Labour should keep the left wing policies but dump Momemtum and identity, student politics. That doesn't resonate with people
What’s a left wing policy ? Support for equal rights, helping people in need ?
Public ownership and higher taxation across the board is generally left wing.
Ah - economically left wing . I don’t believe in taxing the hell out of small business and middle income earners but I do believe the highest earners should pay more. So am I right wing ? I think these terms are reductive and have been hijacked
The highest earners do pay more don’t they? Always have done and always will
Mainstream media (owned by billionaires) won out again.
The establishment always wins.
Run a smear campaign against both Ed Milliband and Corbyn. Doesn't matter the leader, labour don't have a chance.
How did Blair get in then?
If we're talking about print media which at the time was still the most dominant form of news then the Sun, the Mirror, the Star, the Guardian and the Indy all backed Blair. I don't have figures to hand but on units sold I'd hazard a guess those publications would have made up the majority of paper sold.
Of course, it can't be Labour's poor leadership, far from credible manifesto (plus the extra incredible costs promised for the Waspi women) or their ridiculous non-position over Brexit that caused the Tory landslide. It has to be the Tory press or dirty tricks on social media. Get real.
^^^^ this with knobs on. Briefly watched Stephen Kinnock on QT tonight, as big a knob as his Dad was.
Mainstream media (owned by billionaires) won out again.
The establishment always wins.
Run a smear campaign against both Ed Milliband and Corbyn. Doesn't matter the leader, labour don't have a chance.
How did Blair get in then?
If we're talking about print media which at the time was still the most dominant form of news then the Sun, the Mirror, the Star, the Guardian and the Indy all backed Blair. I don't have figures to hand but on units sold I'd hazard a guess those publications would have made up the majority of paper sold.
Absolutely.
I only vote for who The Sun and The Daily Mirror tell me who to vote for.
Mainstream media (owned by billionaires) won out again.
The establishment always wins.
Run a smear campaign against both Ed Milliband and Corbyn. Doesn't matter the leader, labour don't have a chance.
How did Blair get in then?
If we're talking about print media which at the time was still the most dominant form of news then the Sun, the Mirror, the Star, the Guardian and the Indy all backed Blair. I don't have figures to hand but on units sold I'd hazard a guess those publications would have made up the majority of paper sold.
Quite, my point was the smear is against the person because, specifically in this case, they’re awful. The previous poster implied that the smear by the establishment/media is based purely on them being Labour, so no one in Labour stands a chance.
Blair’s backing and subsequent success surely disproves that.
But it’s easier to blame the establishment//media than Corbyn.
Mainstream media (owned by billionaires) won out again.
The establishment always wins.
Run a smear campaign against both Ed Milliband and Corbyn. Doesn't matter the leader, labour don't have a chance.
How did Blair get in then?
If we're talking about print media which at the time was still the most dominant form of news then the Sun, the Mirror, the Star, the Guardian and the Indy all backed Blair. I don't have figures to hand but on units sold I'd hazard a guess those publications would have made up the majority of paper sold.
Quite, my point was the smear is against the person because, specifically in this case, they’re awful. The previous poster implied that the smear by the establishment/media is based purely on them being Labour, so no one in Labour stands a chance.
Blair’s backing and subsequent success surely disproves that.
But it’s easier to blame the establishment//media than Corbyn.
I absolutely concede that it's a chicken or egg debate. Do media outlets try and influence a vote based on who they feel their readership want or are they trying to sway a vote based on their owners/shareholders own personal views. Who knows?
And anyone getting a bit precious about this debate, I'm not accusing anyone here that they are voting based purely on what certain media outlets want you to vote. Without a doubt what we read and watch influences our own opinions and decisions, if people only stay within their own bubble and see one side of the argument then that's their own limitations. This goes for both sides of the political spectrum. I'm not for one second suggesting this is the only or even the biggest part of this whole campaign but media influence is without doubt a thing and I personally find it fascinating. Anyone that wants to engage in reasoned debate then that's great, if you want to post snide comments then that's on you.
To make you chuckle, this is from a friend who was working at a polling station yesterday: "I had one 'choice' individual who bounced in and said, I've never voted before, but I love Boris, he's so funny, he's great, I love him, she went in the booth and came out and said, why is his name not on the paper? Say no more, all the polling staff were struggling not to give her a lecture in how it works."
Uncorroborated anecdotes belittling people that voted for Boris. This is the sort of arrogance shown by your average Corbinista. No wonder they got such a spanking.
I don't really like Boris and felt when he was elected as Tory leader and PM that he needed to call an election and get his own mandate to make his position justified. He did call one in the end and fair play he has won by a decent clear margin because that is how the people voted and in most constituencies een though I didn't vote for his party. But looking at Labour the pasting they have got reminds of the one the Tories got in 1997 when Blair came in with then New Labour and the voters have given the current Labour party the same slap in the face as the Tories in 1997.
Interesting how "skilled working class" is the biggest Tory category.
The divides were age groups, all social classes voted Conservative.
It seems we are now divided more by age than by classes, probably part of the reason the identity politics of labour fell far short.
A class war the electorate weren't interested in getting involved in.
OK, this isn’t a political point, this is a data point.
What you state is not true. The ONLY group that voted Conservative was 65+. They got a tie in C2. The lost every other group, some badly. They were, however, the largest single vote group in many of the groups.
And skilled working class is not the biggest category. 65+ is the biggest category. Skilled working class may well be the biggest socioeconomic group, but not category.
If you’re going to use stats like this, use them correctly.
Isn't one set age group, and the other "social category"? Edit: looked it up and I am indeed wrong, age is also a social category. I should have said "NRS social grade"
And yes, all classes did vote Conservative, it's like saying that because they didn't get over 50% of the votes they don't win the election presumably you are aware there are "absolute" and "relative" statistics right?
Although if you'd like it reworded:
The Tories were the most popular party in every single NRS Social grade, but in particular with "skilled working class"
Age was the key issue, not classes.
It seems we are now divided more by age than by classes, probably part of the reason the identity politics of labour fell far short.
A class war the electorate weren't interested in getting involved in.
Not really clear what the Tories are going to deliver that will benefit the vast majority of people in this country but hopefully I'll be proved wrong.
I'd be grateful if somebody could explain which policies are going to push us forward.
Not really clear what the Tories are going to deliver that will benefit the vast majority of people in this country but hopefully I'll be proved wrong.
I'd be grateful if somebody could explain which policies are going to push us forward.
Get Brexit done.
40 new hospitals 20,000 police 50,000 new / more nurses.
We shall wait and see, with the number of Tory MPs they shouldn’t be any excuses for these not to happen.
This echoes the attitude that gets reported about some education establishments. Perhaps this attitude is a direct result of students being given the mistaken impression that a differing opinion can be changed by trying to shut it down.
A bit like Stalin 'preventing' religion in the USSR, it never works and wont make it go away.
You too. I was wary when you asked me who I was, because of where I was as much as anything. You seem to me to be one of the good guys, and were being what I assume is typically generous. I felt nervous about who might recognise me after my reaction to the sickening Tory victory.
Comments
I only vote for who The Sun and The Daily Mirror tell me who to vote for.
Blair’s backing and subsequent success surely disproves that.
But it’s easier to blame the establishment//media than Corbyn.
And anyone getting a bit precious about this debate, I'm not accusing anyone here that they are voting based purely on what certain media outlets want you to vote. Without a doubt what we read and watch influences our own opinions and decisions, if people only stay within their own bubble and see one side of the argument then that's their own limitations. This goes for both sides of the political spectrum. I'm not for one second suggesting this is the only or even the biggest part of this whole campaign but media influence is without doubt a thing and I personally find it fascinating. Anyone that wants to engage in reasoned debate then that's great, if you want to post snide comments then that's on you.
The divides were age groups, all social classes voted Conservative.
It seems we are now divided more by age than by classes, probably part of the reason the identity politics of labour fell far short.
A class war the electorate weren't interested in getting involved in.
And yes, all classes did vote Conservative, it's like saying that because they didn't get over 50% of the votes they don't win the election
Although if you'd like it reworded:
The Tories were the most popular party in every single NRS Social grade, but in particular with "skilled working class"
Age was the key issue, not classes.
It seems we are now divided more by age than by classes, probably part of the reason the identity politics of labour fell far short.
A class war the electorate weren't interested in getting involved in.
I'd be grateful if somebody could explain which policies are going to push us forward.
40 new hospitals
20,000 police
50,000 new / more nurses.
We shall wait and see, with the number of Tory MPs they shouldn’t be any excuses for these not to happen.
Would probably be more fun sitting through this season's injury time highlights reel.
A bit like Stalin 'preventing' religion in the USSR, it never works and wont make it go away.
I was wary when you asked me who I was, because of where I was as much as anything. You seem to me to be one of the good guys, and were being what I assume is typically generous.
I felt nervous about who might recognise me after my reaction to the sickening Tory victory.
I took up your challenge, yesterday of all days.
Freedom of Speech is an important British value even if it took a Frenchman, Voltaire, to articulate it the best.
“Tolerance has never provoked a civil war; intolerance has covered the Earth in carnage.”
This and other quotations were paraphrased by his biographer into “I disagree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
Ideological communism / socialism is essentially authoritarian in nature. Do as I say not as I do.