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06/03/19: CARD wants commitments over 2019/20 manager, players and sale of club ahead of ST offer
Comments
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Six-a-bag-of-nuts said:AFKABartram said:robinofottershaw said:The usual divergence of views on here and an illustration of why it is going to be difficult for "fan power" to rid us of this idiot owner.
I don’t think we can say unlike the early protest days it’s just the odd loud few with an agenda either. The main Facebook group has a strong anti-CARD stance from the majority of its most prominent posters and it has a massive outreach. Say things enough times and sub consciously it becomes the norm for many others.
This has unfortunately all gone on for too long. As a fanbase we’ve been bang out of fresh protest ideas for more than 18 months (not a criticism, it’s natural the ideas well eventually runs dry). There’s resistance to home protests, there’s difficulty with overseas protests, there’s not enough willing support for a blanket #NAPM stance and for those plodding along there is increasing apathy and acceptance.
Its not a happy mix that will gain much momentum unless the key fundamentals change. Personally I think that will be when we no longer have a Bowyer or Jackson as manager but the next Fraeye, Nobby Vinegar, and a L1 relegation campaign. Neither of those are imminent.
I thought it was just a minority of freaks with Rickophobia but it seems like there is a rudderless army of keyboard amoeba who would rather lash out at CARD than the real enemy0 -
clb74 said:Six-a-bag-of-nuts said:AFKABartram said:robinofottershaw said:The usual divergence of views on here and an illustration of why it is going to be difficult for "fan power" to rid us of this idiot owner.
I don’t think we can say unlike the early protest days it’s just the odd loud few with an agenda either. The main Facebook group has a strong anti-CARD stance from the majority of its most prominent posters and it has a massive outreach. Say things enough times and sub consciously it becomes the norm for many others.
This has unfortunately all gone on for too long. As a fanbase we’ve been bang out of fresh protest ideas for more than 18 months (not a criticism, it’s natural the ideas well eventually runs dry). There’s resistance to home protests, there’s difficulty with overseas protests, there’s not enough willing support for a blanket #NAPM stance and for those plodding along there is increasing apathy and acceptance.
Its not a happy mix that will gain much momentum unless the key fundamentals change. Personally I think that will be when we no longer have a Bowyer or Jackson as manager but the next Fraeye, Nobby Vinegar, and a L1 relegation campaign. Neither of those are imminent.
I thought it was just a minority of freaks with Rickophobia but it seems like there is a rudderless army of keyboard amoeba who would rather lash out at CARD than the real enemy0 -
Airman Brown said:AFKABartram said:robinofottershaw said:The usual divergence of views on here and an illustration of why it is going to be difficult for "fan power" to rid us of this idiot owner.
I don’t think we can say unlike the early protest days it’s just the odd loud few with an agenda either. The main Facebook group has a strong anti-CARD stance from the majority of its most prominent posters and it has a massive outreach. Say things enough times and sub consciously it becomes the norm for many others.
This has unfortunately all gone on for too long. As a fanbase we’ve been bang out of fresh protest ideas for more than 18 months (not a criticism, it’s natural the ideas well eventually runs dry). There’s resistance to home protests, there’s difficulty with overseas protests, there’s not enough willing support for a blanket #NAPM stance and for those plodding along there is increasing apathy and acceptance.
Its not a happy mix that will gain much momentum unless the key fundamentals change. Personally I think that will be when we no longer have a Bowyer or Jackson as manager but the next Fraeye, Nobby Vinegar, and a L1 relegation campaign. Neither of those are imminent.
In truth you can get any survey result you want, if it's the same people responding every time (in the main).
This is not a criticism of the Trust, just a reality as to who responds.
You will also note that the hostile fans at Donny last week, had travelled @200 miles to support the team, not boycott.
AFKA is right the Facebrook group is definitely anti CARD in the main.
The thing is I'm 100% in agreement with the CARD statement, but some try and make you out as wrong or unsupportive, if you say anything that doesn't back it verbatim without question.2 -
Covered End said:Airman Brown said:AFKABartram said:robinofottershaw said:The usual divergence of views on here and an illustration of why it is going to be difficult for "fan power" to rid us of this idiot owner.
I don’t think we can say unlike the early protest days it’s just the odd loud few with an agenda either. The main Facebook group has a strong anti-CARD stance from the majority of its most prominent posters and it has a massive outreach. Say things enough times and sub consciously it becomes the norm for many others.
This has unfortunately all gone on for too long. As a fanbase we’ve been bang out of fresh protest ideas for more than 18 months (not a criticism, it’s natural the ideas well eventually runs dry). There’s resistance to home protests, there’s difficulty with overseas protests, there’s not enough willing support for a blanket #NAPM stance and for those plodding along there is increasing apathy and acceptance.
Its not a happy mix that will gain much momentum unless the key fundamentals change. Personally I think that will be when we no longer have a Bowyer or Jackson as manager but the next Fraeye, Nobby Vinegar, and a L1 relegation campaign. Neither of those are imminent.
In truth you can get any survey result you want, if it's the same people responding every time (in the main).
This is not a criticism of the Trust, just a reality as to who responds.
You will also note that the hostile fans at Donny last week, had travelled @200 miles to support the team, not boycott.
AFKA is right the Facebrook group is definitely anti CARD in the main.
The thing is I'm 100% in agreement with the CARD statement, but some try and make you out as wrong or unsupportive, if you say anything that doesn't back it verbatim without question.
I really despise lazy criticism of surveys (not necessarily yours), i.e. "they didn't ask me"; "they only asked 1,000 out of 10,000 so it's not accurate". It's just pig ignorant of methodology, like arguing that national political polls aren't accurate because they don't reach 30 million people.
I agree that all self-selection surveys will be flawed, but if you have a sample of 500 or 1,000 Charlton fans wherever they are drawn from it will give you useful information. It is not conceivable that if, say 80% of 500 respondents support protests, the reality is that only 10 per cent of the wider population do.
On the other hand, relying on random posts off Facebook is about as reliable as the "voodoo surveys" carried out by newspapers, especially local newspapers: "Party x is heading for a landslide in Bogtown after 23 out of 30 people we stopped in the street on a Wednesday afternoon said they were going to vote x."
Facebook posts are, by definition, self-selecting.
As a reminder, I put this theory to the test every time I produce an issue of VOTV. If people in general had turned rabidly anti-CARD you can bet I would see that in the sales. In fact, nothing is happening - and that's another four-figure chunk of the fanbase, certainly enough to be representative.3 -
Many of these groups supported Roland to the hilt, hence their initial dislike of CARD.
But most of them have changed their minds about him, but can’t bring themselves to admit CARD might have had a point. So they attack personalities in the protest movement in any way they can. It’s bizarre.15 -
JamesSeed said:TEL said:razil said:Personally think it's time for another Valley protest. I get the argument for Belgium, but we need a show of numbers and unity by the ground, not sure the best timing or the MO for this however, although something like a march rather than a disruption on the pitch.
You have to consider that we are dealing with a man so overly confident in his own misguided business abilities that he waved the usual rights to a full due diligence report prior to buying from the Spivs....Im certain he thought he could bring off what the spivs failed to achieve re the peninsula and all the nonsense that came to light in the court case.
Combine that with the changes in the financial fair play rules (or how they are applied) and you can see that he was never expecting to have to run the football club for a sustained period...so we see all our playing assets sold off to part compensate for the old fools outgoings. If we carry on losing support in the manner that we are at the moment, then at some point he will be able to claim that football is no longer viable at the Valley...imagine our home crowds now if we were in the relegation places....3-4,000 if we are lucky.
Protesting from a distance really isn't working, (yes and Im even further away), staying away from home games isn't proving to hurt his pocket, just means he can sell players and relish our misery and I believe this guy is wealthy enough and spiteful enough to sustain this.
The other problem with boycotting is that people find other interests.....and once you break the habit of going to football every other Saturday then its going to take an almighty effort to bring those fans back.
Then there is potentially another lost generation of young support much akin to what happened when we were in exile in the Selhurst days and Trumpton Park.
I respect some of the things CARD has done but not all.....Im not a CARD basher so to speak, but I do think from what I read online that they are now representing a diminishing number of fans. The hardcore pro CARD support are definitely here in CL and thats why Razil's suggestion won't be appreciated.
I personally believe that Razil is right...a show of unity is now essential and in numbers. I fear that as AKFA's earlier post stated, many people now take every opportunity to slag off CARD elsewhere, so maybe its time for them to call for unity and protest inside the ground.....they won't have many fans already committed to going to games arguing with that, (ok there will be a gobby few in a minority) but I think it will be much harder for them to convince the stay away fans to come back and make a real impact in the ground.
Protesting in numbers before the game, verbally through the game and again afterwards will bring the media spotlight back to us where it matters, The Valley.2 -
Some depressing stuff on this thread.
I’ll simply add that anyone who is “anti” any group (CARD or otherwise) that is giving up it’s time and energy to oppose Roland Duchatelet, can f right off. And then f right off again.
He is the enemy, not the fans who are trying to make him sell up and let us rebuild.21 -
Whilst i fully understand the reasoning behind it, i honestly don't see how this will make much difference to Roland.
How many season ticket holders do we have? 7k perhaps?
Lets say half renew early at say an average price of £350, that's just over 1.2m. The guys a billionaire, i'm not sure he will really give a shit. He'll probably lose more than that over June and July anyway.
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There are and always will be in any group of fans diverse and varied opinions and thoughts. I've read anti-CARD views on every forum. Some people prefer to attack, who they perceive, as personalities within CARD and CAST. There are others who strongly support CARD and use their time to further the cause, most of the above read one or more forums and social media and post according to their thought process. Then there is the group who sit in the middle, this group, in the main, want RD to sell and go, but will accept the status quo all the time RD keeps funding losses (a sort of "a club is better than no club" attitude).
Now with such diverse thoughts it will be impossible to get a total boycott of the ground or season tickets, it will also be nigh on impossible to agree on a course of action against RD. Even on here, myself included, the thought of delaying the game on Saturday could be counter-productive, and play into RD's hands. However where it appears to get to RD, from past stories, is in his own back-yard. There is never going to be a consensus of opinion about what to do, and I don't have the answers, I wish I did, however what ever action is agreed upon bear in mind that the most effective in recent protests seem to have been away from The Valley. RD has the upper-hand at the moment, in my opinion, as he owns the club and can call the shots, whether we like it or not. We know he doesn't like his Belgium bubble interrupted, could that be where a concerted effort is re-ignited?1 -
Once more I’ll say this we need a public display of force around something we can unite on.
I suggest a public meeting/rally and march to the ground. Not affecting the game but showing the level of discontent, and if possible including support for new ownership preferably with fan involvement in some way in the message. In short we neeed to broaden and demonstrate support.
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all this it won’t affect him stuff I find bizarre in reference to finances
we know he’s a penny pincher
i mean seriously duct tape on his rhythms , come on
If the finances were more flush do you think he’d be more or less likely to sell ?
Against that though if he wasn’t bothered by finances he’d lower the price and get shot of us , well that’s what a sane person would do but he is clearly not of sane mind .
hes a numbers man and it hurts he’s losing this experiment by a long way
so I’m with the hurt him in the pocket group
Some of the lameness of just carrying on and doing nothing , of our support , really beggars belief
doing anything has to be better than the doing nothing option
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When was the last Facebook group protest? Moaning about everything and doing nothing makes no difference to anything.8
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^^ with knobs on0
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razil said:Once more I’ll say this we need a public display of force around something we can unite on.
I suggest a public meeting/rally and march to the ground. Not affecting the game but showing the level of discontent, and if possible including support for new ownership preferably with fan involvement in some way in the message. In short we neeed to broaden and demonstrate support.1 -
Each other and the outside world, but just as important it’s something as many fans as possible can unite around. I’m not suggesting it shoul be the only tactic buts it is an important one.0
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oohaahmortimer said:all this it won’t affect him stuff I find bizarre in reference to finances
we know he’s a penny pincher
i mean seriously duct tape on his rhythms , come on
If the finances were more flush do you think he’d be more or less likely to sell ?
Against that though if he wasn’t bothered by finances he’d lower the price and get shot of us , well that’s what a sane person would do but he is clearly not of sane mind .
hes a numbers man and it hurts he’s losing this experiment by a long way
so I’m with the hurt him in the pocket group
Some of the lameness of just carrying on and doing nothing , of our support , really beggars belief
doing anything has to be better than the doing nothing option
Fans seem at odds with each other and the club continues to decline with no sale as yet in sight.
I can't see now how you can negotiate a sale with him at a reasonable price and what protests can do short of physically forcing him to sell.
Do we have any psychologists who can explain how to deal with RD?
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surely if you dont want to boycott then just pay per match then you are not enabling him to continue .if he gets 5000[renewed seasontickets] x £500 [for ease of mathmatics] then that is £2.5 million.if he gets 5000x£20 on the first match hev gets 100000 so the cash flow causes a problem.Whilst I strongly disagree with those who wont boycott as they either dont believe it makes a difference of just cant do without their "fix" I do have some sympathty .But if you buy a season ticket for the convenience then "shme on you" as it just perpetuates the myth that he can do whatever he wants and still they [the punters] will buy their season tickets.
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The balloon demo would have been good for the Sky game, so would a show of red cards of Roland out. Too late now.
The best idea I can come up with is a minutes silence at kick off.0 -
Just to get back to the initial post as when so many people offer up their own views and thoughts it can get lost, this is what forums are for so no problem with that.
No-one has called for a boycott, the message was to urge, not tell people to withhold buying a season ticket until there is a clear idea of what next seasons ownership is offering.
Only one person has demanded anything in the last week or so and that's Duchatalet who says we represent 2% of his time yet is 100% behind any split in the fan base, would anyone really want to fund his ownership earlier than is really necessary?5 - Sponsored links:
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oohaahmortimer said:all this it won’t affect him stuff I find bizarre in reference to finances
we know he’s a penny pincher
i mean seriously duct tape on his rhythms , come on
If the finances were more flush do you think he’d be more or less likely to sell ?
Against that though if he wasn’t bothered by finances he’d lower the price and get shot of us , well that’s what a sane person would do but he is clearly not of sane mind .
hes a numbers man and it hurts he’s losing this experiment by a long way
so I’m with the hurt him in the pocket group
Some of the lameness of just carrying on and doing nothing , of our support , really beggars belief
doing anything has to be better than the doing nothing option
2k don't renew, never mind, he'll sell Taylor. A few more don't renew, never mind, he'll sell Aribo. He's probably already thinking about who he can sell.
And i say this as someone who doesn't have a ST, so it's not as if i'm firmly in the 'i must keep my seat' camp. I just don't think the money bothers him that much, given the clubs monthly losses.
And no one is saying just sit back and do nothing. I'm 100% convinced that protests/action against him in Belgium is the only thing that bothers him.0 -
razil said:Each other and the outside world, but just as important it’s something as many fans as possible can unite around. I’m not suggesting it shoul be the only tactic buts it is an important one.1
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JamesSeed said:razil said:Each other and the outside world, but just as important it’s something as many fans as possible can unite around. I’m not suggesting it shoul be the only tactic buts it is an important one.3
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We have tried boycotting (although I didn’t much) and it hasn’t worked. As others have said, the revenue from tickets isn’t enough to force Roland to sell. He’s clearly a spiteful wanker otherwise he would cut his losses and reduce his price.
I didnt agree with the criminal damage but it does force a reaction. I’m not sure what the answer is anymore but I don’t think a boycott is going to work, if anything it will just harm the team further.0 -
cafcfan1990 said:We have tried boycotting (although I didn’t much) and it hasn’t worked. As others have said, the revenue from tickets isn’t enough to force Roland to sell. He’s clearly a spiteful wanker otherwise he would cut his losses and reduce his price.
I didnt agree with the criminal damage but it does force a reaction. I’m not sure what the answer is anymore but I don’t think a boycott is going to work, if anything it will just harm the team further.
The only way to make him sell seems to be to physically force him to sign a sale document.
I remain genuinely concerned at what bizarre exit strategy he will come up with.2 -
cafcfan1990 said:We have tried boycotting (although I didn’t much) and it hasn’t worked. As others have said, the revenue from tickets isn’t enough to force Roland to sell. He’s clearly a spiteful wanker otherwise he would cut his losses and reduce his price.
I didnt agree with the criminal damage but it does force a reaction. I’m not sure what the answer is anymore but I don’t think a boycott is going to work, if anything it will just harm the team further.0 -
razil said:JamesSeed said:razil said:Each other and the outside world, but just as important it’s something as many fans as possible can unite around. I’m not suggesting it shoul be the only tactic buts it is an important one.
Rather you than me, of course.1 -
Chris_from_Sidcup said:oohaahmortimer said:all this it won’t affect him stuff I find bizarre in reference to finances
we know he’s a penny pincher
i mean seriously duct tape on his rhythms , come on
If the finances were more flush do you think he’d be more or less likely to sell ?
Against that though if he wasn’t bothered by finances he’d lower the price and get shot of us , well that’s what a sane person would do but he is clearly not of sane mind .
hes a numbers man and it hurts he’s losing this experiment by a long way
so I’m with the hurt him in the pocket group
Some of the lameness of just carrying on and doing nothing , of our support , really beggars belief
doing anything has to be better than the doing nothing option
2k don't renew, never mind, he'll sell Taylor. A few more don't renew, never mind, he'll sell Aribo. He's probably already thinking about who he can sell.
And i say this as someone who doesn't have a ST, so it's not as if i'm firmly in the 'i must keep my seat' camp. I just don't think the money bothers him that much, given the clubs monthly losses.
And no one is saying just sit back and do nothing. I'm 100% convinced that protests/action against him in Belgium is the only thing that bothers him.0 -
Roland is the Squire of St Truiden. It is his universe. His magic triangle is his flat, his stadium complex, and his hotel. He has, ahem, 'influence' over the local officials and structures, and many locals satisfy him by showing deference in one way or another. It isn't only a narrow world view he has, but a narrow world.
We could do with experts on Belgian law, but I agree that even if it doesn't get him to sell, action in his home town would at least be an opportunity for us to express how we feel.
As well as Roland, Dreisen needs attention too.17 -
The only real way that a match boycott would be of use is if every single fan were not to turn up. That would create a media story probably across the football world and would massively embarrass shitbag.
It will never happen. I will support card and pick and choose my matches and stand by whatever any other fan chooses to do until RD is gone.2