M&S do non-chicken chicken kievs which are more than decent but if you’re not a fan of garlic you’re maybe better off giving them a miss. Definitely not suitable for vampires.
I don’t think we’ll ever really find the cause of Covid 19, it may not have been the eating of an infected bat @Dazzler21 so in that respect I agree with your post. What can’t be denied is that intensive animal agriculture is undoubtedly creating problems for the future. I’ve posted a video for you to watch (it’s just over six minutes long so not too time consuming) from a vegan activist called Earthling Ed. He’s a ‘gentle’ activist who doesn’t talk with fire and brimstone so he shouldn’t be too hard going for you. The message he is conveying about antibiotic resistance should be listened to. I hope you find the time to give it a go.
One thing I do hope that comes about through Covid 19 is the end of the barbaric practice of fur farming. The problems experienced in Denmark with mink were problems that could’ve been fully avoided if fur farming had been consigned to the distant past. Unless you’re an Inuit or similar there is absolutely no reason for any human being to wear the fur of another species. It’s fucking gross.
I agree and it makes me so angry the arrogance and ignorance of some. I often think I should carry a pot of paint and accidentally spill it on them.
I’ve also never been able to get my head around women walking a dog while wearing a fur coat, can they not see the hypocrisy?
The hypocrisy of someone loving a pet whilst putting another animal through a life of forced pregnancy and child stripping then death is cognitive dissonance
M&S do non-chicken chicken kievs which are more than decent but if you’re not a fan of garlic you’re maybe better off giving them a miss. Definitely not suitable for vampires.
Like you say, hard to argue against the hypocrisy of us meat eaters and what he is saying. But that goes on not just with food to be fair.
How many vegans drive a car or ride a bike that has tyres made with animal fat (animal derived stearic acid) in them or leather seats/steering wheel/saddles etc? How many wear leather shoes? We had a lad at my old work who was Vegan and liked to tell us the error of our ways every time we ate a ham sandwich or similar at our desks, he cycled, wore leather shoes (both on his bike and office shoes), a leather belt, a leather wallet....... and guess what his £250 saddle was made from and handlebar tape! Thats before you get onto the BMW he had. Really he wasn't a Vegan but someone who chose not to consume anything derived from animals, meat or otherwise.
I admire true vegans as it must effect every single part of your life from eating, washing, what you buy, ride, drive, must be extremely hard but fair play if you truly manage to do that as I think i'd struggle purely on the food/drink consumption part.
I pretty much gave up red meat during the BSE crisis and became a fully signed up veggie a year or so after that.
We don't preach to anyone but meat eaters usually want to discuss diet and we will engage.
The only time I get animated really is when someone claims to be a vegetarian but eats fish or the occasional bacon butty. Same would go for someone claiming to be a vegan that wears leather.
If someone wants to eat fish, that's their choice but ffs don't claim to be a vegetarian, it makes life more difficult for a vegetarian. The times that I have been in a restaurant and fish dishes are included under the vegetarian section in the menu is ridiculous. This breaks no laws either.
You are are either a vegetarian or vegan or your aren't.
I would love it if the whole world stopped eating animals but life to too short to campaign for it, it won't happen in any of our lifetimes.
Correct.
Vegetarian and Vegans do so from an animal wellbeing pov.
I am currently on a primarily plant based diet whilst still having some dairy products and eggs. I'd like to think I'll leave these behind one day, but we'll see.
Vegetarianism is the same as meat eating, the dairy industry is directly connected to the slaughter of animals and is the most violent industry on earth... Cows only produce milk because that have calves, those calves are taken from the mother so humans can drink the milk, often with cows running after the vehicles stealing their calves away, Bobby calves are slaughtered for veal and when spent the mothers are killed for meat... As a vegetarian you are paying into the same system of slaughter of innocent beings.
M&S do non-chicken chicken kievs which are more than decent but if you’re not a fan of garlic you’re maybe better off giving them a miss. Definitely not suitable for vampires.
Garlic is the whole point of a kiev isn't it
Well yeah but bloody hell, there’s garlic and then there’s GARLIC.
Like you say, hard to argue against the hypocrisy of us meat eaters and what he is saying. But that goes on not just with food to be fair.
How many vegans drive a car or ride a bike that has tyres made with animal fat (animal derived stearic acid) in them or leather seats/steering wheel/saddles etc? How many wear leather shoes? We had a lad at my old work who was Vegan and liked to tell us the error of our ways every time we ate a ham sandwich or similar at our desks, he cycled, wore leather shoes (both on his bike and office shoes), a leather belt, a leather wallet....... and guess what his £250 saddle was made from and handlebar tape! Thats before you get onto the BMW he had. Really he wasn't a Vegan but someone who chose not to consume anything derived from animals, meat or otherwise.
I admire true vegans as it must effect every single part of your life from eating, washing, what you buy, ride, drive, must be extremely hard but fair play if you truly manage to do that as I think i'd struggle purely on the food/drink consumption part.
I pretty much gave up red meat during the BSE crisis and became a fully signed up veggie a year or so after that.
We don't preach to anyone but meat eaters usually want to discuss diet and we will engage.
The only time I get animated really is when someone claims to be a vegetarian but eats fish or the occasional bacon butty. Same would go for someone claiming to be a vegan that wears leather.
If someone wants to eat fish, that's their choice but ffs don't claim to be a vegetarian, it makes life more difficult for a vegetarian. The times that I have been in a restaurant and fish dishes are included under the vegetarian section in the menu is ridiculous. This breaks no laws either.
You are are either a vegetarian or vegan or your aren't.
I would love it if the whole world stopped eating animals but life to too short to campaign for it, it won't happen in any of our lifetimes.
Correct.
Vegetarian and Vegans do so from an animal wellbeing pov.
I am currently on a primarily plant based diet whilst still having some dairy products and eggs. I'd like to think I'll leave these behind one day, but we'll see.
Vegetarianism is the same as meat eating, the dairy industry is directly connected to the slaughter of animals and is the most violent industry on earth... Cows only produce milk because that have calves, those calves are taken from the mother so humans can drink the milk, often with cows running after the vehicles stealing their calves away, Bobby calves are slaughtered for veal and when spent the mothers are killed for meat... As a vegetarian you are paying into the same system of slaughter of innocent beings.
Whilst I see and agree with your argument, as it is a major contributing factor in me changing my eating protocol.
Had I been brought up without any of these products in my diet, I am sure it'd have been no problem for me to never consume them. As it is however you have to allow people time to change life formed habits. For most it will not be an overnight change.
To attack people with the same guilt tripping even when they're clearly working on their food choices is why some Vegans get such a bad rep. Some change is immediate, most takes time.
As I have stated on the last page I have given up all meat over the last few months, I also haven't drunk milk in over a year (I used to drink a pint a day!) and am working on removing cheese too however that is a point of struggle for me at the moment and there isn't a decent alternative yet. It doesn't mean I won't get cheese off my plate before there is a decent alternative as I am already heavily reducing the amount used.
Out of interest Mascot how long have you been Vegan? What was your penny drop moment? Did the change happen over night? How have you handled the reduction of vitamin B12? Did you have any issues with the drop in Calcium, Iron and Zinc? What did you do to combat any nutritional deficiencies? At what point did you decide to start attacking other people's personal eating protocols because I note it has been a fairly recent thing on here?
If I reach an entirely plant based diet, I can guarantee you I will only be telling people of the benefits I have felt and how it can benefit them. Not of why they should feel guilt about their current diet as that just triggers a defensive reaction.
It doesn't mean that I don't care for the animals, it just means I know not to attack people to get them to take my side. You win people over with kindness.
Some who know me would say that I was pretty militant at one stage and I can kind of agree looking back. I’m pretty certain I’d be embarrassed by some of the memes I posted on my Facebook page a few years ago if I could be bothered to check. My desire to open the eyes of others to the horrors of the meat and dairy industry caused me to try and batter others into submission which looking back had zero effect in reality. Since I adopted a more gentler approach (and to be honest being angry all the time was exhausting mentally and emotionally) I feel that I have made a bit of a difference if only in a small way. Work colleagues now ask my advice on making changes to a more plant based diet, ask me about the truth of what happens to animals. They listen more because they know they can have a reasonable conversation instead of being berated. They know that I don’t necessarily think they’re a bad person for the choices they make. In the eyes of some vegans I know this approach will lead me to be seen as ‘not vegan enough’ but changes in the hearts and minds of others have never been made through hostility and belittling.
Hey fair enough mate... Im not judging, it's everyones individual journey I am just pointing out facts, on a vegan thread.
It might also be to do with what made me become a vegan... I've only been vegan for 10 months, I watched a guy on you tube called Joey Carbstrong who would debate people on the street, and after about 3 hrs of watching the guy I was totally on his side and it was utterly clear to me that I couldn't continue to do anything other than go vegan, it was a moment of 'well that's off then'.
I then watched dominion and a load of other fucking horrible shows that give you stark reality Of what I was paying into, it was no longer an option for me, line in the sand.
Once you reach that point it's easy, because there is no other option, or it certainly was for me, it's a joy, I feel like I've done and doing sonething really cool.
B12, I took vitamins anyway, I drink green powder to alkaline my system.
I eat great, BOSH are so good for recipes, curries, pasta, fruit, I mean pizza, burgers, ice cream cream, chocolate its all there, even snitzels, chicken nuggets, sausage rolls... It's a booming industry now, just takes some thought and maybe job a Facebook groups get some help.
Challenge 22 is a group that helps you go for 22 days to create a habit
I found it really easy as my ethics are rock solid.
Im cooking 25% more and I used to batch cook anyway, so there is more effort there, but I love that, my actions are directly not contributing to the death of innocent beings.
My mind body and soul are aligned, best thing I've done.
I appreciate other people's journeys are different and I'll say it again, no judgement, just facts, your journey is yours and yours alone.
Maybe watch hours of footage of the horrors, that might do it... Earthling Ed, joey Carbstrong, anonymous for the voiceless, all good places to watch content.
Hey fair enough mate... Im not judging, it's everyones individual journey I am just pointing out facts, on a vegan thread.
It might also be to do with what made me become a vegan... I've only been vegan for 10 months, I watched a guy on you tube called Joey Carbstrong who would debate people on the street, and after about 3 hrs of watching the guy I was totally on his side and it was utterly clear to me that I couldn't continue to do anything other than go vegan, it was a moment of 'well that's off then'.
I then watched dominion and a load of other fucking horrible shows that give you stark reality Of what I was paying into, it was no longer an option for me, line in the sand.
Once you reach that point it's easy, because there is no other option, or it certainly was for me, it's a joy, I feel like I've done and doing sonething really cool.
B12, I took vitamins anyway, I drink green powder to alkaline my system.
I eat great, BOSH are so good for recipes, curries, pasta, fruit, I mean pizza, burgers, ice cream cream, chocolate its all there, even snitzels, chicken nuggets, sausage rolls... It's a booming industry now, just takes some thought and maybe job a Facebook groups get some help.
Challenge 22 is a group that helps you go for 22 days to create a habit
I found it really easy as my ethics are rock solid.
Im cooking 25% more and I used to batch cook anyway, so there is more effort there, but I love that, my actions are directly not contributing to the death of innocent beings.
My mind body and soul are aligned, best thing I've done.
I appreciate other people's journeys are different and I'll say it again, no judgement, just facts, your journey is yours and yours alone.
Maybe watch hours of footage of the horrors, that might do it... Earthling Ed, joey Carbstrong, anonymous for the voiceless, all good places to watch content.
A lot of people are open to change and there has been a sizable change in eating habits. If we want to provide enough food for the planet we have to change. My main concern is we don't destroy the planet and we have enough food to feed people.
Hey fair enough mate... Im not judging, it's everyones individual journey I am just pointing out facts, on a vegan thread.
It might also be to do with what made me become a vegan... I've only been vegan for 10 months, I watched a guy on you tube called Joey Carbstrong who would debate people on the street, and after about 3 hrs of watching the guy I was totally on his side and it was utterly clear to me that I couldn't continue to do anything other than go vegan, it was a moment of 'well that's off then'.
I then watched dominion and a load of other fucking horrible shows that give you stark reality Of what I was paying into, it was no longer an option for me, line in the sand.
Once you reach that point it's easy, because there is no other option, or it certainly was for me, it's a joy, I feel like I've done and doing sonething really cool.
B12, I took vitamins anyway, I drink green powder to alkaline my system.
I eat great, BOSH are so good for recipes, curries, pasta, fruit, I mean pizza, burgers, ice cream cream, chocolate its all there, even snitzels, chicken nuggets, sausage rolls... It's a booming industry now, just takes some thought and maybe job a Facebook groups get some help.
Challenge 22 is a group that helps you go for 22 days to create a habit
I found it really easy as my ethics are rock solid.
Im cooking 25% more and I used to batch cook anyway, so there is more effort there, but I love that, my actions are directly not contributing to the death of innocent beings.
My mind body and soul are aligned, best thing I've done.
I appreciate other people's journeys are different and I'll say it again, no judgement, just facts, your journey is yours and yours alone.
Maybe watch hours of footage of the horrors, that might do it... Earthling Ed, joey Carbstrong, anonymous for the voiceless, all good places to watch content.
Thanks for the response.
The moment that stopped me eating red meat wasn't watching anything horrific... It was hearing my Mother In Law explain why she only eats Rose Veal beef, like it was something honourable!
I remember her words 'It's so much better to eat rose veal becaus the male calves aren't being wasted'. It reminded me of why I haven't ever really eaten Lamb growing up. I disagreed with the age of slaughter. It was obvious for veal and lamb but I was surprised after doing some research, that showed most animals are older than Lamb or veal when slaughtered, but they are still juvenile and that made me look inwards.
I must call out Game Changers on Netflix too. That has heavily lent itself from a fitness perspective to me making changes. I must watch that again! Hearing James on Joe Rogan debunking every challenge made about the documentary was inspiring too. He had all the science to back up his research that was shared in the documentary.
Hey fair enough mate... Im not judging, it's everyones individual journey I am just pointing out facts, on a vegan thread.
It might also be to do with what made me become a vegan... I've only been vegan for 10 months, I watched a guy on you tube called Joey Carbstrong who would debate people on the street, and after about 3 hrs of watching the guy I was totally on his side and it was utterly clear to me that I couldn't continue to do anything other than go vegan, it was a moment of 'well that's off then'.
I then watched dominion and a load of other fucking horrible shows that give you stark reality Of what I was paying into, it was no longer an option for me, line in the sand.
Once you reach that point it's easy, because there is no other option, or it certainly was for me, it's a joy, I feel like I've done and doing sonething really cool.
B12, I took vitamins anyway, I drink green powder to alkaline my system.
I eat great, BOSH are so good for recipes, curries, pasta, fruit, I mean pizza, burgers, ice cream cream, chocolate its all there, even snitzels, chicken nuggets, sausage rolls... It's a booming industry now, just takes some thought and maybe job a Facebook groups get some help.
Challenge 22 is a group that helps you go for 22 days to create a habit
I found it really easy as my ethics are rock solid.
Im cooking 25% more and I used to batch cook anyway, so there is more effort there, but I love that, my actions are directly not contributing to the death of innocent beings.
My mind body and soul are aligned, best thing I've done.
I appreciate other people's journeys are different and I'll say it again, no judgement, just facts, your journey is yours and yours alone.
Maybe watch hours of footage of the horrors, that might do it... Earthling Ed, joey Carbstrong, anonymous for the voiceless, all good places to watch content.
Thanks for the response.
The moment that stopped me eating red meat wasn't watching anything horrific... It was hearing my Mother In Law explain why she only eats Rose Veal beef, like it was something honourable!
I remember her words 'It's so much better to eat rose veal becaus the male calves aren't being wasted'. It reminded me of why I haven't ever really eaten Lamb growing up. I disagreed with the age of slaughter. It was obvious for veal and lamb but I was surprised after doing some research, that showed most animals are older than Lamb or veal when slaughtered, but they are still juvenile and that made me look inwards.
More and more people are turning against meat - happening more rapidly than I expected.
Hey fair enough mate... Im not judging, it's everyones individual journey I am just pointing out facts, on a vegan thread.
It might also be to do with what made me become a vegan... I've only been vegan for 10 months, I watched a guy on you tube called Joey Carbstrong who would debate people on the street, and after about 3 hrs of watching the guy I was totally on his side and it was utterly clear to me that I couldn't continue to do anything other than go vegan, it was a moment of 'well that's off then'.
I then watched dominion and a load of other fucking horrible shows that give you stark reality Of what I was paying into, it was no longer an option for me, line in the sand.
Once you reach that point it's easy, because there is no other option, or it certainly was for me, it's a joy, I feel like I've done and doing sonething really cool.
B12, I took vitamins anyway, I drink green powder to alkaline my system.
I eat great, BOSH are so good for recipes, curries, pasta, fruit, I mean pizza, burgers, ice cream cream, chocolate its all there, even snitzels, chicken nuggets, sausage rolls... It's a booming industry now, just takes some thought and maybe job a Facebook groups get some help.
Challenge 22 is a group that helps you go for 22 days to create a habit
I found it really easy as my ethics are rock solid.
Im cooking 25% more and I used to batch cook anyway, so there is more effort there, but I love that, my actions are directly not contributing to the death of innocent beings.
My mind body and soul are aligned, best thing I've done.
I appreciate other people's journeys are different and I'll say it again, no judgement, just facts, your journey is yours and yours alone.
Maybe watch hours of footage of the horrors, that might do it... Earthling Ed, joey Carbstrong, anonymous for the voiceless, all good places to watch content.
Thanks for the response.
The moment that stopped me eating red meat wasn't watching anything horrific... It was hearing my Mother In Law explain why she only eats Rose Veal beef, like it was something honourable!
I remember her words 'It's so much better to eat rose veal becaus the male calves aren't being wasted'. It reminded me of why I haven't ever really eaten Lamb growing up. I disagreed with the age of slaughter. It was obvious for veal and lamb but I was surprised after doing some research, that showed most animals are older than Lamb or veal when slaughtered, but they are still juvenile and that made me look inwards.
I must call out Game Changers on Netflix too. That has heavily lent itself from a fitness perspective to me making changes. I must watch that again! Hearing James on Joe Rogan debunking every challenge made about the documentary was inspiring too. He had all the science to back up his research that was shared in the documentary.
I love Joe Rogan... It's like sitting round and getting stoned with your mates... I havnt watched game changers as it goes... but I've heard there is some iffy claims made in that show.
I see the health angle as more of plant based diet as opposed to a vegan ethos, where the diet is a by product.
What's the consensus of opinion on the use use of Down?
I use quite a lot of ethically sourced Polish goose down but know a lot comes from live plucked birds.
For me it’s a no, even if the geese gently plucked themselves and gladly handed over their feathers. I just can’t contemplate wearing anything that once came from a sentient being. Before anyone asks I don’t wear leather shoes.
What's the consensus of opinion on the use use of Down?
I use quite a lot of ethically sourced Polish goose down but know a lot comes from live plucked birds.
For me it’s a no, even if the geese gently plucked themselves and gladly handed over their feathers. I just can’t contemplate wearing anything that once came from a sentient being. Before anyone asks I don’t wear leather shoes.
What would you do with all the leather goods in existence? A lot of vegan clothing items don't seem that great for the environment given the use of plastics.
What's the consensus of opinion on the use use of Down?
I use quite a lot of ethically sourced Polish goose down but know a lot comes from live plucked birds.
For me it’s a no, even if the geese gently plucked themselves and gladly handed over their feathers. I just can’t contemplate wearing anything that once came from a sentient being. Before anyone asks I don’t wear leather shoes.
What would you do with all the leather goods in existence? A lot of vegan clothing items don't seem that great for the environment given the use of plastics.
It's such a complicated area!
Therein lies the problem hoof_it, it appears that modern living is ultimately damaging to the planet. Since the industrial revolution man has found various ways to wreak havoc even in the name of progress. Personally it is a problem. I won’t wear leather or any animal derivative because it goes against my ethics but the alternatives are also not without cost as you rightly point out. I read an article earlier about cobalt mining which highlighted the cost of that. I don’t want to think that I am in any way responsible for child labour yet here I am typing on a device that has it in its battery. The push for a move to all electric cars will surely exacerbate that particular problem. It’s too late for us to put the genie back in the bottle and move back into caves yet I have no answer as to how to make the future entirely clean. No wonder modern life feels to be bad for my peace of mind.
What's the consensus of opinion on the use use of Down?
I use quite a lot of ethically sourced Polish goose down but know a lot comes from live plucked birds.
For me it’s a no, even if the geese gently plucked themselves and gladly handed over their feathers. I just can’t contemplate wearing anything that once came from a sentient being. Before anyone asks I don’t wear leather shoes.
What would you do with all the leather goods in existence? A lot of vegan clothing items don't seem that great for the environment given the use of plastics.
It's such a complicated area!
I wouldn't buy any animal products since turning 2 years ago but I have had my leather belt forever and I wont be replacing it any time soon. Regardless of my stance I am not in the habit of wasting something I once paid for. I think alternatives will only get better with time and innovation.
You can't be 100% vegan unless you withdraw from the modern world. Some compromise has to be made.
I think for me, not only is it about what I eat but what I wear and use.
To some extent you have a point but I try go with the adage, not knowingly eat, wear or use anything that has exploited animals, of course at the same time this may let me off the hook.
So, a need to be vigilant is called upon in my own understanding.
Serious question, would you guys not visit a friends house that had leather sofa of get in a car with leather seats?
No right or wrong answers, just curious.
Yes, I would, just as I eat at a table where people are eating meat. I just try to live my life as authentically as possible according to my own ethics.
What I hate (and I've said this before) is people making remarks about their non-vegan lifestyle in a joking way while I'm there - 'oh I'm eating turkey for xmas, sorry Al' etc. Just as I don't point out the lump of dead meat on their plate I don't expect to become a figure of fun for my beliefs.
I started going to a Buddhist group a couple of years ago. As well as most of them being vegan, they also enjoy a simpler, less consumer led lifestyle which fits with my beliefs. It's such a relief to spend time with them. It's where I feel most comfortable and accepted.
Serious question, would you guys not visit a friends house that had leather sofa of get in a car with leather seats?
No right or wrong answers, just curious.
Yes, I would, just as I eat at a table where people are eating meat. I just try to live my life as authentically as possible according to my own ethics.
What I hate (and I've said this before) is people making remarks about their non-vegan lifestyle in a joking way while I'm there - 'oh I'm eating turkey for xmas, sorry Al' etc. Just as I don't point out the lump of dead meat on their plate I don't expect to become a figure of fun for my beliefs.
I started going to a Buddhist group a couple of years ago. As well as most of them being vegan, they also enjoy a simpler, less consumer led lifestyle which fits with my beliefs. It's such a relief to spend time with them. It's where I feel most comfortable and accepted.
I had similar for a while when I went tea total, they soon got bored of the ribbing after a while.
Serious question, would you guys not visit a friends house that had leather sofa of get in a car with leather seats?
No right or wrong answers, just curious.
Yes, I would, just as I eat at a table where people are eating meat. I just try to live my life as authentically as possible according to my own ethics.
What I hate (and I've said this before) is people making remarks about their non-vegan lifestyle in a joking way while I'm there - 'oh I'm eating turkey for xmas, sorry Al' etc. Just as I don't point out the lump of dead meat on their plate I don't expect to become a figure of fun for my beliefs.
I started going to a Buddhist group a couple of years ago. As well as most of them being vegan, they also enjoy a simpler, less consumer led lifestyle which fits with my beliefs. It's such a relief to spend time with them. It's where I feel most comfortable and accepted.
I had similar for a while when I went tea total, they soon got bored of the ribbing after a while.
If you do anything outside of the norm it invariably bothers some people who then feel obliged to make 'humorous' comments for months/years which get even less funny with repetition. I'm never clear what response they expect?
I remember as a kid in the 70s getting my ears pierced which was just too much for some people - they seemed to feel obliged to pass comment on my appearance.
I love the stick I get... It can be silly and fun... And afterwards they listen to you as you've taken the light hearted banter well. For me it's letting people go through their process.
I think it's important to remember that everyone journey is THEIRS and theirs alone. Kicking off getting judgemental will only alienate, but I will express my truth if asked with the caveat that ' you've asked so I'll tell you' I never start the conversation.
The extremes on not going to someone house because they have a leather sofa seems a bit silly to me, the ethos is 'as far as possible' so obviously as a vegan you wouldn't buy a leather sofa, but disconnecting from society isn't the way to go IMHO.
This is about people making different choices moving forward.
Also I'd just like to say thanks that this thread is here, it's been a good discussion without too much heat.
I love the stick I get... It can be silly and fun... And afterwards they listen to you as you've taken the light hearted banter well. For me it's letting people go through their process.
I think it's important to remember that everyone journey is THEIRS and theirs alone. Kicking off getting judgemental will only alienate, but I will express my truth if asked with the caveat that ' you've asked so I'll tell you' I never start the conversation.
The extremes on not going to someone house because they have a leather sofa seems a bit silly to me, the ethos is 'as far as possible' so obviously as a vegan you wouldn't buy a leather sofa, but disconnecting from society isn't the way to go IMHO.
This is about people making different choices moving forward.
Also I'd just like to say thanks that this thread is here, it's been a good discussion without too much heat.
Some banter can be fun and some is just plain tedious - I suppose it depends on the intent.
Comments
Well yeah but bloody hell, there’s garlic and then there’s GARLIC.
Had I been brought up without any of these products in my diet, I am sure it'd have been no problem for me to never consume them. As it is however you have to allow people time to change life formed habits. For most it will not be an overnight change.
To attack people with the same guilt tripping even when they're clearly working on their food choices is why some Vegans get such a bad rep. Some change is immediate, most takes time.
As I have stated on the last page I have given up all meat over the last few months, I also haven't drunk milk in over a year (I used to drink a pint a day!) and am working on removing cheese too however that is a point of struggle for me at the moment and there isn't a decent alternative yet. It doesn't mean I won't get cheese off my plate before there is a decent alternative as I am already heavily reducing the amount used.
Out of interest Mascot how long have you been Vegan?
What was your penny drop moment?
Did the change happen over night?
How have you handled the reduction of vitamin B12?
Did you have any issues with the drop in Calcium, Iron and Zinc?
What did you do to combat any nutritional deficiencies?
At what point did you decide to start attacking other people's personal eating protocols because I note it has been a fairly recent thing on here?
If I reach an entirely plant based diet, I can guarantee you I will only be telling people of the benefits I have felt and how it can benefit them. Not of why they should feel guilt about their current diet as that just triggers a defensive reaction.
It doesn't mean that I don't care for the animals, it just means I know not to attack people to get them to take my side. You win people over with kindness.
It might also be to do with what made me become a vegan... I've only been vegan for 10 months, I watched a guy on you tube called Joey Carbstrong who would debate people on the street, and after about 3 hrs of watching the guy I was totally on his side and it was utterly clear to me that I couldn't continue to do anything other than go vegan, it was a moment of 'well that's off then'.
I then watched dominion and a load of other fucking horrible shows that give you stark reality Of what I was paying into, it was no longer an option for me, line in the sand.
Once you reach that point it's easy, because there is no other option, or it certainly was for me, it's a joy, I feel like I've done and doing sonething really cool.
B12, I took vitamins anyway, I drink green powder to alkaline my system.
I eat great, BOSH are so good for recipes, curries, pasta, fruit, I mean pizza, burgers, ice cream cream, chocolate its all there, even snitzels, chicken nuggets, sausage rolls... It's a booming industry now, just takes some thought and maybe job a Facebook groups get some help.
Challenge 22 is a group that helps you go for 22 days to create a habit
I found it really easy as my ethics are rock solid.
Im cooking 25% more and I used to batch cook anyway, so there is more effort there, but I love that, my actions are directly not contributing to the death of innocent beings.
My mind body and soul are aligned, best thing I've done.
I appreciate other people's journeys are different and I'll say it again, no judgement, just facts, your journey is yours and yours alone.
Maybe watch hours of footage of the horrors, that might do it... Earthling Ed, joey Carbstrong, anonymous for the voiceless, all good places to watch content.
The moment that stopped me eating red meat wasn't watching anything horrific... It was hearing my Mother In Law explain why she only eats Rose Veal beef, like it was something honourable!
I remember her words 'It's so much better to eat rose veal becaus the male calves aren't being wasted'. It reminded me of why I haven't ever really eaten Lamb growing up. I disagreed with the age of slaughter. It was obvious for veal and lamb but I was surprised after doing some research, that showed most animals are older than Lamb or veal when slaughtered, but they are still juvenile and that made me look inwards.
I must call out Game Changers on Netflix too. That has heavily lent itself from a fitness perspective to me making changes. I must watch that again! Hearing James on Joe Rogan debunking every challenge made about the documentary was inspiring too. He had all the science to back up his research that was shared in the documentary.
I see the health angle as more of plant based diet as opposed to a vegan ethos, where the diet is a by product.
I use quite a lot of ethically sourced Polish goose down but know a lot comes from live plucked birds.
For me it’s a no, even if the geese gently plucked themselves and gladly handed over their feathers. I just can’t contemplate wearing anything that once came from a sentient being. Before anyone asks I don’t wear leather shoes.
It's such a complicated area!
Therein lies the problem hoof_it, it appears that modern living is ultimately damaging to the planet. Since the industrial revolution man has found various ways to wreak havoc even in the name of progress. Personally it is a problem. I won’t wear leather or any animal derivative because it goes against my ethics but the alternatives are also not without cost as you rightly point out. I read an article earlier about cobalt mining which highlighted the cost of that. I don’t want to think that I am in any way responsible for child labour yet here I am typing on a device that has it in its battery. The push for a move to all electric cars will surely exacerbate that particular problem. It’s too late for us to put the genie back in the bottle and move back into caves yet I have no answer as to how to make the future entirely clean. No wonder modern life feels to be bad for my peace of mind.
I think alternatives will only get better with time and innovation.
To some extent you have a point but I try go with the adage, not knowingly eat, wear or use anything that has exploited animals, of course at the same time this may let me off the hook.
So, a need to be vigilant is called upon in my own understanding.
I remember as a kid in the 70s getting my ears pierced which was just too much for some people - they seemed to feel obliged to pass comment on my appearance.
I think it's important to remember that everyone journey is THEIRS and theirs alone. Kicking off getting judgemental will only alienate, but I will express my truth if asked with the caveat that ' you've asked so I'll tell you' I never start the conversation.
The extremes on not going to someone house because they have a leather sofa seems a bit silly to me, the ethos is 'as far as possible' so obviously as a vegan you wouldn't buy a leather sofa, but disconnecting from society isn't the way to go IMHO.
This is about people making different choices moving forward.
Also I'd just like to say thanks that this thread is here, it's been a good discussion without too much heat.