It isn't the fact we go defensive, it is that time and time again we show this approach kicks US in the teeth. It may not kick different teams in the teeth but we have the evidence it kicks us recorded and in front of us all. Bowyer has that too and it is no good him blaming the players every time it happens. If it keeps happening you stop it!
I think the problem could be that Bowyer is too proud to accept fans are right on this. He is invested in making this work rather than go for another goal because if that works for us, it makes him look like an idiot. He could make it work, but might need new players and months to do so. Surely this is not sensible in any way.
I had fewer problems with the Purrington/JFC swap as that wasn't a totally negative move, as it enabled Maatsen to move further forward
It was the Matthews/Maddison swap which was completely and unnecessarily negative, as it left us both without creativity in midfield, but also fresh legs, with our midfield at that stage (Watson, Gilbey and Maatsen) all playing the full 90, ditto Washington. Williams would have supplied both
And once again I have to ask the question, is Levitt only on the bench because contractually he has to be? Surely fresh legs after 70 minutes would have been an improvement on a player like Gilbey, still recovering his full fitness?
Inniss or Famewo clear that corner like we did during the run of clean sheets:
Problem is they are out injured so a different approach is needed now. Morgan and Shinnie as straight swops for Maddison and JFC during the match if available would've kept the pressure up as long as the cafc defense don't retreat into our own penalty area.
When/If we have all our midfielders fit we will know if this negative default postion is a permanent or temporary situation for Lee Bowyer.
They were the exact same awful Swindon who we smashed earlier in the season, in the game TS attended. It was either a friendly or a cup game.
Yeah and many of our fans are not capable of more than one sentence thought- free vents, which they mysteriously forget about when we go and win 5-2 in the next match.
I genuinely want teams to score early against us and for us to be losing at halftime.....
Oh no you don't. Thats the last thing you want. Have you seen the stats ? We've not won from going 1-0 down since the play-off final. I believe we've played over 30 games since then in which we've let in the first goal & we've not gone on to win any of them.
For those doubting whether this was in Bowyer's DNA all along, remember the playoff semi-final when we went two up in the tie and then sat back? Yeah, by the end of that we were going out but for a goalkeeping error
There were two play off semi-final ties. The first was one our best away performances of the season. We went two up, but did Bow told them to"sit back"? Joe Aribo wasn't listening then, because his 2nd half display was a master-class.He was dancing through them for fun, and on 86" a sublime run saw him dink a little cross in, which Taylor was a nanometre away from converting, almost on the goal line. That would have been 3. Tie over. But a minute later we fell asleep a bit and they nicked one. Because, 3rd division defenders...
If we had Aribo and that midfield yesterday, we had someone to give the ball to in their half who could keep hold of the bloody thing, and if he couldn't move it forward he'd soon have Cullen or Bielik arriving to give him a hand. Not to mention Taylor showing for it all over the pitch and still managing to get hold of a pass that goes slightly wayward. Unlike Washington who complains that the midfield don't pick up all his brilliant early runs, but when he finally gets the ball often makes bad decisions. The number of times you could've said that about Taylor you could count on one hand, including last season before he got injured.
I reckon that game yesterday was probably the least amount of saves Amos has had all season , yes he had some catching practise from crosses. Swindon are shit , make no mistake, they were there for the taking and we failed to put them to the sword, as a one off yep ok but it isn’t we have looked average most of the time and don’t appear to be improving as the season goes on against some of the jankest teams we have played against in any of our ridiculous number of seasons we are spending in tier 3 !
Probably one of the few times other than when we win people are echoing the same comments. Negativity & naivety from Bowyer unfortunately. I am starting to question him when I haven't before. I don't want him gone cause I don't want us to be that club/fanbase, but every player he has sold or lost has played fine without Bowyer, in a lot of cases even better. I feel like we had a lot of ready made players but we just didn't realise it at the time. Once again the main concern is that on a human level he is starting to annoy me, severely an all.
I am fond of Lee cause we have had some results under him and he was one of the few bright lights in the Roland era, but every post match interview his comments are annoying me. I can accept something along the lines of ''I set us up wrong, I am still learning. Before Thomas I was always hand tied and have adopted a siege like mentality because of it, my subs need to be more positive because we are conceding late on a lot, the stats don't lie''. Instead we get x player did this wrong, it's X players fault, bad refs etc. Takes no accountibility for what is his fault.
I'll try and take the positives, if we win our game in hand we are back in the top6 but I'll be honest I feel negative, watched us play scared against MK Dons, Shrewsbury, Burton and now Swindon. 3 of which are in the relegation zone, the other bottom half. I see this ending in tears I can't lie
I agree with the last statement, I don't think he's going to last the season. I actually think he'd have done well if he got the West Brom job this week, firing them up and getting them playing. But I'm not convinced he has the ability to get a team dominating the game when they are good enough to.
Very much starting to believe Bowyer is a backs against the wall manager and that's as far as it goes. It was probably the quality of Cullen, Aribo, Gallagher, Bielik etc that made it look like we could play ball that's my concern. They're all doing well away from us, not sure on Cullen
We've got players of real quality now. Maybe not quite as good as those, but players like Maddison, Gilbey and JFC have the ability to control the game against the likes of Swindon (genuinely no disrespect intended).
I can't agree with this. The only one of those 3 near the level of the old league 1 team is Maddison but even then it's only because of his vision and passing, as an all rounder he isn't near Aribo, Bielik is Cullen's level. Not a fan of bashing our players but I think JFC is completely overrated, similar to how Kashi and Clarke were and Gilbey looks like a lower level league 1 player which is exactly where we signed him from.
I don't think we have any players of real quality, I don't look at any of our players and think, 'he gets in most championship sides' whereas I've thought that about a few players from previous seasons
If we could only sign one player in January (that might be the case budget wise), which position would you want?.
I feel our forwards are not great, so a finisher that can play 90 minutes is essential. Our midfield is ok when fit and same for defence, but to have a midfield playmaker that could run at people and play the killer ball (regularly) would be invaluable. Sadly our injury list is causing a headache again. Just a thought, what if Chuks gets injured again. Without even a sub striker to bring on, we are totally screwed. Can we please just sign somebody who can play for 90 minutes every game, not month. Saw a stat the other week that one of Millwall's midfielders had played every minute of EVERY game for 133 games. WTF have we got to do to get somebody that can play 90 minutes let alone over 10,000, all at a standard that keeps them getting picked. Didn't Cullen do the same during our promotion season. More like that please Santa (Thomas).
I have been critical but have not called for Bowyer to be sacked. I have merely consistently stated he should not have a free pass. If we see the same tactics and outcome in one more game in the next few games, I will have tipped over the edge.
What the delusional arse lickers have to accept when they blame the quality of the squad for today is two things. Firstly the lack of quality Swindon possessed. They were basically shit. Secondly, the tactics of replacing midfielders for defenders brings pressure on you no matter how shit your opponents are. They will try to score and push forward if they are a goal behind and you need to use this against poor, poor teams like Swindon.
Bowyer in his pre-match interview seemed to focus praise on the first half performance against Wimbledon which tells me that he doesn't understand what shit is. We were excellent in the second half but his focus was when we struggled. You have to question what he is on. Seriously!
For curiosity sake who are the "delusional arse
lickers" that you have in mind if you don't mind saying?
While I see a lot of arse licking on this forum if I commented on it I would
say who they are. Try to be tolerant - not easy sometimes....
I think we very slightly overstate how good our midfield was 2 years ago. Aribo was exceptionally skillful but could often go missing a bit - Maddison is a very good analogue (and Williams has always been Williams). Bielik was powerful and could pass but often rash and inexperienced - Morgan, weirdly, is kind of in a similar bracket these days (when fit) and Pratley can do all of Bielik's dirty stuff - sure, Bielik combined it all in one player, but these are rose-tinted memories considering he gave fouls away for fun. Watson has nowhere near Cullen's energy but is probably slightly better on the ball than he is. We had an excellent L1 midfield back then and a very good one now, with loads of options. We've been able to leave a Wales international on the bench for almost the whole time.
I have been critical but have not called for Bowyer to be sacked. I have merely consistently stated he should not have a free pass. If we see the same tactics and outcome in one more game in the next few games, I will have tipped over the edge.
What the delusional arse lickers have to accept when they blame the quality of the squad for today is two things. Firstly the lack of quality Swindon possessed. They were basically shit. Secondly, the tactics of replacing midfielders for defenders brings pressure on you no matter how shit your opponents are. They will try to score and push forward if they are a goal behind and you need to use this against poor, poor teams like Swindon.
Bowyer in his pre-match interview seemed to focus praise on the first half performance against Wimbledon which tells me that he doesn't understand what shit is. We were excellent in the second half but his focus was when we struggled. You have to question what he is on. Seriously!
For curiosity sake who are the "delusional arse
lickers" that you have in mind if you don't mind saying?
While I see a lot of arse licking on this forum if I commented on it I would
say who they are. Try to be tolerant - not easy sometimes....
I would say those that qualify for the title, without naming names, are those that ignore what is clearly there for all to see. It isn't even debatable for me, it is there on record. The only way you can miss it is if your view is of Bowyer's butt cheeks!
This is how i see it and please beaware i have not seen charlton play live or on valley pass for ayear.
We have a new owner who is proud of buying Charlton Athletic,and wants to see The Valley full. He longs for that day.
He has a manager that has an upbringing of Charlton and understands the club in full.
Both the owner and manager want what is best for the club but if the club do not have the players that can perform week in week out something has to give.
You move the manager out or you move some players out.
Thomas must have faith in Bowyer as i do, this is a learning curve and one that will be overcome.
Maybe not this season as everyone expects, but it will happen given time.
Correct owner in place yes,correct manager in place yes without a doubt, just some of the players unable to play up to a standard that is acceptable.
When we are all able to attend The Valley with owner ,manager and correct players in place there is no better place to be.
Probably one of the few times other than when we win people are echoing the same comments. Negativity & naivety from Bowyer unfortunately. I am starting to question him when I haven't before. I don't want him gone cause I don't want us to be that club/fanbase, but every player he has sold or lost has played fine without Bowyer, in a lot of cases even better. I feel like we had a lot of ready made players but we just didn't realise it at the time. Once again the main concern is that on a human level he is starting to annoy me, severely an all.
I am fond of Lee cause we have had some results under him and he was one of the few bright lights in the Roland era, but every post match interview his comments are annoying me. I can accept something along the lines of ''I set us up wrong, I am still learning. Before Thomas I was always hand tied and have adopted a siege like mentality because of it, my subs need to be more positive because we are conceding late on a lot, the stats don't lie''. Instead we get x player did this wrong, it's X players fault, bad refs etc. Takes no accountibility for what is his fault.
I'll try and take the positives, if we win our game in hand we are back in the top6 but I'll be honest I feel negative, watched us play scared against MK Dons, Shrewsbury, Burton and now Swindon. 3 of which are in the relegation zone, the other bottom half. I see this ending in tears I can't lie
I agree with the last statement, I don't think he's going to last the season. I actually think he'd have done well if he got the West Brom job this week, firing them up and getting them playing. But I'm not convinced he has the ability to get a team dominating the game when they are good enough to.
Very much starting to believe Bowyer is a backs against the wall manager and that's as far as it goes. It was probably the quality of Cullen, Aribo, Gallagher, Bielik etc that made it look like we could play ball that's my concern. They're all doing well away from us, not sure on Cullen
We've got players of real quality now. Maybe not quite as good as those, but players like Maddison, Gilbey and JFC have the ability to control the game against the likes of Swindon (genuinely no disrespect intended).
Maddison, Gilbey and JFC didn't control the game (is the bottom line). Moreover, I don't recall ever seeing Maddison, Gilbey or JFC controlling a game in a CAFC shirt (granted 2 have only "played" for less than half a season) and JFC played well last game (which he does about twice a season).
I reckon that game yesterday was probably the least amount of saves Amos has had all season , yes he had some catching practise from crosses. Swindon are shit , make no mistake, they were there for the taking and we failed to put them to the sword, as a one off yep ok but it isn’t we have looked average most of the time and don’t appear to be improving as the season goes on against some of the jankest teams we have played against in any of our ridiculous number of seasons we are spending in tier 3 !
Liven up Bowyer
I don’t want to have a SCP TS love triangle
Perfect use of jankest. Such a joy to see prose of this quality on a humble football forum.
JFC had a barnstormer in the centre of the park last time, and was moved to the right where he flounders. Inexplicable tbh
Eh - He played on the right against Wimbledon, Watson played centrally that game too?
No, Maddison was on the right. JFC was in the middle with Watson
If you're talking about the Wimbledon game, it started out as a bog-standard diamond with Watson at the base, F-C on the right, Gilbey on the left and Maddison at the tip of the diamond. Formations changed as the game went on but F-C stayed mostly on the right.
If you're saying playing a left-footed player on the right (and vice-versa with Gilbey) is strange, I agree.
JFC had a barnstormer in the centre of the park last time, and was moved to the right where he flounders. Inexplicable tbh
Eh - He played on the right against Wimbledon, Watson played centrally that game too?
No, Maddison was on the right. JFC was in the middle with Watson
If you're talking about the Wimbledon game, it started out as a bog-standard diamond with Watson at the base, F-C on the right, Gilbey on the left and Maddison at the tip of the diamond. Formations changed as the game went on but F-C stayed mostly on the right.
If you're saying playing a left-footed player on the right (and vice-versa with Gilbey) is strange, I agree.
Bowyer seems to be one of these Managers who prefers it when his players cut back in before crossing rather than getting to the line like Mark Marshall would
I think we very slightly overstate how good our midfield was 2 years ago. Aribo was exceptionally skillful but could often go missing a bit - Maddison is a very good analogue (and Williams has always been Williams). Bielik was powerful and could pass but often rash and inexperienced - Morgan, weirdly, is kind of in a similar bracket these days (when fit) and Pratley can do all of Bielik's dirty stuff - sure, Bielik combined it all in one player, but these are rose-tinted memories considering he gave fouls away for fun. Watson has nowhere near Cullen's energy but is probably slightly better on the ball than he is. We had an excellent L1 midfield back then and a very good one now, with loads of options. We've been able to leave a Wales international on the bench for almost the whole time.
Well, it is certainly true that Aribo could go missing because he was not the finished article. However the key thing is that all those players were young and one the way up. Beilik is a full international who went for £10m. Fuck knows what West Ham were thinking of but Cullen plays for Anderlecht, and Aribo plays in Europe for Rangers. By contrast Maddison was surplus to requirements at two of our current third div rivals. Watson was my MoM yesterday. He is 35.
Prague, I think Maddison refused to sign a new deal with Peterborough, much the same as Aribo with us last year. I would not have classed Aribo as surplus to requirements. He was only on loan at Hull, and refused to play beyond his contract date
Watching that 1st Swindon goal again ...... it's going to give Bowyer nightmares. Christmas came early for Swindon, gift wrapped.
Even though Swindon were keeping possession outside our box, they were going nowhere, until a cute short pass inside took Maartsen out. He was slow to recover his positioning. Pearce in the box was in position manmarking but his man Swindon (7) peeled off into the space Maartsen should have been covering.
If Pearce had gone with his player, a pathway to goal would have opened up in front of the Swindon (4) in possession - Pearce had to hold his own position and did.
Meanwhile Swindon (7) receives the ball, turns - and a chasing back Maartsen sells himself and goes to ground. The Swindon (7) takes a moment to steady himself, switches feet and shoots. At this point I'm thinking Amos could have advanced quickly off his line to make himself large or even Pratley might have came across to try and block with his body - but if Maartsen hadn't dived in, they wouldn't have had to.
My comments are meant to be constructive, so not meaning to play the blame game on such a young but talented player - but IMO Maartsen was at fault on 2 occasions leading up to the goal. He'll learn with coaching and experience - but it makes me wince how easily the Charlton defence was opened up.
I have been critical but have not called for Bowyer to be sacked. I have merely consistently stated he should not have a free pass. If we see the same tactics and outcome in one more game in the next few games, I will have tipped over the edge.
What the delusional arse lickers have to accept when they blame the quality of the squad for today is two things. Firstly the lack of quality Swindon possessed. They were basically shit. Secondly, the tactics of replacing midfielders for defenders brings pressure on you no matter how shit your opponents are. They will try to score and push forward if they are a goal behind and you need to use this against poor, poor teams like Swindon.
Bowyer in his pre-match interview seemed to focus praise on the first half performance against Wimbledon which tells me that he doesn't understand what shit is. We were excellent in the second half but his focus was when we struggled. You have to question what he is on. Seriously!
For curiosity sake who are the "delusional arse
lickers" that you have in mind if you don't mind saying?
While I see a lot of arse licking on this forum if I commented on it I would
say who they are. Try to be tolerant - not easy sometimes....
I would say those that qualify for the title, without naming names, are those that ignore what is clearly there for all to see. It isn't even debatable for me, it is there on record. The only way you can miss it is if your view is of Bowyer's butt cheeks!
I have no knowledge of Bowyer's butt cheeks but your somewhat strident and over confident answer shows that you have the view of an arse hole.
we overwhelmed wimbledon because we had 5 of our best attacking players on at the same time - they couldn't mount attacks at us because they didn't have the ball - as i've said before - take gilby or jfc off, leave everything else the same and put williams on and we win that game by about 4 or 5 goals, same as last week
I don’t think Williams is that much of a game changer. How many other games has he come on as sub and everyone has been moaning on here about him falling over and offering nothing?
there is a hell of a difference between having maddison and williams on the pitch rather than purrington and matthews (particularly when u already have 4 defenders on the pitch)
I have been critical but have not called for Bowyer to be sacked. I have merely consistently stated he should not have a free pass. If we see the same tactics and outcome in one more game in the next few games, I will have tipped over the edge.
What the delusional arse lickers have to accept when they blame the quality of the squad for today is two things. Firstly the lack of quality Swindon possessed. They were basically shit. Secondly, the tactics of replacing midfielders for defenders brings pressure on you no matter how shit your opponents are. They will try to score and push forward if they are a goal behind and you need to use this against poor, poor teams like Swindon.
Bowyer in his pre-match interview seemed to focus praise on the first half performance against Wimbledon which tells me that he doesn't understand what shit is. We were excellent in the second half but his focus was when we struggled. You have to question what he is on. Seriously!
For curiosity sake who are the "delusional arse
lickers" that you have in mind if you don't mind saying?
While I see a lot of arse licking on this forum if I commented on it I would
say who they are. Try to be tolerant - not easy sometimes....
I would say those that qualify for the title, without naming names, are those that ignore what is clearly there for all to see. It isn't even debatable for me, it is there on record. The only way you can miss it is if your view is of Bowyer's butt cheeks!
I have no knowledge of Bowyer's butt cheeks but your somewhat strident and over confident answer shows that you have the view of an arse hole.
Peace and love everybody!
The truth clearly hurts.
14 points lost last season, 4 this season. In goals conceded in 90 minutes plus extra time.
Comments
I think the problem could be that Bowyer is too proud to accept fans are right on this. He is invested in making this work rather than go for another goal because if that works for us, it makes him look like an idiot. He could make it work, but might need new players and months to do so. Surely this is not sensible in any way.
It was the Matthews/Maddison swap which was completely and unnecessarily negative, as it left us both without creativity in midfield, but also fresh legs, with our midfield at that stage (Watson, Gilbey and Maatsen) all playing the full 90, ditto Washington. Williams would have supplied both
And once again I have to ask the question, is Levitt only on the bench because contractually he has to be? Surely fresh legs after 70 minutes would have been an improvement on a player like Gilbey, still recovering his full fitness?
Problem is they are out injured so a different approach is needed now.
Morgan and Shinnie as straight swops for Maddison and JFC during the match if available would've kept the pressure up as long as the cafc defense don't retreat into our own penalty area.
When/If we have all our midfielders fit we will know if this negative default postion is a permanent or temporary situation for Lee Bowyer.
If we had Aribo and that midfield yesterday, we had someone to give the ball to in their half who could keep hold of the bloody thing, and if he couldn't move it forward he'd soon have Cullen or Bielik arriving to give him a hand. Not to mention Taylor showing for it all over the pitch and still managing to get hold of a pass that goes slightly wayward. Unlike Washington who complains that the midfield don't pick up all his brilliant early runs, but when he finally gets the ball often makes bad decisions. The number of times you could've said that about Taylor you could count on one hand, including last season before he got injured.
Swindon are shit , make no mistake, they were there for the taking and we failed to put them to the sword, as a one off yep ok but it isn’t we have looked average most of the time and don’t appear to be improving as the season goes on against some of the jankest teams we have played against in any of our ridiculous number of seasons we are spending in tier 3 !
I don’t want to have a SCP TS love triangle
I don't think we have any players of real quality, I don't look at any of our players and think, 'he gets in most championship sides' whereas I've thought that about a few players from previous seasons
I feel our forwards are not great, so a finisher that can play 90 minutes is essential. Our midfield is ok when fit and same for defence, but to have a midfield playmaker that could run at people and play the killer ball (regularly) would be invaluable. Sadly our injury list is causing a headache again. Just a thought, what if Chuks gets injured again. Without even a sub striker to bring on, we are totally screwed. Can we please just sign somebody who can play for 90 minutes every game, not month. Saw a stat the other week that one of Millwall's midfielders had played every minute of EVERY game for 133 games. WTF have we got to do to get somebody that can play 90 minutes let alone over 10,000, all at a standard that keeps them getting picked. Didn't Cullen do the same during our promotion season. More like that please Santa (Thomas).
For curiosity sake who are the "delusional arse lickers" that you have in mind if you don't mind saying?
While I see a lot of arse licking on this forum if I commented on it I would say who they are. Try to be tolerant - not easy sometimes....
We have a new owner who is proud of buying Charlton Athletic,and wants to see The Valley full. He longs for that day.
He has a manager that has an upbringing of Charlton and understands the club in full.
Both the owner and manager want what is best for the club but if the club do not have the players that can perform week in week out something has to give.
You move the manager out or you move some players out.
Thomas must have faith in Bowyer as i do, this is a learning curve and one that will be overcome.
Maybe not this season as everyone expects, but it will happen given time.
Correct owner in place yes,correct manager in place yes without a doubt, just some of the players unable to play up to a standard that is acceptable.
When we are all able to attend The Valley with owner ,manager and correct players in place there is no better place to be.
Moreover, I don't recall ever seeing Maddison, Gilbey or JFC controlling a game in a CAFC shirt (granted 2 have only "played" for less than half a season) and JFC played well last game (which he does about twice a season).
Such a joy to see prose of this quality on a humble football forum.
If you're saying playing a left-footed player on the right (and vice-versa with Gilbey) is strange, I agree.
But they never would, because of Bowyer's rotation.
And that's before the risk of picking up a long term injury in our training seesions!
Christmas came early for Swindon, gift wrapped.
Even though Swindon were keeping possession outside our box, they were going nowhere, until a cute short pass inside took Maartsen out.
He was slow to recover his positioning. Pearce in the box was in position manmarking but his man Swindon (7) peeled off into the space Maartsen should have been covering.
If Pearce had gone with his player, a pathway to goal would have opened up in front of the Swindon (4) in possession - Pearce had to hold his own position and did.
Meanwhile Swindon (7) receives the ball, turns - and a chasing back Maartsen sells himself and goes to ground.
The Swindon (7) takes a moment to steady himself, switches feet and shoots. At this point I'm thinking Amos could have advanced quickly off his line to make himself large or even Pratley might have came across to try and block with his body - but if Maartsen hadn't dived in, they wouldn't have had to.
My comments are meant to be constructive, so not meaning to play the blame game on such a young but talented player - but IMO Maartsen was at fault on 2 occasions leading up to the goal. He'll learn with coaching and experience - but it makes me wince how easily the Charlton defence was opened up.
14 points lost last season, 4 this season. In goals conceded in 90 minutes plus extra time.