I've only watched the last two matches on the Pass, so I admittedly have limited experience of the current crop of players but I'm not going to let that or my lack of footballing nous stop me from putting my twopenneth in.
We all need to remember that just a short time ago, our squad wasn't worthy of the name and IF the club had survived, we were going down for sure.
Thomas saved the club but getting a competitive squad together in the circumstances was a tall order. Galleon and Bowyer managed that and all credit to them. The only thing I couldn't understand at the time was why we didn't go for replacement for Lyle.
Based on my very limited experience, here are observations on players that have caught my eye for whatever reason.
I like Amos, Famewo, Washington, Smyth, Matthews and Aneke. (edit I forgot to include Morgan)
I think that Maddison could do a good job for us if used better or with different players around him.
Gilbey does too many things wrong and am not impressed.
Bogle is a waste of space and brings nothing to the team, his first touch is dreadful, can't hold the ball up and bring others into play and appears to have no instinct for goal. So many moves broke down because he lost the ball. I wouldn't play him again by choice.
Of course, I've not watched a match with our first choice CB pairing which may change things significantly, but I certainly don't see a team going straight up in a top 2 position. I also wonder if Bowyer has fallen out with some of the players looking at the body language.
I’ve seen all the league games except Northampton. I would agree with the players you’ve singled out for praise. Add to that Maatsen who is a real talent.
However for me what has really undone us are the injuries to Famewo and Mcinniss. As well as being specialist CBs, in the short time they played together they developed a real understanding to work together as a unit. But also they gave the team a much more noticeable physicality which it seems you need in this league. Add that to the presence they had in the opposition’s area at corners and free kicks, you can see why we have been much less impressive since they’ve been out.
@PragueAddick, that looks like detention for Bows and the coaching team:
"we injured him" - write this on the physio wall 50 times, per injured player in training.
That's not my take at all. By "we" I mean the Club. The Club that didn't have a Championship level backroom set up in the Championship because, Duchatelet. And so obviously had an even worse setup after that, because Southall, Nimer,Farnell, Elliott. And which recently felt moved to part company with its head of medical.
I'll certainly be interested to hear Thomas take on the situation in more detial at the Q&A next week. It's already clear he is taking an interest. But you can't just bring in a whole new medical fitness personnel and regime just like that, any more than you can sign another Lyle Taylor, 4 weeks into the season, on £1.5/week.
But then we're not in the Championship now, I doubt Burton and MKD have massive medical departments either. Indeed the side which seems to have lots of injuries at the moment is Ipswich, a team you'd expect to have better facilities than most in this division!
Those are reasonable points and I'm always conscious than when it comes to injuries most fans (including me) do not bother to check how our relative injury list and frequency looks.
However you've got to admit that injuring all four centrebacks, three outside competitive action, is quite the achievement.
I'd also point out that right throughout the Duchatelet nightmare, I was regularly expressing concern on here that he was running down the medical side because he was determined to be businesslike and "cut costs" without having any understanding of what costs are more fixed than he realised, or wanted to believe. Where we are now, without a medical head, is the culmination of years of under-financing. If you were in the field and already made a name for yourself would you have chosen Charlton as an employer in those years?
Anyway my main point stands. If you were Bowyer, or any manager, you'd be tearing your hair out at that list of injuries, especially after the first few weeks of teetering on financial collapse and then apparent salvation. At the same time he's got fans who want him to play the high-press game that he played himself, but at the same time tell him that the injuries must be his fault because he's training them too hard. Or something. Anything to lash out at an easy visible target, especially now that the target, in his frustration, said something he should not have said.
100% support for LB. I think we all expected too much last night; both us fans and the football management. 2000 fans spread around the ground, wearing masks, can’t possibly generate the atmosphere of 2000 packed at one end. Those that I know who were there said it felt flat. And the football didn’t help, obviously! We’re still well-placed in the top six and I would put money on us coming back with a win on Saturday. COYR!
'I’ve praised the fans from day one. The players have been on the road – Saturday-Tuesday-Saturday – all of them away games and they were tired last night. I watched the game and we looked off it. They [MK] looked a lot sharper than us. '
I find this sentence very worrying. Surely Bowyer can see that last night was nothing to do with tiredness, and MK Dons being sharper and everything to do with them being a better footballing side then us.
We could have had a week off and they played at the weekend and there movment would have still ran rings around us. You don't beat teams who are that fluid and well drilled by lining up in a rigid formation with no movement. You've got to put them on the back foot with a quick press, and then recycling the ball quickly when you have it.
The players were tired?!
They had a three week break recently (which as expected ended all the momentum) when he chose not to play Plymouth and Rochdale. He can’t have it both ways.
Even the commentators were talking about taking players off last night to rest them for Saturday.
I bet if you ask Aneke and Williams they will say they could play 90 minutes, three times a week.
I liked this sentence and maybe that is all that should have been said yday: “When you sing a player’s name you’ll be amazed what it does to them. It makes them push that little bit more. It shouldn’t – but that’s what it does.”
I think we have to realise that Bow's isn't the sharpest geezer with his words. He's going round in a loop and not realising that the 2k let into the ground wasn't a raffle for the loudest section of the fan base. He might be in for a shock over Winter if we struggle to hit 2k fans for a game, but football should not overlook the "new normal" and think the number of fans purchasing a stream are ready to jump back into the ground.
Thomas will probably be accompanied with a Communication and PR coach on his next flight :-)
Glad he's said this after his previous comments. Fair play to him.
He's talking shit here though as he has had a pop at the fans lol. Just cos he says he hasn't doesn't he hasn't. It's in black and white what he said after the game
Glad he's said this after his previous comments. Fair play to him.
He's talking shit here though as he has had a pop at the fans lol. Just cos he says he hasn't doesn't he hasn't. It's in black and white what he said after the game
He's acknowledged it by saying this - he's not the world's greatest speaker so I'm happy to let it go. If he says it again it might be a different matter.
I think he will turn it round too. It would be helpful if he identifies what needs improving as it definitely isn't any of those 2k fans. But as you say, things get said in the heat of the moment and a good performance on Saturday and these things get forgotten quickly.
Maybe a point will come when we are fresher than other teams. It doesn't look like it tonight, but it is a long season.
But MK Dons have played one more game than us in all comps, have a smaller squad than we have and had 24 hours less time to get over their last game as theirs was on Sunday.
I can see what you mean. The reason we chop and change so much must be to maintain freshness when the games come thick and fast. I think Bowyer has told us so, so I was speculating on when we may see the advantage of this policy.
I've only watched the last two matches on the Pass, so I admittedly have limited experience of the current crop of players but I'm not going to let that or my lack of footballing nous stop me from putting my twopenneth in.
We all need to remember that just a short time ago, our squad wasn't worthy of the name and IF the club had survived, we were going down for sure.
Thomas saved the club but getting a competitive squad together in the circumstances was a tall order. Galleon and Bowyer managed that and all credit to them. The only thing I couldn't understand at the time was why we didn't go for replacement for Lyle.
Based on my very limited experience, here are observations on players that have caught my eye for whatever reason.
I like Amos, Famewo, Washington, Smyth, Matthews and Aneke. (edit I forgot to include Morgan)
I think that Maddison could do a good job for us if used better or with different players around him.
Gilbey does too many things wrong and am not impressed.
Bogle is a waste of space and brings nothing to the team, his first touch is dreadful, can't hold the ball up and bring others into play and appears to have no instinct for goal. So many moves broke down because he lost the ball. I wouldn't play him again by choice.
Of course, I've not watched a match with our first choice CB pairing which may change things significantly, but I certainly don't see a team going straight up in a top 2 position. I also wonder if Bowyer has fallen out with some of the players looking at the body language.
I’ve seen all the league games except Northampton. I would agree with the players you’ve singled out for praise. Add to that Maatsen who is a real talent.
However for me what has really undone us are the injuries to Famewo and Mcinniss. As well as being specialist CBs, in the short time they played together they developed a real understanding to work together as a unit. But also they gave the team a much more noticeable physicality which it seems you need in this league. Add that to the presence they had in the opposition’s area at corners and free kicks, you can see why we have been much less impressive since they’ve been out.
To be fair, we were winning games without pulling up trees, but by being impossible to score against before they got injured.
They were probably sharper than us as they have been playing as a TEAM for a number of games & not being rotated or rested after 70 mins. Good teams evolve when they get into a rythem & gel......that can't happen when you are playing with a different player in front of you week in & week out. Pick your best 11 & stick with it.
100% support for LB. I think we all expected too much last night; both us fans and the football management. 2000 fans spread around the ground, wearing masks, can’t possibly generate the atmosphere of 2000 packed at one end. Those that I know who were there said it felt flat. And the football didn’t help, obviously! We’re still well-placed in the top six and I would put money on us coming back with a win on Saturday. COYR!
I wasn't expectimg anything from the crowd, especially not to win the game for us. I did expect the team to have more than 1 shot in target all night though. Therein lies the problem. If you only test the goalkeeper once over 90 mins you are only going to score at best 1 goal. Have 10 shots on target you are likely to score more than 1.
I have watched all the streamed games other than Burton and thought the performance last night was abysmal.I dont blame the defence which, whilst makeshift, has done well, however the lack of movement in midfield makes the build up too predictable and in particular Bogle and Washington must be the tamest strike force in league1. Watching an unheralded MK Dons side totally humiliate us made very uncomfortable watching and LB needs to evaluate his team and tactics quickly otherwise promotion will be a pipe dream.I would always start Chuks and Smythe when fit and believe he must persist with Maddison for his creativity. We know Purrington is not good enough but he was only in yesterday due to suspension.I see no point in playing Bogle at all as he is a complete liability and Washington is not much better. Are there any youngsters that could come in to give us some movement up front?Everything just too static and so re-evaluation of tactics is needed
Well said @PragueAddick, well said. I can't believe that so many have a go at Bows. What he said about the fans has been taken out of context. He was disappointed that there wasn't more noise, that's all. I thought the same but I could understand it: sitting in the cold for over an hour before kick-off, separated from normal singing friends and family, wearing masks, social distancing. It doesn't add up to make a party atmosphere. Bows just hadn't thought it through and is too honest. I love him for being the down to earth guy he is. I don't want people to force him to change. Someone even used the c word for him. He doesn't deserve that. Stay as you are bows: the vast majority of us love you.
I have watched all the streamed games other than Burton and thought the performance last night was abysmal.I dont blame the defence which, whilst makeshift, has done well, however the lack of movement in midfield makes the build up too predictable and in particular Bogle and Washington must be the tamest strike force in league1. Watching an unheralded MK Dons side totally humiliate us made very uncomfortable watching and LB needs to evaluate his team and tactics quickly otherwise promotion will be a pipe dream.I would always start Chuks and Smythe when fit and believe he must persist with Maddison for his creativity. We know Purrington is not good enough but he was only in yesterday due to suspension.I see no point in playing Bogle at all as he is a complete liability and Washington is not much better. Are there any youngsters that could come in to give us some movement up front?Everything just too static and so re-evaluation of tactics is needed
We love to make strikers and forward players scapegoats, don't we? It's something ingrained within us.
Let's be honest, that was an abysmal performance last night. Regardless of injuries. That's Bowers team and he did say we'd never have a repeat of Burton the other week! Well, that could easily have been 4-0 and I wouldn't have had any complaints! Having a dig at the fans, which is exactly what he did despite his back tracking, is bad form. For me the problem was in midfield last night. No width, no pace, no urgency, nothing. And our full backs were ripped to pieces as they had nothing in front of them. Hopefully we can get back to playing players in their proper positions soon and we'll look a lot better. Its a long season and apart from Hull no one looks like they might smash it
It was all my fault. I went to the game and kept passing it backwards to try and build up a move from defence - even though after an hour it still wasn't working, I carried on doing it.
Well said @PragueAddick, well said. I can't believe that so many have a go at Bows. What he said about the fans has been taken out of context. He was disappointed that there wasn't more noise, that's all. I thought the same but I could understand it: sitting in the cold for over an hour before kick-off, separated from normal singing friends and family, wearing masks, social distancing. It doesn't add up to make a party atmosphere. Bows just hadn't thought it through and is too honest. I love him for being the down to earth guy he is. I don't want people to force him to change. Someone even used the c word for him. He doesn't deserve that. Stay as you are bows: the vast majority of us love you.
But there was no need to say anything about the crowd.....apart from the team thanked them for turning up in the cold, wet & under very unusual times. No-one asked him about the "lack of singing" or not "roaring them on". Bows needs to wise up.....and fast.
I thought the same but I could understand it: sitting in the cold for over an hour before kick-off,
I’ve seen this mentioned a few times? We got to the ground at 7:40 and got to our seats just before kick off. An hour sitting doing nothing would have been too much for my boredom threshold-I think I would have left at half time...
I thought the same but I could understand it: sitting in the cold for over an hour before kick-off,
I’ve seen this mentioned a few times? We got to the ground at 7:40 and got to our seats just before kick off. An hour sitting doing nothing would have been too much for my boredom threshold-I think I would have left at half time...
Fans attending Premier League matches will have to wear a face covering at all times to protect against Covid-19 transmission and will be asked not to sing or chant excessively. "
Bows will be over the moon we aren't in the Premier League!
I thought the same but I could understand it: sitting in the cold for over an hour before kick-off,
I’ve seen this mentioned a few times? We got to the ground at 7:40 and got to our seats just before kick off. An hour sitting doing nothing would have been too much for my boredom threshold-I think I would have left at half time...
We did miss out on the free hot chocolate though.
What was your given time though?
Did we have one? As I mentioned on another thread, me going was extremely last minute so didn’t even realise we had to get there at a specific time. Probably my bad then but worked out pretty well as everyone was already in the ground and we were on the end of a row.
I thought the same but I could understand it: sitting in the cold for over an hour before kick-off,
I’ve seen this mentioned a few times? We got to the ground at 7:40 and got to our seats just before kick off. An hour sitting doing nothing would have been too much for my boredom threshold-I think I would have left at half time...
We did miss out on the free hot chocolate though.
What was your given time though?
Did we have one? As I mentioned on another thread, me going was extremely last minute so didn’t even realise we had to get there at a specific time. Probably my bad then but worked out pretty well as everyone was already in the ground and we were on the end of a row.
The time was at the top of your e-ticket, the slots I've seen were 6, 6:45 and 7:15
I thought the same but I could understand it: sitting in the cold for over an hour before kick-off,
I’ve seen this mentioned a few times? We got to the ground at 7:40 and got to our seats just before kick off. An hour sitting doing nothing would have been too much for my boredom threshold-I think I would have left at half time...
We did miss out on the free hot chocolate though.
What was your given time though?
Did we have one? As I mentioned on another thread, me going was extremely last minute so didn’t even realise we had to get there at a specific time. Probably my bad then but worked out pretty well as everyone was already in the ground and we were on the end of a row.
The time was at the top of your e-ticket, the slots I've seen were 6, 6:45 and 7:15
6!! Wow, I feel for those guys -that’s the best part of five hours of your lives you won’t be getting back.
Yeah, I totally missed that. Will keep in mind if I go back during these times but, to be honest, it’s probably put me off even more. It’s also made me realise how dependent I am on alcohol (before going to football).
It is clear that our squad is lacking bite up front. Many are pleading for a striker in January but can we realistically bring in a promotion boosting striker in January? If our squad is more or less full and the budget is almost spent, who do we think we are going to sign? Messi?
If the league finance cap results in us looking at strikers for £2k a week, or thereabouts, we are fucked as every other club in league one has the same budget. We need to overhaul the current squad and to do that we need to let players go that we've just signed, with no guarantee that the replacements will gell and be any better for the team. It has been mentioned on forums that clubs should be doing their scouting already as deals for new players 'should' be sewn up long before the window actually opens. One commentator stated that starting to look in January is already way too late and the best will be missed.
People keep saying that our squad is the mustard, but is it? It was cobbled together at last minute, with a who's who of hand-me-down players that were not wanted elsewhere, hence they came to our basket case. Our reputation hasn't been all that lately so they couldn't really be expecting to believe all of the hype.
We are doing fantastic to be in with a shout, after the shit show of our summer. Thomas is passionate about our club and wants the success that we all crave, but it isn't a foregone that it will come just because we all want it. Do Sunderland fans believe that they are better than League One, you bet, but they are having shit sandwich served up pretty often.
If we can keep in the pack who knows what will happen in May. Expecting these players to run away with the league is very optimistic and probably unrealistic.
I trust Bowyer to do the right thing for the club and it's fans, even it is isn't as successful as we might hope.
Well said @PragueAddick, well said. I can't believe that so many have a go at Bows. What he said about the fans has been taken out of context. He was disappointed that there wasn't more noise, that's all. I thought the same but I could understand it: sitting in the cold for over an hour before kick-off, separated from normal singing friends and family, wearing masks, social distancing. It doesn't add up to make a party atmosphere. Bows just hadn't thought it through and is too honest. I love him for being the down to earth guy he is. I don't want people to force him to change. Someone even used the c word for him. He doesn't deserve that. Stay as you are bows: the vast majority of us love you.
But there was no need to say anything about the crowd.....apart from the team thanked them for turning up in the cold, wet & under very unusual times. No-one asked him about the "lack of singing" or not "roaring them on". Bows needs to wise up.....and fast.
Yep fully agree with this. His words weren't taken out of context, he said that the fans should have been singing more. For what reason did he have to dig the fans out other than being frustrated at a shit performance? Really don't get how people can think his comments were acceptable...
Watching the game last night I found myself not really knowing who the different players were without checking the number on the back of their shirt.
Thats not common for me and I think it might be because in midfield we have three players who are so similar in the way they play. Gilbey, Shinney and Morgan have slight variations but ultimately all three are quite generic ‘all rounders’.
The challenge with that is that they can be quite easy to nullify. We have too many ‘Jack of all trade’ type players in midfield and attack, and not enough real specialists.
Same goes for Washington and Bogle. I don’t think either are terrible, but they’re just quite average and don’t have a stand out trait that we can build around. Chuks Aneke is a world apart from them in that sense.
Comments
However for me what has really undone us are the injuries to Famewo and Mcinniss. As well as being specialist CBs, in the short time they played together they developed a real understanding to work together as a unit. But also they gave the team a much more noticeable physicality which it seems you need in this league. Add that to the presence they had in the opposition’s area at corners and free kicks, you can see why we have been much less impressive since they’ve been out.
However you've got to admit that injuring all four centrebacks, three outside competitive action, is quite the achievement.
I'd also point out that right throughout the Duchatelet nightmare, I was regularly expressing concern on here that he was running down the medical side because he was determined to be businesslike and "cut costs" without having any understanding of what costs are more fixed than he realised, or wanted to believe. Where we are now, without a medical head, is the culmination of years of under-financing. If you were in the field and already made a name for yourself would you have chosen Charlton as an employer in those years?
Anyway my main point stands. If you were Bowyer, or any manager, you'd be tearing your hair out at that list of injuries, especially after the first few weeks of teetering on financial collapse and then apparent salvation. At the same time he's got fans who want him to play the high-press game that he played himself, but at the same time tell him that the injuries must be his fault because he's training them too hard. Or something. Anything to lash out at an easy visible target, especially now that the target, in his frustration, said something he should not have said.
“When you sing a player’s name you’ll be amazed what it does to them. It makes them push that little bit more. It shouldn’t – but that’s what it does.”
I think we have to realise that Bow's isn't the sharpest geezer with his words. He's going round in a loop and not realising that the 2k let into the ground wasn't a raffle for the loudest section of the fan base. He might be in for a shock over Winter if we struggle to hit 2k fans for a game, but football should not overlook the "new normal" and think the number of fans purchasing a stream are ready to jump back into the ground.
Thomas will probably be accompanied with a Communication and PR coach on his next flight :-)
It's not bloody rocket science Bows !!!
I can't believe that so many have a go at Bows. What he said about the fans has been taken out of context. He was disappointed that there wasn't more noise, that's all. I thought the same but I could understand it: sitting in the cold for over an hour before kick-off, separated from normal singing friends and family, wearing masks, social distancing. It doesn't add up to make a party atmosphere. Bows just hadn't thought it through and is too honest. I love him for being the down to earth guy he is. I don't want people to force him to change. Someone even used the c word for him. He doesn't deserve that. Stay as you are bows: the vast majority of us love you.
I went to the game and kept passing it backwards to try and build up a move from defence - even though after an hour it still wasn't working, I carried on doing it.
What was your given time though?
"
Bows will be over the moon we aren't in the Premier League!
If the league finance cap results in us looking at strikers for £2k a week, or thereabouts, we are fucked as every other club in league one has the same budget. We need to overhaul the current squad and to do that we need to let players go that we've just signed, with no guarantee that the replacements will gell and be any better for the team. It has been mentioned on forums that clubs should be doing their scouting already as deals for new players 'should' be sewn up long before the window actually opens. One commentator stated that starting to look in January is already way too late and the best will be missed.
People keep saying that our squad is the mustard, but is it? It was cobbled together at last minute, with a who's who of hand-me-down players that were not wanted elsewhere, hence they came to our basket case. Our reputation hasn't been all that lately so they couldn't really be expecting to believe all of the hype.
We are doing fantastic to be in with a shout, after the shit show of our summer. Thomas is passionate about our club and wants the success that we all crave, but it isn't a foregone that it will come just because we all want it. Do Sunderland fans believe that they are better than League One, you bet, but they are having shit sandwich served up pretty often.
If we can keep in the pack who knows what will happen in May. Expecting these players to run away with the league is very optimistic and probably unrealistic.
I trust Bowyer to do the right thing for the club and it's fans, even it is isn't as successful as we might hope.
Thats not common for me and I think it might be because in midfield we have three players who are so similar in the way they play. Gilbey, Shinney and Morgan have slight variations but ultimately all three are quite generic ‘all rounders’.
Same goes for Washington and Bogle. I don’t think either are terrible, but they’re just quite average and don’t have a stand out trait that we can build around. Chuks Aneke is a world apart from them in that sense.