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Checking ID at The Valley
Comments
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swords_alive said:"Committed to offering affordable football to our supporters" !
£27..
£30 Saturday as it is a gold game.swords_alive said:"Committed to offering affordable football to our supporters" !
£27..
Bargain in my opinion.0 -
and it's £15 for my 15yo boy!!!!
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I’m complaining about the way the club did not warn people of ID checks when they haven’t required ID for the previous 3000 visits.Halix said:
But you cant then complain when the club checks, and you get caught.oohaahmortimer said:
Exactly , as someone who has spent a fair amount on Charlton guff over the years and now spends the bare minimum cos of the clown owner i’d happily diddle Roland / the club out of dough if I knew I could get away with it .Airman Brown said:
On that logic they would also be wrong to boycott the shop, lounges, sponsorship and refreshments because it hurts “the club”. It all helps Duchatelet.RodneyCharltonTrotta said:
It's a bit like saying people commit benefit fraud or tax evasion because they don't like a particlar government's spending polices.SoundAsa£ said:
I can honestly say that cheating the club that I love and has been a huge part of my my life for the last 62 years would be totally alien to me......I ain’t a Goody two Shoes by any means but wilfully going out of my way to cheat CAFC out of so much as a brass farthing just isn’t on my list of things to do.suzisausage said:
How can they root out the scum without checking people?LenGlover said:
Why should decent, law abiding people be inconvenienced because of the activities of criminal scum?East_Stand_Loopy said:
Sorry, wrong. The issue here is people defrauding the club, and the club trying to clamp down on it.Baldybonce said:
The issue here is with people who have a legit ticket not being allowed in because they can't prove their age.Halix said:
But they do know they are falsely buying a cheaper ticket by lying about their age and that at some stage the club may wish this practice to stop, and enforce checks.oohaahmortimer said:
When people buy a match ticket on an ad hoc basis they don't scour the club site for info on what is required , where was this warning , I never received itsam3110 said:If you want to buy a ticket that requires you to be in a certain age bracket, expect to be questioned if you don't look that age/are borderline on that age.
They put out a warning before the first game of the season, what more could they have done?
I think a clear alert when you buy a concession ticket online as to the requirements of ID being needed would make sense and that is what more can be done
apologies if it already is
What sort of ID is a 16 year old supposed to carry.
Yes, your son has got the wrong end of it, but in the future he can take his passport, or some sort of ID to prove his age.
Take any complaints with those who think being a crook is in any way cool, or clever...
That's a big problem of society today in my opinion. Broad brush approach inconveniencing everyone rather than rooting out and punishing the scum.
I agree they need to advertise more widely they are clamping down on those sneakies, but it doesn't sit right with me criticizing the club for trying to find out who is taking advantage of the club.
I don’t get those who justify doing so by implying they are cheating Duchatalet and not the club. Oh come on, I ain’t having that, who are you kidding.....let’s be honest here, you’d do it anyway......... Duchatalet or no Duchatalet.
It's the same as people who nick tv through kodi or pirate sports events or bunk the trains...just a sense of entitlement that they deserve it and are justified in the reasons for doing so and the rest of the mugs who pay subscriptions to allow the services to be created and sustained in the first place are mugs.
Couldn't give a monkey's really but the self convincing justification for diddling our club or tv companies etc are very flimsy and are similar in mindset to those who develop justifications for taking what they haven't paid for because they're entitled.
One thing bunking in as a skint kid but consciously doing your own club out of dough as an adult is weird to me despite whatever flaky justification is imagined.
in fact since there is virtually no cost of sale to an individual ticket and no opportunity cost someone paying a concession price instead of staying away entirely is doing him a favour.
my small way of saying fuck you , you’ve bent the love of my life over and fucked it in front of me whilst not bothered about the stress caused to me and my family .
others can be bought and turn a blind eye , not me
we all have different Charlton moral compasses but limiting every penny that prick gets from me is my way of living with my Charlton self .
its simple, a bit of notice is required to warn people with concession tickets that they will require ID , it’s common sense and courtesy .
i have no complaint with checks or getting caught but letting people know what is required is just simple stuff but I guess simple stuff is hard for some to comprehend
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Did you know, London used to be called Londinium?RodneyCharltonTrotta said:
Ha!i_b_b_o_r_g said:
We used to bunk in to watch the video on the history of the Thames, down the Thames Barrier visitors center before realising, after 4 / 5 years, that it was free entreeRodneyCharltonTrotta said:Not meaning to be holier than thou on this as I have done loads of stuff by the same logic over the years as I imagine everyone has in various aspects of life.1 -
...or Woolwichstan used to be known as simply, Woolwich?i_b_b_o_r_g said:
Did you know, London used to be called Londinium?RodneyCharltonTrotta said:
Ha!i_b_b_o_r_g said:
We used to bunk in to watch the video on the history of the Thames, down the Thames Barrier visitors center before realising, after 4 / 5 years, that it was free entreeRodneyCharltonTrotta said:Not meaning to be holier than thou on this as I have done loads of stuff by the same logic over the years as I imagine everyone has in various aspects of life.1 -
I buy a student ticket and have a valid student card.
The issue is I had to go through right load of faff to send them a photo of my student card and get it linked to my account to even allow me to buy the student tickets on the website. If I buy for a friend either they have to buy separately (so the club gets the booking fee twice) or they have to get an adult ticket coz the website wint let me buy 2 student tickets.
I don't tend to carry my student card round with me as i thought I'd already jumped through their hoops.2 -
I wouldn’t have any confidence in the stewards doing the checks understanding the ticketing policy anyway. They are most likely to focus on age. When it comes to ambulant disabled and helpers - or even people in wheelchairs - will they ask to see proof of disability? Unwise if so.cantersaddick said:I buy a student ticket and have a valid student card.
The issue is I had to go through right load of faff to send them a photo of my student card and get it linked to my account to even allow me to buy the student tickets on the website. If I buy for a friend either they have to buy separately (so the club gets the booking fee twice) or they have to get an adult ticket coz the website wint let me buy 2 student tickets.
I don't tend to carry my student card round with me as i thought I'd already jumped through their hoops.1 -
Yeah that student card must weigh a ton to carry about.1
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Well sure I'll carry it around now I know. But if I had turned up on Wednesday without it I wonder if I would have been let in even though the club had already checked it prior to purchase.iaitch said:Yeah that student card must weigh a ton to carry about.0 -
The point I'm trying to make is do one or the other.
If they are going to make me jump through a load of hoops online in order to buy the tickets then I don't expect to be checked when I enter the ground.
If they're gonna check me upon entry then allow me to buy the ticket easily and buy student tickets for my friends too.7 - Sponsored links:
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The ambulant disabled situation is ridiculous unless you are receiving some kind of benefit.Airman Brown said:
I wouldn’t have any confidence in the stewards doing the checks understanding the ticketing policy anyway. They are most likely to focus on age. When it comes to ambulant disabled and helpers - or even people in wheelchairs - will they ask to see proof of disability? Unwise if so.cantersaddick said:I buy a student ticket and have a valid student card.
The issue is I had to go through right load of faff to send them a photo of my student card and get it linked to my account to even allow me to buy the student tickets on the website. If I buy for a friend either they have to buy separately (so the club gets the booking fee twice) or they have to get an adult ticket coz the website wint let me buy 2 student tickets.
I don't tend to carry my student card round with me as i thought I'd already jumped through their hoops.
The Club don't follow their own Charter.0 -
Exactly this.East_Stand_Loopy said:Why are people criticising the club?
Surely they should be blaming those who are ripping off the club, and other supporters?
They have screwed over other fans who have paid good money for their tickets.0 -
It seems it was, probably should have been re-iterated over social media and made more clear though.oohaahmortimer said:I think it's right that people should have the right ticket but when it's a change of policy that leads to arseyness officialdom I think it's best to communicate to your customers what is required of them0 -
That's fine and dandy (apart from the, in my opinion, important principle of why the hell should the innocent be inconvenienced) if you have the financial resources and technological abilities to operate a phone with such a capacity.Redrobo said:
I think they may know exactly what they are doing. Cheap enforcement that has got everyone talking about it and no one on this site can complain about being challenged again.Henry Irving said:I know people, not me, who were paying full price for the most expensive East Stand tickets but in protest switched to the cheapest Covered End lower seats but sit elsewhere.
They are only doing that because of Duchatelet, no other reason. They didn't do it under the previous owners at all.
Yes, some people will always dodge tax, train fares etc etc and try to justify it but at Charlton the situation is very different.
As usual with this regime, they do things without bothering to think of the consequences or listening to those who have.
It is easy. Copy to your phone a passport, driving license, bus pass etc or take copies.
If your kids do not have any of these, consider getting them an identity card from ‘My ID’. Useful if they want to go to the pictures, buy games etc and ensure they get the cheap travel they are entitled too when they are out and about. Costs £15. You can also get one for over 18s so they can buy beer etc when they are fortunate to look younger. Can apply to old gits as well!
No excuses now.
There will be plenty of over 65s (exhibit A) with a pay as you go basic mobile phone for emergency use only.
Furthermore what is 'acceptable' ID? I have a bank card with my surname and intitials on it. My season ticket has my christian name and surname on it. Will that suffice or will the conflict between initials and full name prohibit my entry to the ground at the whim of the jackbooted operative on the gate?
It is an absolute disgrace that paid up season ticket holders should be subjected to such indignity, hassle and inconvenience.
My understanding when I last read the terms and conditions was that season tickets could be used by other people in the same category or if an upgrade was paid on the day. Has that stopped now?
If so then the Club had better get ready to refund some season tickets because I know plenty of people who (legitimately under those old terms and conditions) share season tickets as they cannot make every match because they work away etc etc.0 -
It’s very hard to get any message across and in the case of people attending a football match there is part of the audience which simply won’t receive messages like this unless they are given with the ticket at point of sale.Dazzler21 said:
It seems it was, probably should have been re-iterated over social media and made more clear though.oohaahmortimer said:I think it's right that people should have the right ticket but when it's a change of policy that leads to arseyness officialdom I think it's best to communicate to your customers what is required of them
A sensible approach therefore would be not to enforce the policy early on unless the discrepancy is obvious - a clear adult with a child ticket for example - and hammer away with the message in the background. Putting it out before the Stoke game isn’t going to do the job for the season. As with a lot of the club’s messaging, it assumes a level of attention that only exists among a core group.
The club should be making very clear today that adult tickets tomorrow will be £30 (since it apparently believes this price is defensible), not advertising a £22 price that isn’t available in practice to a single adult purchaser even in advance. Otherwise it risks having rows at the ticket windows and irate fans walking away.
If the club wants fans to be honest it should at least be so itself.
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swords_alive said:"Committed to offering affordable football to our supporters" !
£27.
Too expensive for me I’m afraid.0 -
swords_alive said:"Committed to offering affordable football to our supporters" !
£27..
To be fair, Millwall vs QPR starts at £29 which I think is their equivalent of a gold game.
I guess it's competitive, and the club did sell season tickets at league one prices earlier in the year. Covered end for £375 all season definitely was a bargain in my opinion.
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Me too, let alone £30. Clearly no strategy in place (nor CEO, nor finance team etc), despite all these years of engagement and comms and the '20s plenty' campaign. Still the default approach is to rip off fans, discourage the first attendance and repeat attendances. Few clubs get that basic point, nor does anyone just looking at the cost of their season ticket.T_C_E said:swords_alive said:"Committed to offering affordable football to our supporters" !
£27.
Too expensive for me I’m afraid.
Football is addictive and life changing for many but it needs to accessible. (And that doesn't mean just season ticket prices).0 -
So I buy an under 11 ticket for a seat next to 3 season ticket holders with the same surname.Redrobo said:
I think they may know exactly what they are doing. Cheap enforcement that has got everyone talking about it and no one on this site can complain about being challenged again.Henry Irving said:I know people, not me, who were paying full price for the most expensive East Stand tickets but in protest switched to the cheapest Covered End lower seats but sit elsewhere.
They are only doing that because of Duchatelet, no other reason. They didn't do it under the previous owners at all.
Yes, some people will always dodge tax, train fares etc etc and try to justify it but at Charlton the situation is very different.
As usual with this regime, they do things without bothering to think of the consequences or listening to those who have.
It is easy. Copy to your phone a passport, driving license, bus pass etc or take copies.
If your kids do not have any of these, consider getting them an identity card from ‘My ID’. Useful if they want to go to the pictures, buy games etc and ensure they get the cheap travel they are entitled too when they are out and about. Costs £15. You can also get one for over 18s so they can buy beer etc when they are fortunate to look younger. Can apply to old gits as well!
No excuses now.
Rang to purchase this morning as not allowed to do so online as stated earlier.
No problem. No questioning as to child's age.
No advice to bring some ID tomorrow in case the ticket is checked.
And no ID for said grandchild anyway....as no passport held.
Why on earth would I want to go to the expense of purchasing an identity card for £15 in case their ticket is questioned for ONE football match ? Absolutely insane.
As others have stated, it's as though the club doesn't want to encourage our supporters of the future to attend games....
7 - Sponsored links:
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I did say or take a copy as well. Library’s have photocopiers and will do for you for a couple of pence. Have you got a bus pass?LenGlover said:
That's fine and dandy (apart from the, in my opinion, important principle of why the hell should the innocent be inconvenienced) if you have the financial resources and technological abilities to operate a phone with such a capacity.Redrobo said:
I think they may know exactly what they are doing. Cheap enforcement that has got everyone talking about it and no one on this site can complain about being challenged again.Henry Irving said:I know people, not me, who were paying full price for the most expensive East Stand tickets but in protest switched to the cheapest Covered End lower seats but sit elsewhere.
They are only doing that because of Duchatelet, no other reason. They didn't do it under the previous owners at all.
Yes, some people will always dodge tax, train fares etc etc and try to justify it but at Charlton the situation is very different.
As usual with this regime, they do things without bothering to think of the consequences or listening to those who have.
It is easy. Copy to your phone a passport, driving license, bus pass etc or take copies.
If your kids do not have any of these, consider getting them an identity card from ‘My ID’. Useful if they want to go to the pictures, buy games etc and ensure they get the cheap travel they are entitled too when they are out and about. Costs £15. You can also get one for over 18s so they can buy beer etc when they are fortunate to look younger. Can apply to old gits as well!
No excuses now.
There will be plenty of over 65s (exhibit A) with a pay as you go basic mobile phone for emergency use only.
Furthermore what is 'acceptable' ID? I have a bank card with my surname and intitials on it. My season ticket has my christian name and surname on it. Will that suffice or will the conflict between initials and full name prohibit my entry to the ground at the whim of the jackbooted operative on the gate?
It is an absolute disgrace that paid up season ticket holders should be subjected to such indignity, hassle and inconvenience.
My understanding when I last read the terms and conditions was that season tickets could be used by other people in the same category or if an upgrade was paid on the day. Has that stopped now?
If so then the Club had better get ready to refund some season tickets because I know plenty of people who (legitimately under those old terms and conditions) share season tickets as they cannot make every match because they work away etc etc.
There is no change to upgrading tickets, the issue is with those who don’t. How do you think the club should check a season ticket that is loaned is being used by someone else that fits the criteria? No point in your mate showing his bank card is there?
Now you know, get yourself and your friends sorted, it really isn’t that difficult and I am sure you will know someone who will help you out if it is. You could even ask the club to copy something for you. That would be fun!
At least you won’t have so many whipper snappers sitting next to you having paid a fiver. 🤔
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£26 to members in advance, but how successful would you say Millwall have been at selling tickets over the years? Their attendances and ticket revenue were consistently lower than Charlton’s until the last couple of years (L1 v Championship). I’ll guarantee it will revert this season.DoctorCharlton said:swords_alive said:"Committed to offering affordable football to our supporters" !
£27..
To be fair, Millwall vs QPR starts at £29 which I think is their equivalent of a gold game.
I guess it's competitive, and the club did sell season tickets at league one prices earlier in the year. Covered end for £375 all season definitely was a bargain in my opinion.
I’m not a fan of the “benchmark against other clubs” line because it ignores the fact that other clubs operate in different circumstances. There is an argument for testing the market but I very much doubt that a £30-£37 price range on the day against Brentford does the club any favours. You only need to deter 10 per cent of would-be adult purchasers because of the increase to make a negative impact on revenue. Brentford are no one’s idea of elite opposition except the decision-makers at Charlton.2 -
I was talking about ME showing my bank card.Redrobo said:
I did say or take a copy as well. Library’s have photocopiers and will do for you for a couple of pence. Have you got a bus pass?LenGlover said:
That's fine and dandy (apart from the, in my opinion, important principle of why the hell should the innocent be inconvenienced) if you have the financial resources and technological abilities to operate a phone with such a capacity.Redrobo said:
I think they may know exactly what they are doing. Cheap enforcement that has got everyone talking about it and no one on this site can complain about being challenged again.Henry Irving said:I know people, not me, who were paying full price for the most expensive East Stand tickets but in protest switched to the cheapest Covered End lower seats but sit elsewhere.
They are only doing that because of Duchatelet, no other reason. They didn't do it under the previous owners at all.
Yes, some people will always dodge tax, train fares etc etc and try to justify it but at Charlton the situation is very different.
As usual with this regime, they do things without bothering to think of the consequences or listening to those who have.
It is easy. Copy to your phone a passport, driving license, bus pass etc or take copies.
If your kids do not have any of these, consider getting them an identity card from ‘My ID’. Useful if they want to go to the pictures, buy games etc and ensure they get the cheap travel they are entitled too when they are out and about. Costs £15. You can also get one for over 18s so they can buy beer etc when they are fortunate to look younger. Can apply to old gits as well!
No excuses now.
There will be plenty of over 65s (exhibit A) with a pay as you go basic mobile phone for emergency use only.
Furthermore what is 'acceptable' ID? I have a bank card with my surname and intitials on it. My season ticket has my christian name and surname on it. Will that suffice or will the conflict between initials and full name prohibit my entry to the ground at the whim of the jackbooted operative on the gate?
It is an absolute disgrace that paid up season ticket holders should be subjected to such indignity, hassle and inconvenience.
My understanding when I last read the terms and conditions was that season tickets could be used by other people in the same category or if an upgrade was paid on the day. Has that stopped now?
If so then the Club had better get ready to refund some season tickets because I know plenty of people who (legitimately under those old terms and conditions) share season tickets as they cannot make every match because they work away etc etc.
There is no change to upgrading tickets, the issue is with those who don’t. How do you think the club should check a season ticket that is loaned is being used by someone else that fits the criteria? No point in your mate showing his bank card is there?
Now you know, get yourself and your friends sorted, it really isn’t that difficult and I am sure you will know someone who will help you out if it is. You could even ask the club to copy something for you. That would be fun!
At least you won’t have so many whipper snappers sitting next to you having paid a fiver. 🤔
I am a paid up legitimate 'customer' to use the Club's favoured word. Why should I be inconvenienced?0 -
RodneyCharltonTrotta said:Not meaning to be holier than thou on this as I have done loads of stuff by the same logic over the years as I imagine everyone has in various aspects of life.
A big difference though when it comes to something or someone you love or respect.0 -
Wanted to return this season could have stretched the finances to meet the previous over 60s s/t (birth certificate available 😉) but now I don’t qualify sadly it’s out of my remit as a pensioner. Match by match looks that way too now, I even joined VP which I cancelled as he opened his mouth on theswords_alive said:
Me too, let alone £30. Clearly no strategy in place (nor CEO, nor finance team etc), despite all these years of engagement and comms and the '20s plenty' campaign. Still the default approach is to rip off fans, discourage the first attendance and repeat attendances. Few clubs get it. Football is addictive and life changing for many but it needs to accessible. (And that doesn't mean just season ticket prices).T_C_E said:swords_alive said:"Committed to offering affordable football to our supporters" !
£27.
Too expensive for me I’m afraid.
“Duchataway & White “Show”0 -
"£26 to members in advance, but how successful would you say Millwall have been at selling tickets over the years? Their attendances and ticket revenue were consistently lower than Charlton’s until the last couple of years (L1 v Championship). I’ll guarantee it will revert this season.
I’m not a fan of the “benchmark against other clubs” line because it ignores the fact that other clubs operate in different circumstances. There is an argument for testing the market but I very much doubt that a £30-£37 price range on the day against Brentford does the club any favours. You only need to deter 10 per cent of would-be adult purchasers because of the increase to make a negative impact on revenue. Brentford are no one’s idea of elite opposition except the decision-makers at Charlton."To be fair our esteemed manager rates them above Rangers for someone wanting to make upward progress in their career from Charlton
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Needs to be questioned at the next fans forum whenever that is? The asking for id for kids & turning them away I mean! Talk about alienating your future customers!!!!0
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Personally I would think that would be fine and I would be very unchuffed if they did not accept it from me, but you will be dealing with meatheads. You could ask the club or just take the chance. Up to you of course. Hopefully you will not be inconvenienced at all.LenGlover said:
I was talking about ME showing my bank card.Redrobo said:
I did say or take a copy as well. Library’s have photocopiers and will do for you for a couple of pence. Have you got a bus pass?LenGlover said:
That's fine and dandy (apart from the, in my opinion, important principle of why the hell should the innocent be inconvenienced) if you have the financial resources and technological abilities to operate a phone with such a capacity.Redrobo said:
I think they may know exactly what they are doing. Cheap enforcement that has got everyone talking about it and no one on this site can complain about being challenged again.Henry Irving said:I know people, not me, who were paying full price for the most expensive East Stand tickets but in protest switched to the cheapest Covered End lower seats but sit elsewhere.
They are only doing that because of Duchatelet, no other reason. They didn't do it under the previous owners at all.
Yes, some people will always dodge tax, train fares etc etc and try to justify it but at Charlton the situation is very different.
As usual with this regime, they do things without bothering to think of the consequences or listening to those who have.
It is easy. Copy to your phone a passport, driving license, bus pass etc or take copies.
If your kids do not have any of these, consider getting them an identity card from ‘My ID’. Useful if they want to go to the pictures, buy games etc and ensure they get the cheap travel they are entitled too when they are out and about. Costs £15. You can also get one for over 18s so they can buy beer etc when they are fortunate to look younger. Can apply to old gits as well!
No excuses now.
There will be plenty of over 65s (exhibit A) with a pay as you go basic mobile phone for emergency use only.
Furthermore what is 'acceptable' ID? I have a bank card with my surname and intitials on it. My season ticket has my christian name and surname on it. Will that suffice or will the conflict between initials and full name prohibit my entry to the ground at the whim of the jackbooted operative on the gate?
It is an absolute disgrace that paid up season ticket holders should be subjected to such indignity, hassle and inconvenience.
My understanding when I last read the terms and conditions was that season tickets could be used by other people in the same category or if an upgrade was paid on the day. Has that stopped now?
If so then the Club had better get ready to refund some season tickets because I know plenty of people who (legitimately under those old terms and conditions) share season tickets as they cannot make every match because they work away etc etc.
There is no change to upgrading tickets, the issue is with those who don’t. How do you think the club should check a season ticket that is loaned is being used by someone else that fits the criteria? No point in your mate showing his bank card is there?
Now you know, get yourself and your friends sorted, it really isn’t that difficult and I am sure you will know someone who will help you out if it is. You could even ask the club to copy something for you. That would be fun!
At least you won’t have so many whipper snappers sitting next to you having paid a fiver. 🤔
I am a paid up legitimate 'customer' to use the Club's favoured word. Why should I be inconvenienced?
Looking At the terms and conditions it looks like there is nothing about ID checks after you have purchased a season ticket? Does anyone know of any one that was?0 -
More to do with the opposition in the SPL.Froggy66 said:"£26 to members in advance, but how successful would you say Millwall have been at selling tickets over the years? Their attendances and ticket revenue were consistently lower than Charlton’s until the last couple of years (L1 v Championship). I’ll guarantee it will revert this season.
I’m not a fan of the “benchmark against other clubs” line because it ignores the fact that other clubs operate in different circumstances. There is an argument for testing the market but I very much doubt that a £30-£37 price range on the day against Brentford does the club any favours. You only need to deter 10 per cent of would-be adult purchasers because of the increase to make a negative impact on revenue. Brentford are no one’s idea of elite opposition except the decision-makers at Charlton."To be fair our esteemed manager rates them above Rangers for someone wanting to make upward progress in their career from Charlton
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More to do with the fee, some of which Bowyer may have got.Airman Brown said:
More to do with the opposition in the SPL.Froggy66 said:"£26 to members in advance, but how successful would you say Millwall have been at selling tickets over the years? Their attendances and ticket revenue were consistently lower than Charlton’s until the last couple of years (L1 v Championship). I’ll guarantee it will revert this season.
I’m not a fan of the “benchmark against other clubs” line because it ignores the fact that other clubs operate in different circumstances. There is an argument for testing the market but I very much doubt that a £30-£37 price range on the day against Brentford does the club any favours. You only need to deter 10 per cent of would-be adult purchasers because of the increase to make a negative impact on revenue. Brentford are no one’s idea of elite opposition except the decision-makers at Charlton."To be fair our esteemed manager rates them above Rangers for someone wanting to make upward progress in their career from Charlton
1
