Watching a replay of the first two goals you have to wonder why both Gunter and Amos were so switched off? Even after Gunter's mistake Amos should have saved the first and then he decides to give away another goal.
Don't pass it around at the back if your players make such basic mistakes.
Despite Gunter’s mistake Amos should have prevented the first goal. But he’s good at taking catches so it’s not really an issue ......
Watching a replay of the first two goals you have to wonder why both Gunter and Amos were so switched off? Even after Gunter's mistake Amos should have saved the first and then he decides to give away another goal.
Don't pass it around at the back if your players make such basic mistakes.
Amos did save the first one on one but unfortunately the ball ran loose and the Burton forward, who had the advantage of being on his feet whereas Amos had dived, got there before Pratley could cover.
I haven't watched the game, nor have I read all the comments, three or four pages were enough.
Gunter has been criticised but two matches ago he was being praised, having slotted seamlessly into the CB position. Pratley is obviously fit but should a 35 year-old play more minutes than any other outfield player? Maatsen has been excellent, maybe needed a rest.
I midfield, I was very surprised to see Gilbey starting. He looked very rusty on Saturday and surely needed another game or two on the bench. Same with Maddison; is he up to speed with the rest of the team.
Up front I like what I've seen of Bogle but he's not being used to his strenths; holding up the ball to bring others into play. It sounds as though, like Saturday, there's thos obsession of building slowly from the back. It needs mixing, surely. Sometimes it's worth getting the ball upfisld quickly and with Bogle and Chuks we have players that can take advantage of this. Maybee it'll change as Pearce and Innis aren't subtle ball players!
But I've seen this sort of result plenty of times in my many years as a Charlton fan. It was Golfie in the preview, I think, who said we're on an eight match unbeaten run, Burton are bottom of the table with three consecutive defeats. Only one possible result.....and he got it spot on!
Egg on the faces for all the young know alls on this forum tonight. Grossly over milking certain players, reading results off of league positions, not realising that without Famewo/Inniss we are really nothing special in this league etc etc.
Lack of goal threat, trying to shoehorn unfit players like Maddison and Gilbey into the side, not starting centre halves and putting them on the bench. 442 was a crap selection with that midfield. A good manager would have changed it after 15 minutes.
Keep the LOL's coming as per Saturday but I say it again, there is no room for an individual player like Maddison in this TEAM. Walking down the tunnel when subbed just sums this prima donna up. A player that divides the dressing room. Scandalous performance/behaviour from him tonight.
You sound shocked that the most in form team in the league were predicted to beat the most out of form team in the league. You fancy Fulham to do Man City at the weekend?
We didn’t start centre halves because there were none available to start, as Bowyer said, unless you know something he doesn’t?
Ive never seen a “good manager” make a sub after 15 minutes, or just a “manager” for that matter.
Maddison was shite, but divides the dressing room? Again, you must know something Bowyer doesn’t.
One thing i don't understand is that Pearce played 45 minutes 2 weeks ago. How can he not be fit to start a game by now? He absolutely needs to start at Ipswich.
Ultimately i'm not going to over react too much. Yes it's been 2 poor games, and if we don't get something at Ipswich then we will have well and truly lost momentum but.........we do have injuries (surprise surprise), it's still a fairly new team, it's a first defeat in 9 games and we're still in the play offs.
A win at Ipswich and we could go third so it's really not time to panic just yet.
Passing out has worked well this season apart from the last two games , when Pratley wasn’t in midfield making angles. The back four need options on the ball and although it’s difficult to see exactly why they didn’t have enough, it did seem early second half that Maddison didn’t seem to fancy taking the ball off them.
Maatsen has been one of our best players but he needs a rest now and Purrington needs to come in.
i agree, it is odd that Pearce is still not playing after a half last week.
Piss poor from start to finish. 1 point against Gillingham and Burton is unacceptable. However it it doesn’t do any harm to be brought down a peg or 2 sometimes. Only real shining light was the goal from Aneke.
Maddison and Gilbey are nowhere near fit enough to be playing.
Too many players either went missing or had shockers.
We’ve gone from invincible to looking like we can’t win for toffee ...
there really were people saying we won’t lose more than a couple more this season !
I predicted a play off loss this season and see no reason to change although even I was thinking we’d be knocking on top 2’s door but I still don’t think we’ve ever got going yet and what with injuries and whatever not sure we ever will be able to .
I’m most disappointed that the “we should be grateful we’ve got a club to support” rhetoric hasn’t come out
Piss poor from start to finish. 1 point against Gillingham and Burton is unacceptable. However it it doesn’t do any harm to be brought down a peg or 2 sometimes. Only real shining light was the goal from Aneke.
Maddison and Gilbey are nowhere near fit enough to be playing.
Too many players either went missing or had shockers.
Hopefully just one of those nights, like Bowyer said comparable to the 5-3 debacle at Scunthorpe 2 years ago
Egg on the faces for all the young know alls on this forum tonight. Grossly over milking certain players, reading results off of league positions, not realising that without Famewo/Inniss we are really nothing special in this league etc etc.
Lack of goal threat, trying to shoehorn unfit players like Maddison and Gilbey into the side, not starting centre halves and putting them on the bench. 442 was a crap selection with that midfield. A good manager would have changed it after 15 minutes.
Keep the LOL's coming as per Saturday but I say it again, there is no room for an individual player like Maddison in this TEAM. Walking down the tunnel when subbed just sums this prima donna up. A player that divides the dressing room. Scandalous performance/behaviour from him tonight.
I’m pretty sure bollox is referring to the over enthusiastic, everything is always wonderful , you can’t ever say a bad word against Charlton crew ... He’s a poster who adds caution and doesn’t get carried away like the naive amongst us, plenty lol his words of caution but he was one of the first to call out our shitness last year and he’s added words of caution for this season . Even i gotten carried away to a point but he is right , we’ve got results without ,to me, ever looking like we’ve got going which is great but we have to at some point get going , these players who aren’t fit need to get fit . We can blame the refs , injuries and whatever else but excuses don’t win matches , we’ve won our games without really being convincing , we are light years away from the well oiled machine that was SCP’s all conquering Champions . Let’s hope it’s just a blip and I’m sure it is but if someone offered me a play off spot right now , I’d take it no hesitation .
I actually am finding myself starting to agree with a number of your comments. That's a sad day
I do think Aneke and Washington can reach 30 between them. Bogle may get 5, but I'm not sure how many will be clear cut shots. Smyth I'd expect 5 as well. A whole 40 goals... woo.
Which is one more than Taylor, Grant, Parker, Ajose and Igor got.......
You can’t give anyone a two goal lead and that’s exactly what we did, we gifted it to them. Why oh why do we keep tippy tapping around on the edge of our own box? It cost us on a number of occasions last season too. If you want to pass it back and forth do it in their half.
Very poor performance. Couldn’t string more than a couple of passes together and we looked vulnerable every time they came forward. Thought Maddison and Shinnie were awful as were the back five excluding Matthews. Watson still has not impressed although he has improved.
Big game Saturday after they got thumped by Hull at home.
On reflection this morning, I think Bowyer is to blame for last night as he thought there was no way we could lose to Burton, no matter what he did with the team.
Much of his decision making about the starting 11 makes sense when you think about it.
He wanted to have a settled back 4 so keeps Matthews Gunter Pratley and Maatsen. He wanted to give Gilbey and Maddison “minutes” so started them both. Shinnie and Watson have played well in a number of recent games, so kept them in. Bogle he talked up after the Gills game so he had to start him. Smyth did well when he came on against the Gills, so he started him.
He thought we could get away with resting Washington (tired after 3 internationals) and Morgan (needed to make room for Gilbey and Maddison). Pearce and Deji are not fit enough to start. Chuks can never start due to needing the opposition defenders to be less fresh when he does arrive.
I think Bows thought we could get away with all of the above because we would be so much better than Burton who have clearly been poor for the past 14 games.
The playing out from the back and keeping possession is obviously how Bows wants to play. But we seem to have no tactics for corners and free kicks (there was a free kick last night in the Burton half we could have launched into their box but Watson took it quick and short, and it ended up back with Amos). We don’t vary things enough. We don’t have Naby in the back four who can play an educated ball forward.
Some on here are saying Pearce and Deji should have played but can you imagine the pelters everyone would have got had they both played and we’d given away those two goals?
We are still suffering the consequences of the Roland and ESI years - relying too heavily on youth (for those saying that Barker should be playing, he’s 17 and was only drafted in earlier this season when we didn’t have enough players), too heavily on players who are made of glass (Williams, Aneke, Innis), and too heavily on journeymen at the end of their careers (McGeady, Watson, Pratley).
In some ways, what happened last night and on Saturday at the Gills was previewed by the Fleetwood game when we threw away a two goal lead and were lucky to get the three points. While we do have more bodies in the building now, we still don’t really have real strength in depth of the quality that we need.
We don’t have the likes of Taylor, Bauer, Aribo, Bielik, Cullen and Gallagher.
And whatever Bows says, we lose an awful lot of players to injuries in training.
The January window will be an interesting statement of intent for the rest of the season but hopefully we can see what sort of players a normal club can get.
Watching a replay of the first two goals you have to wonder why both Gunter and Amos were so switched off? Even after Gunter's mistake Amos should have saved the first and then he decides to give away another goal.
Don't pass it around at the back if your players make such basic mistakes.
Amos did save the first one on one but unfortunately the ball ran loose and the Burton forward, who had the advantage of being on his feet whereas Amos had dived, got there before Pratley could cover.
I thought he could have done better with the first to get the ball to safety - there have been a few occasions when making a save this season that he hasn't got the ball away from the goal. Even the parry before their third goal doesn't look convincing.
It's pretty evident from last night that if you close us down we will make mistakes. Hopefully concentration levels will be better by Saturday.
Like others on here I'm not sure how strong this squad is.
On passing out from the back we’re at our best under Bowyer when we mix it up more and move the ball quickly, I don’t know why we’re tapping it slowly around the back four like a Robinson or Peeters side did. It was much better in the second half which resulted in us finding more space and creating a lot more chances.
As well as moving the ball quicker we miss Doughty’s pace - having that option means we can look for a quick ball into space for him and not just a direct ball up to Aneke or Bogle. Smyth is the closest to that but Washington perhaps offers better movement and is a bit more physical to handle CBs.
I said before the game it’s potentially our best midfield, I meant that in a diamond. In a flat four the balance isn’t right, there’s no real pace and they’re all too similar. I also said before the it might turn out that would be the case, it was very similar to the example I gave of 11/12 when Green Stephens Hollands Jackson was good on paper but had the same issue of no pace, lacking energy/movement and too many similar players.
I’m not going to overreact, it’s a 46 game season and results like this sometimes happen. The Scunthorpe 5-3 or Notts County 4-2 in 18/19 and 11/12 respectively didn’t stop us getting promoted. The important thing is we react in the right way. Morgan and Aneke deserve and need to start on Saturday. Bogle and Maddison can earn their chance from the bench as those two did.
Last nights game was a blip, completely agree with Bowyers press conference after the game... We have had an amazing start under a team who are still gelling together as a unit. This is a wake up call to the lads and I'm sure they will go to Ipswich and do us proud. As well we haven't got a proper CB at the minute. If we lose one game in every 9 games then I will be well chuffed with that.
Found Maatsen's performance baffling, what's happened to him in the past 2? Genuinely think I could've done better than him out there tonight ffs. Onto the next one, think Saturdays game is a perfect opportunity for us.
I think Matsaan is suffering because he does not have the security of Innis and Famewo.With those two he could be a bit more adventurous knowing he was covered if he got caught out.I think there is a case for Purrington and Pratley at centre backs,Pratley is right footed but many times was on the left and just had no option other than to play Matsaan in when a crossfield long pass would have been better.
Last nights game was a blip, completely agree with Bowyers press conference after the game... We have had an amazing start under a team who are still gelling together as a unit. This is a wake up call to the lads and I'm sure they will go to Ipswich and do us proud. As well we haven't got a proper CB at the minute. If we lose one game in every 9 games then I will be well chuffed with that.
If we play like we did last night we will struggle. The first two goals were given away and there's no point using injuries as an excuse.
I'm unclear why Pearce didn't start - Lee starts other players who are not 100% match fit.
If Ipswich watch last night's game they'll know what to target. Hopefully mistakes won't be repeated.
Last nights game was a blip, completely agree with Bowyers press conference after the game... We have had an amazing start under a team who are still gelling together as a unit. This is a wake up call to the lads and I'm sure they will go to Ipswich and do us proud. As well we haven't got a proper CB at the minute. If we lose one game in every 9 games then I will be well chuffed with that.
If we play like we did last night we will struggle. The first two goals were given away and there's no point using injuries as an excuse.
I'm unclear why Pearce didn't start - Lee starts other players who are not 100% match fit.
If Ipswich watch last night's game they'll know what to target. Hopefully mistakes won't be repeated.
Football is football, it's all about turning up on the day, Burton did last night, we didn't. I would love for us to win every game from now till the end of the season but it's not going to happen and I'm not saying this is the last time we will play like we did last night because it will happen again this season but very rarely. Like I also said if we lose one game in 9 for the rest of the campaign then that's playoffs form at least.
Last nights game was a blip, completely agree with Bowyers press conference after the game... We have had an amazing start under a team who are still gelling together as a unit. This is a wake up call to the lads and I'm sure they will go to Ipswich and do us proud. As well we haven't got a proper CB at the minute. If we lose one game in every 9 games then I will be well chuffed with that.
If we play like we did last night we will struggle. The first two goals were given away and there's no point using injuries as an excuse.
I'm unclear why Pearce didn't start - Lee starts other players who are not 100% match fit.
If Ipswich watch last night's game they'll know what to target. Hopefully mistakes won't be repeated.
Football is football, it's all about turning up on the day, Burton did last night, we didn't. I would love for us to win every game from now till the end of the season but it's not going to happen and I'm not saying this is the last time we will play like we did last night because it will happen again this season but very rarely. Like I also said if we lose one game in 9 for the rest of the campaign then that's playoffs form at least.
Like you I would love it if we did well but we were shambolic last night - we shipped 4 goals against the bottom team in L1. I'd have been less concerned at a narrow defeat.
Good teams are built on a solid defence - there was little evidence of that last night. If you close us down we panic - I'm not sure what LB will change on Saturday?
If we start the same players on Saturday and continue to play out from the back in a pedestrian/predictable manner I can't see how it can work.
The last two games have been concerning, I'm not so sure there will be a quick fix for Saturday. We need to go back to basics and stop overplaying at the back.
The last two games have been concerning, I'm not so sure there will be a quick fix for Saturday. We need to go back to basics and stop overplaying at the back.
Entirely agree with you. Regardless of the result on Saturday I'd like a solid defensive display - no problem if our football is a little more industrial.
We haven't really been convincing and having beaten 6 bottom sides we've racked up points. Last night was a a shambles and back to square pegs round holes.
If Maddison and Gilbey need minutes put them in the u23s. Morgan has to start, I get the Chuks situation. If Pearce is the answer then I'm stumped
Top teams stick to a shape, a plan and let other teams worry about them
Last night we started off slow, nonchalent, and veery, very predictable. We had no idea what to do other than pass it forward once then sideways, backwards and then repeat, it's been the way we play for a year now. It's pretty boring, especially passing free kicks in the opposition half back to the keeper or a CH on the edge of the box.
We looked like a pub team after a night on the piss last night and If I was losing 50m a year on it I'd want some answers why.
Has to improve after that, it can't fail too get better.
Skipped this place when the final whistle went as judging by the match thread it wasn't going to be a pleasant time. The fact is we set up with an odd shape given the players we had on the pitch and were punished at the back for a lack of fit centre halves which Burton saw coming and punished. If Pearce and Deji had actually been fit to play then they would have played, they were clearly there to be part of the matchday squad and ease back in rather than actually being in a position where they could realistically play for us. I reckon Chuks probably will start against Ipswich but I wonder how long he'll last if he does. We had a real injury crisis last season, and this time we're playing Saturday/Tuesday pretty much every week. I wonder if the people complaining about Chuks not starting and the team being rotated are the same ones who complain that Bowyer must be doing something wrong for us to have all the injuries we get? Maybe he's being over-cautious now but we've already seen Famewo, Inniss, Pearce, Deji, Gilbey, Chuks, Williams, Doughty, JFC and Maddison go down with injuries this season. If Bowyer had started either or both of those centre halves who have played 70 mins in an u23 game this season between them then all we would have heard is that Bowyer shouldn't have risked them when Gunter and Pratley did perfectly well against Gillingham. We'd be a lot more miserable if one of them had gone back on the treatment table because they were rushed back too soon.
Burton out-thought and out-fought us yesterday, they targeted our weakness and we didn't set up to protect it or have enough about us going forward to offset their plan. I do hope to never see a flat midfield four with a centre mid and an attacking midfielder in the wide positions again though, that was a weird choice. Seemed we were perfectly set up to play 4-3-3 or the diamond.
Comments
Ive never seen a “good manager” make a sub after 15 minutes, or just a “manager” for that matter.
Maddison was shite, but divides the dressing room? Again, you must know something Bowyer doesn’t.
Morgan should start, so too Aneke.
A win at Ipswich and we could go third so it's really not time to panic just yet.
Maatsen has been one of our best players but he needs a rest now and Purrington needs to come in.
i agree, it is odd that Pearce is still not playing after a half last week.
there really were people saying we won’t lose more than a couple more this season !
I predicted a play off loss this season and see no reason to change although even I was thinking we’d be knocking on top 2’s door but I still don’t think we’ve ever got going yet and what with injuries and whatever not sure we ever will be able to .
I’m most disappointed that the “we should be grateful we’ve got a club to support” rhetoric hasn’t come out
I’d take a point at Ipswich now
He’s a poster who adds caution and doesn’t get carried away like the naive amongst us, plenty lol his words of caution but he was one of the first to call out our shitness last year and he’s added words of caution for this season .
Even i gotten carried away to a point but he is right , we’ve got results without ,to me, ever looking like we’ve got going which is great but we have to at some point get going , these players who aren’t fit need to get fit .
We can blame the refs , injuries and whatever else but excuses don’t win matches , we’ve won our games without really being convincing , we are light years away from the well oiled machine that was SCP’s all conquering Champions .
Let’s hope it’s just a blip and I’m sure it is but if someone offered me a play off spot right now , I’d take it no hesitation .
in Thomas we trust .
I think Bows thought we could get away with all of the above because we would be so much better than Burton who have clearly been poor for the past 14 games.
The playing out from the back and keeping possession is obviously how Bows wants to play. But we seem to have no tactics for corners and free kicks (there was a free kick last night in the Burton half we could have launched into their box but Watson took it quick and short, and it ended up back with Amos). We don’t vary things enough. We don’t have Naby in the back four who can play an educated ball forward.
Some on here are saying Pearce and Deji should have played but can you imagine the pelters everyone would have got had they both played and we’d given away those two goals?
In some ways, what happened last night and on Saturday at the Gills was previewed by the Fleetwood game when we threw away a two goal lead and were lucky to get the three points. While we do have more bodies in the building now, we still don’t really have real strength in depth of the quality that we need.
We don’t have the likes of Taylor, Bauer, Aribo, Bielik, Cullen and Gallagher.
And whatever Bows says, we lose an awful lot of players to injuries in training.
The January window will be an interesting statement of intent for the rest of the season but hopefully we can see what sort of players a normal club can get.
It's pretty evident from last night that if you close us down we will make mistakes. Hopefully concentration levels will be better by Saturday.
Like others on here I'm not sure how strong this squad is.
As well as moving the ball quicker we miss Doughty’s pace - having that option means we can look for a quick ball into space for him and not just a direct ball up to Aneke or Bogle. Smyth is the closest to that but Washington perhaps offers better movement and is a bit more physical to handle CBs.
I said before the game it’s potentially our best midfield, I meant that in a diamond. In a flat four the balance isn’t right, there’s no real pace and they’re all too similar. I also said before the it might turn out that would be the case, it was very similar to the example I gave of 11/12 when Green Stephens Hollands Jackson was good on paper but had the same issue of no pace, lacking energy/movement and too many similar players.
I’m not going to overreact, it’s a 46 game season and results like this sometimes happen. The Scunthorpe 5-3 or Notts County 4-2 in 18/19 and 11/12 respectively didn’t stop us getting promoted. The important thing is we react in the right way. Morgan and Aneke deserve and need to start on Saturday. Bogle and Maddison can earn their chance from the bench as those two did.
I'm unclear why Pearce didn't start - Lee starts other players who are not 100% match fit.
If Ipswich watch last night's game they'll know what to target. Hopefully mistakes won't be repeated.
Good teams are built on a solid defence - there was little evidence of that last night. If you close us down we panic - I'm not sure what LB will change on Saturday?
If we start the same players on Saturday and continue to play out from the back in a pedestrian/predictable manner I can't see how it can work.
Last night was a a shambles and back to square pegs round holes.
If Maddison and Gilbey need minutes put them in the u23s.
Morgan has to start, I get the Chuks situation.
If Pearce is the answer then I'm stumped
Top teams stick to a shape, a plan and let other teams worry about them
Last night we started off slow, nonchalent, and veery, very predictable. We had no idea what to do other than pass it forward once then sideways, backwards and then repeat, it's been the way we play for a year now. It's pretty boring, especially passing free kicks in the opposition half back to the keeper or a CH on the edge of the box.
We looked like a pub team after a night on the piss last night and If I was losing 50m a year on it I'd want some answers why.
Has to improve after that, it can't fail too get better.
Or at least 70