If we extend Watson, Pratley, maybe Pearce.......how do we actually improve the spine of our team in these crucial positions.
We buy around them. We will be without Famewo and Oshilaja next season, so we will need to sign at least two CBs. Inniss has injury issues, but assuming he doesn't miss as much next season then our aim has to be to bring in two excellent CBs, meaning we have three very good ones and a more experienced head as part of the four. Same in the midfield spots. Having Watson, Pratley and Pearce around is good for the squad and the club, we just want to make sure that they have a limited role on the pitch, closing out games or coming in as a part of rotation or to cover injuries. We can't keep completely retooling our squad, and I think having these experienced pros around is a good thing as long as we bring in younger players who can learn from them. I don't want us to be lining up with any of those three in the starting 11 next season regardless of which division it is, but I'll be happy to still have them around
I wonder if he's being pencilled in to be Bowyer's equivalent to Andy Hughes. Not expected to be an integral part of the team regularly but an experienced older head to serve as a good "middle man" between the players and the management.
Obviously he doesn't have the dynamism/fitness that Hughes did but if Bowyer is looking for someone to teach younger players the importance of anticipation and positioning in the midfield he'd be a decent enough example of how to maximize those abilities.
If we extend Watson, Pratley, maybe Pearce.......how do we actually improve the spine of our team in these crucial positions.
Exactly
The problem isn't that they are in the 25 man squad. The problem is they were in our 1st eleven because they were the best avaliable too often.
You can say exactly the same for almost all of our 24 man squad. You probably need to keep 15 at a minimum.
Absolutely no way will 15 of our current squad be here next season. A complete overhaul is needed if we are serious about promotion.
But if you do keep 15 your still looking at 10 new players. Even Powell didn't bring in 15 players, better than the ones we have now.
Our problem is, with very few exceptions, our 24 are all at the same level. Including some of the loans.
Our 2nd 11 would probably only be a few points behind our 1st eleven. Although it's the middle of March and none of us actually know what our first 11 is.
Plus one of the "excuses" for this season is we had too many new players. Will time to jell still be an issue this time next year?
In defence of Ben Watson. I think, when he joined, he wasn't fit and was definitely rusty. He now seems to be fitter and being played in a position that suits him well. Playing just ahead of defence is probably a position where his experience of reading the game is more important than out and out pace and he seems to be able to pick a good pass. We look more solid at the back with him in the team. I think he's probably got another season in him - but will need managing.
he wasn't that rusty. He signed in July and had played over 40 games for Forest the previous season.
not good enough to protect the back 4 as he is too easily outpaced and nearly every attempted tackle is so late it's almost deceased. Plus he's probably on a big salary that could be better used on a mobile box to box midfielder.
I'm a bit confused. (Not for the first time lately!)
Has he played enough games already to trigger the extension or does he still have to play a number more to get to the point where he gets a new contract?
If it's the latter, and he suddenly drops out of the team, it's fairly clear Charlton don't want to offer him a new contract.
If we extend Watson, Pratley, maybe Pearce.......how do we actually improve the spine of our team in these crucial positions.
Exactly
The problem isn't that they are in the 25 man squad. The problem is they were in our 1st eleven because they were the best avaliable too often.
You can say exactly the same for almost all of our 24 man squad. You probably need to keep 15 at a minimum.
Absolutely no way will 15 of our current squad be here next season. A complete overhaul is needed if we are serious about promotion.
But if you do keep 15 your still looking at 10 new players. Even Powell didn't bring in 15 players, better than the ones we have now.
Our problem is, with very few exceptions, our 24 are all at the same level. Including some of the loans.
Our 2nd 11 would probably only be a few points behind our 1st eleven. Although it's the middle of March and none of us actually know what our first 11 is.
Plus one of the "excuses" for this season is we had too many new players. Will time to jell still be an issue this time next year?
Class above most of our squad, even with his age slowing him up, his reading of the game and positional sense is second to none at Charlton . Would be lovely to find some decent players to keep him out of the team but that’ll take a lot of luck and miracles
2-3 OK recent performances haven’t changed my opinion that his signing has been a let down.
Doesn’t seem as though there’s much we can do about it though, so he’ll be here next season. Hopefully we’ll have some better players through the door to ensure he’s not still playing every bloody week though.
Out of interest - if he maintained current performance levels (top 4 in the team for the last few games by the statbank) would that change your mind?
To be honest, I don’t even think he’s been that good in those 2-3 games. He’s been OK, but not as good as some have made out.
If we extend Watson, Pratley, maybe Pearce.......how do we actually improve the spine of our team in these crucial positions.
Exactly
The problem isn't that they are in the 25 man squad. The problem is they were in our 1st eleven because they were the best avaliable too often.
You can say exactly the same for almost all of our 24 man squad. You probably need to keep 15 at a minimum.
Absolutely no way will 15 of our current squad be here next season. A complete overhaul is needed if we are serious about promotion.
But if you do keep 15 your still looking at 10 new players. Even Powell didn't bring in 15 players, better than the ones we have now.
Our problem is, with very few exceptions, our 24 are all at the same level. Including some of the loans.
Our 2nd 11 would probably only be a few points behind our 1st eleven. Although it's the middle of March and none of us actually know what our first 11 is.
Plus one of the "excuses" for this season is we had too many new players. Will time to jell still be an issue this time next year?
He bought in 20 players, in that season, but that included the likes of Sullivan, Bover, Alonso and Evina (who wouldn't improve us now) as well as Smith and Pope who were more academy players and he wasn't restricted by the transfer window.
What I am saying is if we signed the equivalent of Morrison, Court, Wiggins, Stephens, Holland, Green and Yann we wouldn't need to sign 15 plus.
If we extend Watson, Pratley, maybe Pearce.......how do we actually improve the spine of our team in these crucial positions.
Exactly
The problem isn't that they are in the 25 man squad. The problem is they were in our 1st eleven because they were the best avaliable too often.
You can say exactly the same for almost all of our 24 man squad. You probably need to keep 15 at a minimum.
Absolutely no way will 15 of our current squad be here next season. A complete overhaul is needed if we are serious about promotion.
But if you do keep 15 your still looking at 10 new players. Even Powell didn't bring in 15 players, better than the ones we have now.
Our problem is, with very few exceptions, our 24 are all at the same level. Including some of the loans.
Our 2nd 11 would probably only be a few points behind our 1st eleven. Although it's the middle of March and none of us actually know what our first 11 is.
Plus one of the "excuses" for this season is we had too many new players. Will time to jell still be an issue this time next year?
He bought in 20 players, in that season, but that included the likes of Sullivan, Bover, Alonso and Evina (who wouldn't improve us now) as well as Smith and Pope who were more academy players and he wasn't restricted by the transfer window.
What I am saying is if we signed the equivalent of Morrison, Court, Wiggins, Stephens, Holland, Green and Yann we wouldn't need to sign 15 plus.
With the exception of Green, all of them could have played in the Championship and looked comfortable that season, and I would say all of them would walk into the current team if equivalent was available now.
the 2012 team was exceptionally good (Yann being the ingredient that made it click)
I think he is under rated by many, does all the dirty work and gets in the way of a lot of crosses and shots.
Yes he had a couple of stinkers whilst the rest of the team were poor as well, and is quite slow and his passes are often like spongefoot.
It would be nice to get a younger version that plays his position, a bit more mobile. However, still a very decent option at this level. Just hope the wages aren't too much!
If we extend Watson, Pratley, maybe Pearce.......how do we actually improve the spine of our team in these crucial positions.
Exactly
The problem isn't that they are in the 25 man squad. The problem is they were in our 1st eleven because they were the best avaliable too often.
You can say exactly the same for almost all of our 24 man squad. You probably need to keep 15 at a minimum.
Absolutely no way will 15 of our current squad be here next season. A complete overhaul is needed if we are serious about promotion.
But if you do keep 15 your still looking at 10 new players. Even Powell didn't bring in 15 players, better than the ones we have now.
Our problem is, with very few exceptions, our 24 are all at the same level. Including some of the loans.
Our 2nd 11 would probably only be a few points behind our 1st eleven. Although it's the middle of March and none of us actually know what our first 11 is.
Plus one of the "excuses" for this season is we had too many new players. Will time to jell still be an issue this time next year?
He bought in 20 players, in that season, but that included the likes of Sullivan, Bover, Alonso and Evina (who wouldn't improve us now) as well as Smith and Pope who were more academy players and he wasn't restricted by the transfer window.
What I am saying is if we signed the equivalent of Morrison, Court, Wiggins, Stephens, Holland, Green and Yann we wouldn't need to sign 15 plus.
With the exception of Green, all of them could have played in the Championship and looked comfortable that season, and I would say all of them would walk into the current team if equivalent was available now.
the 2012 team was exceptionally good (Yann being the ingredient that made it click)
Yes that's exactly what I am saying. If you add 7 players like that to any of the 18 we currently have you don't need to sign 15+.
We don't need to add 2nd and 3rd choices, because we already have them. Powell didn't.
Amos Gunter JFC Chuks +7 better than what we have
Would be a bloody good team with Matthews, Watson, Morgan, Washington, Gilby etc etc as the rest of the squad.
In defence of Ben Watson. I think, when he joined, he wasn't fit and was definitely rusty. He now seems to be fitter and being played in a position that suits him well. Playing just ahead of defence is probably a position where his experience of reading the game is more important than out and out pace and he seems to be able to pick a good pass. We look more solid at the back with him in the team. I think he's probably got another season in him - but will need managing.
Several of our squad suffered from having no pre-season. A few hadn't even played since end of February.
It's easy to overlook how essential a proper pre-season training is for a player. Without it, players can struggle to catch up for months.
I thought he started quite well for, then went through a bad patch, but has been better again in recent weeks. When playing well, he has the ability to break up play and set us on the attack. He can set the tempo for us. My biggest issue is I think he slows us down (an I don't mean a lack of pace) I think he could generally, at times, release the ball a bit earlier and be a bit more positive in his passing. Did enjoy him giving the lino some stick the other night though - we do need a bit more of that kind of stuff from the team sometimes. I'd say he's worth another year as a member of the squad, particularly on the assumption that we will be in League One again next season, but I also hope we will be able to sign someone who can do most of what he does, but also get around the pitch a bit faster.
If we extend Watson, Pratley, maybe Pearce.......how do we actually improve the spine of our team in these crucial positions.
This.
I assume Bowyer does know that by continually picking Watson he has triggered the extension. He could have just NOT picked him & therefore he would have left in the summer.
Cue Bowyer moaning in September that we can't recruit the right players because we have x y & z still on the books.
In defence of Ben Watson. I think, when he joined, he wasn't fit and was definitely rusty. He now seems to be fitter and being played in a position that suits him well. Playing just ahead of defence is probably a position where his experience of reading the game is more important than out and out pace and he seems to be able to pick a good pass. We look more solid at the back with him in the team. I think he's probably got another season in him - but will need managing.
I'm not sure that stands up. He was training with us for weeks before he even signed.
I thought he would be a great signing but he looks the classic example of a player whom has made their money elsewhere, is now comfortable, moved back to be with his family and has different priorities in life. He is in cruise mode and needs replacing at the end of the season with someone angry and hungry.
Angry? Did you not see his reaction when Pearce got elbowed then? Fair to say he still has a bit about him - not sure all the derogatory comments are justified, he is calm on the ball and a proper 'footballer' but gets caught out a few times, the same as any PL elite midfielder does. We are in League One...
Comments
You can say exactly the same for almost all of our 24 man squad. You probably need to keep 15 at a minimum.
Obviously he doesn't have the dynamism/fitness that Hughes did but if Bowyer is looking for someone to teach younger players the importance of anticipation and positioning in the midfield he'd be a decent enough example of how to maximize those abilities.
Our standards have really fallen.
A complete overhaul is needed if we are serious about promotion.
Our problem is, with very few exceptions, our 24 are all at the same level. Including some of the loans.
Our 2nd 11 would probably only be a few points behind our 1st eleven. Although it's the middle of March and none of us actually know what our first 11 is.
Plus one of the "excuses" for this season is we had too many new players. Will time to jell still be an issue this time next year?
Has he played enough games already to trigger the extension or does he still have to play a number more to get to the point where he gets a new contract?
If it's the latter, and he suddenly drops out of the team, it's fairly clear Charlton don't want to offer him a new contract.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011–12_Charlton_Athletic_F.C._season
Would be lovely to find some decent players to keep him out of the team but that’ll take a lot of luck and miracles
What I am saying is if we signed the equivalent of Morrison, Court, Wiggins, Stephens, Holland, Green and Yann we wouldn't need to sign 15 plus.
the 2012 team was exceptionally good (Yann being the ingredient that made it click)
Yes he had a couple of stinkers whilst the rest of the team were poor as well, and is quite slow and his passes are often like spongefoot.
It would be nice to get a younger version that plays his position, a bit more mobile. However, still a very decent option at this level. Just hope the wages aren't too much!
We don't need to add 2nd and 3rd choices, because we already have them. Powell didn't.
Amos
Gunter
JFC
Chuks
+7 better than what we have
Would be a bloody good team with Matthews, Watson, Morgan, Washington, Gilby etc etc as the rest of the squad.
It's easy to overlook how essential a proper pre-season training is for a player.
Without it, players can struggle to catch up for months.
I assume Bowyer does know that by continually picking Watson he has triggered the extension. He could have just NOT picked him & therefore he would have left in the summer.
Cue Bowyer moaning in September that we can't recruit the right players because we have x y & z still on the books.
Shit for brains some people.