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Luton Town v Charlton Athletic | Tuesday 26 November 2019 | Post-match thread

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    https://www.skysports.com/watch/video/sports/football/competitions/championship/11871239/luton-2-1-charlton

    shocking defending by us .. their first goal should not have stood (blatant offside, their man was about a yard from Phillips) .. terrific goal from the much maligned Leko .. Gallagher hit the post .. we were outplayed YET still could have taken a point at least .. Saturdays' game v the Owls is now a very important one .. us fans need to get right behind the team, whoever starts
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    So we are going to be without:

    Amos
    Page
    Field
    JFC
    Cullen
    Lapslie
    Kayal
    Williams
    Aneke
    Hemed
    Taylor 

    And maybe without:
    Oshilaja 
    Oztumer

    We haven't had timelines on Lapslie and Kayal so (maybe wishful thinking) hope one of them may make a surprise appearance on the bench.

    Think that the best we can hope for on saturday is something like the below.

    Phillips
    Mattthews Lockyer Pearce Purrington
    Prattley Oshilaja Morgan
    Ozzy
    Leko Bonne

    AMB Sarr Solly Vennings Doughty Davison 

    We have to pack the midfield and trust a back 4 to defend properly. Cannot afford to lose the midfield battle again - at least not because of a 3 on 4 matchup. 

    Not sure that Pratley and Deji will work together but I think we have to try it. Failing that we can go 3 at the back and maybe bring in Doughty or Vennings for Leko (not that I want to drop the guy that is scoring at the moment).

    Would love to have one of Lapslie Kayal Aneke Taylor as a surprise addition to the bench!

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    There's a lot of talk about injuries, which is fair enough, but it's not the whole story either. Injuries are playing a part, but in the end this is the same defence that held West Brom to a 2-2 draw, and the same defence that held Fulham to the same result, except with a central midfielder filling in at LWB. It's almost identical personnel-wise to the defence that helped us beat Leeds 1-0 as well. We should have been able to put up a better show against a Luton team who hadn't won in five games. The injuries are biting in attack and particularly midfield, which ramps up the pressure on the defence sure, but the basic mistakes that are being made at the back aren't caused by us throwing in an untested kid or an unfamiliar partnership. These are our first choice defenders and they're not playing to their level at the moment. I think mental fatigue can set in with the lack of rotation and the strain that knowing your team is made up of walking wounded can cause. I think Bowyer has missed a trick a bit this season in under-utilising Deji at centre half as a bit of rotation at the back would not have hurt us when we've had options available there, even if Bow feels constrained into playing 3 at the back with our midfield injuries. The players at the back need to stand up and be counted while we're unable to change games at the other end of the pitch
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    ct_addick said:
    The old adage you won't win anything with kids! Morgan gave the ball away a lot although grew into game 2nd half. Too easy for their midfield tonight. Gallagher worked his socks off and was unlucky with 2nd half strike that hit post but thought we were poor and always looked vulnerable. Poor clearance by Sarr for equalizer.  
    It was half block, half clearance (for anyone who hasn't seen it).
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    JamesSeed said:
    ct_addick said:
    The old adage you won't win anything with kids! Morgan gave the ball away a lot although grew into game 2nd half. Too easy for their midfield tonight. Gallagher worked his socks off and was unlucky with 2nd half strike that hit post but thought we were poor and always looked vulnerable. Poor clearance by Sarr for equalizer.  
    It was half block, half clearance (for anyone who hasn't seen it).
    He's just cutting a hard low ball out. Not sure what else he could do with that. Superb shot back in. 

    If there is no-one out of picture playing the prone player on-side, then it's a clear interference in front of Phillips. 
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    https://www.skysports.com/watch/video/sports/football/competitions/championship/11871239/luton-2-1-charlton

    shocking defending by us .. their first goal should not have stood (blatant offside, their man was about a yard from Phillips) .. terrific goal from the much maligned Leko .. Gallagher hit the post .. we were outplayed YET still could have taken a point at least .. Saturdays' game v the Owls is now a very important one .. us fans need to get right behind the team, whoever starts
    Absolutely outrageous call not to give offside there. Would be harsh to blame Sarr, who was on the stretch cutting the ball out, for it to fall to the scorer who made a fantastic finish.
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    Not sure with the limited options why Sarr went off when we were behind. It was an option to push him further up the pitch surely! 
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    Watched on Sky, I thought we were pretty awful. Yes we have an injury crisis, but last night it seemed we had a problem with the basics; we seemed a yard off the pace and our passing, in the main, was abysmal. Once they equalised I thought we would lose, sadly, they upped their game, and lets be honest could easily have had a few more. Our defending of set-pieces and corners is poor, their first goal came after a corner for them when we didn't clear it properly and Sarr gave the ball directly back to them. We had a couple of dodgy moments in our own area, where Dillion had to hurry up and clear the ball as we pissed about with it at the back. Overall it was a poor showing, and now we have lost Connor for this Saturday's Sky Live game....thats another big loss!  
    I've watched it a few times now, and the cross landed behind Sarr, so all he could do was block it really. Purrington was ball watching and Mpanzu got to the rebound ahead of him. If he hadn't been on his heels he could have prevented the goal probably. It's a bit harsh to say Sarr gave the ball directly back to them, for me.  

    For me the major positive was the way the change in formation when 
    Doughty came on made us look far more threatening.
    Becoming increasingly not a fan of playing a back five. Sarr is rubbish in a three CB situation, and we don't have the wing backs for it.
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    PWR - 2 points. Leko, wtf, where did that performance come from. We finished the game with three players who have been playing non league recently, enough said.
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    Just watched the highlights. Great goal from Leko there. At least one positive is that he's finding the net regularly now. Not sure Naby should be blamed for the first. He blocks the cross on the stretch, its just unfortunate it falls straight to their lad who "returns it with interest". How thats not offside is a mystery though! Second goal is sloppy and maybe the ref could have spotted the handball. Connor really unlucky to hit the woodwork, as was their lad. Our luck will turn when we get a few players back. Feel we need to go back to 442, even if it means playing Oshilaja in centre mid again. We just look more of a threat going forward with 4 in the middle. Lockyer, pearce, Sarr, solly and purrington are all so much better in a back 4 too.
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    edited November 2019
    Having watched the replays I’m  retracting my earlier criticism of Saar. He was just instinctively trying to block a shot. Others such as the usually dependable Lockyer had much worse evenings. I’m Pleased to make @Leuth’s day. We were rubbish overall though!
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    edited November 2019
    Recognising the ref's name before the game is never a good sign and this was to prove no exception.
    D England you are a farce or a crook, please desist from corrupting football matches henceforth, the game with you in it is ludicrous.
    Acknowledging the defensive frailty, Charlton were flat out rogered by woeful officials in the crucial moments.
    The lack of an offside flag for their first goal is explicable only by the lino being partially sighted or bent.
    For neither lino or ref to see the use of the hand to control the ball for the 2nd goal is only forgivable in the context of the first calumny.
    Phillips needs to play to the whistle tho, seeing the handball he stops playing to start appealing, schoolboy error, however clearly he'd seen the lowlife cheating by the hatter.
    With a team closer to moderate strength, let alone full strength, CAFC would have comfortably outscored this dross, even with the two goal handicap handed them by D England and his "assistants".  None of which recoups any points for the Addicks, nor disturbs the sleep of the wankstain officials, may they all rot in permanent humiliation and agony.
    Anyone telling me "it's only a game", better have a fireproof face and a dictionary of profanity to hand for the consequent volcano of invective.

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    Watched on Valley Pass. Re their first...at half time I wasn't sure whether Solly was the last man. But after the game, and after Terry and Greg had logged off, the EFL stream replayed the highlights several times. Solly nowhere near playing the Luton man on. In which case that ref and linesman had the goal stand because they jointly decided the guy wasn't interfering with play.

    And that, people, is why we need VAR.
    Funny that whole stadiums of people that have it are singing Fuck VAR.
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    completely agree with Redmidland and I'd add for the 2nd goal Pratley, an experienced player, got dispossessed fo the ball in mid field which lead to the goal, if he hadn't then off side wouldn't have come into it - a poor performance all round.
    Offside didn't come into it.
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    We're in a dreadful run of form and confidence seems to be evaporating. If we keep conceding soft goals the stuggle will continue.

    Cullen, Gallagher, Taylor and Williams missing on Saturday so we'll really have to battle.

    They are our best 4  players, surely? It's not true to say that we have our best 11 out though.
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    edited November 2019
    A few years ago there was a club (really can't remember which one) had a very serious player injury problem. They changed the training surface at the training ground, totally refused to use any artificial surfaces, paid close attention to the training kit, especially footwear, and guess what ? .. 'what' ? .. the injury 'crisis' improved. 
    I am not suggesting that this is exactly the same issue we have, BUT, SO MANY injuries ? .. it just cannot be simply down to bad luck or that we are always sold or lent crocked players or that our training methods and medical care are just awful.
    I would hope that the powers that be are making every effort to investigate this veritable injury plague infecting our squad and are going all out in an attempt to find answers.
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    Norwich have had massive injury problems this season, while Sheffield United haven't. Not sure that any conclusions can be drawn though about how the clubs are run.
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    A few years ago there was a club (really can't remember which one) had a very serious player injury problem. They changed the training surface at the training ground, totally refused to use any artificial surfaces, paid close attention to the training kit, especially footwear, and guess what ? .. 'what' ? .. the injury 'crisis' improved. 
    I am not suggesting that this is exactly the same issue we have, BUT, SO MANY injuries ? .. it just cannot be simply down to bad luck or that we are always sold or lent crocked players or that our training methods and medical care are just awful.
    I would hope that the powers that be are making every effort to investigate this veritable injury plague infecting our squad and are going all out in an attempt to find answers.
    I suppose you would have to look at each of the individual injuries to see if any of them are preventable, but I think a lot of them are just unfortunate.  Bowyer said that a lot of the injuries are muscle related following on from the initial injury sustained.  I'm not an expert, so I can't say whether or not these are preventable.  

    Taylor (injured on intl duty, outside of our control)
    Field (injured during a match, knee, unpreventable)
    Cullen (injured  during match, ankle ligaments, unpreventable)
    Williams (knee, injured during match and has a history of injuries so we have to expect it and it will probably continue throughout his career, regardless of what clubs he plays for)
    JFC (was badly injured last season, and got injured during a game, so you could argue unpreventable and susceptible to injuries from now on).
    Page (looks like he'll be in the Williams mould, and you question if he's now one of these players who will always be dogged with injuries)

    I don't know enough about the rest, I think stuff has been written on here elsewhere.  Perhaps some of them are victims of bad practice at our end, but highly doubt it 
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    cabbles said:
    A few years ago there was a club (really can't remember which one) had a very serious player injury problem. They changed the training surface at the training ground, totally refused to use any artificial surfaces, paid close attention to the training kit, especially footwear, and guess what ? .. 'what' ? .. the injury 'crisis' improved. 
    I am not suggesting that this is exactly the same issue we have, BUT, SO MANY injuries ? .. it just cannot be simply down to bad luck or that we are always sold or lent crocked players or that our training methods and medical care are just awful.
    I would hope that the powers that be are making every effort to investigate this veritable injury plague infecting our squad and are going all out in an attempt to find answers.
    I suppose you would have to look at each of the individual injuries to see if any of them are preventable, but I think a lot of them are just unfortunate.  Bowyer said that a lot of the injuries are muscle related following on from the initial injury sustained.  I'm not an expert, so I can't say whether or not these are preventable.  

    Taylor (injured on intl duty, outside of our control)
    Field (injured during a match, knee, unpreventable)
    Cullen (injured  during match, ankle ligaments, unpreventable)
    Williams (knee, injured during match and has a history of injuries so we have to expect it and it will probably continue throughout his career, regardless of what clubs he plays for)
    JFC (was badly injured last season, and got injured during a game, so you could argue unpreventable and susceptible to injuries from now on).
    Page (looks like he'll be in the Williams mould, and you question if he's now one of these players who will always be dogged with injuries)

    I don't know enough about the rest, I think stuff has been written on here elsewhere.  Perhaps some of them are victims of bad practice at our end, but highly doubt it 
    All you write is true. The point is that perhaps something is going on that means that some of our players bodies, their joints or ligaments for example, are weakened during training and made more susceptible to injury.
    This is just a thought based on no 'evidence' whatsoever 
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    edited November 2019
    I'm not expecting relegation, but if our injury situation doesn't improve massively (it's possible we get another string of injuries) and we don't strengthen in January, we could easily get sucked into the battle.
    It's all very well Bowyer et al saying we haven't played anyone that were much better than us (it's true).
    It's also true that we haven't played anyone that's much worse than us.
    The league is extremely tight, there's not really a bad team.
    Barnsley are the worst having only won once, but they are no pushover.
    At the moment it's looking like 2/3 decent teams will be relegated, so we are far from safe.
    21st will be a success and I reckon we'll end up between 16th and 23rd.
    If I had to choose I'd say 18th and relegation avoided with about 3 games to go.
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    edited November 2019
    I'm not expecting relegation, but if our injury situation doesn't improve massively (it's possible we get another string of injuries) and we don't strengthen in January, we could easily get sucked into the battle.
    It's all very well Bowyer et al saying we haven't played anyone that were much better than us (it's true).
    It's also true that we haven't played anyone that's much worse than us.
    The league is extremely tight, there's not really a bad team.
    Barnsley are the worst having only won once, but they are no pushover.
    At the moment it's looking like 2/3 decent teams will be relegated, so we are far from safe.
    21st will be a success and I reckon we'll end up between 16th and 23rd.
    If I had to choose I'd say 18th and relegation avoided with about 3 games to go.

    one point or one goal difference better would do for me .. would hate to go to Elland Road needing a point or three
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    There's a lot of talk about injuries, which is fair enough, but it's not the whole story either. Injuries are playing a part, but in the end this is the same defence that held West Brom to a 2-2 draw, and the same defence that held Fulham to the same result, except with a central midfielder filling in at LWB. It's almost identical personnel-wise to the defence that helped us beat Leeds 1-0 as well. We should have been able to put up a better show against a Luton team who hadn't won in five games. The injuries are biting in attack and particularly midfield, which ramps up the pressure on the defence sure, but the basic mistakes that are being made at the back aren't caused by us throwing in an untested kid or an unfamiliar partnership. These are our first choice defenders and they're not playing to their level at the moment. I think mental fatigue can set in with the lack of rotation and the strain that knowing your team is made up of walking wounded can cause. I think Bowyer has missed a trick a bit this season in under-utilising Deji at centre half as a bit of rotation at the back would not have hurt us when we've had options available there, even if Bow feels constrained into playing 3 at the back with our midfield injuries. The players at the back need to stand up and be counted while we're unable to change games at the other end of the pitch
    I understand your point but those teams had Cullen in front of them. Albie Morgan is no where near the same ability as Cullen, especially defensively. That, combined with the fact Pratley had an off day, make a massive impact too
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    I'm not expecting relegation, but if our injury situation doesn't improve massively (it's possible we get another string of injuries) and we don't strengthen in January, we could easily get sucked into the battle.
    It's all very well Bowyer et al saying we haven't played anyone that were much better than us (it's true).
    It's also true that we haven't played anyone that's much worse than us.
    The league is extremely tight, there's not really a bad team.
    Barnsley are the worst having only won once, but they are no pushover.
    At the moment it's looking like 2/3 decent teams will be relegated, so we are far from safe.
    21st will be a success and I reckon we'll end up between 16th and 23rd.
    If I had to choose I'd say 18th and relegation avoided with about 3 games to go.
    You see I think that we will go on another little run at some stage.
    Yes we had a great start and that’s maybe papered over the form we are on at the moment. 2 wins from 12 is not good at any point or level, and that’s what we have got right now.
    However, with the amount of players out all at once, as well as the amount of players getting injured and coming back, before getting injured again at various points, we have never been able to put together a run of two or three games of the same team. Where is the consistency?
    I genuinely believe, once we even get 3 or 4 players back properly, preferably Taylor, Williams, and one other midfielder, we will have enough about us to get a good amount of points in a row again.
    This league is all about winning games, draws are no good. String even 2 or 3 wins together and you shoot up the league. We have enough about us to do that once players are fit. In the position we are in right now, if we were to win 3 in a row, we’d probably only need a further 15 points to be safe.
    Trust these players when things are tough, continue the support, getting behind them, and together we will ensure we hit safety far more quicker than with 3 games to spare. 
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    Paddy7 said:
    Can't really comment on individual performances after the crap VP stream cut out  
    Mine was fine, were you using their app or browserb based connection?
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    I'm not expecting relegation, but if our injury situation doesn't improve massively (it's possible we get another string of injuries) and we don't strengthen in January, we could easily get sucked into the battle.
    It's all very well Bowyer et al saying we haven't played anyone that were much better than us (it's true).
    It's also true that we haven't played anyone that's much worse than us.
    The league is extremely tight, there's not really a bad team.
    Barnsley are the worst having only won once, but they are no pushover.
    At the moment it's looking like 2/3 decent teams will be relegated, so we are far from safe.
    21st will be a success and I reckon we'll end up between 16th and 23rd.
    If I had to choose I'd say 18th and relegation avoided with about 3 games to go.

    one point or one goal difference better would do for me .. would hate to go to Elland Road needing a point or three
    I'd be delighted to be there, with us safe and with nothing to play for, and Leeds celebrating or even clinching promotion or the title. I remember us drawing 0-0 at Cardiff a few years ago which clinched promotion for them, and it was a great atmosphere afterwards. It also made it a lot easier to get away after the game!
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    edited November 2019
    GKs: Phillips, Amos
    RBs: Matthews, Solly
    CBs: Oshilaja, Lockyer, Pearce, Sarr
    LBs: Purrington, Page
    DMs: Field, Pratley,
    MFs: Cullen, Gallagher, Kayal, JFC, Lapslie
    AMs:Williams, Oztumer, Aneke
    FWs: Taylor, Leko, Hemed, Bonne
    Misc Youngsters: Maynard-Brewer, Morgan, Doughty, Davison

    Hard to blame this on Roland imo, however keen I know some people are to always bring it back to him. That squad is plenty good enough and deep enough to stay up under normal circumstances. Sure, Roland set a very tight budget but Bowyer has worked with it and we have at least two players for every position - something we've not always had under Roland which has definitely hurt us in the past - plus a few players who can play more than one position. I don't think many teams in this division run with much more than 24 senior players - for example under the homegrown player rule Premier League squad sizes are supposed to be only 25.

    However, when you then go through and strike-off the players that were either flat-out injured, or insufficiently match fit to really be involved on Tuesday, it really puts into perspective the issue at hand.

    GKs: Phillips, Amos
    RBs: Matthews, Solly
    CBs: Oshilaja, Lockyer, Pearce, Sarr
    LBs: Purrington, Page
    DMs: Field, Pratley,
    MFs: Cullen, Gallagher, Kayal, JFC, Lapslie
    AMs:Williams, Oztumer, Aneke
    FWs: Taylor, Leko, Hemed, Bonne
    Misc Youngsters: Maynard-Brewer, Morgan, Doughty, Davison

    Factor in three of our 4 best players being crossed out, and it looks even worse. Yes, individual errors have caused us problems in the last few games, but more crucially Bowyer likes to change his team and his formation to suit the opposition we are playing and he just can't do that right now. At best he can maybe change out one or two individuals, but he's very limited in what he can do on shape and nearly every option involves someone playing outside of their best position.

    This is a tight league, and always is. The annual cliche is that every team in the Championship can beat every other team, but it is generally true. I would say almost every match we have played in this season, win or lose, you could envisage a scenario (a 50:50 refereeing call, or a good chance missed etc.) which could have totally flipped the game on it's head. Take last night - everyone saying we were outplayed, yet if the ref is less lenient on the two potential infringements for their goals, or Connor's shot curls another 6 inches and we might have left with all 3 points. With the margins between success and failure being so fine the weakening of our squad is bound to be really hurting us and it's really reached crisis point since the international break.

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    cabbles said:
    A few years ago there was a club (really can't remember which one) had a very serious player injury problem. They changed the training surface at the training ground, totally refused to use any artificial surfaces, paid close attention to the training kit, especially footwear, and guess what ? .. 'what' ? .. the injury 'crisis' improved. 
    I am not suggesting that this is exactly the same issue we have, BUT, SO MANY injuries ? .. it just cannot be simply down to bad luck or that we are always sold or lent crocked players or that our training methods and medical care are just awful.
    I would hope that the powers that be are making every effort to investigate this veritable injury plague infecting our squad and are going all out in an attempt to find answers.
    I suppose you would have to look at each of the individual injuries to see if any of them are preventable, but I think a lot of them are just unfortunate.  Bowyer said that a lot of the injuries are muscle related following on from the initial injury sustained.  I'm not an expert, so I can't say whether or not these are preventable.  

    Taylor (injured on intl duty, outside of our control)
    Field (injured during a match, knee, unpreventable)
    Cullen (injured  during match, ankle ligaments, unpreventable)
    Williams (knee, injured during match and has a history of injuries so we have to expect it and it will probably continue throughout his career, regardless of what clubs he plays for)
    JFC (was badly injured last season, and got injured during a game, so you could argue unpreventable and susceptible to injuries from now on).
    Page (looks like he'll be in the Williams mould, and you question if he's now one of these players who will always be dogged with injuries)

    I don't know enough about the rest, I think stuff has been written on here elsewhere.  Perhaps some of them are victims of bad practice at our end, but highly doubt it 
    All you write is true. The point is that perhaps something is going on that means that some of our players bodies, their joints or ligaments for example, are weakened during training and made more susceptible to injury.
    This is just a thought based on no 'evidence' whatsoever 
    Maybe, but I think sports science is so advanced now, the regimes clubs must employ must be so much better at preventing these things.  If anything, I would say knowledge of that type of thing is probably really good 

    The pace of the modern game I think has a lot to answer for 
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    cs1986 said:
    It was a shambles tonight tbh. I have just watched the goals on sky sports news after getting back. How the hell did they allow Lutons first!? Shocking.

    We looked good until we scored then did nothing for over half hour. I even thought we lacked effort tonight.  They were so slow at the back but we failed to test them after our goal.

    Dillon had a blinder
    Naby has become a liability
    Midfield 3 were dominated and went missing. Morgan is nowhere near ready for this league.
    Great finish from Leko.

    All capped off with an absolute tosser in crowd.

    Not looking forward to Boro away now.


    Not the one shouting abuse to the luton fans in the box by any chance? Was fucking embarrassing! 
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