I didnt watch today but surely if they players keep underperforming/not trying we should be fining them. At this point we may as well blood the youth players they can't be any worse. Morgan should be starting, Maynard Brewster in goal. What's happened to Barker?
Yeah he’s really good, asks important questions in his interviews with Bowyer and his analysis is really strong. A good addition to the Charlton ecosystem!
It’s looking increasingly likely that Thomas is siding with manager over players.
In which case my primary concern (genuinely) is whether we have have enough to stay up, and I'm not hugely in the Bowyer out camp either. I've looked at the gap to the bottom four this evening for the first time this season.
If the whole apparatus of the club has essentially given up on the people who have to go out and put their bodies on the line for it over the next 16 games that is a real worry. We probably need another 7 or so points to stay in the division.
Very good point on this particular clip. TS very much needs the fans onside with regard the manager & the team when next season starts. Fans being back inside stadiums will be massive & having a fanbase being negative towards the manager from day 1 wont get bums on seats / drive season ticket sales. Even more important to get a new manager in asap to show fans what Mr X can do with this rabble.
It’s looking increasingly likely that Thomas is siding with manager over players.
If this is the case (and it looks like it is) then you might as well discard the majority of the players who won't be here next season. I say majority as obviously some of the good loan players like Famewo, Millar and Stockley we'll need to play as there is no one to rival them.
Focus on the players who will be here next season (i know there aren't many) but the likes of Gunter, Morgan, DJ, Gilbey, Washington i believe are contracted beyond this summer. To that we can start to play more youngsters who can come in for next year, Barker, Aaron Henry, Vennings etc.
There is literally no point playing the likes of Watson, Oshilaja, Pearce etc who are shit/past it and out of contract. I'd rather we lost games giving minutes to Barker who will give his all, than play Pearce or Oshilaja who will offer us nothing going into next season.
If we had 50+ pts on the board, siding with the manager might make more sense. On 44 points we ain't safe yet - and it might only need 2 wins, but where are they coming from right now?
I've said before, I'd rather have success next season with Bowyer than without him, but it's far from a given that he'll be able to deliver that sucess even if he is given the time and patience some of still believe he has earnt, and with our place in League 1 next season not yet secured, TS will need decent pair of cojones to stay the course if things don't improve at least a bit and soon.
What a bloody mess, this pissin' club can't let you be happy for more than 5 bloody minutes can it?
The question is. What is the reason this has happened? Surely Bowyer is the reason, right? So, logically, it would make sense to sack him if he is the one who has created this in the first place. If it’s true that there is a manager/players divide I can say I’ve never experienced it before (at least to this extent) and that is very concerning. And the thing is I could actually see Bowyer being able to create this toxic environment and that’s really not good at all. And who’s to say it wouldn’t happen again if he was kept on. Unsustainable I would say.
I've never been in a working environment where there is such a divide between management and the shop floor. But I know of two instances. One was within the company I work for but in a different office. I didn't know anyone in that office personally, but there was a manager there who was not popular with her team - to the extent that 8 people in an office of 11 all handed in their notice on the same day. In that situation, the manger got fired, but the staff still all left and that office took years to recover. Those staff still worked hard to service their clients and for the good of their own careers.
The other is my wife's line of work - she's a public sector worker (social worker) and a union member. She is constantly undervalued and put upon by her employer (the local government), or the management that represents the local government. Management is not going to change for her unless the electorate decides otherwise, but she turns up every day, as do her colleagues, and works damn hard with pride in her job to support the members of the public as best she can. She has, however, been on strike in the past trying to secure certain things that the government does not want to provide.
There's two sides to the story in both those cases, and they have different outcomes and maybe aren't totally relevant to Charlton, but in neither case did the workers (who would be the players in CAFC's case) just stop giving an eff and give up trying at work. I don't think it's acceptable for the players to be behaving like that just because they don't enjoy working with Bowyer. It's short sighted for themselves as well - why would someone else want to sign them if their scouts are watching us play at the moment? As has been identified by others, a lot of them should be thinking about their next contract as well as their current level of happiness.
Obviously we don't know the full story and day to day goings on, but i don't really see how Sandgaard can look at the situation and decide that a squad of around 20 players (many of whom have played entire careers at a higher level), including some who are internationals, are collectively the problem and one man, the manager is in the right.
It's got to be a pretty unique (not that word again) situation whereby a club owner decides to back one man over 20, especially when it's pretty common knowledge that in football it's generally the players who have the power.
Sandgaard is basically saying 'Bowyer is right, i stand by him, you're all shit and most of you will be out of the door before him'. An extremely dangerous thing to do when there's a third of the season remaining and on the face of it the squad have given up playing for him and we still need more points to avoid relegation.
I've never been in a working environment where there is such a divide between management and the shop floor. But I know of two instances. One was within the company I work for but in a different office. I didn't know anyone in that office personally, but there was a manager there who was not popular with her team - to the extent that 8 people in an office of 11 all handed in their notice on the same day. In that situation, the manger got fired, but the staff still all left and that office took years to recover. Those staff still worked hard to service their clients and for the good of their own careers.
The other is my wife's line of work - she's a public sector worker (social worker) and a union member. She is constantly undervalued and put upon by her employer (the local government), or the management that represents the local government. Management is not going to change for her unless the electorate decides otherwise, but she turns up every day, as do her colleagues, and works damn hard with pride in her job to support the members of the public as best she can. She has, however, been on strike in the past trying to secure certain things that the government does not want to provide.
There's two sides to the story in both those cases, and they have different outcomes and maybe aren't totally relevant to Charlton, but in neither case did the workers (who would be the players in CAFC's case) just stop giving an eff and give up trying at work. I don't think it's acceptable for the players to be behaving like that just because they don't enjoy working with Bowyer. It's short sighted for themselves as well - why would someone else want to sign them if their scouts are watching us play at the moment? As has been identified by others, a lot of them should be thinking about their next contract as well as their current level of happiness.
I used to think exactly the same as you do, until I came across a terrible boss that constantly blamed all her employees and made the working environment like hell. There's a very good analysis on the Bowyer thread that explains the possible damages a bad boss could do to employees' performances https://charltonlife.vanillacommunity.com/discussion/comment/4235723/#Comment_4235723 I'm not making excuses for our players but Bowyer obviously is not good at managing a team in bad times and should be the one that is responsible for their poor performances.
We are not safe from relegation and realistically I struggle to see us getting a point from the last 8 games against the best teams in this division. That leaves us 7 games to get 2 or 3 wins. TS does not have time because if Bowyer fudges up the next 3-4 then any new manager coming in has a proper challenge to survive, on his hands all of a sudden.
I've never been in a working environment where there is such a divide between management and the shop floor. But I know of two instances. One was within the company I work for but in a different office. I didn't know anyone in that office personally, but there was a manager there who was not popular with her team - to the extent that 8 people in an office of 11 all handed in their notice on the same day. In that situation, the manger got fired, but the staff still all left and that office took years to recover. Those staff still worked hard to service their clients and for the good of their own careers.
The other is my wife's line of work - she's a public sector worker (social worker) and a union member. She is constantly undervalued and put upon by her employer (the local government), or the management that represents the local government. Management is not going to change for her unless the electorate decides otherwise, but she turns up every day, as do her colleagues, and works damn hard with pride in her job to support the members of the public as best she can. She has, however, been on strike in the past trying to secure certain things that the government does not want to provide.
There's two sides to the story in both those cases, and they have different outcomes and maybe aren't totally relevant to Charlton, but in neither case did the workers (who would be the players in CAFC's case) just stop giving an eff and give up trying at work. I don't think it's acceptable for the players to be behaving like that just because they don't enjoy working with Bowyer. It's short sighted for themselves as well - why would someone else want to sign them if their scouts are watching us play at the moment? As has been identified by others, a lot of them should be thinking about their next contract as well as their current level of happiness.
Football’s different in that dropping off in effort by a few percent could be the difference between getting a result or not. Do that in an office and it probably doesn’t get noticed.
I've never been in a working environment where there is such a divide between management and the shop floor. But I know of two instances. One was within the company I work for but in a different office. I didn't know anyone in that office personally, but there was a manager there who was not popular with her team - to the extent that 8 people in an office of 11 all handed in their notice on the same day. In that situation, the manger got fired, but the staff still all left and that office took years to recover. Those staff still worked hard to service their clients and for the good of their own careers.
The other is my wife's line of work - she's a public sector worker (social worker) and a union member. She is constantly undervalued and put upon by her employer (the local government), or the management that represents the local government. Management is not going to change for her unless the electorate decides otherwise, but she turns up every day, as do her colleagues, and works damn hard with pride in her job to support the members of the public as best she can. She has, however, been on strike in the past trying to secure certain things that the government does not want to provide.
There's two sides to the story in both those cases, and they have different outcomes and maybe aren't totally relevant to Charlton, but in neither case did the workers (who would be the players in CAFC's case) just stop giving an eff and give up trying at work. I don't think it's acceptable for the players to be behaving like that just because they don't enjoy working with Bowyer. It's short sighted for themselves as well - why would someone else want to sign them if their scouts are watching us play at the moment? As has been identified by others, a lot of them should be thinking about their next contract as well as their current level of happiness.
Football’s different in that dropping off in effort by a few percent could be the difference between getting a result or not. Do that in an office and it probably doesn’t get noticed.
Exactly. High level sport, of which League one football still very much is, small margins can make massive differences in performances and results.
Obviously we don't know the full story and day to day goings on, but i don't really see how Sandgaard can look at the situation and decide that a squad of around 20 players (many of whom have played entire careers at a higher level), including some who are internationals, are collectively the problem and one man, the manager is in the right.
It's got to be a pretty unique (not that word again) situation whereby a club owner decides to back one man over 20, especially when it's pretty common knowledge that in football it's generally the players who have the power.
Sandgaard is basically saying 'Bowyer is right, i stand by him, you're all shit and most of you will be out of the door before him'. An extremely dangerous thing to do when there's a third of the season remaining and on the face of it the squad have given up playing for him and we still need more points to avoid relegation.
Your first paragraph is somewhat strange, what makes you think there are 20 players that see Bowyer as being to blame for the current situation.........I’ll bet you there aren’t.
Obviously we don't know the full story and day to day goings on, but i don't really see how Sandgaard can look at the situation and decide that a squad of around 20 players (many of whom have played entire careers at a higher level), including some who are internationals, are collectively the problem and one man, the manager is in the right.
It's got to be a pretty unique (not that word again) situation whereby a club owner decides to back one man over 20, especially when it's pretty common knowledge that in football it's generally the players who have the power.
Sandgaard is basically saying 'Bowyer is right, i stand by him, you're all shit and most of you will be out of the door before him'. An extremely dangerous thing to do when there's a third of the season remaining and on the face of it the squad have given up playing for him and we still need more points to avoid relegation.
Your first paragraph is somewhat strange, what makes you think there are 20 players that see Bowyer as being to blame for the current situation.........I’ll bet you there aren’t.
BUT that does seem to be how Bowyer views it/is framing it. He's said, expressly, that he thinks he's a good manager and he's telling everyone all the right things. In this case, then by definition all of those players collectively ignoring him or not understanding him ARE the problem.
Which, yes, is pretty damn strange. But again... What Bowyer does seem to (seriously?) be implying.
Comments
I didnt watch today but surely if they players keep underperforming/not trying we should be fining them. At this point we may as well blood the youth players they can't be any worse. Morgan should be starting, Maynard Brewster in goal. What's happened to Barker?
If the whole apparatus of the club has essentially given up on the people who have to go out and put their bodies on the line for it over the next 16 games that is a real worry. We probably need another 7 or so points to stay in the division.
Focus on the players who will be here next season (i know there aren't many) but the likes of Gunter, Morgan, DJ, Gilbey, Washington i believe are contracted beyond this summer. To that we can start to play more youngsters who can come in for next year, Barker, Aaron Henry, Vennings etc.
There is literally no point playing the likes of Watson, Oshilaja, Pearce etc who are shit/past it and out of contract. I'd rather we lost games giving minutes to Barker who will give his all, than play Pearce or Oshilaja who will offer us nothing going into next season.
It's got to be a pretty unique (not that word again) situation whereby a club owner decides to back one man over 20, especially when it's pretty common knowledge that in football it's generally the players who have the power.
Sandgaard is basically saying 'Bowyer is right, i stand by him, you're all shit and most of you will be out of the door before him'. An extremely dangerous thing to do when there's a third of the season remaining and on the face of it the squad have given up playing for him and we still need more points to avoid relegation.
Which, yes, is pretty damn strange. But again... What Bowyer does seem to (seriously?) be implying.