He's played less than 10 games for us so it seems a bit early to write him off completely unless he's really bad? Regarding Davison would it be better for his development to stay at Woking rather than sit on the bench?
Personally, I would rotate Davison in the way that Washington and Aneke have been rotated in. Being at Woking won't be doing Davison any harm (he's getting games and getting fit) but I would use him at Charlton. I think he's good enough, whereas I'm not sure Bogle is good enough.
Problem is, he doesn't even look close to scoring.
He was very close to scoring early on, last night. But a combination of deflection and goalie's fingertips denied him. His frustration was immense. His movement hadn't been great, it rarely is, but the service to him was inexcusable. If the above chance set him back, that doesn't reflect well on him. At his age, with his experience, he knows full well that when your team is misfiring, struggling to get good service to you, there is only one requirement - keep doing the hard yards, keep making the moves, bother, badger and kick defenders, make a nuisance of yourself, keep getting in there cos eventually something drops - goes in off your shoulder or arse - LB complemented him at the weekend for doing the ugly stuff, the invisible stuff. Maybe last night he ran out of gas. If he ran out of desire, then he can go join Melt Maddison in the U23's. LB's options are severely limited. OB is the only experienced player of his type in the squad - if OB's relying on that to get him selected then he needs to think again. Josh Davison will be back from Woking quick as a flash. OB knows Chuks isn't up to (physically or mentally, who knows?) starting, let alone twice a week. But CA's inadequacy is no reason for OB to rest on his laurels. All of this surgical analysis needs to be taken in the context that this Charlton squad was hastily assembled and all the Sandgaard era recruitment was done under the salary cap. Very much a case of our champagne tastes and expectations being underwhelmed by our (flat) lemonade pockets. Charlton went shopping on the reduced counter at Asda at 5 to closing time - hardly reasonable to criticise the fare for not being Waitrose Finest, is it?
Bogle would be better with a strike partner (which striker wouldn't?) but the modern way seems to be to have someone notionally playing behind the striker. It rarely seems to work like that though.
Bogle seems to be playing to soften up the opposition and occupy the minutes that Aneke is seemingly unable to achieve. Maybe the longer term plan is to slowly build up the stamina of Aneke to an extent where Bogle is reduced to cameos from the bench? I get the impression the management is so concerned about the fragility of Aneke that they daren't ask him to play for more than 60 mins (which in turn means the max you get in the next game is 30 mins). You can see their point; anyone watching that Plymouth game would have seen Aneke look great for 20 mins and then disappear completely. At least last night, Aneke WAS in the game for the 60 minutes he was on. That was encouraging and he does look like he's got a lot of great attributes.
At the moment, Bogle is looking like a Marcus Bent, Leon Best or Ricardo Vaz Te type of signing. Get someone in who at least has a bit of physical presence and experience of playing up front and any goals are a bonus....
Bogle would be better with a strike partner (which striker wouldn't?) but the modern way seems to be to have someone notionally playing behind the striker. It rarely seems to work like that though.
Bogle seems to be playing to soften up the opposition and occupy the minutes that Aneke is seemingly unable to achieve. Maybe the longer term plan is to slowly build up the stamina of Aneke to an extent where Bogle is reduced to cameos from the bench? I get the impression the management is so concerned about the fragility of Aneke that they daren't ask him to play for more than 60 mins (which in turn means the max you get in the next game is 30 mins). You can see their point; anyone watching that Plymouth game would have seen Aneke look great for 20 mins and then disappear completely. At least last night, Aneke WAS in the game for the 60 minutes he was on. That was encouraging and he does look like he's got a lot of great attributes.
At the moment, Bogle is looking like a Marcus Bent, Leon Best or Ricardo Vaz Te type of signing. Get someone in who at least has a bit of physical presence and experience of playing up front and any goals are a bonus....
Or Akpo Sodje...
Akpo may not have scored many goals for us but he did have a couple of excellent games.
Bogle would be better with a strike partner (which striker wouldn't?) but the modern way seems to be to have someone notionally playing behind the striker. It rarely seems to work like that though.
Bogle seems to be playing to soften up the opposition and occupy the minutes that Aneke is seemingly unable to achieve. Maybe the longer term plan is to slowly build up the stamina of Aneke to an extent where Bogle is reduced to cameos from the bench? I get the impression the management is so concerned about the fragility of Aneke that they daren't ask him to play for more than 60 mins (which in turn means the max you get in the next game is 30 mins). You can see their point; anyone watching that Plymouth game would have seen Aneke look great for 20 mins and then disappear completely. At least last night, Aneke WAS in the game for the 60 minutes he was on. That was encouraging and he does look like he's got a lot of great attributes.
At the moment, Bogle is looking like a Marcus Bent, Leon Best or Ricardo Vaz Te type of signing. Get someone in who at least has a bit of physical presence and experience of playing up front and any goals are a bonus....
I think it's unbelievably harsh to compare him to Vaz Te. Bogle is trying, and Bowyer has been happy with his performances so far up to last night. He's not been terrible so far, he just hasn't been able to find that extra bit of quality in front of goal yet. Vaz Te wasn't bothered, didn't try for a second and perhaps worst of all took the number 2 shirt. Every minute Vaz Te spent on the pitch was an insult to us as fans with the little effort he put in
I think it was unfair to drag bogle off. Think people just getting on his back because we lost to bottom of league. Said to my lad just before kick off be typical Charlton to lose this match.
The problem for me was the passing across our own 18 yard box it was the same against gillingham we’ve spent half the game just passing it sideways backwards going nowhere. They done there homework pressed us high with 3 forwards and we paid the price.
If anyone should have been subbed in first half it was Gunter.
Unless bogle come in to our own penalty box to receive the ball I can’t see how you can blame him.
Personally I’m not sure about any off our strikers at moment chucks has scored the goals and is a target man but his flicks with his head go anywhere usually straight up in air. think his better running at people than bogle but bogle is better target Man.
I just hope bowyers learnt a good lesson not to pass ball across our own box for 20 minutes a game.
Need to mix it up otherwise you just become predictable we’ve got the players to do it we got bogle chucks as targets Washington and smith with speed to get behind and Williams and Maddison to run at people so why we just passing it round at back.
10 goals in last three years in total. Though Bogle and Aneke up top will at least bully a few centre back partnerships!
4 in 12 for Pompey at this level, last time he played at this level. Yeah probably shit isn't he.
Thanks for that comprehensive stat. Looking forward to seeing him regularly finding the back of the net though I do wonder why he only started half of those games for Pompey and never actually played 90 minutes for them? Equally, the previous time he played at this level, for Peterborough, he managed just one goal in 9 games. And he only started 4 of those too and again he never played 90 minutes for them either.
My spread would be 10-12 for the season which will be OK as long as we are getting goals elsewhere. The trouble is that we were spoilt with Grant and Taylor and we simply aren't fishing in the same pool now. Which is something we all just have to accept.
What I didn't like particularly about this signing is not Bogle. It's the fact that we had this big build up and that smacked a bit too much of what was going on with Mouthall and his marguee signings. Which is why I mentioned the 10 goals in the last three years. There's a reason why he's been available for three months and no one has snapped him up already.
But what the hell? We're playing football and have, at face value, a stable future which is infinitely better than where we were a few weeks ago
I think I'm definitely a seller of that spread now!
LB took him off tonight because he wasn't doing it. On Saturday after Washington missed his penalty, Bogle is clearly seen turning round with the ball in play and his back to it, as if to say "I told you so". LB came out in support of Bogle after the game but I suspect that he was probably seething in private. Taking him off tonight and before half time was a message to Bogle as to which of them is boss.
He was substituted because he was absolute shit.
If Bowyer 'was boss' why did Bogle even start?
As a Manager, you don't display your superiority with public humiliation of the type that you suggest. Most players don't react well to that. You sort it out behind the scenes.
So you think that being substituted in the first half isn't publicly humiliating and that Bogle will react well to that happening?
It is extremely rare for any Manager to do it no matter how badly someone is playing. In fact, when was the last time, if any, that LB has done so? When was the last time you saw any Manager do it? LB started him because he wants a physical presence up front and the only other (and mush better) alternative is, as LB is at pains to explain, incapable of playing 90 minutes.
I'm not arguing that Bogle wasn't poor. If you look I questioned whether the "fanfare" that preceded his arrival was justified. Little wonder he was so desperate to take that penalty on Saturday.
I'm saying that your interpretation was wrong.
Bowyer did not substitute Bogle early to show 'who is boss'. You don't do that. And, if you do, then most players do not react well.
OK now?
Not really. The effect will be exactly the same so if the defence is that "most players don't react well" I fail to see that LB has avoided doing just that. He could have waited 10 minutes to do it after all and made that change in the dressing room, as you say in private, without the need to haul him off in public.
LB re-affirmed his reasons for doing so. Again a public calling out of the player. There wasn't a "it wasn't working out for him so I felt an early change was needed". He actually said "It wasn't really tactical because I brought off like for like. There was nothing wrong with Omar, he just wasn't doing what he needs to do. He was miles off it and I won't have it."
And it was showing in the first 30 mins abject team performance as well - the ball wasn't sticking up front, causing moves to break down and pressure our defenders.
Bowyer had to do something. If Bogle was constantly out of position and couldn't hold up the ball, he had to bring on a player who could. If he'd delayed until half time, that may well have cost us further goals.
Bogle had his game instructions but wasn't doing his job. That's what Bowyer meant by "He was miles off it andI won't have it."
Haven't seen enough of Bogle to make a fair comment. Is he really that bad or simply an out of form journeyman striker who can improve? Can he do a job for us?
I like stats, so put a comparison together bogle vs taylor vs bonne
What have I learnt?
1. Bogle's record in the championship is poor..... likely brought in get us out of League One? 1 year contract suggests so
2. Ratio goals to games is better for all players that are established and play many games in an individual league, usually playing for 1 side (which makes sense as teams build around them). Bogle has not even played 1/2 seasons worth of games in League one, so we need to give him a chance to show us what he can do. Player with the best ratio for that league highlighted in yellow.
3. Bonne and Bogle have a near identical record at National league level. Is Bogle the new Bonne? The type of goals he scores (relatively spectacular and individual) suggests not.
4. Despite Taylors lack of goals this season, he still has the best ratio in the championship of the 3 players. 5. Taylor was pretty consistent in Champ, League One, League two (unfortunately < 3.0 games per goal) 6. Other than a short spell in League Two, Bonne has a pretty consistent record (around 3.0 games per goal) across all the leagues he has played in, which is why he may have been worth keeping hold of. 7. All players, when looking at total games to goals, are roughly equal. This is an inconsistent stat though as the games were played at varying level so I don't pay it a lot of attention. Bonne for example, played nearly half the games counted in the National League.
Overall, I am surprised by the limited number of games Bogle has played in total ( I excluded his stint in Holland but was only a handful anyway). He needs a run of games and to stay injury free and there is every chance we could have a goal scorer equivalent to at least Bonne, but his total number of games suggest he might succumb to the Charlton curse and be injured.
I'd suggest goals per minutes played is a better indicator than goals per match.
Surely minutes played is an indication of his quality .............. or not.
A sentiment analysis on this forum at the end of the season is surely the ultimate indication of his quality
He's not a goalscorer & never has been at this level. In non League he scored & one decent season in League two & that's it. I said b4 if TS was our owner a month earlier Bogle wouldn't be at the club.
Sadly he’s just a journeyman striker who we bought out of desperation. It’s alright saying he holds the ball up well but call me old fashioned, I like my strikers to score and he hasn’t looked close to scoring .
I really hope he proves me wrong but I doubt he will.
Yep. As I turned off my computer last night I thought, thanks wage cap.
10 goals in last three years in total. Though Bogle and Aneke up top will at least bully a few centre back partnerships!
4 in 12 for Pompey at this level, last time he played at this level. Yeah probably shit isn't he.
Thanks for that comprehensive stat. Looking forward to seeing him regularly finding the back of the net though I do wonder why he only started half of those games for Pompey and never actually played 90 minutes for them? Equally, the previous time he played at this level, for Peterborough, he managed just one goal in 9 games. And he only started 4 of those too and again he never played 90 minutes for them either.
My spread would be 10-12 for the season which will be OK as long as we are getting goals elsewhere. The trouble is that we were spoilt with Grant and Taylor and we simply aren't fishing in the same pool now. Which is something we all just have to accept.
What I didn't like particularly about this signing is not Bogle. It's the fact that we had this big build up and that smacked a bit too much of what was going on with Mouthall and his marguee signings. Which is why I mentioned the 10 goals in the last three years. There's a reason why he's been available for three months and no one has snapped him up already.
But what the hell? We're playing football and have, at face value, a stable future which is infinitely better than where we were a few weeks ago
I think I'm definitely a seller of that spread now!
LB took him off tonight because he wasn't doing it. On Saturday after Washington missed his penalty, Bogle is clearly seen turning round with the ball in play and his back to it, as if to say "I told you so". LB came out in support of Bogle after the game but I suspect that he was probably seething in private. Taking him off tonight and before half time was a message to Bogle as to which of them is boss.
He was substituted because he was absolute shit.
If Bowyer 'was boss' why did Bogle even start?
As a Manager, you don't display your superiority with public humiliation of the type that you suggest. Most players don't react well to that. You sort it out behind the scenes.
So you think that being substituted in the first half isn't publicly humiliating and that Bogle will react well to that happening?
It is extremely rare for any Manager to do it no matter how badly someone is playing. In fact, when was the last time, if any, that LB has done so? When was the last time you saw any Manager do it? LB started him because he wants a physical presence up front and the only other (and mush better) alternative is, as LB is at pains to explain, incapable of playing 90 minutes.
I'm not arguing that Bogle wasn't poor. If you look I questioned whether the "fanfare" that preceded his arrival was justified. Little wonder he was so desperate to take that penalty on Saturday.
I'm saying that your interpretation was wrong.
Bowyer did not substitute Bogle early to show 'who is boss'. You don't do that. And, if you do, then most players do not react well.
OK now?
Not really. The effect will be exactly the same so if the defence is that "most players don't react well" I fail to see that LB has avoided doing just that. He could have waited 10 minutes to do it after all and made that change in the dressing room, as you say in private, without the need to haul him off in public.
LB re-affirmed his reasons for doing so. Again a public calling out of the player. There wasn't a "it wasn't working out for him so I felt an early change was needed". He actually said "It wasn't really tactical because I brought off like for like. There was nothing wrong with Omar, he just wasn't doing what he needs to do. He was miles off it and I won't have it."
And it was showing in the first 30 mins abject team performance as well - the ball wasn't sticking up front, causing moves to break down and pressure our defenders.
Bowyer had to do something. If Bogle was constantly out of position and couldn't hold up the ball, he had to bring on a player who could. If he'd delayed until half time, that may well have cost us further goals.
Bogle had his game instructions but wasn't doing his job. That's what Bowyer meant by "He was miles off it andI won't have it."
The irony being that 5 minutes after taking him off we did concede another before half time .
10 goals in last three years in total. Though Bogle and Aneke up top will at least bully a few centre back partnerships!
4 in 12 for Pompey at this level, last time he played at this level. Yeah probably shit isn't he.
Thanks for that comprehensive stat. Looking forward to seeing him regularly finding the back of the net though I do wonder why he only started half of those games for Pompey and never actually played 90 minutes for them? Equally, the previous time he played at this level, for Peterborough, he managed just one goal in 9 games. And he only started 4 of those too and again he never played 90 minutes for them either.
My spread would be 10-12 for the season which will be OK as long as we are getting goals elsewhere. The trouble is that we were spoilt with Grant and Taylor and we simply aren't fishing in the same pool now. Which is something we all just have to accept.
What I didn't like particularly about this signing is not Bogle. It's the fact that we had this big build up and that smacked a bit too much of what was going on with Mouthall and his marguee signings. Which is why I mentioned the 10 goals in the last three years. There's a reason why he's been available for three months and no one has snapped him up already.
But what the hell? We're playing football and have, at face value, a stable future which is infinitely better than where we were a few weeks ago
I think I'm definitely a seller of that spread now!
LB took him off tonight because he wasn't doing it. On Saturday after Washington missed his penalty, Bogle is clearly seen turning round with the ball in play and his back to it, as if to say "I told you so". LB came out in support of Bogle after the game but I suspect that he was probably seething in private. Taking him off tonight and before half time was a message to Bogle as to which of them is boss.
He was substituted because he was absolute shit.
If Bowyer 'was boss' why did Bogle even start?
As a Manager, you don't display your superiority with public humiliation of the type that you suggest. Most players don't react well to that. You sort it out behind the scenes.
So you think that being substituted in the first half isn't publicly humiliating and that Bogle will react well to that happening?
It is extremely rare for any Manager to do it no matter how badly someone is playing. In fact, when was the last time, if any, that LB has done so? When was the last time you saw any Manager do it? LB started him because he wants a physical presence up front and the only other (and mush better) alternative is, as LB is at pains to explain, incapable of playing 90 minutes.
I'm not arguing that Bogle wasn't poor. If you look I questioned whether the "fanfare" that preceded his arrival was justified. Little wonder he was so desperate to take that penalty on Saturday.
I'm saying that your interpretation was wrong.
Bowyer did not substitute Bogle early to show 'who is boss'. You don't do that. And, if you do, then most players do not react well.
OK now?
Not really. The effect will be exactly the same so if the defence is that "most players don't react well" I fail to see that LB has avoided doing just that. He could have waited 10 minutes to do it after all and made that change in the dressing room, as you say in private, without the need to haul him off in public.
LB re-affirmed his reasons for doing so. Again a public calling out of the player. There wasn't a "it wasn't working out for him so I felt an early change was needed". He actually said "It wasn't really tactical because I brought off like for like. There was nothing wrong with Omar, he just wasn't doing what he needs to do. He was miles off it and I won't have it."
And it was showing in the first 30 mins abject team performance as well - the ball wasn't sticking up front, causing moves to break down and pressure our defenders.
Bowyer had to do something. If Bogle was constantly out of position and couldn't hold up the ball, he had to bring on a player who could. If he'd delayed until half time, that may well have cost us further goals.
Bogle had his game instructions but wasn't doing his job. That's what Bowyer meant by "He was miles off it andI won't have it."
The irony being that 5 minutes after taking him off we did concede another before half time .
Yeah, the irony - you could've written the script yourself.
Bogle is not that bad. Totally out of order for him to be scapegoated for last night. Bowyer did a bit of that himself IMO. Mind you, when I say he isn't that bad, he is an average League One player. Chuks is a Championship player. Washington and Chuks are our best two strikers.
Bogle is a bit of a lump and maybe in certain games he might work well with Chuks. It amazes me why Bowyer isn't even curious about that. He seems very inflexible in his philosophies to me. Anyway, Bogle is struggling a bit as his lack of goals is getting to him. Needs to be on the bench and when he gets a goal - maybe a late winner, it will get him back on track.
If you are lobbing the ball up, Aneke is the only player we have that will work with.
Bogle is not that bad. Totally out of order for him to be scapegoated for last night. Bowyer did a bit of that himself IMO. Mind you, when I say he isn't that bad, he is an average League One player. Chuks is a Championship player. Washington and Chuks are our best two strikers.
Bogle is a bit of a lump and maybe in certain games he might work well with Chuks. It amazes me why Bowyer isn't even curious about that. He seems very inflexible in his philosophies to me. Anyway, Bogle is struggling a bit as his lack of goals is getting to him. Needs to be on the bench and when he gets a goal - maybe a late winner, it will get him back on track.
I don't think Bogle was scapegoated really, Mutts ........ just that it's obvious from Bowyer's reaction that Bogle wasn't following his gameplan instructions. And so he was replaced by a player who would.
I wish our defence had stopped following his instructions. If I was Amos I would have stopped giving it short given it was putting us under pressure, but he probably thought he would get blamed if he applied his own judgement to the situation.
At least Bogle was visible. You wouldn't have known Gilbey was on the pitch if you hadn't seen the line up.
I wish our defence had stopped following his instructions. If I was Amos I would have stopped giving it short given it was putting us under pressure, but he probably thought he would get blamed if he applied his own judgement to the situation.
At least Bogle was visible. You wouldn't have known Gilbey was on the pitch if you hadn't seen the line up.
Hauling a player off in the first half and replacing with a like for like replacement is pretty brutal, and I'm not sure Bogle's performance was bad enough to deserve that humiliation.
I wish our defence had stopped following his instructions. If I was Amos I would have stopped giving it short given it was putting us under pressure, but he probably thought he would get blamed if he applied his own judgement to the situation.
At least Bogle was visible. You wouldn't have known Gilbey was on the pitch if you hadn't seen the line up.
It's pretty obvious to you, me and just about everybody else that if a player has been out injured for 10 weeks, he's got a fair bit of fitness to catch up on.
We were all surprised to see Gilbey named as sub and come on for half an hour against the Jills. Unsurprisingly, he looked rusty and slow. To start him at Burton with that level of match fitness was a big ask of him - and IMO unrealistic but then Bow is the Pro, not me.
Bowyer, I would imagine, thought that to start Gilbey against an out of form side missing several key players was the ideal opportunity to get some vital "minutes into him". In that respect he's seemed to underestimate the opposition.
I wish our defence had stopped following his instructions. If I was Amos I would have stopped giving it short given it was putting us under pressure, but he probably thought he would get blamed if he applied his own judgement to the situation.
At least Bogle was visible. You wouldn't have known Gilbey was on the pitch if you hadn't seen the line up.
Hauling a player off in the first half and replacing with a like for like replacement is pretty brutal, and I'm not sure Bogle's performance was bad enough to deserve that humiliation.
Maybe not. But the team performance was abject, the ball wouldn't stick up front - and no doubt Bowyer felt at the time, something had to change before we conceded again.
Just said on the post match thread that one way out for us would be to pay up his contract & let him leave. We signed him when we were under a transfer embargo & he was all we could sign. Now we can do better & he is currently taking up "space" in the squad. The wage cap had fucked things up in this regard & in past years you could probably keep him on hoping that he will come good, or loan him out. Now we can't & its pretty much one in & one out when it comes to finding a replacement striker.
Bows pretty much threw him under the bus last night. Time to end this sorry saga & bring in somebody who can add something to the team.
We’re we under an embargo when we signed him? I thought that the only ones were Gilbery and Washington? I can’t remember what I had for breakfast, let alone when we signed a player
I wish our defence had stopped following his instructions. If I was Amos I would have stopped giving it short given it was putting us under pressure, but he probably thought he would get blamed if he applied his own judgement to the situation.
At least Bogle was visible. You wouldn't have known Gilbey was on the pitch if you hadn't seen the line up.
Hauling a player off in the first half and replacing with a like for like replacement is pretty brutal, and I'm not sure Bogle's performance was bad enough to deserve that humiliation.
It also begs the question why Gunter wasn't the one taken off at that time.
He gave the penalty away against Plymouth, gave the goal away that put us behind yesterday and had been booked before Bogle was subbed and with an hour still to play so we ran the risk of him being sent off. What is the point of having two centre backs on the bench if there is no intention of using them to replace a player struggling in that role? Those subs are either fit or not fit. And they would only be having to play 60 minutes too,
LB could, actually, have afforded to take both of them off at the same time and that would not have then had the effect of singling out Bogle. And we would have been no worse off than a normal game given that we still had three subs available.
Just said on the post match thread that one way out for us would be to pay up his contract & let him leave. We signed him when we were under a transfer embargo & he was all we could sign. Now we can do better & he is currently taking up "space" in the squad. The wage cap had fucked things up in this regard & in past years you could probably keep him on hoping that he will come good, or loan him out. Now we can't & its pretty much one in & one out when it comes to finding a replacement striker.
Bows pretty much threw him under the bus last night. Time to end this sorry saga & bring in somebody who can add something to the team.
We’re we under an embargo when we signed him? I thought that the only ones were Gilbery and Washington? I can’t remember what I had for breakfast, let alone when we signed a player
Levitt, was also an 'embargo' signing. But not Bogle. He came afterwards.
Watson & Famewo were the first of the 11 new players through the door after the embargo lifted.
I don’t think Bogle is good enough and I hope we replace him in January. Having said that, we didn’t have many options and I can see what LB and SG were thinking - he had scored goals in the past, wasn’t too old and seems to have kept himself in decent shape. He’s just a lower league striker and not a good one imo. Someone said on here we’d spoken to Gestede but he wanted too much so Bogle was probably a back up. The social media team bigging him up got everyone’s expectations up too which didn’t help.
10 goals in last three years in total. Though Bogle and Aneke up top will at least bully a few centre back partnerships!
4 in 12 for Pompey at this level, last time he played at this level. Yeah probably shit isn't he.
Thanks for that comprehensive stat. Looking forward to seeing him regularly finding the back of the net though I do wonder why he only started half of those games for Pompey and never actually played 90 minutes for them? Equally, the previous time he played at this level, for Peterborough, he managed just one goal in 9 games. And he only started 4 of those too and again he never played 90 minutes for them either.
My spread would be 10-12 for the season which will be OK as long as we are getting goals elsewhere. The trouble is that we were spoilt with Grant and Taylor and we simply aren't fishing in the same pool now. Which is something we all just have to accept.
What I didn't like particularly about this signing is not Bogle. It's the fact that we had this big build up and that smacked a bit too much of what was going on with Mouthall and his marguee signings. Which is why I mentioned the 10 goals in the last three years. There's a reason why he's been available for three months and no one has snapped him up already.
But what the hell? We're playing football and have, at face value, a stable future which is infinitely better than where we were a few weeks ago
I think I'm definitely a seller of that spread now!
LB took him off tonight because he wasn't doing it. On Saturday after Washington missed his penalty, Bogle is clearly seen turning round with the ball in play and his back to it, as if to say "I told you so". LB came out in support of Bogle after the game but I suspect that he was probably seething in private. Taking him off tonight and before half time was a message to Bogle as to which of them is boss.
He was substituted because he was absolute shit.
If Bowyer 'was boss' why did Bogle even start?
As a Manager, you don't display your superiority with public humiliation of the type that you suggest. Most players don't react well to that. You sort it out behind the scenes.
So you think that being substituted in the first half isn't publicly humiliating and that Bogle will react well to that happening?
It is extremely rare for any Manager to do it no matter how badly someone is playing. In fact, when was the last time, if any, that LB has done so? When was the last time you saw any Manager do it? LB started him because he wants a physical presence up front and the only other (and mush better) alternative is, as LB is at pains to explain, incapable of playing 90 minutes.
I'm not arguing that Bogle wasn't poor. If you look I questioned whether the "fanfare" that preceded his arrival was justified. Little wonder he was so desperate to take that penalty on Saturday.
I'm saying that your interpretation was wrong.
Bowyer did not substitute Bogle early to show 'who is boss'. You don't do that. And, if you do, then most players do not react well.
OK now?
Not really. The effect will be exactly the same so if the defence is that "most players don't react well" I fail to see that LB has avoided doing just that. He could have waited 10 minutes to do it after all and made that change in the dressing room, as you say in private, without the need to haul him off in public.
LB re-affirmed his reasons for doing so. Again a public calling out of the player. There wasn't a "it wasn't working out for him so I felt an early change was needed". He actually said "It wasn't really tactical because I brought off like for like. There was nothing wrong with Omar, he just wasn't doing what he needs to do. He was miles off it and I won't have it."
And it was showing in the first 30 mins abject team performance as well - the ball wasn't sticking up front, causing moves to break down and pressure our defenders.
Bowyer had to do something. If Bogle was constantly out of position and couldn't hold up the ball, he had to bring on a player who could. If he'd delayed until half time, that may well have cost us further goals.
Bogle had his game instructions but wasn't doing his job. That's what Bowyer meant by "He was miles off it andI won't have it."
Bowyer has his favourites and like Morgan Bogle isn't one of them. If you are going to follow through with the "he wasn't on it blah blah blah...." then Gunter & Pratley should have been dragged off & replaced with Pearce and Oshileja. But, as we saw when Morgan was replaced at half time last season for not tracking back and then not doing the same with a different player the next game, Bows doesn't treat his players equally.
10 goals in last three years in total. Though Bogle and Aneke up top will at least bully a few centre back partnerships!
4 in 12 for Pompey at this level, last time he played at this level. Yeah probably shit isn't he.
Thanks for that comprehensive stat. Looking forward to seeing him regularly finding the back of the net though I do wonder why he only started half of those games for Pompey and never actually played 90 minutes for them? Equally, the previous time he played at this level, for Peterborough, he managed just one goal in 9 games. And he only started 4 of those too and again he never played 90 minutes for them either.
My spread would be 10-12 for the season which will be OK as long as we are getting goals elsewhere. The trouble is that we were spoilt with Grant and Taylor and we simply aren't fishing in the same pool now. Which is something we all just have to accept.
What I didn't like particularly about this signing is not Bogle. It's the fact that we had this big build up and that smacked a bit too much of what was going on with Mouthall and his marguee signings. Which is why I mentioned the 10 goals in the last three years. There's a reason why he's been available for three months and no one has snapped him up already.
But what the hell? We're playing football and have, at face value, a stable future which is infinitely better than where we were a few weeks ago
I think I'm definitely a seller of that spread now!
LB took him off tonight because he wasn't doing it. On Saturday after Washington missed his penalty, Bogle is clearly seen turning round with the ball in play and his back to it, as if to say "I told you so". LB came out in support of Bogle after the game but I suspect that he was probably seething in private. Taking him off tonight and before half time was a message to Bogle as to which of them is boss.
He was substituted because he was absolute shit.
If Bowyer 'was boss' why did Bogle even start?
As a Manager, you don't display your superiority with public humiliation of the type that you suggest. Most players don't react well to that. You sort it out behind the scenes.
So you think that being substituted in the first half isn't publicly humiliating and that Bogle will react well to that happening?
It is extremely rare for any Manager to do it no matter how badly someone is playing. In fact, when was the last time, if any, that LB has done so? When was the last time you saw any Manager do it? LB started him because he wants a physical presence up front and the only other (and mush better) alternative is, as LB is at pains to explain, incapable of playing 90 minutes.
I'm not arguing that Bogle wasn't poor. If you look I questioned whether the "fanfare" that preceded his arrival was justified. Little wonder he was so desperate to take that penalty on Saturday.
I'm saying that your interpretation was wrong.
Bowyer did not substitute Bogle early to show 'who is boss'. You don't do that. And, if you do, then most players do not react well.
OK now?
Not really. The effect will be exactly the same so if the defence is that "most players don't react well" I fail to see that LB has avoided doing just that. He could have waited 10 minutes to do it after all and made that change in the dressing room, as you say in private, without the need to haul him off in public.
LB re-affirmed his reasons for doing so. Again a public calling out of the player. There wasn't a "it wasn't working out for him so I felt an early change was needed". He actually said "It wasn't really tactical because I brought off like for like. There was nothing wrong with Omar, he just wasn't doing what he needs to do. He was miles off it and I won't have it."
And it was showing in the first 30 mins abject team performance as well - the ball wasn't sticking up front, causing moves to break down and pressure our defenders.
Bowyer had to do something. If Bogle was constantly out of position and couldn't hold up the ball, he had to bring on a player who could. If he'd delayed until half time, that may well have cost us further goals.
Bogle had his game instructions but wasn't doing his job. That's what Bowyer meant by "He was miles off it andI won't have it."
Bowyer has his favourites and like Morgan Bogle isn't one of them. If you are going to follow through with the "he wasn't on it blah blah blah...." then Gunter & Pratley should have been dragged off & replaced with Pearce and Oshileja. But, as we saw when Morgan was replaced at half time last season for not tracking back and then not doing the same with a different player the next game, Bows doesn't treat his players equally.
He was never going to drag off Gunther and Prats, having said Pearce/Oshi are not fit enough/ready to play. In that case, it begs the question though, if neither are not ready to play why have them both on the bench?
One of them, could have been getting a desperately needed 90 mins in Monday's U23 game. The other could have been cover, with Barker perhaps called up and on the bench also.
I don't know about 'favourites' ..... but it's no secret that Bowyer gets exasperated with certain players who don't follow instructions.
I don’t think Bogle is good enough and I hope we replace him in January. Having said that, we didn’t have many options and I can see what LB and SG were thinking - he had scored goals in the past, wasn’t too old and seems to have kept himself in decent shape. He’s just a lower league striker and not a good one imo. Someone said on here we’d spoken to Gestede but he wanted too much so Bogle was probably a back up. The social media team bigging him up got everyone’s expectations up too which didn’t help.
Can't say I've seen a lot of him but is he really that bad? He's only played a handful of games and was signed I assume as a squad player.
Mistakes are forgivable because nobody means to make them. But not following instructions is a reason to be hauled off. I’ve read some of Bogles tweets (if they are his) and backed up by his performances it seems that LB had a job on his hands. Do what you’re told for the benefit of the team.
Mistakes are forgivable because nobody means to make them. But not following instructions is a reason to be hauled off. I’ve read some of Bogles tweets (if they are his) and backed up by his performances it seems that LB had a job on his hands. Do what you’re told for the benefit of the team.
Mistakes are forgivable because nobody means to make them. But not following instructions is a reason to be hauled off. I’ve read some of Bogles tweets (if they are his) and backed up by his performances it seems that LB had a job on his hands. Do what you’re told for the benefit of the team.
Will he start on Saturday?
Who knows. Personally rather get 60 minutes of quality from Chuks and then defend what we have. We simply cannot go behind in the game.
Comments
Maybe last night he ran out of gas. If he ran out of desire, then he can go join Melt Maddison in the U23's.
LB's options are severely limited. OB is the only experienced player of his type in the squad - if OB's relying on that to get him selected then he needs to think again. Josh Davison will be back from Woking quick as a flash.
OB knows Chuks isn't up to (physically or mentally, who knows?) starting, let alone twice a week. But CA's inadequacy is no reason for OB to rest on his laurels.
All of this surgical analysis needs to be taken in the context that this Charlton squad was hastily assembled and all the Sandgaard era recruitment was done under the salary cap. Very much a case of our champagne tastes and expectations being underwhelmed by our (flat) lemonade pockets.
Charlton went shopping on the reduced counter at Asda at 5 to closing time - hardly reasonable to criticise the fare for not being Waitrose Finest, is it?
Did they ever find him after the fraud?
I will follow you until you love me, Akpo Akpo Sodje.
think his better running at people than bogle but bogle is better target Man.
Bowyer had to do something. If Bogle was constantly out of position and couldn't hold up the ball, he had to bring on a player who could.
If he'd delayed until half time, that may well have cost us further goals.
Bogle had his game instructions but wasn't doing his job. That's what Bowyer meant by "He was miles off it and I won't have it."
The irony being that 5 minutes after taking him off we did concede another before half time
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Bogle is a bit of a lump and maybe in certain games he might work well with Chuks. It amazes me why Bowyer isn't even curious about that. He seems very inflexible in his philosophies to me. Anyway, Bogle is struggling a bit as his lack of goals is getting to him. Needs to be on the bench and when he gets a goal - maybe a late winner, it will get him back on track.
If you are lobbing the ball up, Aneke is the only player we have that will work with.
At least Bogle was visible. You wouldn't have known Gilbey was on the pitch if you hadn't seen the line up.
We were all surprised to see Gilbey named as sub and come on for half an hour against the Jills. Unsurprisingly, he looked rusty and slow.
To start him at Burton with that level of match fitness was a big ask of him - and IMO unrealistic but then Bow is the Pro, not me.
Bowyer, I would imagine, thought that to start Gilbey against an out of form side missing several key players was the ideal opportunity to get some vital "minutes into him". In that respect he's seemed to underestimate the opposition.
It also begs the question why Gunter wasn't the one taken off at that time.
He gave the penalty away against Plymouth, gave the goal away that put us behind yesterday and had been booked before Bogle was subbed and with an hour still to play so we ran the risk of him being sent off. What is the point of having two centre backs on the bench if there is no intention of using them to replace a player struggling in that role? Those subs are either fit or not fit. And they would only be having to play 60 minutes too,
LB could, actually, have afforded to take both of them off at the same time and that would not have then had the effect of singling out Bogle. And we would have been no worse off than a normal game given that we still had three subs available.
Watson & Famewo were the first of the 11 new players through the door after the embargo lifted.
Someone said on here we’d spoken to Gestede but he wanted too much so Bogle was probably a back up. The social media team bigging him up got everyone’s expectations up too which didn’t help.
In that case, it begs the question though, if neither are not ready to play why have them both on the bench?
One of them, could have been getting a desperately needed 90 mins in Monday's U23 game.
The other could have been cover, with Barker perhaps called up and on the bench also.
I don't know about 'favourites' ..... but it's no secret that Bowyer gets exasperated with certain players who don't follow instructions.