I feel like his stint at Hull and the fact no other club came in for him has affected him.
This is a guy who for years, not just the odd good spell, but for a good 4+ years was one of the best players in league one. He turned down a new contract at Peterborough and clearly expected clubs to be queuing up to sign him. Probably expected top half championship sides to be after him. They weren't.
He took Hull as a last ditch option and it didn't go well for him, and for me it looks like he hasn't really recovered from that. Then he missed pre season and wasn't really properly fit and again is struggling.
No idea what happened in the last two years to him, but he has definitely lost his desire to prove himself and progress in football.
Sack him and move on. Surely turning up late for a game when your accommodation is minutes away is gross misconduct. May not be directly for us, but reflects on us.
(Yep now of the opinion the bloke is never going to get back on track)
George Graham once missed a game for Crystal Palace on Boxing Day. He found out thecgame was that day while eating Christmas dinner and having the TV on where it mentioned the game and his name.. he wasn't sacked but was deeply embarrassed by it.
He was eating his Christmas dinner on Boxing day? That IS gross misconduct.
No idea what happened in the last two years to him, but he has definitely lost his desire to prove himself and progress in football.
Sack him and move on. Surely turning up late for a game when your accommodation is minutes away is gross misconduct. May not be directly for us, but reflects on us.
(Yep now of the opinion the bloke is never going to get back on track)
George Graham once missed a game for Crystal Palace on Boxing Day. He found out thecgame was that day while eating Christmas dinner and having the TV on where it mentioned the game and his name.. he wasn't sacked but was deeply embarrassed by it.
How on earth do you forget a game on boxing day?!
Back then when Sky didn't rule everything, didn't every team play on boxing day?
No idea what happened in the last two years to him, but he has definitely lost his desire to prove himself and progress in football.
Sack him and move on. Surely turning up late for a game when your accommodation is minutes away is gross misconduct. May not be directly for us, but reflects on us.
(Yep now of the opinion the bloke is never going to get back on track)
George Graham once missed a game for Crystal Palace on Boxing Day. He found out thecgame was that day while eating Christmas dinner and having the TV on where it mentioned the game and his name.. he wasn't sacked but was deeply embarrassed by it.
How on earth do you forget a game on boxing day?!
Back then when Sky didn't rule everything, didn't every team play on boxing day?
Probably before George Graham played but I can just about remember when teams played on Christmas day.
No idea what happened in the last two years to him, but he has definitely lost his desire to prove himself and progress in football.
Sack him and move on. Surely turning up late for a game when your accommodation is minutes away is gross misconduct. May not be directly for us, but reflects on us.
(Yep now of the opinion the bloke is never going to get back on track)
George Graham once missed a game for Crystal Palace on Boxing Day. He found out thecgame was that day while eating Christmas dinner and having the TV on where it mentioned the game and his name.. he wasn't sacked but was deeply embarrassed by it.
How on earth do you forget a game on boxing day?!
Back then when Sky didn't rule everything, didn't every team play on boxing day?
Probably before George Graham played but I can just about remember when teams played on Christmas day.
Fixtures used to be on the 25th and 26th December, playing each other home and away.
I feel like his stint at Hull and the fact no other club came in for him has affected him.
This is a guy who for years, not just the odd good spell, but for a good 4+ years was one of the best players in league one. He turned down a new contract at Peterborough and clearly expected clubs to be queuing up to sign him. Probably expected top half championship sides to be after him. They weren't.
He took Hull as a last ditch option and it didn't go well for him, and for me it looks like he hasn't really recovered from that. Then he missed pre season and wasn't really properly fit and again is struggling.
Yes, there's been a lot of talk about mental health in the news today, and Maddison definitely looks like someone with issues at the moment.
The thing with Maddison is you have to look at why he stayed at Peterborough for so long. There must have been championship scouts at almost every game he played, even if they weren't looking at him.
Look at the players they sold upwards on that time. Then look at some of the players we have sold to championship clubs, when we have been in league 1. Like Fox and Williams. They were producing eye catching displays.
There is a reason no one took the punt. It certainly wasn't ability or end product.
A tattooist? Has it got any easier (if at all) to remove tattoos from a person’s body? Purely a personal opinion but I have never seen a tattooed part of a person where I haven’t thought it would look much better if the tattoo wasn’t there.
For fuck sake, not this again
Come to that neither have I and the older one gets the more it doesn't seem to suit .
I know I'm likely to piss off a few people here, but feel like I have to say it.
Is it possible for someone to just be lazy / an idiot / unprofessional etc without their 'mental health' being brought into it and used as an excuse for them?
Some people don't want to work as hard, and those people won't get as far as they could. Just going straight to the argument of "Oh their mental health must be in a poor state, hopefully they figure it out" can completely take the responsibility away from those who sometimes quite simply just need a kick up the arse.
I'm sorry if I'm coming across as insensitive, and if there are truly mental health issues involved with any player then I do hope they get addressed, but as a society we need to stop this mentality of letting people get away with unprofessionalism by just shouting "mental health" left, right and center.
Mental health is important, as I've come to realize myself later in life, but sometimes - people just need to take some personal responsibility.
I know I'm likely to piss off a few people here, but feel like I have to say it.
Is it possible for someone to just be lazy / an idiot / unprofessional etc without their 'mental health' being brought into it and used as an excuse for them?
Some people don't want to work as hard, and those people won't get as far as they could. Just going straight to the argument of "Oh their mental health must be in a poor state, hopefully they figure it out" can completely take the responsibility away from those who sometimes quite simply just need a kick up the arse.
I'm sorry if I'm coming across as insensitive, and if there are truly mental health issues involved with any player then I do hope they get addressed, but as a society we need to stop this mentality of letting people get away with unprofessionalism by just shouting "mental health" left, right and center.
Mental health is important, as I've come to realize myself later in life, but sometimes - people just need to take some personal responsibility.
I don’t think what you’ve said is unreasonable. But I also think Maddison has shown a lot of traits of someone who suffers and deserves a degree of sympathy. I also agree that you have to take responsibility and it’s quite often a convenient mistake. I think Maddison suffers from mental health issues but I also think he’s a complete idiot.
I think it’s been highlighted a lot more with the pandemic. I don’t think you are being insensitive but having suffered myself it’s such a weird and unique process. I was fortunate it was mild but come into contact with people on a regular basis who have it much worse. Whilst I agree giving everyone the excuse of crying wolf isn’t the answer, neither is ignoring the fact that suicides have become an issue in society.
I know I'm likely to piss off a few people here, but feel like I have to say it.
Is it possible for someone to just be lazy / an idiot / unprofessional etc without their 'mental health' being brought into it and used as an excuse for them?
Some people don't want to work as hard, and those people won't get as far as they could. Just going straight to the argument of "Oh their mental health must be in a poor state, hopefully they figure it out" can completely take the responsibility away from those who sometimes quite simply just need a kick up the arse.
I'm sorry if I'm coming across as insensitive, and if there are truly mental health issues involved with any player then I do hope they get addressed, but as a society we need to stop this mentality of letting people get away with unprofessionalism by just shouting "mental health" left, right and center.
Mental health is important, as I've come to realize myself later in life, but sometimes - people just need to take some personal responsibility.
Do we do this as a society? Compared to many countries the UK has quiet a progressive attitude to mental health issues, yet suicide rates, especially among men, continues to increase.
In 2019 there were nearly 5700 suicides registered in in the UK - 4303 of those being between men and boys. This of course does not even come close to the numbers of people who maybe have attempted suicide, or suffer from mental health issues but harm themselves in other ways.
As progressive as we are as a country with our attitudes towards mental health, I'd argue that as a society we don't do enough. And I think comments, and thought processes like yours are a perfect case in point as to many individuals views of mental health issues and why those who suffer from them are often afraid to seek help about them.
I think anyone who has followed Marcus Maddison for a short period of time on social media will be able see clear signs that everything is not completely right with him - and I hope he seeks the help he needs.
I know I'm likely to piss off a few people here, but feel like I have to say it.
Is it possible for someone to just be lazy / an idiot / unprofessional etc without their 'mental health' being brought into it and used as an excuse for them?
Some people don't want to work as hard, and those people won't get as far as they could. Just going straight to the argument of "Oh their mental health must be in a poor state, hopefully they figure it out" can completely take the responsibility away from those who sometimes quite simply just need a kick up the arse.
I'm sorry if I'm coming across as insensitive, and if there are truly mental health issues involved with any player then I do hope they get addressed, but as a society we need to stop this mentality of letting people get away with unprofessionalism by just shouting "mental health" left, right and center.
Mental health is important, as I've come to realize myself later in life, but sometimes - people just need to take some personal responsibility.
Do we do this as a society? Compared to many countries the UK has quiet a progressive attitude to mental health issues, yet suicide rates, especially among men, continues to increase.
In 2019 there were nearly 5700 suicides registered in in the UK - 4303 of those being between men and boys. This of course does not even come close to the numbers of people who maybe have attempted suicide, or suffer from mental health issues but harm themselves in other ways.
As progressive as we are as a country with our attitudes towards mental health, I'd argue that as a society we don't do enough. And I think comments, and thought processes like yours are a perfect case in point as to many individuals views of mental health issues and why those who suffer from them are often afraid to seek help about them.
I think anyone who has followed Marcus Maddison for a short period of time on social media will be able see clear signs that everything is not completely right with him - and I hope he seeks the help he needs.
As a country we seem to be very good at talking about mental health and wellbeing and very bad at talking about mental illness.
A tattooist? Has it got any easier (if at all) to remove tattoos from a person’s body? Purely a personal opinion but I have never seen a tattooed part of a person where I haven’t thought it would look much better if the tattoo wasn’t there.
Given that's he's only on loan and not even been getting in their team recently, are we sure their manager would've come out and defended him if he had overslept and not turned up?
Given that's he's only on loan and not even been getting in their team recently, are we sure their manager would've come out and defended him if he had overslept and not turned up?
They might still need him, they can't replace him. No point shooting yourself in the foot and having one less player. Best to deal with it privately and defend him in public?
Given that's he's only on loan and not even been getting in their team recently, are we sure their manager would've come out and defended him if he had overslept and not turned up?
You could be right, and many managers wouldn't defend Maddison after that. However for me I think maybe it is just good man management, especially if the correct things were done behind the scenes.
The players will know that in public you will always have their back, and I expect as much will give that little extra for you on the pitch when needed.
I know I'm likely to piss off a few people here, but feel like I have to say it.
Is it possible for someone to just be lazy / an idiot / unprofessional etc without their 'mental health' being brought into it and used as an excuse for them?
Some people don't want to work as hard, and those people won't get as far as they could. Just going straight to the argument of "Oh their mental health must be in a poor state, hopefully they figure it out" can completely take the responsibility away from those who sometimes quite simply just need a kick up the arse.
I'm sorry if I'm coming across as insensitive, and if there are truly mental health issues involved with any player then I do hope they get addressed, but as a society we need to stop this mentality of letting people get away with unprofessionalism by just shouting "mental health" left, right and center.
Mental health is important, as I've come to realize myself later in life, but sometimes - people just need to take some personal responsibility.
The thing about this is it doesn't have to be a mutually exclusive scenario like you're suggesting. Acknowledgement of potential mental health issues doesn't have to be an excuse, we can still acknowledge that something is there while holding people responsible for their actions. Acknowledgement of circumstances and the complexity of why someone behaves the way they do isn't justification. I do think Maddison has some mental health issues. I also think he's a bit of a splod and he does stupid things, and that's just who he is. I hope he gets some help for his issues if he does have them, and that won't mean the chances he's thrown away can be looked back on as out of his control, but it's good to examine why people might get to where they are. I think it's pretty unfair to say we as a society let people get away with unprofessionalism based on their mental health; far more people are punished for their mental health issues than are given a free pass. I don't think there's anyone on here saying that Maddison's actions should be ignored, just maybe that he shouldn't be piled in on when he does something stupid (which I don't think is anywhere near as much an issue on here as it tends to be on other social media) because that isn't going to help someone in a difficult place mentally make any improvement.
I know I'm likely to piss off a few people here, but feel like I have to say it.
Is it possible for someone to just be lazy / an idiot / unprofessional etc without their 'mental health' being brought into it and used as an excuse for them?
Some people don't want to work as hard, and those people won't get as far as they could. Just going straight to the argument of "Oh their mental health must be in a poor state, hopefully they figure it out" can completely take the responsibility away from those who sometimes quite simply just need a kick up the arse.
I'm sorry if I'm coming across as insensitive, and if there are truly mental health issues involved with any player then I do hope they get addressed, but as a society we need to stop this mentality of letting people get away with unprofessionalism by just shouting "mental health" left, right and center.
Mental health is important, as I've come to realize myself later in life, but sometimes - people just need to take some personal responsibility.
Do we do this as a society? Compared to many countries the UK has quiet a progressive attitude to mental health issues, yet suicide rates, especially among men, continues to increase.
In 2019 there were nearly 5700 suicides registered in in the UK - 4303 of those being between men and boys. This of course does not even come close to the numbers of people who maybe have attempted suicide, or suffer from mental health issues but harm themselves in other ways.
As progressive as we are as a country with our attitudes towards mental health, I'd argue that as a society we don't do enough. And I think comments, and thought processes like yours are a perfect case in point as to many individuals views of mental health issues and why those who suffer from them are often afraid to seek help about them.
I think anyone who has followed Marcus Maddison for a short period of time on social media will be able see clear signs that everything is not completely right with him - and I hope he seeks the help he needs.
At no point have I said that people with mental health issues should not seek help. And if I had people in my family or friendship group who were going through a struggle then I’d encourage them to do so. Depression, anxiety, loneliness etc are all very powerful things that shouldn’t be underestimated.
My point is that as a society we are too quick to give somebody an excuse by just going straight to the mental health topic and assuming they need urgent intervention.
I have a friend who was going through a period in his early twenties where he was missing work, turning up late, not looking after himself etc. His partner at the time told him “I think you have depression”. Today, that lad will admit that it was one of the worst things anyone could have done for him. It completely removed his sense of accountability, and whenever questioned as to why he wasn’t able to be at his best - he’d just jump straight to “I suffer from depression”, even though it was more down to the fact that he just didn’t enjoy his job and wouldn’t take responsibility for doing something about it.
I’m well aware of the numbers around male suicide and mental health issues. Trust me, I’ve not had an easy ride myself over the past year. But my point is that we need to stop making the judgement for other people as to whether they are suffering or not.
I know I'm likely to piss off a few people here, but feel like I have to say it.
Is it possible for someone to just be lazy / an idiot / unprofessional etc without their 'mental health' being brought into it and used as an excuse for them?
Some people don't want to work as hard, and those people won't get as far as they could. Just going straight to the argument of "Oh their mental health must be in a poor state, hopefully they figure it out" can completely take the responsibility away from those who sometimes quite simply just need a kick up the arse.
I'm sorry if I'm coming across as insensitive, and if there are truly mental health issues involved with any player then I do hope they get addressed, but as a society we need to stop this mentality of letting people get away with unprofessionalism by just shouting "mental health" left, right and center.
Mental health is important, as I've come to realize myself later in life, but sometimes - people just need to take some personal responsibility.
Do we do this as a society? Compared to many countries the UK has quiet a progressive attitude to mental health issues, yet suicide rates, especially among men, continues to increase.
In 2019 there were nearly 5700 suicides registered in in the UK - 4303 of those being between men and boys. This of course does not even come close to the numbers of people who maybe have attempted suicide, or suffer from mental health issues but harm themselves in other ways.
As progressive as we are as a country with our attitudes towards mental health, I'd argue that as a society we don't do enough. And I think comments, and thought processes like yours are a perfect case in point as to many individuals views of mental health issues and why those who suffer from them are often afraid to seek help about them.
I think anyone who has followed Marcus Maddison for a short period of time on social media will be able see clear signs that everything is not completely right with him - and I hope he seeks the help he needs.
At no point have I said that people with mental health issues should not seek help. And if I had people in my family or friendship group who were going through a struggle then I’d encourage them to do so. Depression, anxiety, loneliness etc are all very powerful things that shouldn’t be underestimated.
My point is that as a society we are too quick to give somebody an excuse by just going straight to the mental health topic and assuming they need urgent intervention.
I have a friend who was going through a period in his early twenties where he was missing work, turning up late, not looking after himself etc. His partner at the time told him “I think you have depression”. Today, that lad will admit that it was one of the worst things anyone could have done for him. It completely removed his sense of accountability, and whenever questioned as to why he wasn’t able to be at his best - he’d just jump straight to “I suffer from depression”, even though it was more down to the fact that he just didn’t enjoy his job and wouldn’t take responsibility for doing something about it.
I’m well aware of the numbers around male suicide and mental health issues. Trust me, I’ve not had an easy ride myself over the past year. But my point is that we need to stop making the judgement for other people as to whether they are suffering or not.
I would argue an increase in suicide in recent years would indicate the complete opposite is happening.
And to clarify I didn't accuse you of telling people to not seek help, indeed I think you make some well thought out points - I was using the point that many people won't seek mental health support because there's still this stigma and fight back around it that you yourself mentioned.
I know I'm likely to piss off a few people here, but feel like I have to say it.
Is it possible for someone to just be lazy / an idiot / unprofessional etc without their 'mental health' being brought into it and used as an excuse for them?
Some people don't want to work as hard, and those people won't get as far as they could. Just going straight to the argument of "Oh their mental health must be in a poor state, hopefully they figure it out" can completely take the responsibility away from those who sometimes quite simply just need a kick up the arse.
I'm sorry if I'm coming across as insensitive, and if there are truly mental health issues involved with any player then I do hope they get addressed, but as a society we need to stop this mentality of letting people get away with unprofessionalism by just shouting "mental health" left, right and center.
Mental health is important, as I've come to realize myself later in life, but sometimes - people just need to take some personal responsibility.
Do we do this as a society? Compared to many countries the UK has quiet a progressive attitude to mental health issues, yet suicide rates, especially among men, continues to increase.
In 2019 there were nearly 5700 suicides registered in in the UK - 4303 of those being between men and boys. This of course does not even come close to the numbers of people who maybe have attempted suicide, or suffer from mental health issues but harm themselves in other ways.
As progressive as we are as a country with our attitudes towards mental health, I'd argue that as a society we don't do enough. And I think comments, and thought processes like yours are a perfect case in point as to many individuals views of mental health issues and why those who suffer from them are often afraid to seek help about them.
I think anyone who has followed Marcus Maddison for a short period of time on social media will be able see clear signs that everything is not completely right with him - and I hope he seeks the help he needs.
At no point have I said that people with mental health issues should not seek help. And if I had people in my family or friendship group who were going through a struggle then I’d encourage them to do so. Depression, anxiety, loneliness etc are all very powerful things that shouldn’t be underestimated.
My point is that as a society we are too quick to give somebody an excuse by just going straight to the mental health topic and assuming they need urgent intervention.
I have a friend who was going through a period in his early twenties where he was missing work, turning up late, not looking after himself etc. His partner at the time told him “I think you have depression”. Today, that lad will admit that it was one of the worst things anyone could have done for him. It completely removed his sense of accountability, and whenever questioned as to why he wasn’t able to be at his best - he’d just jump straight to “I suffer from depression”, even though it was more down to the fact that he just didn’t enjoy his job and wouldn’t take responsibility for doing something about it.
I’m well aware of the numbers around male suicide and mental health issues. Trust me, I’ve not had an easy ride myself over the past year. But my point is that we need to stop making the judgement for other people as to whether they are suffering or not.
I would argue an increase in suicide in recent years would indicate the complete opposite is happening.
And to clarify I didn't accuse you of telling people to not seek help, indeed I think you make some well thought out points - I was using the point that many people won't seek mental health support because there's still this stigma and fight back around it that you yourself mentioned.
Fair enough. I agree that there is a stigma attached, and to be honest - there probably always will be. The human ego doesn't easily deal with the idea of admitting a struggle or weakness. I genuinely think that we're built that way as a male species, to our detriment unfortunately.
My personal experience has taught me to never be afraid to seek help, but at the same time to never use it as an excuse unnecessarily. I certainly wouldn't want anybody telling me I had a mental health issue just off the back of some Instagram stories.
Its a nuanced topic, and I know not everyone is built the same way.
Given that's he's only on loan and not even been getting in their team recently, are we sure their manager would've come out and defended him if he had overslept and not turned up?
They might still need him, they can't replace him. No point shooting yourself in the foot and having one less player. Best to deal with it privately and defend him in public?
Comments
This is a guy who for years, not just the odd good spell, but for a good 4+ years was one of the best players in league one. He turned down a new contract at Peterborough and clearly expected clubs to be queuing up to sign him. Probably expected top half championship sides to be after him. They weren't.
He took Hull as a last ditch option and it didn't go well for him, and for me it looks like he hasn't really recovered from that. Then he missed pre season and wasn't really properly fit and again is struggling.
Back then when Sky didn't rule everything, didn't every team play on boxing day?
@blackpool72 can recall games.
Look at the players they sold upwards on that time. Then look at some of the players we have sold to championship clubs, when we have been in league 1. Like Fox and Williams. They were producing eye catching displays.
There is a reason no one took the punt. It certainly wasn't ability or end product.
Is it possible for someone to just be lazy / an idiot / unprofessional etc without their 'mental health' being brought into it and used as an excuse for them?
Some people don't want to work as hard, and those people won't get as far as they could. Just going straight to the argument of "Oh their mental health must be in a poor state, hopefully they figure it out" can completely take the responsibility away from those who sometimes quite simply just need a kick up the arse.
I'm sorry if I'm coming across as insensitive, and if there are truly mental health issues involved with any player then I do hope they get addressed, but as a society we need to stop this mentality of letting people get away with unprofessionalism by just shouting "mental health" left, right and center.
Mental health is important, as I've come to realize myself later in life, but sometimes - people just need to take some personal responsibility.
I think it’s been highlighted a lot more with the pandemic. I don’t think you are being insensitive but having suffered myself it’s such a weird and unique process. I was fortunate it was mild but come into contact with people on a regular basis who have it much worse. Whilst I agree giving everyone the excuse of crying wolf isn’t the answer, neither is ignoring the fact that suicides have become an issue in society.
Wow, Sorry boss, can't be arsed
In 2019 there were nearly 5700 suicides registered in in the UK - 4303 of those being between men and boys. This of course does not even come close to the numbers of people who maybe have attempted suicide, or suffer from mental health issues but harm themselves in other ways.
Indeed Mind mention that 1 in 4 individuals will suffer from some form of mental health issue each year - with the true numbers probably being higher: https://www.mind.org.uk/information-support/types-of-mental-health-problems/statistics-and-facts-about-mental-health/how-common-are-mental-health-problems/
As progressive as we are as a country with our attitudes towards mental health, I'd argue that as a society we don't do enough. And I think comments, and thought processes like yours are a perfect case in point as to many individuals views of mental health issues and why those who suffer from them are often afraid to seek help about them.
I think anyone who has followed Marcus Maddison for a short period of time on social media will be able see clear signs that everything is not completely right with him - and I hope he seeks the help he needs.
I can’t get it off of the mattress.
The players will know that in public you will always have their back, and I expect as much will give that little extra for you on the pitch when needed.
My point is that as a society we are too quick to give somebody an excuse by just going straight to the mental health topic and assuming they need urgent intervention.
I have a friend who was going through a period in his early twenties where he was missing work, turning up late, not looking after himself etc. His partner at the time told him “I think you have depression”. Today, that lad will admit that it was one of the worst things anyone could have done for him. It completely removed his sense of accountability, and whenever questioned as to why he wasn’t able to be at his best - he’d just jump straight to “I suffer from depression”, even though it was more down to the fact that he just didn’t enjoy his job and wouldn’t take responsibility for doing something about it.
I’m well aware of the numbers around male suicide and mental health issues. Trust me, I’ve not had an easy ride myself over the past year. But my point is that we need to stop making the judgement for other people as to whether they are suffering or not.
And to clarify I didn't accuse you of telling people to not seek help, indeed I think you make some well thought out points - I was using the point that many people won't seek mental health support because there's still this stigma and fight back around it that you yourself mentioned.
My personal experience has taught me to never be afraid to seek help, but at the same time to never use it as an excuse unnecessarily. I certainly wouldn't want anybody telling me I had a mental health issue just off the back of some Instagram stories.
Its a nuanced topic, and I know not everyone is built the same way.