I can see why the lino flagged. Sarr is just about level or fractionally offside.....as he is the nearest player to the lino he would be blocking out the defender & thus appear to be in the furthest forward player.
BBC stats says that we had no shots on target.....but seeing as we had a goal disallowed then that is not strictly true.
As they say......you can stick your stats up your arse.
BBC stats seem correct to me. If the ref blows for a foul and in frustration a player hammers the ball to an empty net, you aren't going to count that as a shot on target!
Yes, but Taylor didnt blast the ball into the net after the whistle had gone....he jumped & headed the ball into the net during active play.
Also, what about Leko's shot in the first half which the keeper saved. Is that not a shot on target...??
BBC stats says that we had no shots on target.....but seeing as we had a goal disallowed then that is not strictly true.
As they say......you can stick your stats up your arse.
BBC stats seem correct to me. If the ref blows for a foul and in frustration a player hammers the ball to an empty net, you aren't going to count that as a shot on target!
There's no foul. And there's no offside.
Vennings carries the ball towards the byeline and pulls it back to Purrington ..... Vennings not offside because he played the ball back. Then he runs off the pitch.
Purrington shoots ...... at the moment the ball is played, neither Sarr or Taylor are in an offside position as there appears to be 2 defenders in line just nearer the goal ...... and the ball played/deflects off Huddersfield number 27 towards Sarr.
Ball last played by a defender, no offside in any case.
Sarr heads the ball across and Taylor, onside ..... glances the ball into the net. There's no foul there either but we clearly hear the whistle blow after the ball crosses the goal line.
Why? If the linesman flagged for offside, he's made a mistake. It's clear from the video.
I waited until now to even read the Reaction let alone comment. Lee Bowyer's in a no win situation, literally. The injury crisis has sapped the confidence out of Lee as well as the crowd. No chance of rotation, so no rest for Pratley because of Field, Kayla Injuries. No chance of rotation, for Bonne because of Taylor, Aneke, Hemed missing. No chance for Leko to be used as a sub because of all the forward injuries.
I commented on the day we kicked off this season that our defense was made up of very good League 1 defenders who will step up as long as the stronger midfield of Cullen, Field, Gallagher, Kayla stayed fit as well as Taylor and Williams up top.
Lee Bowyer taking off Doughty for Vennings appeared wrong at the time but I assumed Lee thought Vennings could zip the ball through on a wet pitch ? Unfortunately he looks lightweight and Morgan was my shout But not for Alfie who is a strong fit lad with pace.
We desperately needed this takeover back in the summer, after the play off final when the momentum was high. Lee Bowyer does make Mistakes, But he is the reason we are in the Championship not the back water of League 1.
So important that Bowyer and coaches are backed and we don't become Watford when the Algorithms decide ? In plain English: When the computer said NO.
BBC stats says that we had no shots on target.....but seeing as we had a goal disallowed then that is not strictly true.
As they say......you can stick your stats up your arse.
BBC stats seem correct to me. If the ref blows for a foul and in frustration a player hammers the ball to an empty net, you aren't going to count that as a shot on target!
There's no foul. And there's no offside.
Vennings carries the ball towards the byeline and pulls it back to Purrington ..... Vennings not offside because he played the ball back. Then he runs off the pitch.
Purrington shoots ...... at the moment the ball is played, neither Sarr or Taylor are in an offside position as there appears to be 2 defenders in line just nearer the goal ...... and the ball played/deflects off Huddersfield number 27 towards Sarr.
Ball last played by a defender, no offside in any case.
Sarr heads the ball across and Taylor, onside ..... glances the ball into the net. There's no foul there either but we clearly hear the whistle blow after the ball crosses the goal line.
Why? If the linesman flagged for offside, he's made a mistake. It's clear from the video.
BBC stats says that we had no shots on target.....but seeing as we had a goal disallowed then that is not strictly true.
As they say......you can stick your stats up your arse.
BBC stats seem correct to me. If the ref blows for a foul and in frustration a player hammers the ball to an empty net, you aren't going to count that as a shot on target!
Yes, but Taylor didnt blast the ball into the net after the whistle had gone....he jumped & headed the ball into the net during active play.
Also, what about Leko's shot in the first half which the keeper saved. Is that not a shot on target...??
Surely the play was 'dead' as soon as the offence (the offside) occurred - whether or not the ref had whistled by the time the ball entered the net.
Leko's shot in the first half appeared to be travelling across the face of the goal.
I will try to be measured in my response because I am almost at the point of asking site Admin to consider opening two Post Match threads - one for Those In Touch with reality henceforth to be known as TITS and those who seem to be under the influence of mind altering substances henceforth to be known as DRAWS or the Depository for Random Asinine Whinges
So, so many of the comments read like someone sitting in the proverbial Ivory Tower who had never been near a team sports clubhouse in their lives.
I am reminded of Area Sales Offices reports on failing sales targets from people who could not sell an umbrella in a rainstorm. Having worked at the sharp end for much of my career I enjoyed my "2 down tours" speaking to staff about the issues they faced. The blundering back tracking from line managers was a sight to behold. The message was simple you do not hit your sales targets if you do not invest in your staff.
No one is arguing the performances are good enough but can we please, please have some perspective here.
The Middlesboro game "was a physically & mentally tired and lethargic performance". Was it in character with all we have seen before? No.
I do not doubt any "in ground" body language interpretation but there are only so many times you can ask players "to go to the well" before performances suffer. The "in game" descriptions position the confusion perfectly = NEW Central defence pairing, 2 NEW players in a midfield four - NEW 2nd half attack where Leko & Bonne had lived off scraps for weeks.
With any game I accept people have paid good money and thus can have their say but please look beyond some of the simplistic interpretations on offer before turning it all into a major crisis. Such performances for me were only a matter of time. If they open a few eyes then so much the better.
I love the idea our redemption lies with Doughty a 19yr old talented midfield player after just 3 games at left back and Morgan a 19yr old talented midfield player who when physically targeted has the habit of disappearing. Morgan is a talent but as per the play offs is too easily shut down and will cost you goals. Does it not occur the lads were available for loans to every League 1 & 2 club? Why were they at Bromley and Ebbsfleet?
We operate today with 2 functioning "in game" managers. Pratley and Pearce are struggling. I am not sure either has the legs to be effective for successive multiple games. Pratley made just 3 starts in the last 1/3rd of last season. Pearce has started just over 1/2 of League starts in the past 3 seasons. Ledley might be another but just played his first 45mins for a year. Taylor is another but just played his first 80mins in 3 months.
Who else do you expect to step in to change things up? Morgan? Doughty? Gallagher? Leko? Bonne?
Does anyone challenge the factors I outlined after Middlesboro? A response of "Yes, but" doesn't cut it. Yes but what? Because people have paid good money does not mean their comments cannot be challenged.
The entire background to the past 18 months progress was summed up perfectly by Taylors' comment to Bowyer having left the Wembley pitch. His words..... "How the fuck did you get us promoted?" Look at the post match interviews with Bauer and Bielik.
The step up to Championship presents us with a marathon. After the remedial work needed in the close season key signings have barely been able to kick a ball in weeks meaning we have lived off youthful industry, exuberance & talent. Youthful industry, exuberance and inexperienced talent have a Championship shelf life. Opposing coaches work out new players & new teams and have the talent to pose different challenges.
Ladies & Gentlemen I list 29 names for you to work with - you work it out. Your starting point is a squad which after an exceptional half season achieved promotion via the play offs. You have no money and are operating with the lowest budget in the Championship where agents and clubs are dismissing your offers.
Headline 1 we had a L1 defence, lost 3 key players fromthe run in - Djiksteel, Bauer & Bielik. As of today?
1. Phillips - First Full Season in Championship (FFSC) after securing No1 spot for 1/2 a season in League 1 2. Amos - Experienced keeper currently - OUT 3. Maynard Brewer - FFSC- No senior experience 4.Solly - Capable defensive full back - Manages a significant injury profile 5.Purrington - FFSC - Capable L1 fullback signed from Rotherham 6. Page - FFSC -Capable L1 full back - Carries significant injury profile - OUT 7. Lockyer - FFSC - Verycapable L1 defender - Bosman transfer from Bristol Rovers 8. Pearce - Combative defender - Manages notable injury profile 9. Sarr - FFSC - Disappointing career - Established himself as capable L1 defender last season 10. Oshilaja - FFSC- Capable L1 utility defender 11. Matthews - Capable experienced full back - Signed off the street.
In the last 3 seasons we have spent just £95k on one defender who remains with the club
Headline 2 we had a L1 midfield where Cullen, Aribo & Bielik excelled, embellished by sundry cameo performances by Williams lost 2 key players from the run in - Aribo & Bielik
In 21 League games this season we have used 14 players in midfield
12. Pratley - Veteran aged 34 - an experienced enforcer who excelled in the play offs 13. Kayal - Experienced Championship player signed deadline day - Has barely featured due to injury - OUT 14. Field - Championship squad player signed on loan - Has sustained medium term injury - OUT 15. Aneke - FFSC- Suffered continuing injuries - OUT 16. Cullen - FFSC - Key player in each of the last 2 seasons - Has sustained medium term injury - OUT 17. Lapslie -FFSC - Useful L1 squad player - Has sustained medium injury - OUT 18. Williams - Exemplary Championship creative talent - Significant injury profile - OUT 19. Oztumer - Creative L1 talent - Has sustained short/ medium injury - OUT 20. Gallagher - FFSC - Impressive young talent in first full season 21. Morgan - FFSC - Promising creative young talent who can be too easily dominated 22. Ledley - Experienced capable Championship player - Signed off the street after nearly a year out 23. Doughty - FFSC - Played 3 senior games Oshilaja - See above 24. Vennings - FFSC - Played 2 senior games
In the last 3 seasons we have spent just £0k on midfield players who remain with the club
Headline 3 we had a L1 attack focused on 2 key assets - Taylor & Grant - Grant left in January 2019
As of today
25. Taylor - FFSC - Talisman - has just missed 14 games - is on a restricted return programme 26. Bonne - FFSC - Emerging talent - just stepped out of the National League 27. Hemed - Experienced Championship player signed deadline day - Has barely featured due to injury - OUT 28. Leko - FFSC - Championship squad player signed on loan - No senior league starts in 18/19 season 29. Davison - FFSC - Non league forward - 3 substitute appearances
In the last 3 seasons we have spent just £200k on attack players who remain with the club
- 18 of the squad with little or no senior experience of the Championship. It is a step up in speed of play, thought and intensity for 65% of staff driving new physical & mental demands and new workloads. Scale & scope of injuries with the extra demands of ever changing formats & faces further increases workloads. It is not just a challenge for today. If not managed the squad faces complete burn out in January.
- 6 of the remainder are out injured
- 2 of the remainder were signed off the street
- 15 of the senior squad had no senior pre season.
- 2 established Championship players were acquired close season starting 4 out of 37 games
- 27 out of 29 names are currently carrying performance risk factors.
In terms of recent results Callum nailed it. The defensive framework starts with a midfield decimated by injury. In attack if you have to consistently rely on 3 players who made not a single league starts in the EFL in 2018/19 for your goal threat you are going to lose games by a single goal.
It is the Gudmundsson, Vetokele, Holmes syndrome all over again.
Until injured players are fully back opposing sides can just target Gallagher to shut us down.
M. Duchatelet is not responsible for any injury over the past 6 years. He is entirely responsible for short changing every manager employed in empowering them with the appropriate resource to manage the situation.
Every short cut comes with a risk be it injury profile, no pre season, ageing players, no relevant experience, over reliance on youth players. Mr Bowyer had the temerity to win a promotion despite such restrictions. I have no idea if he can continue to progress the club within the confines of the resources available. His work to this point has been there for all to see and been largely acclaimed across the industry.
No manager gets it right all the time but that anyone does not recognise the challenges to then position the manager and his staff as failing says significantly more about them than Mr Bowyer.
Lash out if you must but there is no magic remedy here. There is no miracle solution. There is no magnificent formation to cure all ills. The job is to get your head down keep working hard supporting each other until injured players return or new additions can arrive in January. I do not see any player running away from the challenge. In fact I see some trying too hard to compensate.
I for one respect and applaud such effort.
The critical extension/ projections beyond the performances against Middlesboro & Huddersfield serve absolutely no one.
Despite the undoubted and consistent quality of @Grapevine49’s writings on here, their length often means that I give up well before the end. But this analysis is bang on the money and had me hooked. Watching EFL highlights show on quest last night, it is clear that we are not the only side to be suffering with copious injuries (although I’m not denying that our situation is way worse than most). Wigan pretty much gave West Brom the runaround last night without their entire first choice defence and would have won but for a bizarre goalkeeping mistake - if you haven’t seen it watch it. It’s hilarious. Our problem, as Grapevine has highlighted, is that even at full strength we would be fielding a team with, at most, three players who are beyond argument up to top championship level on paper at the start of the season. Of those three (Kayal, Hemed and Williams), two might as well not have been here and the other’s brilliance is matched only by his brittleness. (Gallagher was an unknown punt and even Lyle was unproven at this level). We can now I think safely say that Messrs Gallagher, Taylor, Cullen and, I’d wager, Phillips and Field are up to it too. The rest are league one standard or approaching past it (even though in Pratley‘s case he’s playing out of his skin). So, at any point in time given even average injury luck, we would be fielding at least half a team that would struggle in any event beyond the lower reaches over the course of a full season (don’t forget that even during our good run we won a couple of games against Brentford and Leeds Where we got mullered for 90 mins) That to me shows just what miracles Bowyer has been working.
Grapevine does make good points. When you have to draw from the emergency well, it can be productive. Sadly, it runs dry when you keep having to draw from it. That nobody has thrashed us during this crisis is surprising, but the well is dry and we can only wait for players who make a difference to return. I look back at the things that have gone against us during this crisis. We haven't got the breaks but maybe that is also something that happens when the well is dry or maybe it is something that helps make it go dry more quickly.
We are on a football forum and pointing out game changing moments in games or things we may have done differently is what a forum is about. We are not managers, but if you say you can't hold opinions because you are not one then football loses its magic. What would we bloody have to talk about all the time? But that should not be interpreted as losing faith with Bowyer. If anybody wants him out they are complete knobs.
Bowyer is struggling and should be seeking advice from experienced managers, he has no idea how to get the best out of this weak squad. If the take over does occur it will be to late to save the team from relegation to league 1, because by January 2 the team will be 4-6 pts in the relegation zone.
Over the last couple of days I have seen the keyboard warriors, many of whom were not at the game, come out and badmouth Bowyer. Some of these may be old enough to be the same people who bad mouthed Curbs because we were not in Europe and some who cheered when Powell was dismissed by the incoming "billionaire" Roland.
I try to ignore all of them because they are patently talking nonsense. Teams can get out of the relegation zone after Christmas and we certainly wont be bottom. We have had an injury crisis and with playing youngsters in midfield have had difficulty creating chances for strikers, like Bonne and even Taylor when he came on, and exposing the defence. When we have some of the injuries back, Williams, Cullen, Oztumer we will be able to create more. The stress that puts on other parts of the team meant we were doing well to hold on to a draw until Taylor came on and were then subject to some outrageous decisions by the East Stand Lino. Then taken by a sucker punch because of Solly's one mistake of the evening.
I may be a glass half full person but we should remember we beat Leeds at home so should Bowyer be taking advice from an experienced manager like Bielsa???
Was I angry when I left on Tuesday night, to damn right I was, but I put the blame where it belongs, on the paucity of resources given to the management team by our current owner. There is a lot to look forward to but I will look back in anger at what Roland has done to our club andwhat some unrealistic, short sighted, short termists are saying at the moment
Bowyer is struggling and should be seeking advice from experienced managers, he has no idea how to get the best out of this weak squad. If the take over does occur it will be to late to save the team from relegation to league 1, because by January 2 the team will be 4-6 pts in the relegation zone.
Over the last couple of days I have seen the keyboard warriors, many of whom were not at the game, come out and badmouth Bowyer. Some of these may be old enough to be the same people who bad mouthed Curbs because we were not in Europe and some who cheered when Powell was dismissed by the incoming "billionaire" Roland.
I try to ignore all of them because they are patently talking nonsense. Teams can get out of the relegation zone after Christmas and we certainly wont be bottom. We have had an injury crisis and with playing youngsters in midfield have had difficulty creating chances for strikers, like Bonne and even Taylor when he came on, and exposing the defence. When we have some of the injuries back, Williams, Cullen, Oztumer we will be able to create more. The stress that puts on other parts of the team meant we were doing well to hold on to a draw until Taylor came on and were then subject to some outrageous decisions by the East Stand Lino. Then taken by a sucker punch because of Solly's one mistake of the evening.
I may be a glass half full person but we should remember we beat Leeds at home so should Bowyer be taking advice from an experienced manager like Bielsa???
Was I angry when I left on Tuesday night, to damn right I was, but I put the blame where it belongs, on the paucity of resources given to the management team by our current owner. There is a lot to look forward to but I will look back in anger at what Roland has done to our club andwhat some unrealistic, short sighted, short termists are saying at the moment
BBC stats says that we had no shots on target.....but seeing as we had a goal disallowed then that is not strictly true.
As they say......you can stick your stats up your arse.
BBC stats seem correct to me. If the ref blows for a foul and in frustration a player hammers the ball to an empty net, you aren't going to count that as a shot on target!
There's no foul. And there's no offside.
Vennings carries the ball towards the byeline and pulls it back to Purrington ..... Vennings not offside because he played the ball back. Then he runs off the pitch.
Purrington shoots ...... at the moment the ball is played, neither Sarr or Taylor are in an offside position as there appears to be 2 defenders in line just nearer the goal ...... and the ball played/deflects off Huddersfield number 27 towards Sarr.
Ball last played by a defender, no offside in any case.
Sarr heads the ball across and Taylor, onside ..... glances the ball into the net. There's no foul there either but we clearly hear the whistle blow after the ball crosses the goal line.
Why? If the linesman flagged for offside, he's made a mistake. It's clear from the video.
Oggy and others, who is Naby meant to be marking Tuesday, do you have insight into Bows briefings? Do we mtm or zonal mark? Not sure as a STH I know.
My comments were based on the highlights video ....... looks like it's initially zonal marking, then degenerates into indecision, before trying to man mark a split second too late.
I don't want to be too hard on Naby, because I think in a strong team he has a lot to offer. But there seems to be at times uncertainty in his mind when to pick up aplayer.
BTW Pearce, when he's backpedalling, maybe sometimes shows the same hesitation and uncertainty? Perhaps they're not comfortable with some aspects of the defensive system?
Or even that currently their uncertainty is being caused being sometimes exposed by lack of midfield protection?
Comments
Also, what about Leko's shot in the first half which the keeper saved. Is that not a shot on target...??
Vennings carries the ball towards the byeline and pulls it back to Purrington ..... Vennings not offside because he played the ball back. Then he runs off the pitch.
Purrington shoots ...... at the moment the ball is played, neither Sarr or Taylor are in an offside position as there appears to be 2 defenders in line just nearer the goal ...... and the ball played/deflects off Huddersfield number 27 towards Sarr.
Ball last played by a defender, no offside in any case.
Sarr heads the ball across and Taylor, onside ..... glances the ball into the net. There's no foul there either but we clearly hear the whistle blow after the ball crosses the goal line.
Why? If the linesman flagged for offside, he's made a mistake. It's clear from the video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yZAfJWNZQQE
Lee Bowyer's in a no win situation, literally.
The injury crisis has sapped the confidence out of Lee as well as the crowd.
No chance of rotation, so no rest for Pratley because of Field, Kayla Injuries.
No chance of rotation, for Bonne because of Taylor, Aneke, Hemed missing.
No chance for Leko to be used as a sub because of all the forward injuries.
I commented on the day we kicked off this season that our defense was made up of very good League 1 defenders who will step up as long as the stronger midfield of Cullen, Field, Gallagher, Kayla stayed fit as well as Taylor and Williams up top.
Lee Bowyer taking off Doughty for Vennings appeared wrong at the time but I assumed Lee thought Vennings could zip the ball through on a wet pitch ? Unfortunately he looks lightweight and Morgan was my shout But not for Alfie who is a strong fit lad with pace.
We desperately needed this takeover back in the summer, after the play off final when the momentum was high. Lee Bowyer does make Mistakes, But he is the reason we are in the Championship not the back water of League 1.
So important that Bowyer and coaches are backed and we don't become Watford when the Algorithms decide ?
In plain English: When the computer said NO.
Leko's shot in the first half appeared to be travelling across the face of the goal.
We are on a football forum and pointing out game changing moments in games or things we may have done differently is what a forum is about. We are not managers, but if you say you can't hold opinions because you are not one then football loses its magic. What would we bloody have to talk about all the time? But that should not be interpreted as losing faith with Bowyer. If anybody wants him out they are complete knobs.
I try to ignore all of them because they are patently talking nonsense. Teams can get out of the relegation zone after Christmas and we certainly wont be bottom. We have had an injury crisis and with playing youngsters in midfield have had difficulty creating chances for strikers, like Bonne and even Taylor when he came on, and exposing the defence. When we have some of the injuries back, Williams, Cullen, Oztumer we will be able to create more. The stress that puts on other parts of the team meant we were doing well to hold on to a draw until Taylor came on and were then subject to some outrageous decisions by the East Stand Lino. Then taken by a sucker punch because of Solly's one mistake of the evening.
I may be a glass half full person but we should remember we beat Leeds at home so should Bowyer be taking advice from an experienced manager like Bielsa???
Was I angry when I left on Tuesday night, to damn right I was, but I put the blame where it belongs, on the paucity of resources given to the management team by our current owner. There is a lot to look forward to but I will look back in anger at what Roland has done to our club andwhat some unrealistic, short sighted, short termists are saying at the moment
I don't want to be too hard on Naby, because I think in a strong team he has a lot to offer.
But there seems to be at times uncertainty in his mind when to pick up aplayer.
BTW Pearce, when he's backpedalling, maybe sometimes shows the same hesitation and uncertainty?
Perhaps they're not comfortable with some aspects of the defensive system?
Or even that currently their uncertainty is being caused being sometimes exposed by lack of midfield protection?