There's definitely something wrong with our midfield. We have a lot of options, but somehow don't seem to have much energy or pace, I actually thought Pratley improved things when we moved into midfield late in the game, as he has more energy than some of the other options, and is faster than you'd expect. At least he was hassling them a bit, as today the game passed Watson and Gilbey by.
Fraser joined MKD late, but since the 3rd October has started ALL their league games, playing the full 90 in the majority of them and only going off early once (due to a knock). No sign that HE needs to be rotated
Players are different. You could easily say the same about Shinnie or Bogle.
Got to query team selection. Chuks should be starting ahead of Bogle. And then there’s Purrington! Anyone know what’s happened to Barker?
Aneke can't manage a 90 (though I think playing him the first 60 is better), Barker apparently could suffer a career threatening mistake (Bowyers opinion)
That last sentence is utter tosh. If LB has said that then he hasn't a clue. Career threatening mistake ?? Wtf ?? I've heard it all now...
Well Bent’s career sort of went downhill when he missed that chance Sandra would have scored ...
“We've been wanting them to come back from day one. Even with 2,000 I expected it to be non-stop singing and pushing them. It was very, very quiet apart from some negative shouting. I get the players didn't do very much to get them on their feet."
It would be quiet when your midfield gets run over time and time again and 90% of the fans know it’s only a matter of time. I love the man but that’s fucking poor form.
I'll tell you what's left me miffed. We have allegedly bought MK Dons best midfielder who won their POTY aware, yet every one of their midfielders looked better than him? He looks so dangly, not impressed so far.
Only bright spark was Maddison, if we had a target man we could have maybe nicked a result, unfortunately we don't.
Have a look at that... Bowyer has taken the absolute piss. As someone who was there 1.5hrs before kick off ready to cheer the boys on, with at least half of the crowd being either Children or 'older', please forgive us for not singing start to finish with a drum for 90 minutes while that team did next to nothing. The setup was totally inept, the tactics were bang off and playing on Saturday is no excuse.
For the first time, my attention is on Bowyer. If you have players in your lineup like Maddison, Shinnie, Gilbey, Watson, Gunter, Washington and you can't get them creating, then maybe your system needs some attention, rather than the fans.
But then he isnt blaming the fans for the performance
“I’ve just said to them in there, if you can’t play in front of 2,000 then stop the game now. Because this stadium will be full again – 2,000 is not a big amount of people, so you shouldn’t get nervous and doing the wrong thing or hiding from the ball. None of them did that.
“Listen, the players didn’t really do too much to get people on their feet – but sometimes they need a bit of help, and that’s what our fans are great at.
The team has done perfectly fine without fans present for the last few months. Im sure the fans gave their all tonight, and when you get played off the park by MK Dons, even the best fans in the world aren't gonna break windows with their noise. Yes Lee isn't blaming the fans for the performance, but to call them out at all is bullshit. I've always had one gripe with Bowyer, that he doesn't hold himself accountable nearly enough, and tonight I could not be more pissed about it.
What is it with midweek games? In fact any game that isn't a 3pm kick-off? Is there something different with the preparation? is it the constant tinkering by Bowyer, which despite injuries hasn't always been a necessity?
I did the sums for last season a while ago and there must be something in the stats. Last season in the Championship we played 23 games at 3pm, picking up 34 points. The same number of games with kick-offs at other times provided us with 14 points.
Is it just me or does this statistic seem very odd?
We've just lost two consecutive midweek league games to supposedly lesser opposition. I hope we're not going to fall back into last season's midweek form.
We’ve been saying for weeks now that we have no available CBs. But today we had 2 CBs available but LB didn’t start either of them. I would say, from how Famewo came on, Bowyer was in error. I do believe LB is getting more negative/cautious in his coaching decisions. His starting 11’s seem strong on paper but we aren’t really performing. Is it because he imposes strict discipline on the players and it is stunting the creativity? Is it because the players he picks are not the strongest available starting 11? I don’t know. Our new owner himself says he likes attractive, attacking play but I’m not seeing that. I do believe we have the players though.
Don’t get me wrong, I like Lee Bowyer and want him to succeed with us but he does seem to be changing a bit. And, for me, it seems to be stunting the creativity of our players of which we have a few.
He obviously has a stubborn streak. I hope that’s not starting to get in the way of sound decision making. Don’t take it all on yourself Lee. You have a good coaching staff as well. Do you listen to them or do you make all the decisions yourself?
I know this post is quite cutting against Lee Bowyer but I’ve been noticing a difference. Especially in not picking/starting the right players when they are available, or playing them out of position or playing them in a style which is not natural/comfortable for them. All of this can stunt creativity.
Hopefully Lee makes me look a right prat by winning the next 6 but I’m commenting from what I’ve been seeing in the last few games.
A good test for Bowyer. Curbs’ greatest skill was early tactical changes when things went wrong, both during games and between games. Unless some fundamental changes are made more defeats are on the cards.
Let's not got over board with Bowyers comments please. He's a decent manager at this level but he's also a hot head which we all know and I'm surprised it's taken this long for him to open his mouth and upset us all. I see him as a very watered down Roy Keane so I half expect it, not that I agree with his comments. Alex Ferguson the greatest manager of my generation never bad mouthed the club (players, fans, board etc) in public which built a layer of respect from the club & players. Obviously things went off behind the scenes but most things never went public. Even the Beckham boot fiasco disappeared pretty quickly. Bowyer was pissed off, frustrated and lashing out. I'm sure when he's calmed down he'll realise his mistakes and might even issue a apology.
Gilbey should’ve come off at half-time. But one or two passes he made no impact. Need to say no more about bogle. I thought this was a good half for Madison and some of those crosses were very very good. They were doing to us what we should have been doing to them which was pressing them in midfield all the time.In fairness to bowyer we did have lots of chances but squandered them. Our defence did not defend; they were able to run at us at will, pass us by, and in general look so much stronger than us in attack.
Regarding my comment on madders boots it was purely a minor comment - I’m not digging the player out it’s the same annoyance as being served a pint in a different branded glass - minor, I wrote quite a lengthy post about him being tainted the same as Tony watt due to tattoos and our some of our fans not getting off his back. He was clearly the best player last night and done something.
Bowyer does not get a free pass this season. He either takes us up or we get rid of him. Massive o.g from him tonight, blaming the fans. Someone should have a word in his ear about what happened to Andy Nelson. Welcome back to the valley and btw its your fault we lost. He has no idea what Charlton fans have been through and to call us out in the middle of the pandemic is unforgivable. He needs to have a look at himself and apologise to the fans for his insulting comments.
You've got to be joking?
Bowyer is well aware what we've been through, he's been through a lot of it with us!! He could've walked away at any point over the past year and we'd have been totally fucked, but he stuck with us so despite a few poor comments last night, he's still well in credit for me.
He obviously could've just said 'that was rubbish and i apologise to the fans who turned up', but i think perhaps the frustration of being outplayed led him to be too honest. Make no mistake, he will have been fuming at that performance and result last night.
Well that was utter shite. Stop tinkering with the side and play players in their best position. No more playing full backs at centre half. And instead of pointing the finger at 2k fans who sat in the freezing cold for about 4 hours. Just admit that for once you got it completely wrong.
Can someone please explain to me why we persist with a makeshift centre back pairing when Pearce has been on the bench for the past few games. He played a half at the start of November, so he's surely fit enough to start a game by now.
As others have picked up on, and I think Greg Stubley mentioned it during his commentary last night, we have no set shape and we started with 2 up top, that then became 4-5-1 with Washington going wide. It was 4-3-3 at the start of the second half that then just disintegrated into a mess as the game went on.
I think we flatter to deceive with these little triangles in and around our defence via Watson, and to be honest, a lot of people said Washington was one of the only players to come out of the game with any credit, but he didn’t really do anything on the ball when he came short.
I really think Bowyer needs to work out was his best XI looks like and the style of play he wants to adopt. We have a big squad, but we don’t have quality. We can’t rotate like Guardiola can at Man City, because we don’t have the talent. I mean even Klopp with all his available talent seems to pick a fairy consistent line up when he doesn’t have injuries.
look at two seasons ago. That midfield 4 of Bielik, Cullen, Aribo and Williams was fairly settled for the most part. Pratley may come in from time to time, but it was a settled unit. Until we get that then we’re going to continue to turn in performances like we did last night
I appreciate Gilbey has only just come back from injury, but the jury’s still out for me on his ability. Apart from the run toward the end of the first half, I thought he was anonymous. We need Famewo and Inniss back, that’s for sure. The only worry I have is when they’re both back is Bowyer’s fetish for Pratley and Watson in the middle.
i think we have big challenges that we need to address if we want to get out of this league
I think he will turn it round too. It would be helpful if he identifies what needs improving as it definitely isn't any of those 2k fans. But as you say, things get said in the heat of the moment and a good performance on Saturday and these things get forgotten quickly.
Maybe a point will come when we are fresher than other teams. It doesn't look like it tonight, but it is a long season.
But MK Dons have played one more game than us in all comps, have a smaller squad than we have and had 24 hours less time to get over their last game as theirs was on Sunday.
Bowyer does not get a free pass this season. He either takes us up or we get rid of him. Massive o.g from him tonight, blaming the fans. Someone should have a word in his ear about what happened to Andy Nelson. Welcome back to the valley and btw its your fault we lost. He has no idea what Charlton fans have been through and to call us out in the middle of the pandemic is unforgivable. He needs to have a look at himself and apologise to the fans for his insulting comments.
Football fans at their best. So if you bring another manager in and has a s*** 3 months you bring sonebody else in.
"There we are Lee, we have faith in you, sign this 3 year contract. You are the man to lead us forward, we have patience and will give you time".
Lets all be honest at the start of the season we could easily have found ourselves in the position Wigan are in. We aren't. We are 4th.
Bowyer has SOME questions to answer re tactics and motivation of the players. With the probable exception of Amos and Morgan EVERY player is having too many bad games. By that I mean below their par. Individually they are all better than that, and have shown it at times already this season.
For a team that had so many experienced players in it, probably approaching 4000 professional games, there is a real lack of leadership on the pitch. Can't they see it and react to it?
I don't honestly think a single on of them is "here for the money", they are here to play.
Charlie Barker is not the answer. He is an U18 who came in, because of the "situation" and did OK. In fact he did better than OK for such a young inexperienced player. Being honest though if he was a 25 year old signing he would probably get a lot more critiscm, and it's right he doesn't. But he isn't a Gomez, a Bowyer or a Shelvey. He is one for the future, not the now. On the other hand what is Mingi doing at the club, being that much older, if he can't even get on the bench when we have no center halves at all?
Lastly it's very damming of Bowyer, and his staff, that the team was playing better when they weren't training and playing as a scratch team every 3 or 4 days. Something isn't right. Hopefully Bowyer can sort that out because I really want him to succeed after everything he has been through.
Lets all be honest at the start of the season we could easily have found ourselves in the position Wigan are in. We aren't. We are 4th.
Bowyer has SOME questions to answer re tactics and motivation of the players. With the probable exception of Amos and Morgan EVERY player is having too many bad games. By that I mean below their par. Individually they are all better than that, and have shown it at times already this season.
For a team that had so many experienced players in it, probably approaching 4000 professional games, there is a real lack of leadership on the pitch. Can't they see it and react to it?
I don't honestly think a single on of them is "here for the money", they are here to play.
Charlie Barker is not the answer. He is an U18 who came in, because of the "situation" and did OK. In fact he did better than OK for such a young inexperienced player. Being honest though if he was a 25 year old signing he would probably get a lot more critiscm, and it's right he doesn't. But he isn't a Gomez, a Bowyer or a Shelvey. He is one for the future, not the now. On the other hand what is Mingi doing at the club, being that much older, if he can't even get on the bench when we have no center halves at all?
Lastly it's very damming of Bowyer, and his staff, that the team was playing better when they weren't training and playing as a scratch team every 3 or 4 days. Something isn't right. Hopefully Bowyer can sort that out because I really want him to succeed after everything he has been through.
I appreciate people see things differently, however, for me, I do not really understand comments like this. We are 4th in the league, and have experienced players like Watson, Pratley, and Gunter in the team - and have one of the best defensive records in the league.
It seems to be a default fan theory that when you team lose a game its because they lacked desire or didn't want it more than the opposition. I think fans struggle to appreciate that players are human and some days they will just perform badly (Burton), or others a team will be better than them (MK Dons).
Get the feeling some of the players think that they only have to turn up to beat some of the teams in this division. Either our quality is not as good as we think and some other teams are much better at dealing with our current paucity at centre half position and taking advantage.
Well off the pace last night, beaten by the better side whose use of triangles and quick movement in midfield made us look poor.
I feel sorry for those that went last night - it must have been hugely disappointing to watch.
It is worrying to have played so poorly against both Burton and MK Dons. Don't seem to be many positives. The 'easy' fixtures are the ones we are losing.
Can someone please explain to me why we persist with a makeshift centre back pairing when Pearce has been on the bench for the past few games. He played a half at the start of November, so he's surely fit enough to start a game by now.
Surely Pearce and Fanwo (sp) could've played a half each !!....madness
Lets all be honest at the start of the season we could easily have found ourselves in the position Wigan are in. We aren't. We are 4th.
Bowyer has SOME questions to answer re tactics and motivation of the players. With the probable exception of Amos and Morgan EVERY player is having too many bad games. By that I mean below their par. Individually they are all better than that, and have shown it at times already this season.
For a team that had so many experienced players in it, probably approaching 4000 professional games, there is a real lack of leadership on the pitch. Can't they see it and react to it?
I don't honestly think a single on of them is "here for the money", they are here to play.
Charlie Barker is not the answer. He is an U18 who came in, because of the "situation" and did OK. In fact he did better than OK for such a young inexperienced player. Being honest though if he was a 25 year old signing he would probably get a lot more critiscm, and it's right he doesn't. But he isn't a Gomez, a Bowyer or a Shelvey. He is one for the future, not the now. On the other hand what is Mingi doing at the club, being that much older, if he can't even get on the bench when we have no center halves at all?
Lastly it's very damming of Bowyer, and his staff, that the team was playing better when they weren't training and playing as a scratch team every 3 or 4 days. Something isn't right. Hopefully Bowyer can sort that out because I really want him to succeed after everything he has been through.
I appreciate people see things differently, however, for me, I do not really understand comments like this. We are 4th in the league, and have experienced players like Watson, Pratley, and Gunter in the team - and have one of the best defensive records in the league.
It seems to be a default fan theory that when you team lose a game its because they lacked desire or didn't want it more than the opposition. I think fans struggle to appreciate that players are human and some days they will just perform badly (Burton), or others a team will be better than them (MK Dons).
I was meaning more along the lines of conceding the second goal at Burton, in light of the 1st one, of getting over run in midfield last night, of the right hand side being exposed etc. The subtle little things that if amatures can see it why can't the senior pros both see it and react to it?
I've only watched the last two matches on the Pass, so I admittedly have limited experience of the current crop of players but I'm not going to let that or my lack of footballing nous stop me from putting my twopenneth in.
We all need to remember that just a short time ago, our squad wasn't worthy of the name and IF the club had survived, we were going down for sure.
Thomas saved the club but getting a competitive squad together in the circumstances was a tall order. Galleon and Bowyer managed that and all credit to them. The only thing I couldn't understand at the time was why we didn't go for replacement for Lyle.
Based on my very limited experience, here are observations on players that have caught my eye for whatever reason.
I like Amos, Famewo, Washington, Smyth, Matthews and Aneke. (edit I forgot to include Morgan)
I think that Maddison could do a good job for us if used better or with different players around him.
Gilbey does too many things wrong and am not impressed.
Bogle is a waste of space and brings nothing to the team, his first touch is dreadful, can't hold the ball up and bring others into play and appears to have no instinct for goal. So many moves broke down because he lost the ball. I wouldn't play him again by choice.
Of course, I've not watched a match with our first choice CB pairing which may change things significantly, but I certainly don't see a team going straight up in a top 2 position. I also wonder if Bowyer has fallen out with some of the players looking at the body language.
Comments
It would be quiet when your midfield gets run over time and time again and 90% of the fans know it’s only a matter of time. I love the man but that’s fucking poor form.
Only bright spark was Maddison, if we had a target man we could have maybe nicked a result, unfortunately we don't.
Terrible game to watch
A good test for Bowyer. Curbs’ greatest skill was early tactical changes when things went wrong, both during games and between games. Unless some fundamental changes are made more defeats are on the cards.
Credit to MK Dons who played very well.
Bowyer was pissed off, frustrated and lashing out. I'm sure when he's calmed down he'll realise his mistakes and might even issue a apology.
Bowyer is well aware what we've been through, he's been through a lot of it with us!! He could've walked away at any point over the past year and we'd have been totally fucked, but he stuck with us so despite a few poor comments last night, he's still well in credit for me.
He obviously could've just said 'that was rubbish and i apologise to the fans who turned up', but i think perhaps the frustration of being outplayed led him to be too honest. Make no mistake, he will have been fuming at that performance and result last night.
Stop tinkering with the side and play players in their best position.
No more playing full backs at centre half.
And instead of pointing the finger at 2k fans who sat in the freezing cold for about 4 hours.
Just admit that for once you got it completely wrong.
I think we flatter to deceive with these little triangles in and around our defence via Watson, and to be honest, a lot of people said Washington was one of the only players to come out of the game with any credit, but he didn’t really do anything on the ball when he came short.
I really think Bowyer needs to work out was his best XI looks like and the style of play he wants to adopt. We have a big squad, but we don’t have quality. We can’t rotate like Guardiola can at Man City, because we don’t have the talent. I mean even Klopp with all his available talent seems to pick a fairy consistent line up when he doesn’t have injuries.
look at two seasons ago. That midfield 4 of Bielik, Cullen, Aribo and Williams was fairly settled for the most part. Pratley may come in from time to time, but it was a settled unit. Until we get that then we’re going to continue to turn in performances like we did last night
I appreciate Gilbey has only just come back from injury, but the jury’s still out for me on his ability. Apart from the run toward the end of the first half, I thought he was anonymous. We need Famewo and Inniss back, that’s for sure. The only worry I have is when they’re both back is Bowyer’s fetish for Pratley and Watson in the middle.
i think we have big challenges that we need to address if we want to get out of this league
"There we are Lee, we have faith in you, sign this 3 year contract. You are the man to lead us forward, we have patience and will give you time".
Lets all be honest at the start of the season we could easily have found ourselves in the position Wigan are in. We aren't. We are 4th.
Bowyer has SOME questions to answer re tactics and motivation of the players. With the probable exception of Amos and Morgan EVERY player is having too many bad games. By that I mean below their par. Individually they are all better than that, and have shown it at times already this season.
For a team that had so many experienced players in it, probably approaching 4000 professional games, there is a real lack of leadership on the pitch. Can't they see it and react to it?
I don't honestly think a single on of them is "here for the money", they are here to play.
Charlie Barker is not the answer. He is an U18 who came in, because of the "situation" and did OK. In fact he did better than OK for such a young inexperienced player. Being honest though if he was a 25 year old signing he would probably get a lot more critiscm, and it's right he doesn't. But he isn't a Gomez, a Bowyer or a Shelvey. He is one for the future, not the now. On the other hand what is Mingi doing at the club, being that much older, if he can't even get on the bench when we have no center halves at all?
Lastly it's very damming of Bowyer, and his staff, that the team was playing better when they weren't training and playing as a scratch team every 3 or 4 days. Something isn't right. Hopefully Bowyer can sort that out because I really want him to succeed after everything he has been through.
Cant remember being so disappointed in a non-Millwall game for ages.
It seems to be a default fan theory that when you team lose a game its because they lacked desire or didn't want it more than the opposition. I think fans struggle to appreciate that players are human and some days they will just perform badly (Burton), or others a team will be better than them (MK Dons).
Well off the pace last night, beaten by the better side whose use of triangles and quick movement in midfield made us look poor.
Gutted.
It is worrying to have played so poorly against both Burton and MK Dons. Don't seem to be many positives. The 'easy' fixtures are the ones we are losing.
We all need to remember that just a short time ago, our squad wasn't worthy of the name and IF the club had survived, we were going down for sure.
Thomas saved the club but getting a competitive squad together in the circumstances was a tall order. Galleon and Bowyer managed that and all credit to them. The only thing I couldn't understand at the time was why we didn't go for replacement for Lyle.
Based on my very limited experience, here are observations on players that have caught my eye for whatever reason.
I like Amos, Famewo, Washington, Smyth, Matthews and Aneke. (edit I forgot to include Morgan)
I think that Maddison could do a good job for us if used better or with different players around him.
Gilbey does too many things wrong and am not impressed.
Bogle is a waste of space and brings nothing to the team, his first touch is dreadful, can't hold the ball up and bring others into play and appears to have no instinct for goal. So many moves broke down because he lost the ball. I wouldn't play him again by choice.
Of course, I've not watched a match with our first choice CB pairing which may change things significantly, but I certainly don't see a team going straight up in a top 2 position. I also wonder if Bowyer has fallen out with some of the players looking at the body language.