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The rise of the vegans.

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  • iaitch
    iaitch Posts: 10,229
    Asked a farmer how he prepares his chickens.

    'Nothing special' he said 'we just tell then they're going to die'.
  • SuedeAdidas
    SuedeAdidas Posts: 7,741
    How to goats get slaughtered?

    Whenever I get curry goat it seems like they must use a hand grenade up the arse. Shards of bone everywhere.
  • Big_Bad_World
    Big_Bad_World Posts: 5,859
    AddickUpNorth said:

    Sorry to burst your bubble Muttley but ‘humane slaughter’ is purely a term used to salve the conscience of the consumer, to try and make it seem like something ‘nice’ happens to the animal between stepping off the transporter wagon and ending up on a plate slathered in gravy. There is no humane way to take the life of an animal that wants to live.

    Mmmmmmm, meat and gravy.
  • DaveMehmet
    DaveMehmet Posts: 21,601
    SuedeAdidas said:

    How to goats get slaughtered?

    Whenever I get curry goat it seems like they must use a hand grenade up the arse. Shards of bone everywhere.

    You're kidding?
  • ValleyGary
    ValleyGary Posts: 37,979
    edited December 2018
    Kill the animal as quickly as possible. There are people around prepared to do that, and that’s fine with me, I’ll just do the buying and eating part. It’s like there’s people prepared to go down into the sewers to budge all the shit that clogs up. Would I enjoy my morning dump as much if I had to get down there and shift it, no, but as long as there are people that will, then I’ll keep enjoy doing it.
  • eaststandmike
    eaststandmike Posts: 14,956
    AddickUpNorth said:

    Sorry to burst your bubble Muttley but ‘humane slaughter’ is purely a term used to salve the conscience of the consumer, to try and make it seem like something ‘nice’ happens to the animal between stepping off the transporter wagon and ending up on a plate slathered in gravy. There is no humane way to take the life of an animal that wants to live.

    The counter argument to that though is the animal would not be alive in the first place if we did not eat it. They are bred to be slaughtered and eaten.
  • SuedeAdidas
    SuedeAdidas Posts: 7,741
    eaststandmike said:

    AddickUpNorth said:

    Sorry to burst your bubble Muttley but ‘humane slaughter’ is purely a term used to salve the conscience of the consumer, to try and make it seem like something ‘nice’ happens to the animal between stepping off the transporter wagon and ending up on a plate slathered in gravy. There is no humane way to take the life of an animal that wants to live.

    The counter argument to that though is the animal would not be alive in the first place if we did not eat it. They are bred to be slaughtered and eaten.
    But if they were never born they wouldn’t know the difference
  • AddickUpNorth
    AddickUpNorth Posts: 8,325
    eaststandmike said:

    AddickUpNorth said:

    Sorry to burst your bubble Muttley but ‘humane slaughter’ is purely a term used to salve the conscience of the consumer, to try and make it seem like something ‘nice’ happens to the animal between stepping off the transporter wagon and ending up on a plate slathered in gravy. There is no humane way to take the life of an animal that wants to live.

    The counter argument to that though is the animal would not be alive in the first place if we did not eat it. They are bred to be slaughtered and eaten.

    And I’m sure they’re very appreciative of being born into a life of horror, only to be slaughtered when they’re slightly older than babies. I’ve said before that I would rather see some animals die out than for them to be born into a life of hell.
  • eaststandmike
    eaststandmike Posts: 14,956
    AddickUpNorth said:

    eaststandmike said:

    AddickUpNorth said:

    Sorry to burst your bubble Muttley but ‘humane slaughter’ is purely a term used to salve the conscience of the consumer, to try and make it seem like something ‘nice’ happens to the animal between stepping off the transporter wagon and ending up on a plate slathered in gravy. There is no humane way to take the life of an animal that wants to live.

    The counter argument to that though is the animal would not be alive in the first place if we did not eat it. They are bred to be slaughtered and eaten.

    And I’m sure they’re very appreciative of being born into a life of horror, only to be slaughtered when they’re slightly older than babies. I’ve said before that I would rather see some animals die out than for them to be born into a life of hell.
    And there lies the crux of the debate on this thread. You would rather see animals die out and vanish as opposed to being slaughtered and eaten. And I would like the farmers to keep breeding the animals so I can eat and enjoy them.

  • Baldybonce
    Baldybonce Posts: 9,647
    AddickUpNorth said:

    eaststandmike said:

    AddickUpNorth said:

    Sorry to burst your bubble Muttley but ‘humane slaughter’ is purely a term used to salve the conscience of the consumer, to try and make it seem like something ‘nice’ happens to the animal between stepping off the transporter wagon and ending up on a plate slathered in gravy. There is no humane way to take the life of an animal that wants to live.

    The counter argument to that though is the animal would not be alive in the first place if we did not eat it. They are bred to be slaughtered and eaten.

    And I’m sure they’re very appreciative of being born into a life of horror, only to be slaughtered when they’re slightly older than babies. I’ve said before that I would rather see some animals die out than for them to be born into a life of hell.
    But surely standing about in a field with a sudden end is a lot less horrific than living in the wild and facing a grisly end at the jaws of the next predator up the food chain.
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  • AddickUpNorth
    AddickUpNorth Posts: 8,325
    Baldybonce said:

    AddickUpNorth said:

    eaststandmike said:

    AddickUpNorth said:

    Sorry to burst your bubble Muttley but ‘humane slaughter’ is purely a term used to salve the conscience of the consumer, to try and make it seem like something ‘nice’ happens to the animal between stepping off the transporter wagon and ending up on a plate slathered in gravy. There is no humane way to take the life of an animal that wants to live.

    The counter argument to that though is the animal would not be alive in the first place if we did not eat it. They are bred to be slaughtered and eaten.

    And I’m sure they’re very appreciative of being born into a life of horror, only to be slaughtered when they’re slightly older than babies. I’ve said before that I would rather see some animals die out than for them to be born into a life of hell.
    But surely standing about in a field with a sudden end is a lot less horrific than living in the wild and facing a grisly end at the jaws of the next predator up the food chain.

    Due to large scale animal agriculture the majority of animals don’t ‘stand around in a field’ for their short lives, happily munching grass before they skip off to the slaughterhouse. They live in horrible conditions. The sudden end as you call it isn’t always that sudden. Even when we have certain standards they’re not always adhered to and it’s not uncommon for the animal to have their throat slit whilst still conscious. Imagine hanging upside down, watching your blood splash on the floor as you feel your life slip away. As for your ‘predator’ suggestion I’m pretty certain that your average cow in Derbyshire or wherever will never come into contact with a lion.

  • Big_Bad_World
    Big_Bad_World Posts: 5,859
    AddickUpNorth said:

    Baldybonce said:

    AddickUpNorth said:

    eaststandmike said:

    AddickUpNorth said:

    Sorry to burst your bubble Muttley but ‘humane slaughter’ is purely a term used to salve the conscience of the consumer, to try and make it seem like something ‘nice’ happens to the animal between stepping off the transporter wagon and ending up on a plate slathered in gravy. There is no humane way to take the life of an animal that wants to live.

    The counter argument to that though is the animal would not be alive in the first place if we did not eat it. They are bred to be slaughtered and eaten.

    And I’m sure they’re very appreciative of being born into a life of horror, only to be slaughtered when they’re slightly older than babies. I’ve said before that I would rather see some animals die out than for them to be born into a life of hell.
    But surely standing about in a field with a sudden end is a lot less horrific than living in the wild and facing a grisly end at the jaws of the next predator up the food chain.

    Due to large scale animal agriculture the majority of animals don’t ‘stand around in a field’ for their short lives, happily munching grass before they skip off to the slaughterhouse. They live in horrible conditions. The sudden end as you call it isn’t always that sudden. Even when we have certain standards they’re not always adhered to and it’s not uncommon for the animal to have their throat slit whilst still conscious. Imagine hanging upside down, watching your blood splash on the floor as you feel your life slip away. As for your ‘predator’ suggestion I’m pretty certain that your average cow in Derbyshire or wherever will never come into contact with a lion.

    You're specifically describing Halal slaughter and I completely agree. Wholly barbaric.
  • Fiiish
    Fiiish Posts: 7,998
    Baldybonce said:

    AddickUpNorth said:

    eaststandmike said:

    AddickUpNorth said:

    Sorry to burst your bubble Muttley but ‘humane slaughter’ is purely a term used to salve the conscience of the consumer, to try and make it seem like something ‘nice’ happens to the animal between stepping off the transporter wagon and ending up on a plate slathered in gravy. There is no humane way to take the life of an animal that wants to live.

    The counter argument to that though is the animal would not be alive in the first place if we did not eat it. They are bred to be slaughtered and eaten.

    And I’m sure they’re very appreciative of being born into a life of horror, only to be slaughtered when they’re slightly older than babies. I’ve said before that I would rather see some animals die out than for them to be born into a life of hell.
    But surely standing about in a field with a sudden end is a lot less horrific than living in the wild and facing a grisly end at the jaws of the next predator up the food chain.
    Or be chewed up by a combine harvester collecting the ingredients for Linda McCartney sausages.

    Or have their habitats destroyed to make way for plants that go into the 102 varieties of vegan milk out there.

    Or have their rivers and homes poisoned by pesticide run off for growing vegetables.

    Animal slaughter involves first order animal death but any product that involves second or third order animal death can happily claim to be vegan.

    I actually have nothing against veganism and have from time to time practiced it, and I live a largely vegetarian diet anyway. Just get irritated by preachy posh morons preaching their diet like it's a religion and anthropomorphising animals like a 4 year old.
  • Stu_of_Kunming
    Stu_of_Kunming Posts: 17,117
    AddickUpNorth said:

    Baldybonce said:

    AddickUpNorth said:

    eaststandmike said:

    AddickUpNorth said:

    Sorry to burst your bubble Muttley but ‘humane slaughter’ is purely a term used to salve the conscience of the consumer, to try and make it seem like something ‘nice’ happens to the animal between stepping off the transporter wagon and ending up on a plate slathered in gravy. There is no humane way to take the life of an animal that wants to live.

    The counter argument to that though is the animal would not be alive in the first place if we did not eat it. They are bred to be slaughtered and eaten.

    And I’m sure they’re very appreciative of being born into a life of horror, only to be slaughtered when they’re slightly older than babies. I’ve said before that I would rather see some animals die out than for them to be born into a life of hell.
    But surely standing about in a field with a sudden end is a lot less horrific than living in the wild and facing a grisly end at the jaws of the next predator up the food chain.

    Due to large scale animal agriculture the majority of animals don’t ‘stand around in a field’ for their short lives, happily munching grass before they skip off to the slaughterhouse. They live in horrible conditions. The sudden end as you call it isn’t always that sudden. Even when we have certain standards they’re not always adhered to and it’s not uncommon for the animal to have their throat slit whilst still conscious. Imagine hanging upside down, watching your blood splash on the floor as you feel your life slip away. As for your ‘predator’ suggestion I’m pretty certain that your average cow in Derbyshire or wherever will never come into contact with a lion.

    That's exactly how it happens where I live, just swap slaughterhouse for village shed.
  • Dazzler21
    Dazzler21 Posts: 51,344
    edited December 2018
    Big_Bad_World said:

    AddickUpNorth said:

    Baldybonce said:

    AddickUpNorth said:

    eaststandmike said:

    AddickUpNorth said:

    Sorry to burst your bubble Muttley but ‘humane slaughter’ is purely a term used to salve the conscience of the consumer, to try and make it seem like something ‘nice’ happens to the animal between stepping off the transporter wagon and ending up on a plate slathered in gravy. There is no humane way to take the life of an animal that wants to live.

    The counter argument to that though is the animal would not be alive in the first place if we did not eat it. They are bred to be slaughtered and eaten.

    And I’m sure they’re very appreciative of being born into a life of horror, only to be slaughtered when they’re slightly older than babies. I’ve said before that I would rather see some animals die out than for them to be born into a life of hell.
    But surely standing about in a field with a sudden end is a lot less horrific than living in the wild and facing a grisly end at the jaws of the next predator up the food chain.

    Due to large scale animal agriculture the majority of animals don’t ‘stand around in a field’ for their short lives, happily munching grass before they skip off to the slaughterhouse. They live in horrible conditions. The sudden end as you call it isn’t always that sudden. Even when we have certain standards they’re not always adhered to and it’s not uncommon for the animal to have their throat slit whilst still conscious. Imagine hanging upside down, watching your blood splash on the floor as you feel your life slip away. As for your ‘predator’ suggestion I’m pretty certain that your average cow in Derbyshire or wherever will never come into contact with a lion.

    You're specifically describing Halal slaughter and I completely agree. Wholly barbaric.
    Kosher slaughter is similar isn't it? Neither stun the animal before slaughter and as such are conscious during the killing... Shouldn't vegans renounce Islam or Judaism? In fact the bible speaks of eating meat and fish... that's Christianity out the window too.

    Hinduism & Jainism are predominantly vegetarian, but this is only mandatory in Jainism.

    Obviously there are other religions, but I simply cannot be bothered to list all of them out... I will say though unless you're a Buddhist, whereby all life is sacred you can't be religious and a vegan.
  • AddickUpNorth
    AddickUpNorth Posts: 8,325
    edited December 2018
    I implore anyone who lives under the illusion that animals live a happy life before they skip off the slaughterhouse to be kissed to death by fairies to watch this. This is standard.

    https://youtu.be/Hl6l40N59yE
  • AddickUpNorth
    AddickUpNorth Posts: 8,325
    For the record - I am anything but a ‘posh moron’.
  • Big_Bad_World
    Big_Bad_World Posts: 5,859
    Dazzler21 said:

    Big_Bad_World said:

    AddickUpNorth said:

    Baldybonce said:

    AddickUpNorth said:

    eaststandmike said:

    AddickUpNorth said:

    Sorry to burst your bubble Muttley but ‘humane slaughter’ is purely a term used to salve the conscience of the consumer, to try and make it seem like something ‘nice’ happens to the animal between stepping off the transporter wagon and ending up on a plate slathered in gravy. There is no humane way to take the life of an animal that wants to live.

    The counter argument to that though is the animal would not be alive in the first place if we did not eat it. They are bred to be slaughtered and eaten.

    And I’m sure they’re very appreciative of being born into a life of horror, only to be slaughtered when they’re slightly older than babies. I’ve said before that I would rather see some animals die out than for them to be born into a life of hell.
    But surely standing about in a field with a sudden end is a lot less horrific than living in the wild and facing a grisly end at the jaws of the next predator up the food chain.

    Due to large scale animal agriculture the majority of animals don’t ‘stand around in a field’ for their short lives, happily munching grass before they skip off to the slaughterhouse. They live in horrible conditions. The sudden end as you call it isn’t always that sudden. Even when we have certain standards they’re not always adhered to and it’s not uncommon for the animal to have their throat slit whilst still conscious. Imagine hanging upside down, watching your blood splash on the floor as you feel your life slip away. As for your ‘predator’ suggestion I’m pretty certain that your average cow in Derbyshire or wherever will never come into contact with a lion.

    You're specifically describing Halal slaughter and I completely agree. Wholly barbaric.
    Kosher slaughter is similar isn't it? Neither stun the animal before slaughter and as such are conscious during the killing... Shouldn't vegans renounce Islam or Judaism? In fact the bible speaks of eating meat and fish... that's Christianity out the window too.

    Hinduism & Jainism are predominantly vegetarian, but this is only mandatory in Jainism.

    Obviously there are other religions, but I simply cannot be bothered to list all of them out... I will say though unless you're a Buddhist, whereby all life is sacred you can't be religious and a vegan.
    Vegans, like third wave feminists, wont denounce certain religions despite the huge contradiction of their aims/wants and the values espoused by religions.

    It's a really weird one.
  • ValleyGary
    ValleyGary Posts: 37,979
    Fiiish said:

    Baldybonce said:

    AddickUpNorth said:

    eaststandmike said:

    AddickUpNorth said:

    Sorry to burst your bubble Muttley but ‘humane slaughter’ is purely a term used to salve the conscience of the consumer, to try and make it seem like something ‘nice’ happens to the animal between stepping off the transporter wagon and ending up on a plate slathered in gravy. There is no humane way to take the life of an animal that wants to live.

    The counter argument to that though is the animal would not be alive in the first place if we did not eat it. They are bred to be slaughtered and eaten.

    And I’m sure they’re very appreciative of being born into a life of horror, only to be slaughtered when they’re slightly older than babies. I’ve said before that I would rather see some animals die out than for them to be born into a life of hell.
    But surely standing about in a field with a sudden end is a lot less horrific than living in the wild and facing a grisly end at the jaws of the next predator up the food chain.
    Or be chewed up by a combine harvester collecting the ingredients for Linda McCartney sausages.

    Or have their habitats destroyed to make way for plants that go into the 102 varieties of vegan milk out there.

    Or have their rivers and homes poisoned by pesticide run off for growing vegetables.

    Animal slaughter involves first order animal death but any product that involves second or third order animal death can happily claim to be vegan.

    Bingo.
  • AddickUpNorth
    AddickUpNorth Posts: 8,325
    Twenty minute documentary produced by Unilad so not a rabid animal rights organisation. Give it a watch if you get a chance.

    https://youtu.be/MkSzAxvEr_Y
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  • seth plum
    seth plum Posts: 53,448
    eaststandmike said:

    AddickUpNorth said:

    Sorry to burst your bubble Muttley but ‘humane slaughter’ is purely a term used to salve the conscience of the consumer, to try and make it seem like something ‘nice’ happens to the animal between stepping off the transporter wagon and ending up on a plate slathered in gravy. There is no humane way to take the life of an animal that wants to live.

    The counter argument to that though is the animal would not be alive in the first place if we did not eat it. They are bred to be slaughtered and eaten.
    I take your point about what humans breed many animals for, but it is not a counter argument to AUN.
    If in some weird scenario children were brought into the world to be abused, the argument that it is OK because without the abuse they would have been terminated does not work for me.
  • AddickUpNorth
    AddickUpNorth Posts: 8,325
    ValleyGary said:

    Fiiish said:

    Baldybonce said:

    AddickUpNorth said:

    eaststandmike said:

    AddickUpNorth said:

    Sorry to burst your bubble Muttley but ‘humane slaughter’ is purely a term used to salve the conscience of the consumer, to try and make it seem like something ‘nice’ happens to the animal between stepping off the transporter wagon and ending up on a plate slathered in gravy. There is no humane way to take the life of an animal that wants to live.

    The counter argument to that though is the animal would not be alive in the first place if we did not eat it. They are bred to be slaughtered and eaten.

    And I’m sure they’re very appreciative of being born into a life of horror, only to be slaughtered when they’re slightly older than babies. I’ve said before that I would rather see some animals die out than for them to be born into a life of hell.
    But surely standing about in a field with a sudden end is a lot less horrific than living in the wild and facing a grisly end at the jaws of the next predator up the food chain.
    Or be chewed up by a combine harvester collecting the ingredients for Linda McCartney sausages.

    Or have their habitats destroyed to make way for plants that go into the 102 varieties of vegan milk out there.

    Or have their rivers and homes poisoned by pesticide run off for growing vegetables.

    Animal slaughter involves first order animal death but any product that involves second or third order animal death can happily claim to be vegan.

    Bingo.

    It’s not really bingo though. I can see that Fiiish was trying his best to make vegans look like hypocrites for whatever reason but if we look at his points closely then I can quite easily turn around and say ‘people in glass houses’.
    I don’t deny that there are deaths caused by harvesting of fields so that I can eat those crops and yes it saddens me but I don’t have the answer on solving that issue. If that makes me a hypocrite I’ll just have to wear it. As for habitat destruction I’ll merely laugh at that. Animal agriculture is by far a greater destroyer of habitat than anything else, be it deforestation to graze those animals or to grow crops to feed those animals. There’s more about in the Unilad docu I posted above. Pesticides are a horrible fact of life but that is not solely a vegan issue. If you eat broccoli with your steak for instance are you not contributing to that pollution and it’s effect on habitat? I’d love to see a world where everything grown was organic.

    The fact is, being vegan isn’t about being perfect as it’s impossible to achieve that state. Veganism is about trying to cause the least amount of suffering and harm as viably possible and that’s what I try to adhere to. If I sometimes fail because of forces entirely beyond my control then I will just have to wear the hypocrite hat that some people would love for me to wear.

  • Fiiish
    Fiiish Posts: 7,998
    edited December 2018
    AddickUpNorth said:

    ValleyGary said:

    Fiiish said:

    Baldybonce said:

    AddickUpNorth said:

    eaststandmike said:

    AddickUpNorth said:

    Sorry to burst your bubble Muttley but ‘humane slaughter’ is purely a term used to salve the conscience of the consumer, to try and make it seem like something ‘nice’ happens to the animal between stepping off the transporter wagon and ending up on a plate slathered in gravy. There is no humane way to take the life of an animal that wants to live.

    The counter argument to that though is the animal would not be alive in the first place if we did not eat it. They are bred to be slaughtered and eaten.

    And I’m sure they’re very appreciative of being born into a life of horror, only to be slaughtered when they’re slightly older than babies. I’ve said before that I would rather see some animals die out than for them to be born into a life of hell.
    But surely standing about in a field with a sudden end is a lot less horrific than living in the wild and facing a grisly end at the jaws of the next predator up the food chain.
    Or be chewed up by a combine harvester collecting the ingredients for Linda McCartney sausages.

    Or have their habitats destroyed to make way for plants that go into the 102 varieties of vegan milk out there.

    Or have their rivers and homes poisoned by pesticide run off for growing vegetables.

    Animal slaughter involves first order animal death but any product that involves second or third order animal death can happily claim to be vegan.

    Bingo.

    It’s not really bingo though. I can see that Fiiish was trying his best to make vegans look like hypocrites for whatever reason but if we look at his points closely then I can quite easily turn around and say ‘people in glass houses’.
    I don’t deny that there are deaths caused by harvesting of fields so that I can eat those crops and yes it saddens me but I don’t have the answer on solving that issue. If that makes me a hypocrite I’ll just have to wear it. As for habitat destruction I’ll merely laugh at that. Animal agriculture is by far a greater destroyer of habitat than anything else, be it deforestation to graze those animals or to grow crops to feed those animals. There’s more about in the Unilad docu I posted above. Pesticides are a horrible fact of life but that is not solely a vegan issue. If you eat broccoli with your steak for instance are you not contributing to that pollution and it’s effect on habitat? I’d love to see a world where everything grown was organic.

    The fact is, being vegan isn’t about being perfect as it’s impossible to achieve that state. Veganism is about trying to cause the least amount of suffering and harm as viably possible and that’s what I try to adhere to. If I sometimes fail because of forces entirely beyond my control then I will just have to wear the hypocrite hat that some people would love for me to wear.

    That wasn't really the point I was driving home though.

    Firstly I will agree industrialised slaughter and the cruelty in the dairy/egg industry is totally unnecessary. I avoid supermarket produce where possible and make use of my local farm shop or know the source behind any animal produce. I'm not 100% perfect in this regard but I make a conscious effort.

    It is more the grey areas that exist. There is no set code of ethics or humanity so for someone to get their high-horse and proclaim someone else as unethical or inhumane grates me. Especially since there are plenty of parts of a normal vegan diet that some may not consider 100% ethical.

    I honestly do not care what someone chooses to put on or omit from their plate but do not for one second assume you are any better a person than me on the basis of your beliefs. As you said yourself: people in glass houses. I'm sure that posh tart who was calling a farmer and his customers psychopathic isn't entirely beyond reproach.
  • Dazzler21
    Dazzler21 Posts: 51,344
    Watched that video before and whilst very sad
    AddickUpNorth said:

    Twenty minute documentary produced by Unilad so not a rabid animal rights organisation. Give it a watch if you get a chance.

    https://youtu.be/MkSzAxvEr_Y

    Lol so having pets and caring for them is wrong according to this one.
  • Scoham
    Scoham Posts: 37,376
    Vegans last longer - discuss

  • ValleyGary
    ValleyGary Posts: 37,979
    Scoham said:

    Vegans last longer - discuss

    Cucumber up the bum. Does that count?
  • Anna_Kissed
    Anna_Kissed Posts: 3,302
  • nth_london_addick
    nth_london_addick Posts: 35,919
    Anna_Kissed said:

    Dunno about that my wife cooks a great Christmas dinner , well worth the suffering of a few fat turkeys
  • Arsenetatters
    Arsenetatters Posts: 5,975
    nth london addick said:

    Anna_Kissed said:

    Dunno about that my wife cooks a great Christmas dinner , well worth the suffering of a few fat turkeys
    I took part in a turkey rescue last year and now have 4 at home. I've never kept turkeys before but they are beautiful creatures - inquisitive and gentle.
  • seth plum
    seth plum Posts: 53,448
    There is a reason why people use the phrase 'Turkey's don't vote for Christmas', and it isn't because they're going to get a rubbish jumper as a present.

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