I bet our results are better with him in the team this season than without
someone can now look it up and prove me wrong
Whether you're right or wrong, don't think we should use team results/stats as a marker for individual performance. There are 21 other players on the pitch, 2 managers and a thousand other factors at play.
Both Watson and Pratley are at the end of their careers and both have seen their pace drop as a result but have other attributes that are a positive and both have leadership/experience. Ideally, I would like to see them replaced with a younger more mobile holding midfielder but that is probably unrealistic until the summer. I would rather Watson in the lineup when we feel we are going to have more possession since he is much better on the ball than Pratley but rather have Pratley when we need to grind out a win against a better squad as he is more combative. I just don’t want both of them playing at the same time
I bet our results are better with him in the team this season than without
someone can now look it up and prove me wrong
Lies, damn lies and statistics. Watson played in all the games of our winning run so our stats with him in the side are going to look good. What that doesn't tell you though is that teams were showing out midfield way too much respect early on and as soon as they figured that out and pressed us we became very poor, Watson particularly so.
It’s interesting as Forest fans have on quite a few occasions said how much they’ve missed him this season and he was pivotal in their campaign last year. We’ve all seen a player in him for sure. I don’t believe he has quite played to his potential for us yet though.
Both Watson and Pratley are at the end of their careers and both have seen their pace drop as a result but have other attributes that are a positive and both have leadership/experience. Ideally, I would like to see them replaced with a younger more mobile holding midfielder but that is probably unrealistic until the summer. I would rather Watson in the lineup when we feel we are going to have more possession since he is much better on the ball than Pratley but rather have Pratley when we need to grind out a win against a better squad as he is more combative. I just don’t want both of them playing at the same time
Pratley to me still seems pretty athletic, he probably has a better engine than JFC or Shinnie
Both Watson and Pratley are at the end of their careers and both have seen their pace drop as a result but have other attributes that are a positive and both have leadership/experience. Ideally, I would like to see them replaced with a younger more mobile holding midfielder but that is probably unrealistic until the summer. I would rather Watson in the lineup when we feel we are going to have more possession since he is much better on the ball than Pratley but rather have Pratley when we need to grind out a win against a better squad as he is more combative. I just don’t want both of them playing at the same time
Pratley to me still seems pretty athletic, he probably has a better engine than JFC or Shinnie
Many 35 year olds still have a very good engine, they can run all day.
The problem is they lose their 'quick feet, the sharp turn, that acceleration over the first half-yard ......... and consequently try to compensate with a stretch or a lunge for the ball, catching the opponent.
It's no coincidence that Watson got so many consecutive bookings or of course Pratley - but then he's a bit of a maverick and more calculated!
Both Watson and Pratley are at the end of their careers and both have seen their pace drop as a result but have other attributes that are a positive and both have leadership/experience. Ideally, I would like to see them replaced with a younger more mobile holding midfielder but that is probably unrealistic until the summer. I would rather Watson in the lineup when we feel we are going to have more possession since he is much better on the ball than Pratley but rather have Pratley when we need to grind out a win against a better squad as he is more combative. I just don’t want both of them playing at the same time
Pratley to me still seems pretty athletic, he probably has a better engine than JFC or Shinnie
Many 35 year olds still have a very good engine, they can run all day.
The problem is they lose their 'quick feet, the sharp turn, that acceleration over the first half-yard ......... and consequently try to compensate with a stretch or a lunge for the ball, catching the opponent.
It's no coincidence that Watson got so many consecutive bookings or of course Pratley - but then he's a bit of a maverick and more calculated!
I do get the feeling that Pratley is pretty old school in that sense and getting in a proper physical scrap is something he quite enjoys - this is not a criticism by the way.
Bowyer giving him the instruction to basically ruin someone's afternoon a la the Dons game would absolutely make his day.
It’s interesting as Forest fans have on quite a few occasions said how much they’ve missed him this season and he was pivotal in their campaign last year. We’ve all seen a player in him for sure. I don’t believe he has quite played to his potential for us yet though.
He plays to deep for us, whether that's tactical, positional or unintentional I don't know. When Forest got back into the game at the Valley last season he was visibly 10 yards further foward. He certainly had a big impact in the last half hour.
How much of our dominance in the first hour was down to him playing too deep? I don't know.
I thought he would be a great signing but he looks the classic example of a player whom has made their money elsewhere, is now comfortable, moved back to be with his family and has different priorities in life. He is in cruise mode and needs replacing at the end of the season with someone angry and hungry.
I thought he would be a great signing but he looks the classic example of a player whom has made their money elsewhere, is now comfortable, moved back to be with his family and has different priorities in life. He is in cruise mode and needs replacing at the end of the season with someone angry and hungry.
I thought he would be a great signing but he looks the classic example of a player whom has made their money elsewhere, is now comfortable, moved back to be with his family and has different priorities in life. He is in cruise mode and needs replacing at the end of the season with someone angry and hungry.
He needs replacing now. Personally I would rather we kept Lapslie and given him a run. Watson has been a major disappointment and that's being polite.
Going to be a struggle to see what they bring to the team when they're on the pitch, but its noticeable when they're not playing
In Ben's case thats no doubt going to happen sooner rather than later as would prefer him to pick up a booking and so miss Oxford instead of Portsmouth
Of course the biggest issue is once the injuries return, that we dont see Watson and Pratley together
Can you do my lotto numbers please. What a Nostradamus level post!
It's all about opinions - but I thought he had a good game last night against Portsmouth. His passing and vision were very good and he got in a few good tackles and one or two searching passes. Bit like Gilbey he seems to have become bit of a scapegoat - maybe his Palace past. Yes - he made an error with their 3rd but could have happened to anyone.
Best thing about Charlton playing is the easy money to be made on the booking points. Watson is amongst 5/6 players who are guaranteed a booking every match when they play.
Always the same suspects; Watson, Pratley, Deji, Pearce, Aneke, Morgan and Maatsen .
It's all about opinions - but I thought he had a good game last night against Portsmouth. His passing and vision were very good and he got in a few good tackles and one or two searching passes. Bit like Gilbey he seems to have become bit of a scapegoat - maybe his Palace past. Yes - he made an error with their 3rd but could have happened to anyone.
We thought the same.
"trouble is he slows things down a bit though" we said when he came on, and then counted 3 quick long balls he made to set up us up on good attacks. And they didn't get the space when attacking us that they had in the first half. Apart from the third goal of course..
Considering that Ben Watson is 35, not match fit just coming back from injury having missed a month ....... I thought he did reasonably well.
His movement, tidying up, tackling and passing was decent and he was well involved ..... he was also fouled in the box that the inadequate referee failed to spot/chose to ignore for what should have been a certain penalty. It would have been a free kick anywhere else on the park, so had to be a penalty in the box.
That 3rd goal conceded from Matthews poor clearance: why Watson thought he could toe poke the ball round the onrushing forward and didn't leather it into Row Z, I have no idea. With his experience too. But really, that's the only major faff I can remember him making.
I think we should also consider that JFC had a very pedestrian game last night - perhaps both he and Watson together slows down our midfield ball distribution, allowing opponents to get numbers behind the ball ........ it's not the right combo. We were crying out for quick thinking and movement last night.
I think that playing Watson I’m front of the back 4 if he stays fit will make all the difference over the next run of games. He played in 4 of our 6 game winning run. The back 4 need better protection from the midfield and he does that. He is a very good player even now . He did make a mistake last night for the 3rd goal but the silly back flick from Mathews was a big contribution.As an aside although Matthews had an excellent season last year he has been pretty poor this year. Arguably he was partly responsible for the first goal ( poor challenge ) and the 3rd goal last night with the back flick
I think that playing Watson I’m front of the back 4 if he stays fit will make all the difference over the next run of games. He played in 4 of our 6 game winning run. The back 4 need better protection from the midfield and he does that. He is a very good player even now . He did make a mistake last night for the 3rd goal but the silly back flick from Mathews was a big contribution.As an aside although Matthews had an excellent season last year he has been pretty poor this year. Arguably he was partly responsible for the first goal ( poor challenge ) and the 3rd goal last night with the back flick
With Matthews you picked out a couple of things he may have done better - but in itself didn't directly cost us a goal. Other players afterwards had opportunity to clear the danger. And should have done so.
But you don't mention any of the many things he did right, the tackles he made, tidy passing, how he was often exposed by lack of midfield cover, his forays down the wing yet no support. It's too easy to pick on an incident and cast blame but it's a team game - and while no defender will ever score 10/10, you have to look at the context.
And here lies the problem, people saying considering he's 35, we shouldn't be factoring age into whether he's good enough or not.
It would appear he is not and he needs to be let go end of season, Pratley too especially when you consider Pratley wasn't even first choice in the promotion team 2 years ago.
And here lies the problem, people saying considering he's 35, we shouldn't be factoring age into whether he's good enough or not.
It would appear he is not and he needs to be let go end of season, Pratley too especially when you consider Pratley wasn't even first choice in the promotion team 2 years ago.
In my post I mentioned that Watson was 35 ..... but only in the context of an older player returning from a month's absence with injury and lacking match fitness.
Apart from his cock up for the 3rd goal ...... his game contribution was positive and decent. A few younger players than Watson didn't show so well.
I'd happily let both Watson and Pratley go in the summer. Many will disagree about Pratley, and if the salary cap isn't an issue perhaps there's room for him as cover, but in the summer we need to move on and build a team for the long term. We need more energy, mobility and hunger throughout the squad. I'm not one to blame a lack of passion and effort, but I think the point above on Watson coasting is likely true for others in the squad. Several have had solid careers and are at the point where they aren't going to improve. Some could find themselves falling down the leagues quite likely, just as Solly has.
Watson has an extension clause in his contract and he has to play a certain amount of games to trigger it. Hasn't been said what the amount is. I sincerely hope he doesn't reach it. An uncommitted 36 year old is not what we need for a squad rebuild next year.
Both Watson and Pratley are at the end of their careers and both have seen their pace drop as a result but have other attributes that are a positive and both have leadership/experience. Ideally, I would like to see them replaced with a younger more mobile holding midfielder but that is probably unrealistic until the summer. I would rather Watson in the lineup when we feel we are going to have more possession since he is much better on the ball than Pratley but rather have Pratley when we need to grind out a win against a better squad as he is more combative. I just don’t want both of them playing at the same time
Pratley to me still seems pretty athletic, he probably has a better engine than JFC or Shinnie
Many 35 year olds still have a very good engine, they can run all day.
The problem is they lose their 'quick feet, the sharp turn, that acceleration over the first half-yard ......... and consequently try to compensate with a stretch or a lunge for the ball, catching the opponent.
It's no coincidence that Watson got so many consecutive bookings or of course Pratley - but then he's a bit of a maverick and more calculated!
I do get the feeling that Pratley is pretty old school in that sense and getting in a proper physical scrap is something he quite enjoys - this is not a criticism by the way.
Bowyer giving him the instruction to basically ruin someone's afternoon a la the Dons game would absolutely make his day.
I feel Pratley is best used if you have a tough battle of an away game and want someone to get stuck in and break up the oppositions flow.
At home when you want to be on the front foot, play quickly, and take the game to the opposition then he's not the man for that.
Comments
Lies, damn lies and statistics. Watson played in all the games of our winning run so our stats with him in the side are going to look good. What that doesn't tell you though is that teams were showing out midfield way too much respect early on and as soon as they figured that out and pressed us we became very poor, Watson particularly so.
As he can't we should be regularly rotating these two. and JFC gets to play LCM alongside Shinnie or Morgan.
Many 35 year olds still have a very good engine, they can run all day.
The problem is they lose their 'quick feet, the sharp turn, that acceleration over the first half-yard ......... and consequently try to compensate with a stretch or a lunge for the ball, catching the opponent.
It's no coincidence that Watson got so many consecutive bookings or of course Pratley - but then he's a bit of a maverick and more calculated!
Bowyer giving him the instruction to basically ruin someone's afternoon a la the Dons game would absolutely make his day.
How much of our dominance in the first hour was down to him playing too deep? I don't know.
Personally I would rather we kept Lapslie and given him a run.
Watson has been a major disappointment and that's being polite.
Always the same suspects; Watson, Pratley, Deji, Pearce, Aneke, Morgan and Maatsen .
We thought the same.
"trouble is he slows things down a bit though" we said when he came on, and then counted 3 quick long balls he made to set up us up on good attacks. And they didn't get the space when attacking us that they had in the first half. Apart from the third goal of course..
His movement, tidying up, tackling and passing was decent and he was well involved ..... he was also fouled in the box that the inadequate referee failed to spot/chose to ignore for what should have been a certain penalty. It would have been a free kick anywhere else on the park, so had to be a penalty in the box.
That 3rd goal conceded from Matthews poor clearance: why Watson thought he could toe poke the ball round the onrushing forward and didn't leather it into Row Z, I have no idea. With his experience too. But really, that's the only major faff I can remember him making.
I think we should also consider that JFC had a very pedestrian game last night - perhaps both he and Watson together slows down our midfield ball distribution, allowing opponents to get numbers behind the ball ........ it's not the right combo. We were crying out for quick thinking and movement last night.
Other players afterwards had opportunity to clear the danger. And should have done so.
But you don't mention any of the many things he did right, the tackles he made, tidy passing, how he was often exposed by lack of midfield cover, his forays down the wing yet no support. It's too easy to pick on an incident and cast blame but it's a team game - and while no defender will ever score 10/10, you have to look at the context.
It would appear he is not and he needs to be let go end of season, Pratley too especially when you consider Pratley wasn't even first choice in the promotion team 2 years ago.
Apart from his cock up for the 3rd goal ...... his game contribution was positive and decent.
A few younger players than Watson didn't show so well.
At home when you want to be on the front foot, play quickly, and take the game to the opposition then he's not the man for that.
One of the worst signings we've ever made.