Just watched it back. Never a penalty! Shocking decision tbf.
I can't believe how many people on here think it was obvious. It was obviously not. How can you take your arm away from the ball when it is smacked at you from 4 yards away?
I'm obviously delighted that we won, but you would be absolutely fuming if you were you a Stanley fan.
It doesn't matter if he couldn't get it out of the way, it was in an "unnatural" position and so it's a handball. It's usually a good idea to have some idea of what you're talking about before pontificating.
Great clear footage of the penalty incident, Callum.
I've watched it in slo-mo and froze it at various points ..... as Reeves prepares to shoot, the Stanley defender has his arm down low by his side.
Freeze the frame immediately after Reeves shoots, the arm has moved higher.
Freeze at the moment of contact with the ball, the arm is higher still.
IMO it's quite clear that the arm is moving, and the correct decision is hand to ball - penalty.
Agree with you Oggy. The defender seemed to make a reactionary action (a bit like a slip fielder might make in a sharp catching chance). He may argue it was an involuntary movement, but it wasn't for his self protection and it did thwart a Charlton attack. Pen for me too.
It isn't just reflexes though that could make it a penalty. When a keeper wants to block a close range one on one he makes himself big using the whole of his body - this is to increase the chances of the ball hitting him. You can have your hands out high as part of an instinctive blocking motion. If so, it is a penalty if the hand or arm is hit. The problem with this particular law is the main factor is what the defender is trying to do and not being psychic, the officials have to make a judgement.
I originally called it a 70:30 against being a penalty, but I think having reviewed it a few times it was a 50:50. I don't think the officials can be criticised for that particular decision. The problem with a 50:50 decision is when it goes against you, you are not going to be happy. A number of Accrington players let themselves down after that and a couple clearly did just before on Taylor. I think this is worthy of an FA charge of failing to control the team. It is hard when you put so much effort into something and get nothing back. I appreciate that, but they crossed a few lines yesterday.
It us a penalty all day long, he was defending and trying to limit Reeves’s options of shooting at the goal or where he could kick the ball to and in doing so he had his arm out. Penalty.
Had a quick look at the Stanley forum..apart from moron calling us the dirtiest team in league, the majority said we deserved the win and there was nothing wrong with the disallowed goal. Some 50/50 on the penalty, if he had his hands down it would have gone round him. Penalty for me.
All the Stanley fans aren't keen on Taylor it seems, laughing at being sent off. It just looks like he's giving the Stanley player shit.
This will be unpopular, wasn’t at the game, but watching quest this morning, Taylor does appear to kick out and send an AS player flying right at the end of the melee before the scene changes to the keepers red card
No problems with the way Accrington played,lesser teams will always resort to dodgy tactics to thwart their betters.But,the way they abused and intimidated the linesman was out of order.The referee shpuld have sent at least two of their players off.It was not spur of the moment abuse,but a sustained volley of vitreol.Totally out of order and must be dealt with.
Surprised nobody has singled Bielik out for special praise in the brawl. Went charging in to aid Taylor, knocking a few around in the process. Think he realised he might have overstepped the mark so retreated to the halfway line rather sheepishly
In this vid at about 9.20 is the red card incident. Accrington player goes flying which I assume the assistant assumed was Taylor kicking out from the ground. Will be surprised if it’s overturned.
In this vid at about 9.20 is the red card incident. Accrington player goes flying which I assume the assistant assumed was Taylor kicking out from the ground. Will be surprised if it’s overturned.
That cant be Taylor that sends the Accrington player flying surely?
Lyle is already on the ground and looks like its the Charlton player (Cullen) standing to the left that throws out the arm to send him over?
Thought Bow made a rare tactical error flooding the midfield, we were very flat and could have done with more width from the off, perhaps Fosu for Pratley. With that strength of team we should be destroying teams like them.
Very enjoyable match, Stanley players were a disgrace but the ref should have sorted them out immediately instead he allowed their prolonged moaning and disgusting behaviour towards the Lino to go unpunished for too long.
In this vid at about 9.20 is the red card incident. Accrington player goes flying which I assume the assistant assumed was Taylor kicking out from the ground. Will be surprised if it’s overturned.
Looks like a shove that did that, judging by how his body move and arm movement from one of ours.
This will be unpopular, wasn’t at the game, but watching quest this morning, Taylor does appear to kick out and send an AS player flying right at the end of the melee before the scene changes to the keepers red card
Taylor was merely stretching his foot to get rid of cramp. He had worked hard all game. It's not his fault if a Stanley player got in the way.
In this vid at about 9.20 is the red card incident. Accrington player goes flying which I assume the assistant assumed was Taylor kicking out from the ground. Will be surprised if it’s overturned.
That cant be Taylor that sends the Accrington player flying surely?
Lyle is already on the ground and looks like its the Charlton player (Cullen) standing to the left that throws out the arm to send him over?
Agreed, I can’t see that it’s Taylor who sends their guy flying.
Just watched it back. Never a penalty! Shocking decision tbf.
Why do you think no penalty?
Too close IMHO
I always say it's a pen if the oppo player stop the ball going to another player. If his arm wasn't in the way the ball would have either been on target or gone to a team mate. It's one we don't usually get but imo was the correct decision.
Also surprised the other incident that got my goat hasn't been mentioned......the injured player who after been treated by their physio didn't go off the pitch !! Ref was a complete numpty.
As for the rest of the game. Turgid. No real attacking threat apart from Taylor in the 15 mins before he was sent off. LB has the sending off & the penalty to save him from getting pelters this evening. Shocking performance all round.
Do you remember Morgan?
Young Albie who had a great 1st half against Sunderland was going to play according to Bowyer, which would have given the midfield a better balance, with two attacking players, Williams and Morgan, and two defensive midfielders.
Why Lee Bowyer should get pelters when he is faced with losing 2 players per match by injuries: Morgan in training and Taylor's Red card just a typical week at Cafc. Lee may have to play the infamous 4231 at the Posh !
I understand slagging off is your raison d'etre but you are becoming predictable.
Just watched it back. Never a penalty! Shocking decision tbf.
Why do you think no penalty?
Too close IMHO
I always say it's a pen if the oppo player stop the ball going to another player. If his arm wasn't in the way the ball would have either been on target or gone to a team mate. It's one we don't usually get but imo was the correct decision.
Also surprised the other incident that got my goat hasn't been mentioned......the injured player who after been treated by their physio didn't go off the pitch !! Ref was a complete numpty.
As for the rest of the game. Turgid. No real attacking threat apart from Taylor in the 15 mins before he was sent off. LB has the sending off & the penalty to save him from getting pelters this evening. Shocking performance all round.
Do you remember Morgan?
Young Albie who had a great 1st half against Sunderland was going to play according to Bowyer, which would have given the midfield a better balance, with two attacking players, Williams and Morgan, and two defensive midfielders.
Why Lee Bowyer should get pelters when he is faced with losing 2 players per match by injuries: Morgan in training and Taylor's Red card just a typical week at Cafc.
I understand slagging off is your raison d'etre but you are becoming predictable.
I'm not slagging anyone off......just pointing out that I think LB was wrong in playing 3 dm' s from the start. He did it at Coventry & Barnsley recently & we lost both games. I was at the Coventry game & we were awful 1st half, just like yesterday.
imo he should have started with Fosu instead of Prately yesterday......or why not even Marshall on the right, Fosu left, with Cullen & Beilik in the middle (or Williams instead of one of those 2)
I admit I'm not a tactical genius but I'm not the only one saying that Cullen, Pratley & Beliek is too defensive.....especially at home & esp against a team we need to be beating if we want promotion. Away at Pompey or Sunderland may be.....at home to AS (who are on a bad run of form) no.
In this vid at about 9.20 is the red card incident. Accrington player goes flying which I assume the assistant assumed was Taylor kicking out from the ground. Will be surprised if it’s overturned.
Looks like a shove that did that, judging by how his body move and arm movement from one of ours.
I think Taylor has a chance looking at the footage. I think he can claim his position was extremely vulnerable and he had to assume a defensive stance to avoid injury. He moved his legs to stop people stamping on his legs/privates - he could not see any players and if they were not attacking him he wouldn't have touched them. There is evidence as to why self defence was needed, and whilst unlikely, as the league do not always approach these situations fairly, it is possible that a hearing could be understanding of the need to protect his space in that situation.
Solly deserves a lot of credit for sprinting over and shielding the lino after their players absolutely went for him. Surprised it hasn’t been mentioned.
Personally I didn't think it was his job to get involved and protect the lino, as that risks getting yourself involved when it had nothing to do with us. Indeed LET the Stanley players overstep the mark
In this vid at about 9.20 is the red card incident. Accrington player goes flying which I assume the assistant assumed was Taylor kicking out from the ground. Will be surprised if it’s overturned.
Looks like a shove that did that, judging by how his body move and arm movement from one of ours.
I think Taylor has a chance looking at the footage. I think he can claim his position was extremely vulnerable and he had to assume a defensive stance to avoid injury. He moved his legs to stop people stamping on his legs/privates - he could not see any players and if they were not attacking him he wouldn't have touched them. There is evidence as to why self defence was needed, and whilst unlikely, as the league do not always approach these situations fairly, it is possible that a hearing could be understanding of the need to protect his space in that situation.
Imagine you are pushed to the ground with a load of people steaming in on you - I don't think you would do anything different to Taylor. You bring your legs and arms up and try to fend people off with your feet. It is different to deliberately kicking out and given Taylor's position - helpless on the floor - I think a good case can easily be made.
Just watched it back. Never a penalty! Shocking decision tbf.
Why do you think no penalty?
Too close IMHO
I always say it's a pen if the oppo player stop the ball going to another player. If his arm wasn't in the way the ball would have either been on target or gone to a team mate. It's one we don't usually get but imo was the correct decision.
Also surprised the other incident that got my goat hasn't been mentioned......the injured player who after been treated by their physio didn't go off the pitch !! Ref was a complete numpty.
As for the rest of the game. Turgid. No real attacking threat apart from Taylor in the 15 mins before he was sent off. LB has the sending off & the penalty to save him from getting pelters this evening. Shocking performance all round.
Do you remember Morgan?
Young Albie who had a great 1st half against Sunderland was going to play according to Bowyer, which would have given the midfield a better balance, with two attacking players, Williams and Morgan, and two defensive midfielders.
Why Lee Bowyer should get pelters when he is faced with losing 2 players per match by injuries: Morgan in training and Taylor's Red card just a typical week at Cafc.
I understand slagging off is your raison d'etre but you are becoming predictable.
I'm not slagging anyone off......just pointing out that I think LB was wrong in playing 3 dm' s from the start. He did it at Coventry & Barnsley recently & we lost both games. I was at the Coventry game & we were awful 1st half, just like yesterday.
imo he should have started with Fosu instead of Prately yesterday......or why not even Marshall on the right, Fosu left, with Cullen & Beilik in the middle (or Williams instead of one of those 2)
I admit I'm not a tactical genius but I'm not the only one saying that Cullen, Pratley & Beliek is too defensive.....especially at home & esp against a team we need to be beating if we want promotion. Away at Pompey or Sunderland may be.....at home to AS (who are on a bad run of form) no.
Bowyer probably wanted to keep Fosu up his sleeve for when Accrington tired. He likes the narrow formation, so that rules Marshall out. Maybe Reeves would've been the best suited but it was handy having him come on for Williams. And maybe LB thought Pratley deserved a chance after last week at Shrewsbury.
Learn the (newish) rules @golfaddick- if a player requires treatment after a FOUL, he no longer has to leave the pitch.
After a booking
Laws not rules Henry !! :-)
But you are right, an injured player does not need to leave the pitch following injury in where the aggressor was either cautioned or sent off; unless the treatment length is likely to unduly delay the restart of the game. Law change 2 years ago.
Learn the (newish) rules @golfaddick- if a player requires treatment after a FOUL, he no longer has to leave the pitch.
After a booking
Laws not rules Henry !! :-)
But you are right, an injured player does not need to leave the pitch following injury in where the aggressor was either cautioned or sent off; unless the treatment length is likely to unduly delay the restart of the game. Law change 2 years ago.
That last bit is daft, as the delay is nearly always BEFORE the player might leave the pitch anyway. The whole law is a farce in this respect, as in practice it saves minimal time
A few thoughts about yesterday, in no particular order:
- Not a patch on our second half performance against Sunderland (the previous game I'd seen) and, I guess, not as good as last week's against Shrews BUT we still got the win and Pompey, Sunderland, Posh, and Donny all dropped points so not a bad day.
- Playing Cullen, Pratley, and Bielik in the same side is not too defensive per se but they need to have the discipline to maintain their positions or rotate around so that they're taking it in turns to be the centre-half-back at the base of the diamond. Too often yesterday they were having a union meeting in front of the Becken twins, BeckenBauer and BeckenSarr.
- Reeves' cameo performance: that's the sort of thing we want from you, boy! Ben's introduction effectively removed a body from the back half (Pratley), which gave Culen and Bielik a bit more space to operate in, and started to stretch Stanley further around the pitch as there was more attacking drive from us.
- The Accy players' response to the penalty award: my first thought was Keane, Stam, D'Urso from back in the day. Disgraceful, should result in some additional bans.
- Disallowed goal: Given the amount of wrestling that goes on in the penalty area before corners and free-kicks are played in, what does Taylor actually do wrong? A number of times this season he's been penalised resulting in at least two disallowed goals but all I see him doing is standing still in front of the 'keeper. OK, he's being a pain in the arse, but as far as I'm aware that's not an offence. If it was, Robbie Savage's career wouldn't have lasted as long as it did.
- The red cards: I couldn't really see what happened in real time and I haven't seen all the video footage (and certainly not in slow-motion to pick up everything that may have happened) but Lord Bowyer, in his interview with @LouisMend on the radio, felt those two cards were harsh but others should have gone instead. Looking at some of the photos posted since I think there may well be some cards to come.
- Naby Sarr: The Enforcer, BeckenSarr, whatever I may call him ... he's becoming the biggest cult hero at the club since The Tank, Jorge Costa. The players seem to love him and that photo of him after the game with Jonniesta Williams was beautiful. Probably the most improved player at the club both in terms of performance and reputation/affection amongst the fans. I'll be disappointed if he's not top three in the PoTY voting. There is no way Lord Bowyer can drop him if/when Pearce is fit again, even if Jason is the skipper. If he is dropped then the good Lord must be criminally insane.
Comments
I originally called it a 70:30 against being a penalty, but I think having reviewed it a few times it was a 50:50. I don't think the officials can be criticised for that particular decision. The problem with a 50:50 decision is when it goes against you, you are not going to be happy. A number of Accrington players let themselves down after that and a couple clearly did just before on Taylor. I think this is worthy of an FA charge of failing to control the team. It is hard when you put so much effort into something and get nothing back. I appreciate that, but they crossed a few lines yesterday.
The Stanley keeper is a voilent thug abs should be given a double red and a very long ban.
If one of our players does it., it is clearly accidental and obviously no penalty.
It really is that simple.
Some 50/50 on the penalty, if he had his hands down it would have gone round him. Penalty for me.
All the Stanley fans aren't keen on Taylor it seems, laughing at being sent off. It just looks like he's giving the Stanley player shit.
In this vid at about 9.20 is the red card incident. Accrington player goes flying which I assume the assistant assumed was Taylor kicking out from the ground. Will be surprised if it’s overturned.
New name Krystian Bollok
Lyle is already on the ground and looks like its the Charlton player (Cullen) standing to the left that throws out the arm to send him over?
Very enjoyable match, Stanley players were a disgrace but the ref should have sorted them out immediately instead he allowed their prolonged moaning and disgusting behaviour towards the Lino to go unpunished for too long.
Young Albie who had a great 1st half against Sunderland was going to play according to Bowyer, which would have given the midfield a better balance, with two attacking players, Williams and Morgan, and two defensive midfielders.
Why Lee Bowyer should get pelters when he is faced with losing 2 players per match by injuries: Morgan in training and Taylor's Red card just a typical week at Cafc.
Lee may have to play the infamous 4231 at the Posh !
I understand slagging off is your raison d'etre but you are becoming predictable.
imo he should have started with Fosu instead of Prately yesterday......or why not even Marshall on the right, Fosu left, with Cullen & Beilik in the middle (or Williams instead of one of those 2)
I admit I'm not a tactical genius but I'm not the only one saying that Cullen, Pratley & Beliek is too defensive.....especially at home & esp against a team we need to be beating if we want promotion. Away at Pompey or Sunderland may be.....at home to AS (who are on a bad run of form) no.
But you are right, an injured player does not need to leave the pitch following injury in where the aggressor was either cautioned or sent off; unless the treatment length is likely to unduly delay the restart of the game.
Law change 2 years ago.
- Not a patch on our second half performance against Sunderland (the previous game I'd seen) and, I guess, not as good as last week's against Shrews BUT we still got the win and Pompey, Sunderland, Posh, and Donny all dropped points so not a bad day.
- Playing Cullen, Pratley, and Bielik in the same side is not too defensive per se but they need to have the discipline to maintain their positions or rotate around so that they're taking it in turns to be the centre-half-back at the base of the diamond. Too often yesterday they were having a union meeting in front of the Becken twins, BeckenBauer and BeckenSarr.
- Reeves' cameo performance: that's the sort of thing we want from you, boy! Ben's introduction effectively removed a body from the back half (Pratley), which gave Culen and Bielik a bit more space to operate in, and started to stretch Stanley further around the pitch as there was more attacking drive from us.
- The Accy players' response to the penalty award: my first thought was Keane, Stam, D'Urso from back in the day. Disgraceful, should result in some additional bans.
- Disallowed goal: Given the amount of wrestling that goes on in the penalty area before corners and free-kicks are played in, what does Taylor actually do wrong? A number of times this season he's been penalised resulting in at least two disallowed goals but all I see him doing is standing still in front of the 'keeper. OK, he's being a pain in the arse, but as far as I'm aware that's not an offence. If it was, Robbie Savage's career wouldn't have lasted as long as it did.
- The red cards: I couldn't really see what happened in real time and I haven't seen all the video footage (and certainly not in slow-motion to pick up everything that may have happened) but Lord Bowyer, in his interview with @LouisMend on the radio, felt those two cards were harsh but others should have gone instead. Looking at some of the photos posted since I think there may well be some cards to come.
- Naby Sarr: The Enforcer, BeckenSarr, whatever I may call him ... he's becoming the biggest cult hero at the club since The Tank, Jorge Costa. The players seem to love him and that photo of him after the game with Jonniesta Williams was beautiful. Probably the most improved player at the club both in terms of performance and reputation/affection amongst the fans. I'll be disappointed if he's not top three in the PoTY voting. There is no way Lord Bowyer can drop him if/when Pearce is fit again, even if Jason is the skipper. If he is dropped then the good Lord must be criminally insane.