If you are seeing what you think are tactical errors every now and again, it is football. When it feels like every game, you comment based on previous games as well as the last one.
Loyalty isn't always a good thing in football - look at England and Roy Hodgson. But many of the critical posters are not saying Bowyer should be sacked, they are saying things need to improve and what they expect from him going forwards. Some want to give him a free pass. I know what sounds the most reasonable to me.
Matthews didn't have a mare. The point some people are making is that a natural attacking left back like Maatsen better suits the system. Our strength seems to be in our midfield so why put him in there? Matthews as right back suits the system too. Especially at home.
In which case people are moaning for the sake of it!!... Pick holes in Bowyer's decisions when they go wrong but why focus on an area it seems he got right?
Matthews ended up with an assist and got the corner for the first, Maatsen could have gotten a brace playing further forward
Bowyer even explained before the game that Maatsen's natural position is in Midfield, I loosely quote: "Its where he's played more often, especially for Holland" its just for us he's been playing further back
Slip of the tongue? He plays CM for Netherland U18/19s but he is recognised as a left-back for Chelsea U23s. Though he is clearly a very competent CM, I don't think that's his position.
Certainly not a reason we can't/shouldn't play him there as he looked good.
If you are seeing what you think are tactical errors every now and again, it is football. When it feels like every game, you comment based on previous games as well as the last one.
Loyalty isn't always a good thing in football - look at England and Roy Hodgson. But many of the critical posters are not saying Bowyer should be sacked, they are saying things need to improve and what they expect from him going forwards. Some want to give him a free pass. I know what sounds the most reasonable to me.
But Bowyer also has the advantage of being able to analyse Plymouth for a good period before a game... What might look tactical rubbish to us, could well be because he's seen something to try and exploit. Of course there is no guarantee that it'll come off because if the opposition Manager is equally good enough they'll not only be trying to exploit our own tactical issues, but if they see that we've found something, they'll then alter their own game plan to counter that.
Its another reason why I'm loath to say who we should be starting each week and what our best team should be, as the opposition strengths and weaknesses will surely impact that
At the same time we shouldnt be mugs and alter our setup just to stop the other team, we should play our own way, that should be the opponents job, but again THATS something their Manager will be thinking too
e.g. If the opposition have a Centre-Back who moves like a tractor, yet is a rock in the air, you wouldn't put Aneke against him would you, thats when its probably more ideal to play Smyth
Like others have said, my attitude probably comes across where I'm too optimistic and want to give him a free pass, but I think others presume the Management side of the game far more simple than what it is
Even if it is his position. We have a lot of quality midfielders. So much so that Bowyer has said he is prioritising defence and attack in the window. So seeing as Maatsen is our best left back and an attacking one to boot, why lose that in a system that relies on the full backs for width.
Reading this thread is a bit concerning for Bowyer. I hope we stick with him. He deserves that for what he’s achieved over the last couple of years.
And in principle, I hope we stick by Bowyer ...... loyalty should be a two way thing.
But something has to change. The football is turgid and predictable, square pegs in round holes, the players have no mojo. It's plainly not working as it should.
He might emphasise we're unbeaten in 4 games. But all of these teams should have been comfortably beaten.
I feel the ball is in Lee's court really. He must know in his heart he can't keep muddling through like this. Make it more simple, quicker and at times, more direct. Play players in their own positions. And use rotation more sparingly - we need the team more settled, get a system that allows them to play like they can ...... and let them play.
We might not be Barcelona, but surely we can be better than what we've being seeing lately?
Left back in midfield. Right back at left back. Centre mid at centre back. Perfectly decent centre back on the bench. Most creative midfielder on the bench. All that against one of the leakiest defences in the league. That is all
Spot on. Would love to know why.
Also no good starting your best 2 strikers & then leaving the creative players (Maddison & Morgan) on the bench. We might be in a decent position with a game in hand but we should be so much higher up - probably 2nd. 4 points dropped in the last 2 games against teams that are in bad run of form & who are leaking goals.
When Bowyer starts Maddison, people moan that he’s not starting Williams.
When Bowyer starts Williams, people moan that he’s not starting Maddison.
Sorry, I must have missed the memo from the EFL that we can't play the 2 together. Silly me.
They can but I don’t think so in a midfield four. Maybe both on the wings but then you’ve only got one up front.
We got overrun in the middle today with only one of them playing - you simply can’t rely on them both of them in there.
They were both on the pitch for 40 odd minutes against Wimbledon, we scored 4 and conceded 0
Different opposition, different circumstances. Wimbledon had next to no counter attacking threat. They got their lead and battened down the hatches. Plymouth had two pacey outlets in Hardie and Jephcott who were ready and waiting to punish us if we overcommitted.
Maybe next game we should play 7 forwards, 3 midfielders and a goalkeeper.
Couldn't disagree more. He gets the ball and looks for the positive attacking pass when its on. He also does one touch passes that don't always come off, but they are the ones that often break defences. He also gets more than his fair share of free kicks that provide an opportunity for a different kind of attacking threat. And he is a very busy player that poses its own problems for opponents. On top of that, he is a player willing to run with the ball. He is our best midfielder in my book.
Would only get on the bench for me. He gets fouled because he takes too many touches. No end product. Great when we are chasing a game and in full attacking mode.
Always surprised me that he is not a free kick taker. If he could put away a few that he has earned he would be dangerous. But he’s not.
Couldn't disagree more. He gets the ball and looks for the positive attacking pass when its on. He also does one touch passes that don't always come off, but they are the ones that often break defences. He also gets more than his fair share of free kicks that provide an opportunity for a different kind of attacking threat. And he is a very busy player that poses its own problems for opponents. On top of that, he is a player willing to run with the ball. He is our best midfielder in my book.
Would only get on the bench for me. He gets fouled because he takes too many touches. No end product. Great when we are chasing a game and in full attacking mode.
Always surprised me that he is not a free kick taker. If he could put away a few that he has earned he would be dangerous. But he’s not.
Too much going in the world to get hysterical about football. All I’ll say is that we are a hard watch at the moment. Frustrating is the best word I can think of. Can’t decide whether we are failing to get the best out of a decent squad at this level or whether at least five of them are vastly overrated. What’s for sure is Lee doesn’t know his best eleven and the combination of tinker man selections and defensive tactics is leaving me cold. Injuries are not helping nor is the lack of atmosphere but it’s not pleasant.
I rate Matthews, and he did ok on the left by all accounts.
With a diamond midfield, you need the full backs to provide the width, which is tricky when they’re on the wrong side, and Matthews didn’t look happy going to the byeline.
Bowyer put Maatsen in the middle to deal with Plymouth midfielder Camara’s pace, which was a big issue in the FA Cup game.
Matthews didn't have a mare. The point some people are making is that a natural attacking left back like Maatsen better suits the system. Our strength seems to be in our midfield so why put him in there? Matthews as right back suits the system too. Especially at home.
In which case people are moaning for the sake of it!!... Pick holes in Bowyer's decisions when they go wrong but why focus on an area it seems he got right?
Matthews ended up with an assist and got the corner for the first, Maatsen could have gotten a brace playing further forward
Bowyer even explained before the game that Maatsen's natural position is in Midfield, I loosely quote: "Its where he's played more often, especially for Holland" its just for us he's been playing further back
The second reason Bowyer played him there again I loosely quote: "Plymouth have a lad who likes to get forward, Maatsen playing where he is, should be able to deal with that"
Whoa. You are being very selective there. So Matthew's just happened to PASS INSIDE to Maddison (as a left back he by rights should be going down the OUTSIDE and are you sure Matthews got the corner as it was down our right & he was playing on the left.
I can count many more times that we could have built an attack but (as has been mentioned) it was stopped as Matthews had to come inside & the play broke down.
No team that ever won anything played with a right back at left back.......especially when a natural left back was available (in this case Purrington).
I'm going to leave in there for now but I will call it out everytime a player is not playing in their natural position, especially when there us a ready made replacement sitting on the bench (or stands). No-one is blaming Matthews for us not winning. He is a great player and FWIW was my POTY last season. But......we are limited going forward if we continue playing players out of position. I don't know what message Bowyer is trying to send to Purrington & Oshilaja......but he didn't get it from a coaching book !!
Funnily enough I actually felt like we played alright. At least I could see some shape forming. We were pretty exciting going forward (at least at the start) but our defence was abysmal. With Inniss and Famewo out there today we would have walked that. After that game Bows can see that we need a solid CB in the January window. It looks like both Inniss and Famewo are a couple of sick notes. Is that why we got them so easily?!
Like I said, some positives for me but our defence today was so pedestrian and it was like a knife through butter. And Bows can see that as well. I think Maatsen in that more central role is a shrewd move. He looked classy to me in that position and will be able to open things up.
I think Maddison should start every game. He just sees things and can also open things up. It was good to see Smyth come on as well. Don't despair folks. It's a long old season and it's a marathon not a sprint. Bows knows how he wants to play and the players he needs.
Matthews didn't have a mare. The point some people are making is that a natural attacking left back like Maatsen better suits the system. Our strength seems to be in our midfield so why put him in there? Matthews as right back suits the system too. Especially at home.
In which case people are moaning for the sake of it!!... Pick holes in Bowyer's decisions when they go wrong but why focus on an area it seems he got right?
Matthews ended up with an assist and got the corner for the first, Maatsen could have gotten a brace playing further forward
Bowyer even explained before the game that Maatsen's natural position is in Midfield, I loosely quote: "Its where he's played more often, especially for Holland" its just for us he's been playing further back
The second reason Bowyer played him there again I loosely quote: "Plymouth have a lad who likes to get forward, Maatsen playing where he is, should be able to deal with that"
Whoa. You are being very selective there. So Matthew's just happened to PASS INSIDE to Maddison (as a left back he by rights should be going down the OUTSIDE and are you sure Matthews got the corner as it was down our right & he was playing on the left.
I can count many more times that we could have built an attack but (as has been mentioned) it was stopped as Matthews had to come inside & the play broke down.
No team that ever won anything played with a right back at left back.......especially when a natural left back was available (in this case Purrington).
I'm going to leave in there for now but I will call it out everytime a player is not playing in their natural position, especially when there us a ready made replacement sitting on the bench (or stands). No-one is blaming Matthews for us not winning. He is a great player and FWIW was my POTY last season. But......we are limited going forward if we continue playing players out of position. I don't know what message Bowyer is trying to send to Purrington & Oshilaja......but he didn't get it from a coaching book !!
Doesn't the treble and god knows what else Fergie won with Dennis Irwin at left back count?
Other than FA, i think those who are blindly backing bowyer are employing the 'If you don't have anything good to say, say nothing' technique, which is fine but this is a football forum and discussing team performances must surely be its main 'raison d'etre' - i think for some, being involved with the club in some capacity is more important than how the team is performing. Each to their own.
Perhaps Purrington is another one Bowyer would like to change in the January horse trading?
I'm thinking Gallen and Bowyer have got their thinking caps on to bring more pace to the side .... vital if he wants to stick with a diamond midfield.
I wouldn't be surprised if we see one or two such as Purrington or Oshilaja move on. They aren't players I expect to be offered new contracts, but it'll need both interest in them and the right player to be available to us. I would guess there are a few deals like this that are possible but it might not be clear at this stage if they'll happen.
@Sage, you've not provided a post match review of your thoughts and insights?
Sometimes tend to steer away from it if I feel there are going to be arguments or disagreements.
I am also really busy at the moment, I’m doing the COVID mass testing in Greenwich so haven’t had much opportunity to be on here either. Blessing for me that Peterborough game has been called off.
Matthews didn’t disgrace himself as left back but nor did he look like he fitted there. Maatsen may play for NL as LM but he has played for his clubs as LB. I wouldn’t say that LM is his natural position (sorry Lee) and I don’t think he should play there in League 1.
Purrington is an ok if slightly limited LB who lets his player get a cross in much too often but has scored the odd goal. I know many who would be delighted if he were to move on in January but I think he’s good cover for that position abs should be used there when we need it.
Gunter appears a more utility player than Matthews and seems more two footed although can’t say he’s been fantastic at CB. Not sure why Matthews was selected to be out of position at LB rather than Gunter, must be a reason but if I was set on maatsen to provide some pace up front I’d have had Gunter behind him and Matthews on the right.
What our starting midfield lacked was energy, it was quite noticeable how much livelier Morgan looked than any of the starting players
So often we see an opposition midfielder picking the ball up and driving forward, Fraser for MKD, Camara for Plymouth. I assume Gilbey was meant to be that player for us?
What our starting midfield lacked was energy, it was quite noticeable how much livelier Morgan looked than any of the starting players
So often we see an opposition midfielder picking the ball up and driving forward, Fraser for MKD, Camara for Plymouth. I assume Gilbey was meant to be that player for us?
Maybe JFC could be doing that? He does sometimes.
You know, I'm thinking it's Bowyer's set ups restricting that, with Watson in a withdrawn role* ...... maybe that's a downside of the diamond.
I think that JFC is too slow and he also lacks the strength and guile to force his way past people. Gilbey demonstrated that he could do it in his early games for it but hasn't shown any form following his return from injury. Hopefully he'll come good, as we really do need a ball carrier in central midfield.
Maybe players are told the position they must play in and they stick to that position rigidly because their scared that if they don't do as there told they get subbed. 🙄
Following LBs post match interview he mentioned that at half time he had told them to move the ball quicker. It may seem obvious but could he not tell them to move the ball quickly from the beginning ? Instead of being so pedestrian we need to play at a higher tempo.
Following LBs post match interview he mentioned that at half time he had told them to move the ball quicker. It may seem obvious but could he not tell them to move the ball quickly from the beginning ? Instead of being so pedestrian we need to play at a higher tempo.
Cor, why has nobody thought of that before! He should tell them all to score goals and not let any in.
Following LBs post match interview he mentioned that at half time he had told them to move the ball quicker. It may seem obvious but could he not tell them to move the ball quickly from the beginning ? Instead of being so pedestrian we need to play at a higher tempo.
Cor, why has nobody thought of that before! He should tell them all to score goals and not let any in.
Well as Bowyer made the point during his interview & attributed that as to why we picked up in the second half obviously it's not what he thought of for the first half.
Comments
Loyalty isn't always a good thing in football - look at England and Roy Hodgson. But many of the critical posters are not saying Bowyer should be sacked, they are saying things need to improve and what they expect from him going forwards. Some want to give him a free pass. I know what sounds the most reasonable to me.
Certainly not a reason we can't/shouldn't play him there as he looked good.
Its another reason why I'm loath to say who we should be starting each week and what our best team should be, as the opposition strengths and weaknesses will surely impact that
At the same time we shouldnt be mugs and alter our setup just to stop the other team, we should play our own way, that should be the opponents job, but again THATS something their Manager will be thinking too
e.g. If the opposition have a Centre-Back who moves like a tractor, yet is a rock in the air, you wouldn't put Aneke against him would you, thats when its probably more ideal to play Smyth
Like others have said, my attitude probably comes across where I'm too optimistic and want to give him a free pass, but I think others presume the Management side of the game far more simple than what it is
That's who I'm blaming anyway. Old habits die hard ...
But something has to change. The football is turgid and predictable, square pegs in round holes, the players have no mojo.
It's plainly not working as it should.
He might emphasise we're unbeaten in 4 games.
But all of these teams should have been comfortably beaten.
I feel the ball is in Lee's court really. He must know in his heart he can't keep muddling through like this.
Make it more simple, quicker and at times, more direct. Play players in their own positions. And use rotation more sparingly - we need the team more settled, get a system that allows them to play like they can ...... and let them play.
We might not be Barcelona, but surely we can be better than what we've being seeing lately?
Maybe next game we should play 7 forwards, 3 midfielders and a goalkeeper.
Always surprised me that he is not a free kick taker. If he could put away a few that he has earned he would be dangerous. But he’s not.
With a diamond midfield, you need the full backs to provide the width, which is tricky when they’re on the wrong side, and Matthews didn’t look happy going to the byeline.
I'm thinking Gallen and Bowyer have got their thinking caps on to bring more pace to the side .... vital if he wants to stick with a diamond midfield.
Our injury record makes it hard to be positive for any signings as it just feels that everybody has their turn to get crocked with us.
I am also really busy at the moment, I’m doing the COVID mass testing in Greenwich so haven’t had much opportunity to be on here either. Blessing for me that Peterborough game has been called off.
Purrington is an ok if slightly limited LB who lets his player get a cross in much too often but has scored the odd goal. I know many who would be delighted if he were to move on in January but I think he’s good cover for that position abs should be used there when we need it.
Gunter appears a more utility player than Matthews and seems more two footed although can’t say he’s been fantastic at CB. Not sure why Matthews was selected to be out of position at LB rather than Gunter, must be a reason but if I was set on maatsen to provide some pace up front I’d have had Gunter behind him and Matthews on the right.
So often we see an opposition midfielder picking the ball up and driving forward, Fraser for MKD, Camara for Plymouth. I assume Gilbey was meant to be that player for us?
You know, I'm thinking it's Bowyer's set ups restricting that, with Watson in a withdrawn role* ...... maybe that's a downside of the diamond.
* no jokes please