Charlton Athletic v West Brom | FA Cup R3 | Sun 5 January | Post-match thread

PaddyP17 · January 2020

cafcfan1990 said:

RC_CAFC said:

cafcfan1990 said:

RC_CAFC said:

Talal said:

mendonca said:

Oshiilaja is physically stronger than some of our other players. I would like to see him at CB or RB regularly.

Said a while ago he should maybe be given a go alongside Lockyer. What with Pearce's performances being below par and Sarr always likely to make an error I'm surprised it hasn't happened yet.

It’s because they like the balance of a right and left footer.

Poor management if they insist on that if the best two CBs are right footed though.

Possibly, but Bowyer has always insisted on playing players in their correct positions though. It’s served him pretty well so far. Thought both Sarr and Oshilaja were superb today.

I hardly think playing two right footed CBs at CB is playing someone out of position. It has served him well and if he doesn’t rate Oshilija then that’s fair enough to an extent. But given how neither Pearce or Sarr have been particularly good of late, I think Oshilija is very unlucky not to get a chance alongside Lockyer.

It's a case of Oshilaja being used as a rotational piece in both midfield AND defence, though. We don't have enough senior players for the schedule we have just gone through (Christmas is always busy for football), so I don't think he's been too unlucky - more that circumstances dictate what's going on.

Talal · January 2020

JamesSeed said:

hoof_it_up_to_benty said:

Green looked okay and thought Sarr/Oshilaja had decent games. We were not really in the game but weren't disgraced.

Odoh was shocking - far too small and lightweight to play at this level. No idea why he was left on?

Solly had a poor game.

Most of our players worked hard but nobody stood out.

Totally unfair. Odoh never stopped trying, showed glimpses of quality and was inches away from winning a penalty with a bit of trickery.

First half he was awful, looked completely out of his depth. Second half he did improve but was the worst of the youngsters imo.

cafcfan1990 · January 2020

PaddyP17 said:

cafcfan1990 said:

RC_CAFC said:

cafcfan1990 said:

RC_CAFC said:

Talal said:

mendonca said:

Oshiilaja is physically stronger than some of our other players. I would like to see him at CB or RB regularly.

Said a while ago he should maybe be given a go alongside Lockyer. What with Pearce's performances being below par and Sarr always likely to make an error I'm surprised it hasn't happened yet.

It’s because they like the balance of a right and left footer.

Poor management if they insist on that if the best two CBs are right footed though.

Possibly, but Bowyer has always insisted on playing players in their correct positions though. It’s served him pretty well so far. Thought both Sarr and Oshilaja were superb today.

I hardly think playing two right footed CBs at CB is playing someone out of position. It has served him well and if he doesn’t rate Oshilija then that’s fair enough to an extent. But given how neither Pearce or Sarr have been particularly good of late, I think Oshilija is very unlucky not to get a chance alongside Lockyer.

It's a case of Oshilaja being used as a rotational piece in both midfield AND defence, though. We don't have enough senior players for the schedule we have just gone through (Christmas is always busy for football), so I don't think he's been too unlucky - more that circumstances dictate what's going on.

Disagree, he has started much less than Pearce or Sarr. Thanks for highlighting Christmas is busy for football though, hadn’t realised...

PaddyP17 · January 2020

hoof_it_up_to_benty said:

Henry Irving said:

Odoh didn't start well but was better second half.

Some very harsh comments for a debutant who tried hard and won a dangerous free kick that might have been a pen.

He tried hard and if that's all we want from players then fair enough - he was way out of his depth and shouldn't have started. Physically he's far too small, barely touched the ball in first half and underhit most of his passes. He might be a great player at youth level but he's certainly nowhere near the level of senior football.

I'd blame whoever thought he was ready for selecting him today.

Conversely, what if there wasn't anyone else we could start from the U18/U23 level? (I do in fact strongly suspect there wasn't anyone else, but I might be wrong.) Bad at times though Odoh may have been, there were some glimpses of ability, a huge work ethic, and it was a cup game we were basically always going to lose given the gargantuan injury list we have.

I therefore don't think it's fair proclaim whether he's been good or bad (or shocking or whatever phrases have been used), given the context. It's immaterial to a big extent - and a good bit of work won us that free kick.

eaststandmike · January 2020

RaplhMilne said:

Just worrying that after defeat.... we get people going "Happy with That" ... well I'm not I'm pissed off bloody losing.

I will never be Happy.... with that.

It was a reserve game, nothing to worry about apart from the fact the FA Cup is dying on its arse.

20 team changes were made from a possible 22 based on the teams that played New Years Day and this is common throughout the games over the weekend.

Lets get the injured players back and start moving up the table.

Oggy Red · January 2020

PaddyP17 said:

hoof_it_up_to_benty said:

Henry Irving said:

Odoh didn't start well but was better second half.

Some very harsh comments for a debutant who tried hard and won a dangerous free kick that might have been a pen.

He tried hard and if that's all we want from players then fair enough - he was way out of his depth and shouldn't have started. Physically he's far too small, barely touched the ball in first half and underhit most of his passes. He might be a great player at youth level but he's certainly nowhere near the level of senior football.

I'd blame whoever thought he was ready for selecting him today.

Conversely, what if there wasn't anyone else we could start from the U18/U23 level? (I do in fact strongly suspect there wasn't anyone else, but I might be wrong.) Bad at times though Odoh may have been, there were some glimpses of ability, a huge work ethic, and it was a cup game we were basically always going to lose given the gargantuan injury list we have.

I therefore don't think it's fair proclaim whether he's been good or bad (or shocking or whatever phrases have been used), given the context. It's immaterial to a big extent - and a good bit of work won us that free kick.

Can I add to your post, Paddy .......Odoh was highly rated enough to be involved in 1st team squad pre-season training last summer.

This time last year he was playing non-league, after breaking into the Dulwich Hamlet 1st team as a raw 18 year old. His performances caught the eye and he was invited for a trial at Charlton, impressed and was offered a professional contract.

He's come a long way in a short time.

Today he was playing against internationals and Premier League experienced players. He made a nervous start but worked hard for the team and grew into the game.

Some people expect too much from raw youngsters all thrown into the team together. Of course they are not ready - otherwise they would have already been involved regularly with the first team all season.

Cut these kids some slack.

redman · January 2020

RC_CAFC · January 2020

cafcfan1990 said:

PaddyP17 said:

cafcfan1990 said:

RC_CAFC said:

cafcfan1990 said:

RC_CAFC said:

Talal said:

mendonca said:

Oshiilaja is physically stronger than some of our other players. I would like to see him at CB or RB regularly.

Said a while ago he should maybe be given a go alongside Lockyer. What with Pearce's performances being below par and Sarr always likely to make an error I'm surprised it hasn't happened yet.

It’s because they like the balance of a right and left footer.

Poor management if they insist on that if the best two CBs are right footed though.

Possibly, but Bowyer has always insisted on playing players in their correct positions though. It’s served him pretty well so far. Thought both Sarr and Oshilaja were superb today.

I hardly think playing two right footed CBs at CB is playing someone out of position. It has served him well and if he doesn’t rate Oshilija then that’s fair enough to an extent. But given how neither Pearce or Sarr have been particularly good of late, I think Oshilija is very unlucky not to get a chance alongside Lockyer.

It's a case of Oshilaja being used as a rotational piece in both midfield AND defence, though. We don't have enough senior players for the schedule we have just gone through (Christmas is always busy for football), so I don't think he's been too unlucky - more that circumstances dictate what's going on.

Disagree, he has started much less than Pearce or Sarr. Thanks for highlighting Christmas is busy for football though, hadn’t realised...

From watching today, I think Oshilaja is far stronger as a cb than midfielder. If you go back through interviews Bow has continually stated that he doesn’t like the balance of a wrong footed player on the wrong side and will only do it as a last resort, which is why perhaps he hasn’t played as much because Lockyer is our best cb at the moment. For what it’s worth, I think that a 3 of Lockyer, Deji and Sarr would work very well.

redman · January 2020

Henry Irving said:

Odoh didn't start well but was better second half.

Some very harsh comments for a debutant who tried hard and won a dangerous free kick that might have been a pen.

Don't know where he normally plays but he did look much better in second half. He was not involved much in first half but got into the game much more as he moved inside in the second. The last 15 minutes he was really struggling with cramp.

redman · January 2020

Thoroughly enjoyed the game today even though we lost. Thought the youngsters showed a lot of promise and kept fighting. Henry caught my eye as a good prospect, although certainly not yet. Oshi and Sarr both did well and rose to the responsibility. The main disapointment for me was Green: perhaps because I was expecting a bit more from him and certainly expected more from him than Henry, Venninings and Wiredu. For me it wasn't that way though.

cafcfan1990 · January 2020

RC_CAFC said:

cafcfan1990 said:

PaddyP17 said:

cafcfan1990 said:

RC_CAFC said:

cafcfan1990 said:

RC_CAFC said:

Talal said:

mendonca said:

Oshiilaja is physically stronger than some of our other players. I would like to see him at CB or RB regularly.

Said a while ago he should maybe be given a go alongside Lockyer. What with Pearce's performances being below par and Sarr always likely to make an error I'm surprised it hasn't happened yet.

It’s because they like the balance of a right and left footer.

Poor management if they insist on that if the best two CBs are right footed though.

Possibly, but Bowyer has always insisted on playing players in their correct positions though. It’s served him pretty well so far. Thought both Sarr and Oshilaja were superb today.

I hardly think playing two right footed CBs at CB is playing someone out of position. It has served him well and if he doesn’t rate Oshilija then that’s fair enough to an extent. But given how neither Pearce or Sarr have been particularly good of late, I think Oshilija is very unlucky not to get a chance alongside Lockyer.

It's a case of Oshilaja being used as a rotational piece in both midfield AND defence, though. We don't have enough senior players for the schedule we have just gone through (Christmas is always busy for football), so I don't think he's been too unlucky - more that circumstances dictate what's going on.

Disagree, he has started much less than Pearce or Sarr. Thanks for highlighting Christmas is busy for football though, hadn’t realised...

From watching today, I think Oshilaja is far stronger as a cb than midfielder. If you go back through interviews Bow has continually stated that he doesn’t like the balance of a wrong footed player on the wrong side and will only do it as a last resort, which is why perhaps he hasn’t played as much because Lockyer is our best cb at the moment. For what it’s worth, I think that a 3 of Lockyer, Deji and Sarr would work very well.

I don’t like us playing a back three personally. It’s not been successful and we don’t have the full backs for it. I’m not criticising Bowyer because we have had little option but when the likes of Field and Cullen come back I hope the back 3 ends. Lockyer has done well but if Bows picks Sarr/Pearce over Deji because he isn’t left footed I think that’s poor personally. You should pick your best two CBs.

killerandflash · January 2020

I don't recall left foot/right foot combinations being a key issues with previous CB combinations

To me it's the combination of players which matters more, the classic WC 66 combination of the classy intelligent player combined with the big tough player to win the physical and aerial battles still makes sense unless you're playing Man City or Barcelona. When up against Millwall again, we will need the right CBs to compete in the air.

Cardinal Sin · January 2020

hoof_it_up_to_benty said:

I think Odoh's debut today has to rank as one of the worst displays I've seen. The game largely bypassed him and he looks far too small to be playing at this level. He might be great at youth level but today he was ineffectual and I have no idea why he was left on.

He wasn't the best of the youngsters but think you are being harsh. He drew a couple of fouls and was busy enough, if off the pace to get more touches. Early, early days.

cafcfan1990 · January 2020

killerandflash said:

I don't recall left foot/right foot combinations being a key issues with previous CB combinations

To me it's the combination of players which matters more, the classic WC 66 combination of the classy intelligent player combined with the big tough player to win the physical and aerial battles still makes sense unless you're playing Man City or Barcelona. When up against Millwall again, we will need the right CBs to compete in the air

Like our 6 foot 4 CB Sarr?

But yes I agree with your post, it shouldn’t matter at all. Oshilijas’ pace could be very useful, easily our quickest CB.

Simonsen · January 2020

There are two ways of looking at it;

Firstly, just judging performance without considering other factors such as age or quality of opponent.

Or you can look at the whole package and on that basis, ALL of today's players did well.

There was a definite shape to the team and all were disciplined and positionally sound. They have clearly been well drilled.

A lot of "football people" will have been very impressed with Charlton today.

Simonsen · January 2020

killerandflash said:

I don't recall left foot/right foot combinations being a key issues with previous CB combinations

To me it's the combination of players which matters more, the classic WC 66 combination of the classy intelligent player combined with the big tough player to win the physical and aerial battles still makes sense unless you're playing Man City or Barcelona. When up against Millwall again, we will need the right CBs to compete in the air.

In a direct style it's less important but if you want to play and be incisive from back, its vital.

harveys_gardener · January 2020

As Simonson says in days gone by the job of a CB was to launch it. If on your wrong foot it invariably went into stands. Football has changed. More so, even since we were last in this division.

2121 · January 2020

I thought odoh was ok. Imagine if we had full team out not injuries and were attacking and dominating. Odah would suit that side.

For the life of me don't remember vennings doing anything, if anyone can enlighten me?

Talal · January 2020

2121 said:

I thought odoh was ok. Imagine if we had full team out not injuries and were attacking and dominating. Odah would suit that side.

For the life of me don't remember vennings doing anything, if anyone can enlighten me?

Didn't do much of note that I can recall but is tidy in possession, doesn't misplace many passes.

cafcfan1990 · January 2020

harveys_gardener said:

As Simonson says in days gone by the job of a CB was to launch it. If on your wrong foot it invariably went into stands. Football has changed. More so, even since we were last in this division.

Liverpool play out from the back, which of their CBs are left footed?

Scoham · January 2020

https://twitter.com/bullohenry_1966/status/1213872278783614978?s=21

harveys_gardener · January 2020

cafcfan1990 said:

harveys_gardener said:

As Simonson says in days gone by the job of a CB was to launch it. If on your wrong foot it invariably went into stands. Football has changed. More so, even since we were last in this division.

Liverpool play out from the back, which of their CBs are left footed?

Not a statement supporting one of each, but of CBs who can pass. Remember the old days, it was about one CB attacking the ball and the other scooping up the scraps, a la Chris Perry, Bobby Moore. Times have changed.

sam3110 · January 2020

hoof_it_up_to_benty said:

ForeverAddickted said:

cafcfan1990 said:

ForeverAddickted said:

cafcfan1990 said:

ForeverAddickted said:

SouthLondonisRed said:

ForeverAddickted said:

SouthLondonisRed said:

How did Hemed, Williams and our new signing Green play? Did they do alright?

Hemed; Didnt get much service so pretty ineffective

Green; Needs to pass a little better but a threat

Williams; eased his way back, showed glimpses

Thanks mate.
Does Hemed look like a player he could do things when we have key players back?
Glad that I heard Williams left the pitch with no limps which is excellent news.
Good to hear also that Green sounds like a threat, hopefully the next couple games he will ease in properly and show us why we have signed him.
I'm just so happy with how the kids have played recently. We just haven't been battered and they have fought and battled every single minute they have all played.

Hemed had one chance at the death, proper snapshot out of nothing which just narrowly went over - Hopefully he's been managed a lot better after having a poor pre-season so can involved properly now

I think beyond doubt that Hemed has technical ability, certainly enough to be a decent Championship player. The concern is by the time he gets up to speed it’s already going to be March.

Hemed is a finisher, a poacher of a Striker

It worked for Brighton when he got them into the Premier League, just need our midfielders to provide him with the right service

Agreed, but that’s the concern. Getting used to our style, movement etc all takes time. It’s January so he hasn’t got that on his side now.

Yeah I agree in that sense

Hemed to me looks the sort of player who needs it to his feet in the box, his heading doesnt look brilliant

We're a team that cross it high into the box

Hence why I think he's struggled when he has played

I've never seen him win a header.

He won 3 today all to our players

harveys_gardener · January 2020

On Henry's debut at 16, don't remember him from U18 or televised games but surprising that contemporaries Ladapo and Toure are not on the radar. Bob?

cafcfan1990 · January 2020

harveys_gardener said:

cafcfan1990 said:

harveys_gardener said:

As Simonson says in days gone by the job of a CB was to launch it. If on your wrong foot it invariably went into stands. Football has changed. More so, even since we were last in this division.

Liverpool play out from the back, which of their CBs are left footed?

Not a statement supporting one of each, but of CBs who can pass. Remember the old days, it was about one CB attacking the ball and the other scooping up the scraps, a la Chris Perry, Bobby Moore. Times have changed.

Then why mention their opposite foot? Either way a professional CB should be able to play either side.

golfaddick · January 2020

Wasn't at the game & only watched 15 mins on live stream so not going to comment on the match apart from saying mission accomplished.......no replay & no injuries.

Now onto the real issue in hand.....staying up. Only 2 games now this month & ones that we are not expected to win. After Preston we have 2 weeks rest & so by Barnsley on the 1st of Feb hopefully we will have Taylor, Bonne, Cullen back alongside Williams & Hemed. Add in 2 or 3 new signings then I would like to think we would have enough to stay up.

I would then go with a back 5 of Matthews, Oshilaja, Lockyer , Sarr & Dougherty. Midfield of Cullen, Williams, Green & Gallagher with Taylor up top. Bench of Pearce, Solly, Prately, Bonne, Hemed plus new addition(s). Injuries will obviously play a part but you get the gist.