Now, the Bulgarian Football Union has been charged following home supporters' "racist behaviour", which includes chants and Nazi salutes, "throwing of objects", "disruption of national anthem" as well as "replays on giant screen" during the game. But lets charge England so it does not look so bad for Bulgaria
Walking off the pitch is giving in! Staying on the pitch is giving in! Ignoring it is giving in!
It's all nonsense. It's a shitty situation and there's no right answer for dealing with it, and no criticism should be levelled at the people who had to make a decision in that situation.
It's down to the governing body to figure out a suitable punishment for supporters who do this stuff. The only criticism I would have is UEFA's pathetic past approach that has allowed this to continue, not the people who had to make a call that would never please everybody.
I hope that, when Gareth Southgate faces the UEFA investigation that will, no doubt, follow, he waits until they are just about half-way through it, turns and walks out of the room.
Am I being whooshed or is that for real? Unbelievable. '
UEFA is not fit for purpose.
If true (?) despite obviously being in poor taste, is any rule actually broken here? I mean I’ve been to lots of England away games and the away teams anthem obviously goes first and has been booed/whistled through plenty of times, inc by Scotland, ROI and Wales etc.
Fair comment Len - it's not quite the same as you are claiming of course, but on this occasion they could have used common sense and let it slide with a quiet word in the FA's "ear".
Next time we play one of these backward shithole countries, we should try and find a way where we only play black players and absolutely smash them, after all, they are about conference level. Maybe we should formulate a black XI and submit it to Southgate?
Firstly, I heard our fans booing their anthem as I heard theirs booing ours. Totally disrespectful and deserving of some sort of sanction. But this should have been announced after Bulgaria's punishment and suggests there won't be one. I hope I am wrong here.
Next time we play one of these backward shithole countries, we should try and find a way where we only play black players and absolutely smash them, after all, they are about conference level. Maybe we should formulate a black XI and submit it to Southgate?
Balakov (Bulgaria manager) said that England fans deserve their fair share of the criticism for their conduct in the Vasil Levski National Stadium.
"I also have to say the unacceptable behaviour was not only on the behalf of Bulgarian fans but also the English fans, who were whistling and chanting during the national anthem and used words against our fans in the second half which I found unacceptable,"
So this utter bellend couldn't hear his own fans racist abuse but could hear what England fans were saying in the second half?
I hope it will be obvious that I am not defending UEFA in the following, but I think I can see what's going on here. Bulgarians have a massive victimhood and inferiority complex in international situations and go in for a huge amount of "whataboutery".This is the same sort of shit you get from Russia, and Bulgaria is the EU country Russians feel most at home in. Black Sea coast in summer is crawling with them. You saw those stickers "UEFA Mafia" above. They tell themselves that they are victims of double standards by "The West". UEFA is seen as discriminating against proud little Balkan countries while letting big England off lightly for what they see as the same transgressions. I'm not saying that is anything other than bollocks but try telling them that. I gave up on that a long time ago.
Unfortunately it is a fact that many England fans did disrespect their anthem. I winced when I heard it loud and clear on the radio, and the 5 Live people called it out pretty sharply (while commenting too that they did not do it in Prague).
I could well imagine that UEFA are telling themselves that if they don't rap England on the knuckles for that, the Bulgarians will go nuclear on the whataboutery. The proof of the pudding will be the respective punishments.
I hope it will be obvious that I am not defending UEFA in the following, but I think I can see what's going on here. Bulgarians have a massive victimhood and inferiority complex in international situations and go in for a huge amount of "whataboutery".This is the same sort of shit you get from Russia, and Bulgaria is the EU country Russians feel most at home in. Black Sea coast in summer is crawling with them. You saw those stickers "UEFA Mafia" above. They tell themselves that they are victims of double standards by "The West". UEFA is seen as discriminating against proud little Balkan countries while letting big England off lightly for what they see as the same transgressions. I'm not saying that is anything other than bollocks but try telling them that. I gave up on that a long time ago.
Unfortunately it is a fact that many England fans did disrespect their anthem. I winced when I heard it loud and clear on the radio, and the 5 Live people called it out pretty sharply (while commenting too that they did not do it in Prague).
I could well imagine that UEFA are telling themselves that if they don't rap England on the knuckles for that, the Bulgarians will go nuclear on the whataboutery. The proof of the pudding will be the respective punishments.
To summarise: UEFA have no balls!!
Had Bulgaria moaned about us getting off over the Anthems; UEFA should have turned round saying that their fans shouldnt have booed our Anthem first and so stir up trouble
It’s a shame they didn’t walk off in second half - I’ve heard the reasoning why they didn’t - the rule should be changed so that the result stands for the team walking off - if it’s reached stage 3 then the authorities should know where the 3rd and final racist shout is coming from - the offending team and majority of fans could then take it up with the offender/s thereafter - would make them think twice.
How did we tackle racism on the terraces? I know Charlton introduced a zero tolerance to it. Also the culture had to change within fans themselves. But we know that there is a lot of racism in this country, both on the extreme and less extreme levels. I have no doubt we still have racists going to games but they know they can't openly show it or they will a) get kicked out and banned, and b) they will be challenged by other fans. If they ever feel that they can, they will so you never solve the problem until you cure the disease of racism. There is an element of strength in numbers, and the fans walking out of the stadium on Monday seemed to be part of some group. So maybe targetting that group is a step Bulgaria can take.
I think there is a point that Prague makes. The behaviour of England fans abroad is a constant worry even if it has been greatly improved. Booing the national anthem of Bulgaria was a disgrace even though it was by a minority and on a different level, but maybe we should be doing something about some of the arseholes that represent us abroad too. I know that can be a controversial point, but for me the fact is controversial is part of the problem. I would love to watch England away, but I wouldn't want to stand side by side the sort of people who go to another country and disrespect it.
And I know from past discussions that there are no shortage of people, even on this site, who are more than happy to defend these idiots. But whilst we do have work to do, we can't excuse the racist behaviour that seems to be growing in the east of Europe. Maybe we could help them with our knowledge and experience though. And if they don't want to be helped they deserve any sanctions they get.
Texts from my Bulgarian buddy in Sofia this morning. Some excerpts "I apologize for our racist public and congratulations for the score" after I replied, he writes back "Thank you that you understand that Bulgarian football hooligans do not represent the rest of Bulgarians but they still bring big shame for my country"
the thing is that this buddy, not the football mad one, has nevertheless been to a Charlton game with me. It was at the old Toolbox in Feb 1992. We could hardly put a team out and gave a debut to Jermain Darlington. He hardly touched the ball, and was subbed after 70 mins. He had to walk around three quarters of the perimeter and the whole Toolbox rose to acclaim him as he passed. Everyone, in every stand, they booed him because of the colour of his skin.
One of the refreshing things that has come out of the FA and Gareth Southgate is a recognition that we have a problem here as well, so it's not just about countries like Bulgaria where there is a much bigger issue with racism. How long ago was the Millwall-Everton game? I thought the players and management team dealt with it well in Bulgaria, but there have to be sanctions. Ideally, the sanctions should include the identifiable individuals doing nazi salutes but that requires Bulgaria to want to do something about it as a country (and I suspect they don't, any more than Hungary or Croatia or Serbia or Poland or Italy do). And although I was impressed with our fans chanting anti-racist stuff at the Bulgarians, there's no place for feeling superior: we are where we are because of a lot of work by players, staff and fans to make terrace racism unacceptable. There's a lot more to do and hopefully this will be a catalyst for that.
One of the refreshing things that has come out of the FA and Gareth Southgate is a recognition that we have a problem here as well, so it's not just about countries like Bulgaria where there is a much bigger issue with racism. How long ago was the Millwall-Everton game? I thought the players and management team dealt with it well in Bulgaria, but there have to be sanctions. Ideally, the sanctions should include the identifiable individuals doing nazi salutes but that requires Bulgaria to want to do something about it as a country (and I suspect they don't, any more than Hungary or Croatia or Serbia or Poland or Italy do). And although I was impressed with our fans chanting anti-racist stuff at the Bulgarians, there's no place for feeling superior: we are where we are because of a lot of work by players, staff and fans to make terrace racism unacceptable. There's a lot more to do and hopefully this will be a catalyst for that.
We have a problem in the UK but its been acknowledged and we're working on it. There seems very little desire to address it in a lot of countries.
This is a societal problem and not solely confined to football.
How many years were English clubs banned from European competitions for our scummy behavior out of curiosity? Did English National team get a ban as well or was it the league teams?
Comments
It's all nonsense. It's a shitty situation and there's no right answer for dealing with it, and no criticism should be levelled at the people who had to make a decision in that situation.
It's down to the governing body to figure out a suitable punishment for supporters who do this stuff. The only criticism I would have is UEFA's pathetic past approach that has allowed this to continue, not the people who had to make a call that would never please everybody.
Absolute joke organisation. No better than Fifa
Balakov (Bulgaria manager) said that England fans deserve their fair share of the criticism for their conduct in the Vasil Levski National Stadium.
"I also have to say the unacceptable behaviour was not only on the behalf of Bulgarian fans but also the English fans, who were whistling and chanting during the national anthem and used words against our fans in the second half which I found unacceptable,"
So this utter bellend couldn't hear his own fans racist abuse but could hear what England fans were saying in the second half?
Unfortunately it is a fact that many England fans did disrespect their anthem. I winced when I heard it loud and clear on the radio, and the 5 Live people called it out pretty sharply (while commenting too that they did not do it in Prague).
I could well imagine that UEFA are telling themselves that if they don't rap England on the knuckles for that, the Bulgarians will go nuclear on the whataboutery. The proof of the pudding will be the respective punishments.
Had Bulgaria moaned about us getting off over the Anthems; UEFA should have turned round saying that their fans shouldnt have booed our Anthem first and so stir up trouble
I think there is a point that Prague makes. The behaviour of England fans abroad is a constant worry even if it has been greatly improved. Booing the national anthem of Bulgaria was a disgrace even though it was by a minority and on a different level, but maybe we should be doing something about some of the arseholes that represent us abroad too. I know that can be a controversial point, but for me the fact is controversial is part of the problem. I would love to watch England away, but I wouldn't want to stand side by side the sort of people who go to another country and disrespect it.
And I know from past discussions that there are no shortage of people, even on this site, who are more than happy to defend these idiots. But whilst we do have work to do, we can't excuse the racist behaviour that seems to be growing in the east of Europe. Maybe we could help them with our knowledge and experience though. And if they don't want to be helped they deserve any sanctions they get.
the thing is that this buddy, not the football mad one, has nevertheless been to a Charlton game with me. It was at the old Toolbox in Feb 1992. We could hardly put a team out and gave a debut to Jermain Darlington. He hardly touched the ball, and was subbed after 70 mins. He had to walk around three quarters of the perimeter and the whole Toolbox rose to acclaim him as he passed. Everyone, in every stand, they booed him because of the colour of his skin.
And although I was impressed with our fans chanting anti-racist stuff at the Bulgarians, there's no place for feeling superior: we are where we are because of a lot of work by players, staff and fans to make terrace racism unacceptable. There's a lot more to do and hopefully this will be a catalyst for that.
i was in Marseilles with the Russian ultras kicking fuck out of people for no reason and witnessed it 1st hand
people went to wc last year and wasn't a sniff of this becuase the government would not stand for there country being embarrassed.
This is a societal problem and not solely confined to football.
Liverpool were banned for 6 years
National team not given a ban