Pretty concerning that Bogle was subbed after 30 minutes for tactical reasons, when our other target man striker Aneke is made of glass.
That tells you how bad Bogle was in those 30 minutes.
I dont think Bogle was overly bad... Maybe his movement off camera wasnt good enough - Was certainly challenging well at times, just the ball wasnt quite sticking enough... Would give the Burton players more credit than blame Omar for that
Well, that was a waste of a tenner. Absolute shambles - did we ever pass the ball forward in the first half? All you heard from the match commentators was ‘Charlton play it backwards’ or ‘Charlton play it sideways’. How many goals have we conceded by fannying about at the back? Surely we have to do better on Saturday.
I was saying to my daughter (and have for ages) all this passing round the back we will get caught out and concede at times because of it. Two of their goals came from misplaced passing across the back 5.
Pretty concerning that Bogle was subbed after 30 minutes for tactical reasons, when our other target man striker Aneke is made of glass.
Maybe Bowyer thinks he is more fragile than he is. He played a full season for MK Dons before joining us. He picked up a slight knock against Blackpool but is probably ready to start now.
I think him coming on allowed us to bypass the press as we had an outlet. Even if Aneke didn't win clean ball, he stopped them doing so. He provided an outlet that was needed.
Injuries, almost feel like the norm and I don’t think we’ll ever have everyone available but it’ll give us an excuse all season with wait till everyone’s fit . The league is so shit I think we could get promotion some way or other by not producing our best for a lot of the season . To me it looks like there’s so much more we can produce but I’m not sure we will produce it that often .
edit : posted this on Saturday and feel it's appropriate to say again
Bogle isn’t good enough IMO. Chucks can’t play 90 as LB keeps saying so people need to stop expecting him to start - instead we need to firmly be eyeing up decent strikers for January.
Terry talks so much shit, his commentating has been as shit as our performance on the pitch. Like having my demented nan on the mic.
Think that is a bit over the top but I’d agree in that the commentating is pretty poor. What idea people get of the game who are only listening heaven only knows.
Pretty concerning that Bogle was subbed after 30 minutes for tactical reasons, when our other target man striker Aneke is made of glass.
That tells you how bad Bogle was in those 30 minutes.
I dont think Bogle was overly bad... Maybe his movement off camera wasnt good enough - Was certainly challenging well at times, just the ball wasnt quite sticking enough... Would give the Burton players more credit than blame Omar for that
Burton handled him well, but when Chuks came on he immediately looked a threat, winning headers in the air and looking much more dynamic in his play. When a direct swap makes such a change, especially when the player replaced was still fresh, that's pretty damning
Maybe our lot just believed their own results and took it for granted that we were entitled to a win. Arrogance, pride before a fall, all that. Burton knew where they stood and did what they needed to do. I really hope they fight their way out of the relegation zone. They deserve it. A good shake up for us - hopefully will keep us honest.
We were too complacent from the start , and couldn't match their work rate . Bogle probably wasn't our worst player . Stating the obvious , but Aneke , Morgan and Pearce must start on Saturday.
Terry talks so much shit, his commentating has been as shit as our performance on the pitch. Like having my demented nan on the mic.
Think that is a bit over the top but I’d agree in that the commentating is pretty poor. What idea people get of the game who are only listening heaven only knows.
For me, it's the stuff like "you've got to be JOKING me!" that's just loudly pronounced out of nowhere instead of describing the action. I get, and understand, and tolerate the bias (even though it inevitably leads to inaccuracies). But pronouncing judgement on the ref/players/managers etc is distantly secondary to describing the action.
Also, mixing up Shinnie/Gilbey or Gunter/Matthews gets a bit tiring (especially if, as you say, you're only listening).
I'm not going to get my knickers in a twist because for the first game in 9 we have come away without a point. I'll leave that for if we dont get anything from the next two.
There wasn't some sort of genius master plan from Burton.....they just worked very hard, closed us down, marked their men and got in first. Basically, what every good team has done in English football since time began. You see defenders pissing about with it, so you immediately close them down and force errors. The defenders probably didn't want to go long because we had a midget playing up front with a bloke who couldn't win a thing and unfortunately Bowyer has to take some of the blame for setting us up like that to start with.
It just looked like we turned up expecting a nice little 3-0 cruise and couldn't believe Burton would actually have the nerve to close us down repeatedly.
That said, it was an odd game in so much that we had so many chances in that 2nd half but only scored one from a non-chance.
It's madness playing Smyth up front in this league (or probably any other one). The guy is a good player but he just doesn't have the build or height to play up front and hold the ball up and he just gets thumped all over the place by the hulking brutes that all teams have in the centre of their defences.
If you're going to play him, play him wide in midfield where he can make a positive contribution to the team.
agree with all the points about the defensive errors and stupidity in not using Barker, Pearce or Oshilaja - but it was in midfield that we lost it - no-one showed for the ball, moved in to space or created options and the back 4 were put under increased pressure and in possession either went sideways (and gifted them 2 goals) or resorted to long balls.
Was going to post something similar. Think defense needs to take their share of the blame but midfield was really poor as well. Gilbey looked way off the pace. Shinnie had an off night, and without the ability to play to those two, Watson is wasted in his ability to dictate play.
It was the same on Saturday as well. We can keep it between the keeper, two center backs, and holding midfielder, but moving it up the pitch is harder. That's what worries me the most. We've got some technically good midfielders, but teams know that and will press us in the middle third and look to overrun midfield. And with that, we struggle to move the ball forward.
When that happens, you have the choice of going long, which we started doing when Chuks came on, and he is a very good target man. Or going wide, which we tried to do but Smyth was playing centrally (which was baffling) and Maddison was playing poorly (which was not, he has not looked up to it yet).
Wholesale changes needed for Satruday. Bring in Pearce and Deji and Chuks from the start. If fit, I'd have JFC in midfield alongside Watson and Shinnie. Morgan and Washington wide.
There wasn't some sort of genius master plan from Burton.....they just worked very hard, closed us down, marked their men and got in first. Basically, what every good team has done in English football since time began. You see defenders pissing about with it, so you immediately close them down and force errors. The defenders probably didn't want to go long because we had a midget playing up front with a bloke who couldn't win a thing and unfortunately Bowyer has to take some of the blame for setting us up like that to start with.
It just looked like we turned up expecting a nice little 3-0 cruise and couldn't believe Burton would actually have the nerve to close us down repeatedly.
That said, it was an odd game in so much that we had so many chances in that 2nd half but only scored one from a non-chance.
It's madness playing Smyth up front in this league (or probably any other one). The guy is a good player but he just doesn't have the build or height to play up front and hold the ball up and he just gets thumped all over the place by the hulking brutes that all teams have in the centre of their defences.
If you're going to play him, play him wide in midfield where he can make a positive contribution to the team.
Or play him up front with the bloke (Aneke) who is guaranteed to win headers
Dont see the issue with his height when Leo Messi is smaller
Burton will have come out trying to win their last 20 games..... They achieved that objective once in those 20 games. They came out with the same objective tonight and firmly put us on our arse. So why has that happened.... over to LB.. because it is not because Burton have been transformed in to a super side.
Let’s not pick on Madison and Bogle, pretty much everybody was culpable in that shambles. Aneke, great goal and looked lively, but also had his time lumbering around looking lost.
Put it behind us, and go again. I still believe we are the good team we saw a few weeks ago, rather than shower of shit, in last two games.
Pretty concerning that Bogle was subbed after 30 minutes for tactical reasons, when our other target man striker Aneke is made of glass.
That tells you how bad Bogle was in those 30 minutes.
I dont think Bogle was overly bad... Maybe his movement off camera wasnt good enough - Was certainly challenging well at times, just the ball wasnt quite sticking enough... Would give the Burton players more credit than blame Omar for that
I don't knock his lack of effort. I just don't think that he is good enough. If the ball doesn't stick and that seems to be the case more often than not, then he doesn't offer much. The difference between him and Chuks is clear to see.
There wasn't some sort of genius master plan from Burton.....they just worked very hard, closed us down, marked their men and got in first. Basically, what every good team has done in English football since time began. You see defenders pissing about with it, so you immediately close them down and force errors. The defenders probably didn't want to go long because we had a midget playing up front with a bloke who couldn't win a thing and unfortunately Bowyer has to take some of the blame for setting us up like that to start with.
It just looked like we turned up expecting a nice little 3-0 cruise and couldn't believe Burton would actually have the nerve to close us down repeatedly.
That said, it was an odd game in so much that we had so many chances in that 2nd half but only scored one from a non-chance.
It's madness playing Smyth up front in this league (or probably any other one). The guy is a good player but he just doesn't have the build or height to play up front and hold the ball up and he just gets thumped all over the place by the hulking brutes that all teams have in the centre of their defences.
If you're going to play him, play him wide in midfield where he can make a positive contribution to the team.
Or play him up front with the bloke (Aneke) who is guaranteed to win headers
Dont see the issue with his height when Leo Messi is smaller
No sorry, disagree. It doesn't matter who he partners up front, he's just not got the physique or stature to do it successfully.
And Messi might be a slightly better player than Smyth.
- I am willing to write that off as a perfect storm of total shit. But I won't be tolerating that again.
- Gunter put in one of the worst performances I've seen for a long, long time. He isn't a centre back and it showed horribly. But he didn't shirk from anything as a result of some truly schoolboy stuff, which is credit to his character.
- Pratley isn't a centre back, either.
- We were like night and day before/after Maddison. He was wank. Morgan coming on was like flipping a switch: we suddenly looked incisive.
- I don't think Bogle was even near our worst player when he was subbed off, and I thought the like-for-like change pointed toward Bowyer's tactical naivety. He wasn't great though. I'd have taken off Smyth and gone long ball (much against my personal philosophy but hey sometimes you need to be pragmatic) - Burton had done their homework and just allowed Pratley/Watson/Maatsen to pass pointlessly between each other for ages. (Though Smyth scored, so shows what I know!)
- Aneke's overhead kick was a bit of joy. He was very, very good but I think would benefit from a strike partner in the same postcode.
- Watson didn't deserve his booking. He wasn't very good: a bit slow. Father Time is knocking and I hope there isn't a dramatic decline come say Jan/Feb, which I fear.
- Maatsen had a shocker until the last 20 minutes, when he was allowed to go forward. Defensively he needs an awful lot of work. And new boots - he kept slipping.
- Shinnie is good but a bit one-paced; Gilbey isn't as fit as I'd hope. Neither were particularly terrible or particularly good.
- In my opinion, it was unforgivable that Bowyer gave substitute berths to two players he obviously had absolutely no intention of playing (Oshilaja and Pearce). Gunter and Pratley patently was not working and we needed to bring on a centre back to sort our terrible positioning out. But he didn't - my only explanation is that they were not fit to play.
- Don't do that stupid pass again Amos. Otherwise I'd say he played really well. But that pass... I mean, it was SO bad.
- Smyth was largely anonymous but for the goal, but I love how he picked the ball out the net like it was the 89th minute at 2-1 down in the 40th. That's good character.
- Burton were far better than their league position suggests and I think this is down to players returning from a Covid isolation period? If not, then... well, we made them look excellent. Akins would be an upgrade on Bogle.
All in all, one to forget. Everything that could have gone wrong went wrong. We go again.
Egg on the faces for all the young know alls on this forum tonight. Grossly over milking certain players, reading results off of league positions, not realising that without Famewo/Inniss we are really nothing special in this league etc etc.
Lack of goal threat, trying to shoehorn unfit players like Maddison and Gilbey into the side, not starting centre halves and putting them on the bench. 442 was a crap selection with that midfield. A good manager would have changed it after 15 minutes.
Keep the LOL's coming as per Saturday but I say it again, there is no room for an individual player like Maddison in this TEAM. Walking down the tunnel when subbed just sums this prima donna up. A player that divides the dressing room. Scandalous performance/behaviour from him tonight.
Don’t know if there’s any personal spats behind this @bolloxbolder , but you’re a much much better poster than that mate
Burton will have come out trying to win their last 20 games..... They achieved that objective once in those 20 games. They came out with the same objective tonight and firmly put us on our arse. So why has that happened.... over to LB.. because it is not because Burton have been transformed in to a super side.
Let’s not pick on Madison and Bogle, pretty much everybody was culpable in that shambles. Aneke, great goal and looked lively, but also had his time lumbering around looking lost.
Put it behind us, and go again. I still believe we are the good team we saw a few weeks ago, rather than shower of shit, in last two games.
I think the difference was that Burton set out to nullify us rather than beat us. That was how they thought they could beat us. They probably tried to beat Northampton on Saturday. The issue was their tactics were working and after they scored their first, Bowyer should have changed things.
The passes the back four made were not opening them up and were not necessarily a pass to somebody in a better position. You keep doing that you lose the ball through a poor pass or through pressure. We needed to bypass the press tonight. But we were not winning enough second ball.
Aneke was the right sub as he was a target. It allowed us to play more direct. But we were 2 nil down when it was made. When we attacked them, they did look vulnerable. Bowyer got it wrong tonight but hopefully he will get it right on Saturday. Ipswich may not try to nullify us although after watching tonight they probably will try the high press. We need a contingency to counter that quickly if it happens.
Found Maatsen's performance baffling, what's happened to him in the past 2? Genuinely think I could've done better than him out there tonight ffs. Onto the next one, think Saturdays game is a perfect opportunity for us.
A diabolical first half, in which we were totally unable to cope with Burton’s high press and general intensity. Too much fannying around at the back cost us dear; to give the opposition one goal like that is terrible, to give them a second is quite unforgivable and I can’t remember us doing that in 52 years of watching Charlton. We lost out on every 50/50 ball and our players lack of movement meant that we were unable to break the lines and cause Burton any difficulty whatsoever. Smyth’s goal shortly before half time gave us a lifeline which, quite frankly, flattered us.
We started the second half with a little more vigour (it could hardly have been less) but some further defensive ineptitude from a corner restored Burton’s two goal lead. The introduction of Albie Morgan made a big difference and his clever ball into Aneke and the latter’s cross was nearly put away by Washington from a couple of yards out. Aneke’s chest control and beautifully hooked volley from Albie’s instant cross put us back in game but less than 10 minutes later Burton effectively put the game to bed following more feeble defending.
We came close one more time but Burton ended up easy and thoroughly deserved winners. A pity that Pearce couldn’t get some minutes, as we really do need him back in central defence. On the basis of that performance, Charlie Barker may also be getting some game time before Inniss and Famewo are back in harness.
The only real positives on a generally abysmal night were the performances of two of our substitutes, Aneke and Albie Morgan. Our defence was hopeless and the midfield, with the exception of Morgan, very poor, with Maddison an almost complete passenger.
The effective approach which Burton deployed against us will certainly not go unnoticed in this division and we need to seriously up our game and be prepared to adapt it where necessary. It is important not to overact to a first defeat in nine games - we haven’t become a poor team overnight - but there is much to ponder before Saturday’s trip to Ipswich.
Comments
I think him coming on allowed us to bypass the press as we had an outlet. Even if Aneke didn't win clean ball, he stopped them doing so. He provided an outlet that was needed.
https://londonnewsonline.co.uk/it-was-like-weve-never-played-football-before-lee-bowyers-frank-assessment-as-charlton-are-humbled-4-2-by-struggling-burton-albion/
Also, mixing up Shinnie/Gilbey or Gunter/Matthews gets a bit tiring (especially if, as you say, you're only listening).
If you're going to play him, play him wide in midfield where he can make a positive contribution to the team.
It was the same on Saturday as well. We can keep it between the keeper, two center backs, and holding midfielder, but moving it up the pitch is harder. That's what worries me the most. We've got some technically good midfielders, but teams know that and will press us in the middle third and look to overrun midfield. And with that, we struggle to move the ball forward.
When that happens, you have the choice of going long, which we started doing when Chuks came on, and he is a very good target man. Or going wide, which we tried to do but Smyth was playing centrally (which was baffling) and Maddison was playing poorly (which was not, he has not looked up to it yet).
Wholesale changes needed for Satruday. Bring in Pearce and Deji and Chuks from the start. If fit, I'd have JFC in midfield alongside Watson and Shinnie. Morgan and Washington wide.
Dont see the issue with his height when Leo Messi is smaller
Let’s not pick on Madison and Bogle, pretty much everybody was culpable in that shambles. Aneke, great goal and looked lively, but also had his time lumbering around looking lost.
The difference between him and Chuks is clear to see.
And Messi might be a slightly better player than Smyth.
https://londonnewsonline.co.uk/charlton-boss-lee-bowyer-reveals-thinking-behind-omar-bogles-withdrawal-during-first-half-of-loss-at-burton-albion/
- I am willing to write that off as a perfect storm of total shit. But I won't be tolerating that again.
- Gunter put in one of the worst performances I've seen for a long, long time. He isn't a centre back and it showed horribly. But he didn't shirk from anything as a result of some truly schoolboy stuff, which is credit to his character.
- Pratley isn't a centre back, either.
- We were like night and day before/after Maddison. He was wank. Morgan coming on was like flipping a switch: we suddenly looked incisive.
- I don't think Bogle was even near our worst player when he was subbed off, and I thought the like-for-like change pointed toward Bowyer's tactical naivety. He wasn't great though. I'd have taken off Smyth and gone long ball (much against my personal philosophy but hey sometimes you need to be pragmatic) - Burton had done their homework and just allowed Pratley/Watson/Maatsen to pass pointlessly between each other for ages. (Though Smyth scored, so shows what I know!)
- Aneke's overhead kick was a bit of joy. He was very, very good but I think would benefit from a strike partner in the same postcode.
- Watson didn't deserve his booking. He wasn't very good: a bit slow. Father Time is knocking and I hope there isn't a dramatic decline come say Jan/Feb, which I fear.
- Maatsen had a shocker until the last 20 minutes, when he was allowed to go forward. Defensively he needs an awful lot of work. And new boots - he kept slipping.
- Shinnie is good but a bit one-paced; Gilbey isn't as fit as I'd hope. Neither were particularly terrible or particularly good.
- In my opinion, it was unforgivable that Bowyer gave substitute berths to two players he obviously had absolutely no intention of playing (Oshilaja and Pearce). Gunter and Pratley patently was not working and we needed to bring on a centre back to sort our terrible positioning out. But he didn't - my only explanation is that they were not fit to play.
- Don't do that stupid pass again Amos. Otherwise I'd say he played really well. But that pass... I mean, it was SO bad.
- Smyth was largely anonymous but for the goal, but I love how he picked the ball out the net like it was the 89th minute at 2-1 down in the 40th. That's good character.
- Burton were far better than their league position suggests and I think this is down to players returning from a Covid isolation period? If not, then... well, we made them look excellent. Akins would be an upgrade on Bogle.
All in all, one to forget. Everything that could have gone wrong went wrong. We go again.
The passes the back four made were not opening them up and were not necessarily a pass to somebody in a better position. You keep doing that you lose the ball through a poor pass or through pressure. We needed to bypass the press tonight. But we were not winning enough second ball.
Aneke was the right sub as he was a target. It allowed us to play more direct. But we were 2 nil down when it was made. When we attacked them, they did look vulnerable. Bowyer got it wrong tonight but hopefully he will get it right on Saturday. Ipswich may not try to nullify us although after watching tonight they probably will try the high press. We need a contingency to counter that quickly if it happens.
That was truly atrocious.
A diabolical first half, in which we were totally unable to cope with Burton’s high press and general intensity. Too much fannying around at the back cost us dear; to give the opposition one goal like that is terrible, to give them a second is quite unforgivable and I can’t remember us doing that in 52 years of watching Charlton. We lost out on every 50/50 ball and our players lack of movement meant that we were unable to break the lines and cause Burton any difficulty whatsoever. Smyth’s goal shortly before half time gave us a lifeline which, quite frankly, flattered us.
We started the second half with a little more vigour (it could hardly have been less) but some further defensive ineptitude from a corner restored Burton’s two goal lead. The introduction of Albie Morgan made a big difference and his clever ball into Aneke and the latter’s cross was nearly put away by Washington from a couple of yards out. Aneke’s chest control and beautifully hooked volley from Albie’s instant cross put us back in game but less than 10 minutes later Burton effectively put the game to bed following more feeble defending.
We came close one more time but Burton ended up easy and thoroughly deserved winners. A pity that Pearce couldn’t get some minutes, as we really do need him back in central defence. On the basis of that performance, Charlie Barker may also be getting some game time before Inniss and Famewo are back in harness.
The only real positives on a generally abysmal night were the performances of two of our substitutes, Aneke and Albie Morgan. Our defence was hopeless and the midfield, with the exception of Morgan, very poor, with Maddison an almost complete passenger.
The effective approach which Burton deployed against us will certainly not go unnoticed in this division and we need to seriously up our game and be prepared to adapt it where necessary. It is important not to overact to a first defeat in nine games - we haven’t become a poor team overnight - but there is much to ponder before Saturday’s trip to Ipswich.