We are not dealing with a logical person - RD is losing money on a business he has no interest in yet he hangs onto it. If the ground was completely empty he'd still hold on to get his ridiculous asking price.
Boycotts work if the owner can't cover the losses but that's not the case here.
I'm not sure how you could negotiate a sale with an individual like RD and I'm starting to worry what his exit strategy will be?
The protests have all been conducted on the basis that we're dealing with a logical person but I think it's fairly evident that we're not.
good stance but IF we got promoted people will not stay away and also there are a few thousand that will go regardless, tbh £150 for a season ticket is ridiculous value for live football.
great idea but do not know whether it will work, desperately need a buyer but when they come in we are going to need a big investment to be able to compete.
But regardless of if we get promoted there won’t be a team to support.
people will still attend the valley as generations have before them.
So in two years' time they will still turn up to watch us play the likes of Bromley, Sutton and Maidstone? OK that's a worse case scenario - and I mean no disrespect to the aforementioned teams (Bromley happen to be my local club).
We are not dealing with a logical person - RD is losing money on a business he has no interest in yet he hangs onto it. If the ground was completely empty he'd still hold on to get his ridiculous asking price.
Boycotts work if the owner can't cover the losses but that's not the case here.
I'm not sure how you could negotiate a sale with an individual like RD and I'm starting to worry what his exit strategy will be?
The protests have all been conducted on the basis that we're dealing with a logical person but I think it's fairly evident that we're not.
Oh I'm sure there is logic there - what is lacking is knowledge of the football industry. Therefore however much logic he applies to the situation, Roland will inevitably come to a solution which is weird, impossible, and/or seemingly mad. We just need to realise that at the heart of his logic will be "what is best for me?".
I too am concerned what his exit strategy might be, and fear it will be announced with a timescale which makes it impossible for fans to react effectively unless we are already semi-prepared. Which is why I hope behind the scenes various possibilities like those mooted on other threads are being actively investigated.
I welcome and agree with CARD's statement but will make my own decision to again not buy a season ticket or home match tickets.
Still willing to take freebies though?
Absolutely and I have no qualms about it whatsoever.
Quite right.
My boycott is100% dependent on what my 13 yr old wants to do. I’ve only gone to home matches if he wants to go, or if I’ve been lucky enough to get a comp this season.
Bit of a cop out, but as everyone says, it’s personal decision.
I totally disagree with the idea that anyone boycotting is less of a supporter than those attending.
2 years too late CARD For the record I don't give a f@ck if we get promoted or not, I will not be renewing the season ticket next season.
Disappointed to hear that you didn't give up years ago but I guess the cheap season ticket meant you took the bait. Did I imagine that Card and others said don't give the money up front to Duchatelet at least 3 years ago ? That's when I decided to give up my ST, I know that many of Duchatelet's biggest critics still have season tickets. Fine, no problem with that but it does reek of having your cake and eat it.
I have a dream, that one day the Valley will welcome boycotters, ST holders, Ex ST ticket holders and Charlton fair weather supporters, football tourists and the old farts in the west stand who haven't the foggies what's going on to see in the new era.
good timing for the announcement with the issue of Duchatelet's delusion so prominent in the mainstream media this will pick up much more coverage NOT A PENNY MORE no matchday spend at all, no halftime draw tickets, no refreshments (blah blah yes I know that only hits him indirectly), nothing from the shop relentless anti-regime chanting throughout the televised portsmouth game black & white garb as far as possible around the stadium - particularly in North and West stands for max tv exposure even for a megatard like roly the drip drip drip of pressure and reminders and irritation and inconvenience all bring him closer to breaking point even the strongest most stubborn camel has a limit to the weight of straw he can carry
good stance but IF we got promoted people will not stay away and also there are a few thousand that will go regardless, tbh £150 for a season ticket is ridiculous value for live football.
great idea but do not know whether it will work, desperately need a buyer but when they come in we are going to need a big investment to be able to compete.
But regardless of if we get promoted there won’t be a team to support.
people will still attend the valley as generations have before them.
So in two years' time they will still turn up to watch us play the likes of Bromley, Sutton and Maidstone? OK that's a worse case scenario - and I mean no disrespect to the aforementioned teams (Bromley happen to be my local club).
I sarcastically predicted this scenario 2 or 3 years ago. The only difference was I said we’d be groundsharing with Blackheath rugby club at their well hall ground.
Personally think it's time for another Valley protest. I get the argument for Belgium, but we need a show of numbers and unity by the ground, not sure the best timing or the MO for this however, although something like a march rather than a disruption on the pitch.
The Coalition Against Roland Duchâtelet (CARD) is calling on Charlton fans to make clear that they will not commit to buying season tickets for the 2019/20 season until there is clarity about what will be left at The Valley to support.
After a week in which the club’s Belgian owner said on national radio that foreign club owners should be banned; criticised the EFL for allowing him to take Charlton over in 2014; said that he will not sell to a foreign owner; and then provoked national ridicule by “demanding” that the EFL should itself take the club over and operate it in competition with its other members, CARD says it is time for fans to take a stand.
Charlton currently have around a dozen first-team players out of contract at the end of the season and a further four loanees are set to leave, while manager Lee Bowyer and his assistant Johnnie Jackson’s deals are also up in the summer.
The club said it planned to discuss ticket prices at a twice-rescheduled fans’ forum meeting on Monday. It has no functioning board of directors and there has been no chief executive or chief financial officer for more than a year. It remains in dispute with its own staff over unpaid bonuses and Bowyer has said publicly that Duchâtelet would not allow him to sign a free agent to replace Karlan Grant, who joined Huddersfield Town in January for a reported £1.5m.
A CARD spokesperson said: “It must now be apparent to everyone, whatever their position over the last five years, that behind the scenes the club is in chaos and the owner is out of control. There is no commitment to the staff, no commitment to the players, no commitment to the manager and hence no commitment to the fans. Why would any supporter want to make a financial commitment to Duchâtelet in return?
“CARD believes that the fans’ forum should advise the club not to bring forward any season-ticket plan until it has a credible offer to make, including a commitment to the manager, a commitment to a proper squad of players and a serious effort to sell the club to new owners of whatever nationality at a credible market price.
“If the club does not heed this advice then we will campaign for fans to reject its season-ticket offer until it does. In effect we are calling for a strike that does not impact on the current team. We give Duchâtelet notice that our response may also include lawful protests against him in Belgium.”
Too little too late.
Once Fraeye was appointed, this should have been done then. A boycott should have been advocated in the relegation season.
I welcome and agree with CARD's statement but will make my own decision to again not buy a season ticket or home match tickets.
Still willing to take freebies though?
Absolutely and I have no qualms about it whatsoever.
Not intended as a dig, so please don't take it as one. But you seem to be in a very fortunate position to be able to pick up free tickets for what seems like every home game. No idea whether that's through museum involvement, programme writing, employees, friends etc, and that's entirely no one's business but your own.
But for the vast majority of people that is not an option. If you don't buy a ticket, you don't get to see the team play and you don't get to experience being at The Valley. And in that position it makes it much much harder to make a call to not buy a ST or home tickets as it means 'stop going'.
It’s subtley different this year I think as previously it’s been along the lines of “if you must renew, please hold out as long as possible”, now it seems to me the message is “if you must renew then don’t until this specific thing happens (which might never happen)”.
like I said, I agree with the premise of the message, I wonder how many people will actually support it by changing the action they would otherwise have taken to comply with CARD’s request.
But you also know its not simply about the definition of a word, by stating 'its what supporters do: they support the team' I came to my wilful delusion, (a lovely phrase that I will use more often), I know many who are not supporting their team through buying a ST for home games but are still supporters, and the statement was simply a request to delay buying one.
Actually I disagree @redskin, its not what supporters do, its not that simple and I suspect you too realise that, keep going, its your decision but dont for a minute suggest your any more a supporter than anyone else.
So, supporters don't support the team because 'it's not that simple'. That's interesting, but wrong by the very definition of the word 'supporter'. How you manage to presume I'm suggesting that I'm more of a supporter than anyone else is, frankly, wilful delusion on your part. I suggested nothing of the sort.
I'll go further. It could be reasonably argued that taking no contrary action is akin to approving the status quo.
The truth is not so simple of course, and to use the BTTV example it wouldn't have possible without both boycotters and attenders.
In this case though CARD is suggesting not to offer implicit approval of the way the club is being managed by committing to a season ticket blind to what it's supporting. A failure to secure a squad capable of even surviving at this level would be woeful dereliction and I for one won't validate it by buying a season ticket.
The Coalition Against Roland Duchâtelet (CARD) is calling on Charlton fans to make clear that they will not commit to buying season tickets for the 2019/20 season until there is clarity about what will be left at The Valley to support.
After a week in which the club’s Belgian owner said on national radio that foreign club owners should be banned; criticised the EFL for allowing him to take Charlton over in 2014; said that he will not sell to a foreign owner; and then provoked national ridicule by “demanding” that the EFL should itself take the club over and operate it in competition with its other members, CARD says it is time for fans to take a stand.
Charlton currently have around a dozen first-team players out of contract at the end of the season and a further four loanees are set to leave, while manager Lee Bowyer and his assistant Johnnie Jackson’s deals are also up in the summer.
The club said it planned to discuss ticket prices at a twice-rescheduled fans’ forum meeting on Monday. It has no functioning board of directors and there has been no chief executive or chief financial officer for more than a year. It remains in dispute with its own staff over unpaid bonuses and Bowyer has said publicly that Duchâtelet would not allow him to sign a free agent to replace Karlan Grant, who joined Huddersfield Town in January for a reported £1.5m.
A CARD spokesperson said: “It must now be apparent to everyone, whatever their position over the last five years, that behind the scenes the club is in chaos and the owner is out of control. There is no commitment to the staff, no commitment to the players, no commitment to the manager and hence no commitment to the fans. Why would any supporter want to make a financial commitment to Duchâtelet in return?
“CARD believes that the fans’ forum should advise the club not to bring forward any season-ticket plan until it has a credible offer to make, including a commitment to the manager, a commitment to a proper squad of players and a serious effort to sell the club to new owners of whatever nationality at a credible market price.
“If the club does not heed this advice then we will campaign for fans to reject its season-ticket offer until it does. In effect we are calling for a strike that does not impact on the current team. We give Duchâtelet notice that our response may also include lawful protests against him in Belgium.”
Too little too late.
Once Fraeye was appointed, this should have been done then. A boycott should have been advocated in the relegation season.
If it had been considered deliverable I imagine it would have been. But all that would have been different is that more of the usual suspects would have blamed CARD for the team being relegated. The actual effect of such a call at that time would have been negligible.
I think it's a great initiative (once again), but I fear that the fans that are still going are the ones that will go come hell or high water, and the very fans that are loath to give up their season tickets after many many years in the same seat.
I was once one of these very people, and it still pains me to stay away. But, I know I will feel sick if I venture back to that place whilst Duchatelet is in charge, and so the self imposed exile will continue, however disappointing.
It appeared the end may on the horizon. It isn't, but I shall stay strong and look forward to the day I make the short walk from the station to The Valley. I hope CARD get some joy and manage to persuade enough people to make an impact, but I'm a little sceptical to say the least.
2 years too late CARD For the record I don't give a f@ck if we get promoted or not, I will not be renewing the season ticket next season.
Disappointed to hear that you didn't give up years ago but I guess the cheap season ticket meant you took the bait. Did I imagine that Card and others said don't give the money up front to Duchatelet at least 3 years ago ? That's when I decided to give up my ST, I know that many of Duchatelet's biggest critics still have season tickets. Fine, no problem with that but it does reek of having your cake and eat it.
I have a dream, that one day the Valley will welcome boycotters, ST holders, Ex ST ticket holders and Charlton fair weather supporters, football tourists and the old farts in the west stand who haven't the foggies what's going on to see in the new era.
Thanks to Martin Luther King.
Heh, careful what you say about us West Standers. We may be old farts but some of us still have our wits about us and don't go to games with blankets and thermos flasks!
We shall continue to buy matchday tickets to secure "our" season ticket seats for every home game we are able to attend, as we've done for the past 3 seasons.
Of course, I realise that ultimately we are putting more dosh into RD's bottomless pockets - that's been pointed out by some on here time after time.
But it IS still a protest and one which means that our hard earned cash isn't handed over in one lump sum giving the owner the satisfaction of watching his coffers grow before the season even starts.
Purchasing on a match to match basis means the club can't bank on our attendance, can't factor in whether another programme will be sold, or whether more stewards will be required at each of those games, can't easily estimate how many staff will be required to man the food outlets on the concourses ( although we never buy anything there anyway).
If more people adopted this policy, with minimal season tickets sold, then the club's matchday modus operandi might require more flexible planning ...and incur more costs"just in case" the number of attendees is incorrectly calculated.
Keep 'em guessing, if you like.
This isn't going to affect RD significantly, I realise.
Until any large scale protests are in the pipeline, this is probably the only way the Fanackapans can show their support for the team ....but NOT for the regime.
And , in the ground, our voices will always be heard singing the Roland Out songs, loud & proud ...even though Mr F is tone deaf !
If CARD's worst case scenario becomes reality- Bowyer and Jackson gone along with all the loanees and out of contract players - I'll still go next season to support whatever remains of a team. That's what supporters do: they support the team.
If we all had that attitude Duchatelet would have cut all investment years ago and avoided the costly pretence of appearing ambituous and giving minimal backing to his managers and teams. You would most likely be watching League 2 football by now and supporting the worst Charlton team in history. Sometimes you have to make a stand for what you believe in or you live your life on your knees.
It’s easy to say CARD should do this, or should have done that, but the reality is they can only choose a course of action when they think that it may get some momentum behind it.
Recommending a partial boycott, attracting 70% support (for example), would be better than recommending an all out boycott if that only attracts 10%.
It’s a judgement call, and they seem to have a pretty good track record of gauging the fans’ mood.
I welcome and agree with CARD's statement but will make my own decision to again not buy a season ticket or home match tickets.
Still willing to take freebies though?
Absolutely and I have no qualms about it whatsoever.
Not intended as a dig, so please don't take it as one. But you seem to be in a very fortunate position to be able to pick up free tickets for what seems like every home game. No idea whether that's through museum involvement, programme writing, employees, friends etc, and that's entirely no one's business but your own.
But for the vast majority of people that is not an option. If you don't buy a ticket, you don't get to see the team play and you don't get to experience being at The Valley. And in that position it makes it much much harder to make a call to not buy a ST or home tickets as it means 'stop going'.
Nothing to do with the museum. Let's be clear on that straight away before Leuth et al get a hard on.
Yes, I'm in a fortunate position but I'm not demanding that others do as I do or criticising others who don't. All the people I go with and drink with on a regular basis buy their tickets and that's fine with me.
Not trying to score cheap points either unlike Iainment.
good stance but IF we got promoted people will not stay away and also there are a few thousand that will go regardless, tbh £150 for a season ticket is ridiculous value for live football.
great idea but do not know whether it will work, desperately need a buyer but when they come in we are going to need a big investment to be able to compete.
But regardless of if we get promoted there won’t be a team to support.
people will still attend the valley as generations have before them.
So in two years' time they will still turn up to watch us play the likes of Bromley, Sutton and Maidstone? OK that's a worse case scenario - and I mean no disrespect to the aforementioned teams (Bromley happen to be my local club).
I sarcastically predicted this scenario 2 or 3 years ago. The only difference was I said we’d be groundsharing with Blackheath rugby club at their well hall ground.
Millwall are the kingpins at Well Hall....Rectory Field is available though.
Sorry to butt in and happy if I am told to butt out but this
has to be an individual decision although guidance from your Trust always
helps.
If, as a fan you are OK with this guy in charge then fine go
in, get a ST, buy a pint and a pie etc. If not then you need to do something
about it and believe me, starving him of income will soon register on his
radar. Not only that, half empty stands get noticed, especially on TV and
highlight your worries and actions and gives your plight more publicity.
All very easy to say when the team is pushing for promotion
of course but at the end of the day, if you want change, this is one way of
getting it.
Sorry to butt in and happy if I am told to butt out but this
has to be an individual decision although guidance from your Trust always
helps.
If, as a fan you are OK with this guy in charge then fine go
in, get a ST, buy a pint and a pie etc. If not then you need to do something
about it and believe me, starving him of income will soon register on his
radar. Not only that, half empty stands get noticed, especially on TV and
highlight your worries and actions and gives your plight more publicity.
All very easy to say when the team is pushing for promotion
of course but at the end of the day, if you want change, this is one way of
getting it.
Our stands have been about 2/3 empty most home games for the past few years and it hasn’t helped us get rid of the bloke!
Comments
Boycotts work if the owner can't cover the losses but that's not the case here.
I'm not sure how you could negotiate a sale with an individual like RD and I'm starting to worry what his exit strategy will be?
The protests have all been conducted on the basis that we're dealing with a logical person but I think it's fairly evident that we're not.
So in two years' time they will still turn up to watch us play the likes of Bromley, Sutton and Maidstone? OK that's a worse case scenario - and I mean no disrespect to the aforementioned teams (Bromley happen to be my local club).
Oh I'm sure there is logic there - what is lacking is knowledge of the football industry. Therefore however much logic he applies to the situation, Roland will inevitably come to a solution which is weird, impossible, and/or seemingly mad. We just need to realise that at the heart of his logic will be "what is best for me?".
I too am concerned what his exit strategy might be, and fear it will be announced with a timescale which makes it impossible for fans to react effectively unless we are already semi-prepared. Which is why I hope behind the scenes various possibilities like those mooted on other threads are being actively investigated.
My boycott is100% dependent on what my 13 yr old wants to do. I’ve only gone to home matches if he wants to go, or if I’ve been lucky enough to get a comp this season.
Bit of a cop out, but as everyone says, it’s personal decision.
I totally disagree with the idea that anyone boycotting is less of a supporter than those attending.
Did I imagine that Card and others said don't give the money up front to Duchatelet at least 3 years ago ?
That's when I decided to give up my ST, I know that many of Duchatelet's biggest critics still have season tickets.
Fine, no problem with that but it does reek of having your cake and eat it.
I have a dream, that one day the Valley will welcome boycotters, ST holders, Ex ST ticket holders and Charlton fair weather supporters, football tourists and the old farts in the west stand who haven't the foggies what's going on to see in the new era.
Thanks to Martin Luther King.
NOT A PENNY MORE
no matchday spend at all, no halftime draw tickets, no refreshments (blah blah yes I know that only hits him indirectly), nothing from the shop
relentless anti-regime chanting throughout the televised portsmouth game
black & white garb as far as possible around the stadium - particularly in North and West stands for max tv exposure
even for a megatard like roly the drip drip drip of pressure and reminders and irritation and inconvenience all bring him closer to breaking point
even the strongest most stubborn camel has a limit to the weight of straw he can carry
As with the last few seasons I will renew, but will hold back until later in the pre-season.
Its all good...😉,well done CARD,no problem with asking customers to hold on for awhile & making the ole scrot sweat...
Once Fraeye was appointed, this should have been done then. A boycott should have been advocated in the relegation season.
Not intended as a dig, so please don't take it as one. But you seem to be in a very fortunate position to be able to pick up free tickets for what seems like every home game. No idea whether that's through museum involvement, programme writing, employees, friends etc, and that's entirely no one's business but your own.
But for the vast majority of people that is not an option. If you don't buy a ticket, you don't get to see the team play and you don't get to experience being at The Valley. And in that position it makes it much much harder to make a call to not buy a ST or home tickets as it means 'stop going'.
apologies I meant a all out boycott.
like I said, I agree with the premise of the message, I wonder how many people will actually support it by changing the action they would otherwise have taken to comply with CARD’s request.
The truth is not so simple of course, and to use the BTTV example it wouldn't have possible without both boycotters and attenders.
In this case though CARD is suggesting not to offer implicit approval of the way the club is being managed by committing to a season ticket blind to what it's supporting. A failure to secure a squad capable of even surviving at this level would be woeful dereliction and I for one won't validate it by buying a season ticket.
I was once one of these very people, and it still pains me to stay away. But, I know I will feel sick if I venture back to that place whilst Duchatelet is in charge, and so the self imposed exile will continue, however disappointing.
It appeared the end may on the horizon. It isn't, but I shall stay strong and look forward to the day I make the short walk from the station to The Valley. I hope CARD get some joy and manage to persuade enough people to make an impact, but I'm a little sceptical to say the least.
Of course, I realise that ultimately we are putting more dosh into RD's bottomless pockets - that's been pointed out by some on here time after time.
But it IS still a protest and one which means that our hard earned cash isn't handed over in one lump sum giving the owner the satisfaction of watching his coffers grow before the season even starts.
Purchasing on a match to match basis means the club can't bank on our attendance, can't factor in whether another programme will be sold, or whether more stewards will be required at each of those games, can't easily estimate how many staff will be required to man the food outlets on the concourses ( although we never buy anything there anyway).
If more people adopted this policy, with minimal season tickets sold, then the club's matchday modus operandi might require more flexible planning ...and incur more costs"just in case" the number of attendees is incorrectly calculated.
Keep 'em guessing, if you like.
This isn't going to affect RD significantly, I realise.
Until any large scale protests are in the pipeline, this is probably the only way the Fanackapans can show their support for the team ....but NOT for the regime.
And , in the ground, our voices will always be heard singing the Roland Out songs, loud & proud ...even though Mr F is tone deaf !
NO MORE SEASON TICKETS UNTIL THE RAT HAS GONE !
Recommending a partial boycott, attracting 70% support (for example), would be better than recommending an all out boycott if that only attracts 10%.
It’s a judgement call, and they seem to have a pretty good track record of gauging the fans’ mood.
Yes, I'm in a fortunate position but I'm not demanding that others do as I do or criticising others who don't. All the people I go with and drink with on a regular basis buy their tickets and that's fine with me.
Not trying to score cheap points either unlike Iainment.
Sorry to butt in and happy if I am told to butt out but this has to be an individual decision although guidance from your Trust always helps.
If, as a fan you are OK with this guy in charge then fine go in, get a ST, buy a pint and a pie etc. If not then you need to do something about it and believe me, starving him of income will soon register on his radar. Not only that, half empty stands get noticed, especially on TV and highlight your worries and actions and gives your plight more publicity.
All very easy to say when the team is pushing for promotion of course but at the end of the day, if you want change, this is one way of getting it.