I find de Turck's statements regarding the Aussies and the EFL particularly perplexing.
He asks us to believe that the status is exactly as it was at the last FF, namely that the Aussies still have some documents to submit to the EFL. I checked with @Rob7Lee , and de Turck did not go so far as to describe them as "issues". Yet these papers are so difficult to submit that they have -apparently - been fannying around for at least 6 weeks or maybe a lot more, as we understood that they were ready to move to the EFL test stage in mid May. What on earth can these papers be that are so damn difficult to produce? @Rob7Lee pushed him on this and LdT put it down to the Aussies "complex structure that they are trying to resolve". Well just how complex can it be for the EFL? After all, as I keep saying, the actual business of a football club is not complex at all, especially at this level. The only complexity is that it isn't really feasible to make an operating profit, so you need funding.
Hanging over this is the Lifer who has an EFL contact, who has insisted more than once that while there were at an early stage a copile of "clarifications" the EFL required, these were delivered, and the Aussies have been given the green light. And this first emerged around 8 weeks ago.
@Rob7Lee asks himself quite reasonably, if what LdT says is not true, why would he say it twice to a fan forum, and agree that it can be put in the public domain?.
But that brings me to the second thing that puzzles me. The NDA. The thing that otherwise is the excuse for all three parties to tell us sod all. Well now. Are you telling me that it is not a breach of an NDA to reveal to a highly active audience that one party is struggling to satisfy an ODT which has seen convicted criminals sail through? Apart from anything else, such info gives an advantage to any other bidding party.
That then raises the question, what do the Aussies think about him saying this, and thus presumably breaching the NDA? Why are they not furious, or alternatively seeking to dispute the info in public?
Well I will offer you one possible answer. It is only my opinion, and I accept that it might be driven by wishful thinking. The Aussies don't give a toss what he says about this. They are not prepared to pay the ridiculous price, and are convinced that no one else will be either. They can afford to wait. They see LdT move as a desperate attempt to put pressure on them, and think the best thing to do is just shrug their shoulders and let him flail around.
Of course, one body could clarify this particular question very easily. The EFL. CAST has asked them a series of carefully worded questions which potentially would allow them to shed some light on the issue, and also allow us to go back and seek further clarification of their answers. We do not have a high expectation that they will answer in any meaningful way, at first. But we have our follow up plans in place.
@redredrobin re your good question, de Turck is currently a CFO at one of RD's micro electronic companies. I think it most unlikely that he has been pulled out of that role simply to handle this nonsense. The best guess is that this is an additional project, for which RD will doubtless have agreed to remunerate him on a performance basis (Oh dear, Lieven!). That might be paid out of the Staprix budget, but I very much doubt it has changed his overall contract of employment. He works for RD, and he knows what his goals are.
I find de Turck's statements regarding the Aussies and the EFL particularly perplexing.
He asks us to believe that the status is exactly as it was at the last FF, namely that the Aussies still have some documents to submit to the EFL. I checked with @Rob7Lee , and de Turck did not go so far as to describe them as "issues". Yet these papers are so difficult to submit that they have -apparently - been fannying around for at least 6 weeks or maybe a lot more, as we understood that they were ready to move to the EFL test stage in mid May. What on earth can these papers be that are so damn difficult to produce? @Rob7Lee pushed him on this and LdT put it down to the Aussies "complex structure that they are trying to resolve". Well just how complex can it be for the EFL? After all, as I keep saying, the actual business of a football club is not complex at all, especially at this level. The only complexity is that it isn't really feasible to make an operating profit, so you need funding.
Hanging over this is the Lifer who has an EFL contact, who has insisted more than once that while there were at an early stage a copile of "clarifications" the EFL required, these were delivered, and the Aussies have been given the green light. And this first emerged around 8 weeks ago.
@Rob7Lee asks himself quite reasonably, if what LdT says is not true, why would he say it twice to a fan forum, and agree that it can be put in the public domain?.
But that brings me to the second thing that puzzles me. The NDA. The thing that otherwise is the excuse for all three parties to tell us sod all. Well now. Are you telling me that it is not a breach of an NDA to reveal to a highly active audience that one party is struggling to satisfy an ODT which has seen convicted criminals sail through? Apart from anything else, such info gives an advantage to any other bidding party.
That then raises the question, what do the Aussies think about him saying this, and thus presumably breaching the NDA? Why are they not furious, or alternatively seeking to dispute the info in public?
Well I will offer you one possible answer. It is only my opinion, and I accept that it might be driven by wishful thinking. The Aussies don't give a toss what he says about this. They are not prepared to pay the ridiculous price, and are convinced that no one else will be either. They can afford to wait. They see LdT move as a desperate attempt to put pressure on them, and think the best thing to do is just shrug their shoulders and let him flail around.
Of course, one body could clarify this particular question very easily. The EFL. CAST has asked them a series of carefully worded questions which potentially would allow them to shed some light on the issue, and also allow us to go back and seek further clarification of their answers. We do not have a high expectation that they will answer in any meaningful way, at first. But we have our follow up plans in place.
@redredrobin re your good question, de Turck is currently a CFO at one of RD's micro electronic companies. I think it most unlikely that he has been pulled out of that role simply to handle this nonsense. The best guess is that this is an additional project, for which RD will doubtless have agreed to remunerate him on a performance basis. (Oh dear, Lieven!). That might be paid out of the Staprix budget, but I very much doubt it has changed his overall contract of employment. He works for RD, and he knows what his goals are.
Starts tapping the table and awaits an @Grapevine49 response ... Sigh
Well I will offer you one possible answer. It is only my opinion, and I accept that it might be driven by wishful thinking. The Aussies don't give a toss what he says about this. They are not prepared to pay the ridiculous price, and are convinced that no one else will be either. They can afford to wait. They see LdT move as a desperate attempt to put pressure on them, and think the best thing to do is just shrug their shoulders and let him flail around.
My thoughts exactly, ever since I was told the Australians had resolved the two issues that the EFL had. As you say, some two months ago.
Let the old duffer sweat. This threat of a second bidder has been around since Murray's statement in February.
They clearly are just a bluff to hurry up the Aussies, who haven't fallen for it because they've also read "how to up the bid by pretending there is another interested party".
They'll sit and wait until Duchatalet comes running back to them, when his Belgium lackey fails to seal the deal.
If, big if, LVT is telling the truth the onus is now definitely with the Aussies and I’m intrigued as to what paperwork needs submitting to the EFL and why it has still not been submitted. This other party having done DD are not coming up fast on the rails and if they shift themselves may pip the Aussies at the post.
Finally, thanks to those that attended and thanks for the prompt update.
It really hinges on that one bit about paperwork not being submitted to the EFL, doesn't it?
On the one hand, trust nothing this regime says. On the other hand, why are the Aussies seemingly hanging around and not closing the deal? Especially if "a price has been agreed."
Something doesn't add up, but I just don't know what.
1) Aussies either haven't got their investment sorted so aren't ready to go to the EFL. 2) or, they have Duchatelet where they want him and are holding out for push to come to shove on final negotiations. 3) Duchatelet's exit cost is increasing from c £20m at a rate of £800k per month. 4) There is no second buyer. Amateur negotiation tactics. If there was a whiff of a serious alternative Duchatelet wouldn't be waiting for the Aussies. The Rumour Mill would also have revealed names.
No great rush in the circumstances apart from the real possibility of another relegation which we deserve under this clown's ownership.
I find de Turck's statements regarding the Aussies and the EFL particularly perplexing.
He asks us to believe that the status is exactly as it was at the last FF, namely that the Aussies still have some documents to submit to the EFL. I checked with @Rob7Lee , and de Turck did not go so far as to describe them as "issues". Yet these papers are so difficult to submit that they have -apparently - been fannying around for at least 6 weeks or maybe a lot more, as we understood that they were ready to move to the EFL test stage in mid May. What on earth can these papers be that are so damn difficult to produce? @Rob7Lee pushed him on this and LdT put it down to the Aussies "complex structure that they are trying to resolve". Well just how complex can it be for the EFL? After all, as I keep saying, the actual business of a football club is not complex at all, especially at this level. The only complexity is that it isn't really feasible to make an operating profit, so you need funding.
Hanging over this is the Lifer who has an EFL contact, who has insisted more than once that while there were at an early stage a copile of "clarifications" the EFL required, these were delivered, and the Aussies have been given the green light. And this first emerged around 8 weeks ago.
@Rob7Lee asks himself quite reasonably, if what LdT says is not true, why would he say it twice to a fan forum, and agree that it can be put in the public domain?.
But that brings me to the second thing that puzzles me. The NDA. The thing that otherwise is the excuse for all three parties to tell us sod all. Well now. Are you telling me that it is not a breach of an NDA to reveal to a highly active audience that one party is struggling to satisfy an ODT which has seen convicted criminals sail through? Apart from anything else, such info gives an advantage to any other bidding party.
That then raises the question, what do the Aussies think about him saying this, and thus presumably breaching the NDA? Why are they not furious, or alternatively seeking to dispute the info in public?
Well I will offer you one possible answer. It is only my opinion, and I accept that it might be driven by wishful thinking. The Aussies don't give a toss what he says about this. They are not prepared to pay the ridiculous price, and are convinced that no one else will be either. They can afford to wait. They see LdT move as a desperate attempt to put pressure on them, and think the best thing to do is just shrug their shoulders and let him flail around.
Of course, one body could clarify this particular question very easily. The EFL. CAST has asked them a series of carefully worded questions which potentially would allow them to shed some light on the issue, and also allow us to go back and seek further clarification of their answers. We do not have a high expectation that they will answer in any meaningful way, at first. But we have our follow up plans in place.
@redredrobin re your good question, de Turck is currently a CFO at one of RD's micro electronic companies. I think it most unlikely that he has been pulled out of that role simply to handle this nonsense. The best guess is that this is an additional project, for which RD will doubtless have agreed to remunerate him on a performance basis. (Oh dear, Lieven!). That might be paid out of the Staprix budget, but I very much doubt it has changed his overall contract of employment. He works for RD, and he knows what his goals are.
personally think that is where we are with the Aussies and who can blame them for their stance
Well I will offer you one possible answer. It is only my opinion, and I accept that it might be driven by wishful thinking. The Aussies don't give a toss what he says about this. They are not prepared to pay the ridiculous price, and are convinced that no one else will be either. They can afford to wait. They see LdT move as a desperate attempt to put pressure on them, and think the best thing to do is just shrug their shoulders and let him flail around.
My thoughts exactly, ever since I was told the Australians had resolved the two issues that the EFL had. As you say, some two months ago.
Let the old duffer sweat. This threat of a second bidder has been around since Murray's statement in February.
They clearly are just a bluff to hurry up the Aussies, who haven't fallen for it because they've also read "how to up the bid by pretending there is another interested party".
They'll sit and wait until Duchatalet comes running back to them, when his Belgium lackey fails to seal the deal.
Why buy a turkey in August when you can’t buy the vegetables and stuffing until late December ?
I don’t understand about takeovers, hence my questions.
Howevever what would happen if Duchatelet said enough is enough and refused to put any more money into the club? Would we then go into administration? And could a new buyer could pick up the pieces for a fraction of the price. Also presumably if that scenario happened Charlton would be relegated 1 division?
I don’t understand about takeovers, hence my questions.
Howevever what would happen if Duchatelet said enough is enough and refused to put any more money into the club? Would we then go into administration? And could a new buyer could pick up the pieces for a fraction of the price. Also presumably if that scenario happened Charlton would be relegated 1 division?
He would have to pay the former directors £7m and be left with a piece of land he can't easily develop or sell. His own debt would be scaled down to whatever any administrator could get.
He asks us to believe that the status is exactly as it was at the last FF, namely that the Aussies still have some documents to submit to the EFL. I checked with @Rob7Lee , and de Turck did not go so far as to describe them as "issues". Yet these papers are so difficult to submit that they have -apparently - been fannying around for at least 6 weeks or maybe a lot more, as we understood that they were ready to move to the EFL test stage in mid May. What on earth can these papers be that are so damn difficult to produce? @Rob7Lee pushed him on this and LdT put it down to the Aussies "complex structure that they are trying to resolve". Well just how complex can it be for the EFL? After all, as I keep saying, the actual business of a football club is not complex at all, especially at this level. The only complexity is that it isn't really feasible to make an operating profit, so you need funding.
Aston Villa got to a play off final, lost it, realised they were financially fucked, searched for new investors, found new investors, submitted paperwork to the EFL, had them accepted, got the investors on board, eased their financial worries and are now buying/loaning players...........all in the time we've been waiting to submit some papers to the EFL!
Well done to all at the FF for pressing as well as they could
The whole situation is a farce. There’s so much more going on under the surface that all parties concerned don’t want to raise in public. I think the majority of guesses about lack of funding for the Aussies and RD not wanting to pay the loans owed to former directors are prob spot on, but we’ve got this pathetic opaque charade driving us all up the wall
Wish all involved would just put up or shut up now
"After the last Fans’ Forum on July 11th the second party went quiet but in the last week they have become more active"
Must've been the impressive results against the footballing powerhouses of Accrington and Peterborough that had them rushing for their cheque books.
yeah, strange that. The "second party" only ever seem to raise their heads when there is either a FF or a statement from RM. Total bullshit. There is no second bidder. If there was then someone would know by now a little bit of info about them.
Well done to all at the FF for pressing as well as they could
The whole situation is a farce. There’s so much more going on under the surface that all parties concerned don’t want to raise in public. I think the majority of guesses about lack of funding for the Aussies and RD not wanting to pay the loans owed to former directors are prob spot on, but we’ve got this pathetic opaque charade driving us all up the wall
Wish all involved would just put up or shut up now
It’s not a farce it’s a negotiation and we are all on the outside looking in.
However interested we are they don’t have to tell us anything because our loyalty as football supporters will always be taken for granted and abused as all clubs ultimately do.
Well done to all at the FF for pressing as well as they could
The whole situation is a farce. There’s so much more going on under the surface that all parties concerned don’t want to raise in public. I think the majority of guesses about lack of funding for the Aussies and RD not wanting to pay the loans owed to former directors are prob spot on, but we’ve got this pathetic opaque charade driving us all up the wall
Wish all involved would just put up or shut up now
It’s not a farce it’s a negotiation and we are all on the outside looking in.
However interested we are they don’t have to tell us anything because our loyalty as >football supporters will always be taken for granted and abused as all clubs ultimately do.
Meire thought that too and look at just how wrong she was.
Well I will offer you one possible answer. It is only my opinion, and I accept that it might be driven by wishful thinking. The Aussies don't give a toss what he says about this. They are not prepared to pay the ridiculous price, and are convinced that no one else will be either. They can afford to wait. They see LdT move as a desperate attempt to put pressure on them, and think the best thing to do is just shrug their shoulders and let him flail around.
My thoughts exactly, ever since I was told the Australians had resolved the two issues that the EFL had. As you say, some two months ago.
Let the old duffer sweat. This threat of a second bidder has been around since Murray's statement in February.
They clearly are just a bluff to hurry up the Aussies, who haven't fallen for it because they've also read "how to up the bid by pretending there is another interested party".
They'll sit and wait until Duchatalet comes running back to them, when his Belgium lackey fails to seal the deal.
Why buy a turkey in August when you can’t buy the vegetables and stuffing until late December ?
But then we effectively said the same thing last February, why buy the club now when you can buy it instead in June in time for the transfer window, and look how well that went...
Well done to all at the FF for pressing as well as they could
The whole situation is a farce. There’s so much more going on under the surface that all parties concerned don’t want to raise in public. I think the majority of guesses about lack of funding for the Aussies and RD not wanting to pay the loans owed to former directors are prob spot on, but we’ve got this pathetic opaque charade driving us all up the wall
Wish all involved would just put up or shut up now
It’s not a farce it’s a negotiation and we are all on the outside looking in.
However interested we are they don’t have to tell us anything because our loyalty as football supporters will always be taken for granted and abused as all clubs ultimately do.
Well I will offer you one possible answer. It is only my opinion, and I accept that it might be driven by wishful thinking. The Aussies don't give a toss what he says about this. They are not prepared to pay the ridiculous price, and are convinced that no one else will be either. They can afford to wait. They see LdT move as a desperate attempt to put pressure on them, and think the best thing to do is just shrug their shoulders and let him flail around.
My thoughts exactly, ever since I was told the Australians had resolved the two issues that the EFL had. As you say, some two months ago.
Let the old duffer sweat. This threat of a second bidder has been around since Murray's statement in February.
They clearly are just a bluff to hurry up the Aussies, who haven't fallen for it because they've also read "how to up the bid by pretending there is another interested party".
They'll sit and wait until Duchatalet comes running back to them, when his Belgium lackey fails to seal the deal.
Why buy a turkey in August when you can’t buy the vegetables and stuffing until late December ?
Well done to all at the FF for pressing as well as they could
The whole situation is a farce. There’s so much more going on under the surface that all parties concerned don’t want to raise in public. I think the majority of guesses about lack of funding for the Aussies and RD not wanting to pay the loans owed to former directors are prob spot on, but we’ve got this pathetic opaque charade driving us all up the wall
Wish all involved would just put up or shut up now
It’s not a farce it’s a negotiation and we are all on the outside looking in.
However interested we are they don’t have to tell us anything because our loyalty as football supporters will always be taken for granted and abused as all clubs ultimately do.
It's a negotiation that has turned into a farce.
Potentially only to us as bystanders. For the Aussies they may be content to play the long game.
It’s financially illogical to invest in football so to expect “normal” behaviour is wishful thinking. Anyone still showing interest we have to be grateful to.
Well done to all at the FF for pressing as well as they could
The whole situation is a farce. There’s so much more going on under the surface that all parties concerned don’t want to raise in public. I think the majority of guesses about lack of funding for the Aussies and RD not wanting to pay the loans owed to former directors are prob spot on, but we’ve got this pathetic opaque charade driving us all up the wall
Wish all involved would just put up or shut up now
It’s not a farce it’s a negotiation and we are all on the outside looking in.
However interested we are they don’t have to tell us anything because our loyalty as football supporters will always be taken for granted and abused as all clubs ultimately do.
It's a negotiation that has turned into a farce.
Potentially only to us as bystanders. For the Aussies they may be content to play the long game.
It’s financially illogical to invest in football so to expect “normal” behaviour is wishful thinking. Anyone still showing interest we have to be grateful to.
I'm not anti Aussies, far from it. Just fed up with the negotiation. You're correct in that it may be the Aussies playing the long game, but I just get the feeling they aren't in a position to buy us. I could be wrong, it could be part of the negotiations but I'm really beginning to think they just don't have the funds. If that's the case then I wish they would just say. Who knows
Well done to all at the FF for pressing as well as they could
The whole situation is a farce. There’s so much more going on under the surface that all parties concerned don’t want to raise in public. I think the majority of guesses about lack of funding for the Aussies and RD not wanting to pay the loans owed to former directors are prob spot on, but we’ve got this pathetic opaque charade driving us all up the wall
Wish all involved would just put up or shut up now
It’s not a farce it’s a negotiation and we are all on the outside looking in.
However interested we are they don’t have to tell us anything because our loyalty as >football supporters will always be taken for granted and abused as all clubs ultimately do.
Meire thought that too and look at just how wrong she was.
But that’s my point. They do (she and RD did) and will continue to do so.
Consequences of doing so is a separate point to that I am making. They all believe if they can create enough success on the pitch supporters will return / come running.
RD has failed and abused supporters trust / goodwill yet 5k apparently still buy season tickets.
My point is this negotiation is ongoing and we have to be patient still. We don’t know why the Aussies aren’t completing yet.
the timing of the release (if thats what is being referred to above) wasn't desperate, it was in response to fans on here wanting a quick brief summary ASAP after the meeting.
I don’t understand about takeovers, hence my questions.
Howevever what would happen if Duchatelet said enough is enough and refused to put any more money into the club? Would we then go into administration? And could a new buyer could pick up the pieces for a fraction of the price. Also presumably if that scenario happened Charlton would be relegated 1 division?
He would have to pay the former directors £7m and be left with a piece of land he can't easily develop or sell. His own debt would be scaled down to whatever any administrator could get.
Not necessarily, although that is one option. It could go straight into administration without anything happening. The administrator would get what he can for the whole thing as a going concern. The money that RD will get out of this will be more than your suggestion but far less than the agreed price with the Aussies. This is why it is an unattractive option for him. For the Aussies on the other hand they have little to lose at the moment by sitting on their hands. Having now missed the transfer deadline they may just as well wait and could easily get the club at a reduced price.
Comments
Have the old directors you are in touch said the debentures are no longer an issue?
And if so how have they been resolved? Paid in full? % paid? Rolled over?
Let the old duffer sweat. This threat of a second bidder has been around since Murray's statement in February.
They clearly are just a bluff to hurry up the Aussies, who haven't fallen for it because they've also read "how to up the bid by pretending there is another interested party".
They'll sit and wait until Duchatalet comes running back to them, when his Belgium lackey fails to seal the deal.
On the one hand, trust nothing this regime says. On the other hand, why are the Aussies seemingly hanging around and not closing the deal? Especially if "a price has been agreed."
Something doesn't add up, but I just don't know what.
1) Aussies either haven't got their investment sorted so aren't ready to go to the EFL.
2) or, they have Duchatelet where they want him and are holding out for push to come to shove on final negotiations.
3) Duchatelet's exit cost is increasing from c £20m at a rate of £800k per month.
4) There is no second buyer. Amateur negotiation tactics. If there was a whiff of a serious alternative Duchatelet wouldn't be waiting for the Aussies. The Rumour Mill would also have revealed names.
No great rush in the circumstances apart from the real possibility of another relegation which we deserve under this clown's ownership.
Howevever what would happen if Duchatelet said enough is enough and refused to put any more money into the club?
Would we then go into administration?
And could a new buyer could pick up the pieces for a fraction of the price.
Also presumably if that scenario happened Charlton would be relegated 1 division?
Must've been the impressive results against the footballing powerhouses of Accrington and Peterborough that had them rushing for their cheque books.
The whole situation is a farce. There’s so much more going on under the surface that all parties concerned don’t want to raise in public. I think the majority of guesses about lack of funding for the Aussies and RD not wanting to pay the loans owed to former directors are prob spot on, but we’ve got this pathetic opaque charade driving us all up the wall
Wish all involved would just put up or shut up now
The fella thinks people are as stoopid as he is.
Their silence is deafening. Not a word from them for quite a long while.
However interested we are they don’t have to tell us anything because our loyalty as football supporters will always be taken for granted and abused as all clubs ultimately do.
I don’t think it’s been confirmed clean title is a deal breaker. That’s conjecture I believe.
It’s financially illogical to invest in football so to expect “normal” behaviour is wishful thinking. Anyone still showing interest we have to be grateful to.
I think the term is ' Desperately trying to flog a dead horse.'
Consequences of doing so is a separate point to that I am making. They all believe if they can create enough success on the pitch supporters will return / come running.
RD has failed and abused supporters trust / goodwill yet 5k apparently still buy season tickets.
My point is this negotiation is ongoing and we have to be patient still. We don’t know why the Aussies aren’t completing yet.
And if they can just be rolled over why has Roland,according to rumour,offered 25p in the £?
For the Aussies on the other hand they have little to lose at the moment by sitting on their hands. Having now missed the transfer deadline they may just as well wait and could easily get the club at a reduced price.