nervous system damage, but many do not get enough to minimize potential risk of heart disease or pregnancy complications."
Would seem to back up my suggestion that many - not all - vegans rely on supplements.
I'm also aware many non vegans require supplements, I take them myself, but then my diet is not something anyone should aspire to maintain!
Haven’t read much of this thread. A couple moved in next to us about 18 months ago. Both in their early 50’s. She a Pilates instructor, him a building inspector. Both committed Vegans. Always ill. As I type they have texted my wife to day they are both bedridden with the Flu, AGAIN. This is their second bout since September. They have had more colds this year than I have had in 10. They need some meat.
Disagree with this attitude towards veganism.
It's proven time and time again by scientists to be healthier overall.
If it were just a dietary choice, it'd be treated the same as vegetarianism is mostly. It's fine. It's just what you like.
That must explain why so many vegans rely on supplements.
‘Rely on supplements’? Do you have the research to back that up
This is the latest study I could find relatively quickly.
It's highlighted a few things. There are also links below to other studies.
Haven’t read much of this thread. A couple moved in next to us about 18 months ago. Both in their early 50’s. She a Pilates instructor, him a building inspector. Both committed Vegans. Always ill. As I type they have texted my wife to day they are both bedridden with the Flu, AGAIN. This is their second bout since September. They have had more colds this year than I have had in 10. They need some meat.
Disagree with this attitude towards veganism.
It's proven time and time again by scientists to be healthier overall.
If it were just a dietary choice, it'd be treated the same as vegetarianism is mostly. It's fine. It's just what you like.
That must explain why so many vegans rely on supplements.
‘Rely on supplements’? Do you have the research to back that up or is that really just your belief? Personally I only take a B Complex regularly and a Vit D supplement in the winter and that’s it. I’m perfectly healthy and have the medical records to prove it. To suggest that ‘many vegans’ can only maintain health through supplementation is, imo, bollocks. Maybe a crap vegan who lives on nothing but Oreos but for someone who eats a broad range of plant based foods it is easy to get the nutrients a human being needs to maintain prime health.
Besides, supplements aren’t just used by vegans or else Holland and Barrett would have gone out of business a long, long time ago.
I never once said it's impossible to be a healthy vegan without supplements, I dispute that scientists have proven "time and time again" that veganism is healthier.
" Most vegans consume enough B12 to avoid anemia and nervous system damage, but many do not get enough to minimize potential risk of heart disease or pregnancy complications."
Would seem to back up my suggestion that many - not all - vegans rely on supplements.
I'm also aware many non vegans require supplements, I take them myself, but then my diet is not something anyone should aspire to maintain!
I make you right Stuey, I'll also add that I take a couple of supplements from Holland and Barrett everyday to a) help me deliver a nice, long, tapered solid stool every day b) they make me feel better. I also eat a handful of apricot kernels daily which have something called b17 in and have made me feel more.... Energised
Haven’t read much of this thread. A couple moved in next to us about 18 months ago. Both in their early 50’s. She a Pilates instructor, him a building inspector. Both committed Vegans. Always ill. As I type they have texted my wife to day they are both bedridden with the Flu, AGAIN. This is their second bout since September. They have had more colds this year than I have had in 10. They need some meat.
Disagree with this attitude towards veganism.
It's proven time and time again by scientists to be healthier overall.
If it were just a dietary choice, it'd be treated the same as vegetarianism is mostly. It's fine. It's just what you like.
That must explain why so many vegans rely on supplements.
‘Rely on supplements’? Do you have the research to back that up or is that really just your belief? Personally I only take a B Complex regularly and a Vit D supplement in the winter and that’s it. I’m perfectly healthy and have the medical records to prove it. To suggest that ‘many vegans’ can only maintain health through supplementation is, imo, bollocks. Maybe a crap vegan who lives on nothing but Oreos but for someone who eats a broad range of plant based foods it is easy to get the nutrients a human being needs to maintain prime health.
Besides, supplements aren’t just used by vegans or else Holland and Barrett would have gone out of business a long, long time ago.
I never once said it's impossible to be a healthy vegan without supplements, I dispute that scientists have proven "time and time again" that veganism is healthier.
" Most vegans consume enough B12 to avoid anemia and nervous system damage, but many do not get enough to minimize potential risk of heart disease or pregnancy complications."
Would seem to back up my suggestion that many - not all - vegans rely on supplements.
I'm also aware many non vegans require supplements, I take them myself, but then my diet is not something anyone should aspire to maintain!
I make you right Stuey, I'll also add that I take a couple of supplements from Holland and Barrett everyday to a) help me deliver a nice, long, tapered solid stool every day b) they make me feel better. I also eat a handful of apricot kernels daily which have something called b17 in and have made me feel more.... Energised
Where is Dicko and who the F are you?!
Apricot kernels are a long way from Tesco's brandy, that's for sure!
Haven’t read much of this thread. A couple moved in next to us about 18 months ago. Both in their early 50’s. She a Pilates instructor, him a building inspector. Both committed Vegans. Always ill. As I type they have texted my wife to day they are both bedridden with the Flu, AGAIN. This is their second bout since September. They have had more colds this year than I have had in 10. They need some meat.
Disagree with this attitude towards veganism.
It's proven time and time again by scientists to be healthier overall.
If it were just a dietary choice, it'd be treated the same as vegetarianism is mostly. It's fine. It's just what you like.
That must explain why so many vegans rely on supplements.
‘Rely on supplements’? Do you have the research to back that up
This is the latest study I could find relatively quickly.
It's highlighted a few things. There are also links below to other studies.
It’s the word ‘rely’ that irks me as it suggests that vegans cannot live a healthy life without supplementation which is patently untrue. I’ve already acknowledged that a vegan diet may be deficient in some minor things but I would wager that your average person in the street that follows an omnivore diet is deficient in nutrients if they only live on chips and chicken nuggets. It’s quite simple, if you feed yourself shit, whichever diet you follow, you’re not going to be at your optimal health.
Haven’t read much of this thread. A couple moved in next to us about 18 months ago. Both in their early 50’s. She a Pilates instructor, him a building inspector. Both committed Vegans. Always ill. As I type they have texted my wife to day they are both bedridden with the Flu, AGAIN. This is their second bout since September. They have had more colds this year than I have had in 10. They need some meat.
Disagree with this attitude towards veganism.
It's proven time and time again by scientists to be healthier overall.
If it were just a dietary choice, it'd be treated the same as vegetarianism is mostly. It's fine. It's just what you like.
That must explain why so many vegans rely on supplements.
‘Rely on supplements’? Do you have the research to back that up
This is the latest study I could find relatively quickly.
It's highlighted a few things. There are also links below to other studies.
It’s the word ‘rely’ that irks me as it suggests that vegans cannot live a healthy life without supplementation which is patently untrue. I’ve already acknowledged that a vegan diet may be deficient in some minor things but I would wager that your average person in the street that follows an omnivore diet is deficient in nutrients if they only live on chips and chicken nuggets. It’s quite simple, if you feed yourself shit, whichever diet you follow, you’re not going to be at your optimal health.
If you were to feed yourself shit you would have no problems with a vitamin B12 deficiency. B12 is formed by bacteria in the soil feeding on shit. Animals feed on unwashed plants so get a good amount of B12. We however wash our plant food before we eat it which is why so many people are deficient in B12 and not only vegans. But rather than eat soil and shit I do prefer to take a B12 supplement :-)
Haven’t read much of this thread. A couple moved in next to us about 18 months ago. Both in their early 50’s. She a Pilates instructor, him a building inspector. Both committed Vegans. Always ill. As I type they have texted my wife to day they are both bedridden with the Flu, AGAIN. This is their second bout since September. They have had more colds this year than I have had in 10. They need some meat.
Disagree with this attitude towards veganism.
It's proven time and time again by scientists to be healthier overall.
If it were just a dietary choice, it'd be treated the same as vegetarianism is mostly. It's fine. It's just what you like.
That must explain why so many vegans rely on supplements.
‘Rely on supplements’? Do you have the research to back that up
This is the latest study I could find relatively quickly.
It's highlighted a few things. There are also links below to other studies.
It’s the word ‘rely’ that irks me as it suggests that vegans cannot live a healthy life without supplementation which is patently untrue. I’ve already acknowledged that a vegan diet may be deficient in some minor things but I would wager that your average person in the street that follows an omnivore diet is deficient in nutrients if they only live on chips and chicken nuggets. It’s quite simple, if you feed yourself shit, whichever diet you follow, you’re not going to be at your optimal health.
If you were to feed yourself shit you would have no problems with a vitamin B12 deficiency. B12 is formed by bacteria in the soil feeding on shit. Animals feed on unwashed plants so get a good amount of B12. We however wash our plant food before we eat it which is why so many people are deficient in B12 and not only vegans. But rather than eat soil and shit I do prefer to take a B12 supplement :-)
You'd think as Charlton fans we'd all have had enough shit over the years.
Haven’t read much of this thread. A couple moved in next to us about 18 months ago. Both in their early 50’s. She a Pilates instructor, him a building inspector. Both committed Vegans. Always ill. As I type they have texted my wife to day they are both bedridden with the Flu, AGAIN. This is their second bout since September. They have had more colds this year than I have had in 10. They need some meat.
Disagree with this attitude towards veganism.
It's proven time and time again by scientists to be healthier overall.
If it were just a dietary choice, it'd be treated the same as vegetarianism is mostly. It's fine. It's just what you like.
That must explain why so many vegans rely on supplements.
‘Rely on supplements’? Do you have the research to back that up
This is the latest study I could find relatively quickly.
It's highlighted a few things. There are also links below to other studies.
It’s the word ‘rely’ that irks me as it suggests that vegans cannot live a healthy life without supplementation which is patently untrue. I’ve already acknowledged that a vegan diet may be deficient in some minor things but I would wager that your average person in the street that follows an omnivore diet is deficient in nutrients if they only live on chips and chicken nuggets. It’s quite simple, if you feed yourself shit, whichever diet you follow, you’re not going to be at your optimal health.
If you were to feed yourself shit you would have no problems with a vitamin B12 deficiency. B12 is formed by bacteria in the soil feeding on shit. Animals feed on unwashed plants so get a good amount of B12. We however wash our plant food before we eat it which is why so many people are deficient in B12 and not only vegans. But rather than eat soil and shit I do prefer to take a B12 supplement :-)
Completely understand you not eating animals, but eating stealth war planes is a bit extreme ain't it?
Haven’t read much of this thread. A couple moved in next to us about 18 months ago. Both in their early 50’s. She a Pilates instructor, him a building inspector. Both committed Vegans. Always ill. As I type they have texted my wife to day they are both bedridden with the Flu, AGAIN. This is their second bout since September. They have had more colds this year than I have had in 10. They need some meat.
Disagree with this attitude towards veganism.
It's proven time and time again by scientists to be healthier overall.
If it were just a dietary choice, it'd be treated the same as vegetarianism is mostly. It's fine. It's just what you like.
That must explain why so many vegans rely on supplements.
‘Rely on supplements’? Do you have the research to back that up
This is the latest study I could find relatively quickly.
It's highlighted a few things. There are also links below to other studies.
It’s the word ‘rely’ that irks me as it suggests that vegans cannot live a healthy life without supplementation which is patently untrue. I’ve already acknowledged that a vegan diet may be deficient in some minor things but I would wager that your average person in the street that follows an omnivore diet is deficient in nutrients if they only live on chips and chicken nuggets. It’s quite simple, if you feed yourself shit, whichever diet you follow, you’re not going to be at your optimal health.
If you were to feed yourself shit you would have no problems with a vitamin B12 deficiency. B12 is formed by bacteria in the soil feeding on shit. Animals feed on unwashed plants so get a good amount of B12. We however wash our plant food before we eat it which is why so many people are deficient in B12 and not only vegans. But rather than eat soil and shit I do prefer to take a B12 supplement :-)
Completely understand you not eating animals, but eating stealth war planes is war planes is a bit extreme ain't it?
The problem isn't in eating stealth war planes - it's finding them.
Haven’t read much of this thread. A couple moved in next to us about 18 months ago. Both in their early 50’s. She a Pilates instructor, him a building inspector. Both committed Vegans. Always ill. As I type they have texted my wife to day they are both bedridden with the Flu, AGAIN. This is their second bout since September. They have had more colds this year than I have had in 10. They need some meat.
Disagree with this attitude towards veganism.
It's proven time and time again by scientists to be healthier overall.
If it were just a dietary choice, it'd be treated the same as vegetarianism is mostly. It's fine. It's just what you like.
That must explain why so many vegans rely on supplements.
‘Rely on supplements’? Do you have the research to back that up
This is the latest study I could find relatively quickly.
It's highlighted a few things. There are also links below to other studies.
It’s the word ‘rely’ that irks me as it suggests that vegans cannot live a healthy life without supplementation which is patently untrue. I’ve already acknowledged that a vegan diet may be deficient in some minor things but I would wager that your average person in the street that follows an omnivore diet is deficient in nutrients if they only live on chips and chicken nuggets. It’s quite simple, if you feed yourself shit, whichever diet you follow, you’re not going to be at your optimal health.
If you were to feed yourself shit you would have no problems with a vitamin B12 deficiency. B12 is formed by bacteria in the soil feeding on shit. Animals feed on unwashed plants so get a good amount of B12. We however wash our plant food before we eat it which is why so many people are deficient in B12 and not only vegans. But rather than eat soil and shit I do prefer to take a B12 supplement :-)
Completely understand you not eating animals, but eating stealth war planes is war planes is a bit extreme ain't it?
The problem isn't in eating stealth war planes - it's finding them.
Vegans often trot out a few athletes etc., Mo Farah being another high profile vegan, but there are many more athletes who are omnivores. What I know is this, in my old association there was 3/4 vegans, and during a heavy sparring/training session they were the ones who were always first to be blowing out their arses and always appeared to be the first to succumb to bugs/colds etc. For me this thread has been interesting and Ive learnt a lot about Veganism, and also what is available on the ever growing market for the same. Its apparent that there are certain benefits to a vegan diet, but conversely there are definite benefits to an omnivores diet. Im lucky, Ive trained for 38 years in the MA's which has kept me fit and healthy especially for someone my age now. Ive put enough in the fitness bank to be able to draw on it when needed. However, and because of my age and a few old fighting injuries, I have just taken a year off from training at a club, Ive been just doing light training every morning, but next January I will be back to training at a club, all my injuries have healed as well as they will. This thread has helped me change/focus on my diet and also look at potential ways of sustaining my energy without going back back to my standard food, things like changes to milk, using a vegan based 'milk', many more vegetables (asparagus done on the barbie is delicious and I can eat it by the handful), less red meat, I already eat a lot of fish, Im lucky my wife only cooks fresh produce, so our diet has naturally evolved, but there is always room for improvement. Yes its been a good pisstake at times on this thread, but seriously thanks for all the positive input from our Veggie and Vegan friends on here, Cheers.
Not a vegan one but I had portobello mushrooms filled with spinach and feta cheese and baked for breakfast again a recipe from the 8 week blood sugar diet recipe book that by previously (no longer) diabetic friend recommended. Lot of good recipes in that and it’s sequel.
Not a vegan one but I had portobello mushrooms filled with spinach and feta cheese and baked for breakfast again a recipe from the 8 week blood sugar diet recipe book that by previously (no longer) diabetic friend recommended. Lot of good recipes in that and it’s sequel.
Field mushrooms with garlic, breadcrumbs and parmasan cheese, with a drizzle of olive oil are nice and simple
Comments
‘Rely on supplements’? Do you have the research to back that up or is that really just your belief? Personally I only take a B Complex regularly and a Vit D supplement in the winter and that’s it. I’m perfectly healthy and have the medical records to prove it. To suggest that ‘many vegans’ can only maintain health through supplementation is, imo, bollocks. Maybe a crap vegan who lives on nothing but Oreos but for someone who eats a broad range of plant based foods it is easy to get the nutrients a human being needs to maintain prime health.
Besides, supplements aren’t just used by vegans or else Holland and Barrett would have gone out of business a long, long time ago.
I never once said it's impossible to be a healthy vegan without supplements, I dispute that scientists have proven "time and time again" that veganism is healthier.
" Most vegans consume enough B12 to avoid anemia and nervous system damage, but many do not get enough to minimize potential risk of heart disease or pregnancy complications."
Would seem to back up my suggestion that many - not all - vegans rely on supplements.
I'm also aware many non vegans require supplements, I take them myself, but then my diet is not something anyone should aspire to maintain!
It's highlighted a few things. There are also links below to other studies.
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/03/160322082046.htm
Apricot kernels are a long way from Tesco's brandy, that's for sure!
Right now it probably is if you are a turkey.
It’s the word ‘rely’ that irks me as it suggests that vegans cannot live a healthy life without supplementation which is patently untrue. I’ve already acknowledged that a vegan diet may be deficient in some minor things but I would wager that your average person in the street that follows an omnivore diet is deficient in nutrients if they only live on chips and chicken nuggets. It’s quite simple, if you feed yourself shit, whichever diet you follow, you’re not going to be at your optimal health.
B12 is formed by bacteria in the soil feeding on shit. Animals feed on unwashed plants so get a good amount of B12.
We however wash our plant food before we eat it which is why so many people are deficient in B12 and not only vegans.
But rather than eat soil and shit I do prefer to take a B12 supplement :-)
What I know is this, in my old association there was 3/4 vegans, and during a heavy sparring/training session they were the ones who were always first to be blowing out their arses and always appeared to be the first to succumb to bugs/colds etc.
For me this thread has been interesting and Ive learnt a lot about Veganism, and also what is available on the ever growing market for the same.
Its apparent that there are certain benefits to a vegan diet, but conversely there are definite benefits to an omnivores diet.
Im lucky, Ive trained for 38 years in the MA's which has kept me fit and healthy especially for someone my age now.
Ive put enough in the fitness bank to be able to draw on it when needed. However, and because of my age and a few old fighting injuries, I have just taken a year off from training at a club, Ive been just doing light training every morning, but next January I will be back to training at a club, all my injuries have healed as well as they will.
This thread has helped me change/focus on my diet and also look at potential ways of sustaining my energy without going back back to my standard food, things like changes to milk, using a vegan based 'milk', many more vegetables (asparagus done on the barbie is delicious and I can eat it by the handful), less red meat, I already eat a lot of fish, Im lucky my wife only cooks fresh produce, so our diet has naturally evolved, but there is always room for improvement.
Yes its been a good pisstake at times on this thread, but seriously thanks for all the positive input from our Veggie and Vegan friends on here, Cheers.