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Post-match Thread: Charlton v Plymouth | Boxing Day 2020

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    Simple solution. Start them both then.

    Did you want Bowyer to match them up in a 3-5-2 like Curbs said or do you want him to play both luxury players? There's no way Williams and Maddison can play together in a central midfield three.
    It was a tongue in cheek response to a previous comment. There isn't one way, there are different options. But square pegs in round holes when it isn't forced on you might not be the right one. 

    I do think that if you know you have better players, it is normally a good idea to match up. Maybe Bowyer rates the players less than I do.



    I agree re: Pratley at centre back next to Pearce. I personally would've started Deji today.

    Pushing Maatsen forward to inject much needed pace into midfield made sense to me and wouldn't mind seeing Bowyer trying it again, especially if Doughty and Smyth are unavailable.

    I could see the logic behind trying Matthews on the left side - he's supposedly capable over there but turns out he has no left foot. If Bowyer tries it again I'll be baffled.
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    Left back in midfield. Right back at left back. Centre mid at centre back. Perfectly decent centre back on the bench. Most creative midfielder on the bench. All that against one of the leakiest defences in the league. That is all
    Spot on. Would love to know why.

    Also no good starting your best 2 strikers & then leaving the creative players (Maddison & Morgan) on the bench. We might be in a decent position with a game in hand but we should be so much higher up - probably 2nd. 4 points dropped in the last 2 games against teams that are in bad run of form & who are leaking goals. 
    When Bowyer starts Maddison, people moan that he’s not starting Williams.

    When Bowyer starts Williams, people moan that he’s not starting Maddison.
    Dont worry if we lose when we start both it'll be because Pratley started over Oshilaja

    Fans know that Bowyer has only picked the right team when we win, unfortunately they have the hindsight to know if we've won or not

    Whereas Bowyer wont have that advantage before picking the team what'll actually happen

    Because the opposition will come along with their own game plan!!

    And lets not pretend, as even when the team sheet gets announced, the en mass comments will start saying Bowyer has got it wrong, even if we go on to win
    Deji is a CB (a CB who Bowyer signed) and yet he thinks Pratley is a better option? That’s just odd, especially alongside Pearce as it’s slow. I do appreciate your optimism but I think Bowyer would have to murder your family for you to consider criticising him. 
    Again though, apart from one brief moment where Pratley went for a Boxing Day stroll he didnt do anything wrong

    You're right calling for Oshilaja but how do you know he's not going to make even more mistakes that are going to be even more costly?

    That is why I'm reluctant to moan about the Manager's choices

    Because we're able to sit here and complain that one choice was wrong, yet dont know if the other option was worse
    That stroll played a major part in the goal though. If Bowyer doesn’t trust Deji to start a League 1 game there’s something seriously wrong there. He wasn’t particularly good last season but he has plenty of experience at this level and I’m presuming did well enough to catch the eye of Bows and/or Gallen. 

    If Deji played poorly im hoping the majority of fans would aim the criticism at the player, I certainly would. 

    For me Bows is opening himself up for criticism. I cannot understand how you can defend Matthews playing at LB and Pratley at CB when Deji and Purrington were both available. 

    If it’s true players aren’t training well enough to be picked I am massively concerned to be honest. It’s Lee Bowyers job to motivate this players, both in training and on the pitch. We’re not talking about 18 year olds here either. Last season he repeatedly spoke about effort and it came down to injuries, inexperience and a general lack of quality. I agreed with him and he had my sympathy due to budgets, off the pitch shit etc. This season there has been more criticism with regards to effort and that worries me. 
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    Thought Steve Brown did an excellent job of summarising our limitations today. Such a disjointed performance and so many misplaced passes under little to no pressure.

    Disappointing results lately but finding it hard to be as upset about it as others appear to be. I must still be riding the takeover high but dropped points just aren’t bothering me. Still 84 more points available between now and the summer and we are still within touching distance of automatics.

    We have a whole transfer window coming up where we can strengthen properly for the first time in years.

    Matthews at left back was worth trying but I’d rather not see it again - the bloke has no left foot.

    If we are still playing this badly in February/March then I’ll start asking more questions but right now we’re flying under the radar and one run of good form will propel us forward.
    He does but he doesn't seem confident using it. He put in a superb left footed cross in the first half  that Chuks (I think) couldn't quite get to but it opened them right up.
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    It wasn't that Matthews was terrible, it is more that Maatson is a better left back and we are not short of midfield options.

    All the talk the last couple of weeks is that we have no pace in midfield. Maatsen is the only (currently) available option that can go some way towards fixing that.

    Of all of Bowyer's questioned selections today, that one was the one that I can't find fault with.
    I didn’t mind it either, it was the non selection of the second choice LB that made it worse. 
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    10 points from 8 games including failing to beat Burton, Plymouth, Gillingham, MKDons, Shrewsbury and Swindon is RELEGATION form.  

    We won't go down of course but there is no positive spin on this, it is a dreadful run.

    Needs to turn around fast, we are not as good as our last L1 squad but the L1 line up this season is poor and we should be doing way better even with our injuries.

    Pratley is not a CB and it has been very obvious for weeks.
    My maths is pretty shoddy, so apologies in advance if I’ve got it wrong, but 10 points every 8 games isn’t relegation form. 
    It is equally about whom we have played.  10 points in 8 games v teams averaging 16.5 place in a league of 24 is relegation form if you ask me. 
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    Chunes said:
    Left back in midfield. Right back at left back. Centre mid at centre back. Perfectly decent centre back on the bench. Most creative midfielder on the bench. All that against one of the leakiest defences in the league. That is all
    Spot on. Would love to know why.

    Also no good starting your best 2 strikers & then leaving the creative players (Maddison & Morgan) on the bench. We might be in a decent position with a game in hand but we should be so much higher up - probably 2nd. 4 points dropped in the last 2 games against teams that are in bad run of form & who are leaking goals. 
    When Bowyer starts Maddison, people moan that he’s not starting Williams.

    When Bowyer starts Williams, people moan that he’s not starting Maddison.
    Dont worry if we lose when we start both it'll be because Pratley started over Oshilaja

    Fans know that Bowyer has only picked the right team when we win, unfortunately they have the hindsight to know if we've won or not

    Whereas Bowyer wont have that advantage before picking the team what'll actually happen

    Because the opposition will come along with their own game plan!!

    And lets not pretend, as even when the team sheet gets announced, the en mass comments will start saying Bowyer has got it wrong, even if we go on to win
    Deji is a CB (a CB who Bowyer signed) and yet he thinks Pratley is a better option? That’s just odd, especially alongside Pearce as it’s slow. I do appreciate your optimism but I think Bowyer would have to murder your family for you to consider criticising him. 
    Again though, apart from one brief moment where Pratley went for a Boxing Day stroll he didnt do anything wrong
    Have to disagree here. Pratley was all over the place. 
    He was better in the second half, but positionally was very suspect in the first half. The dangerous free kick he gave away just outside the box (for which he mysteriously again wasn't booked) came when he followed the Plymouth attacker virtually to the half way line before being outrun as the attacker closed in on goal

    And for their 1st goal I've no idea where was when the ball came into the box
  • Options
    edited December 2020
    Left back in midfield. Right back at left back. Centre mid at centre back. Perfectly decent centre back on the bench. Most creative midfielder on the bench. All that against one of the leakiest defences in the league. That is all
    Spot on. Would love to know why.

    Also no good starting your best 2 strikers & then leaving the creative players (Maddison & Morgan) on the bench. We might be in a decent position with a game in hand but we should be so much higher up - probably 2nd. 4 points dropped in the last 2 games against teams that are in bad run of form & who are leaking goals. 
    When Bowyer starts Maddison, people moan that he’s not starting Williams.

    When Bowyer starts Williams, people moan that he’s not starting Maddison.
    Dont worry if we lose when we start both it'll be because Pratley started over Oshilaja

    Fans know that Bowyer has only picked the right team when we win, unfortunately they have the hindsight to know if we've won or not

    Whereas Bowyer wont have that advantage before picking the team what'll actually happen

    Because the opposition will come along with their own game plan!!

    And lets not pretend, as even when the team sheet gets announced, the en mass comments will start saying Bowyer has got it wrong, even if we go on to win
    Deji is a CB (a CB who Bowyer signed) and yet he thinks Pratley is a better option? That’s just odd, especially alongside Pearce as it’s slow. I do appreciate your optimism but I think Bowyer would have to murder your family for you to consider criticising him. 
    Again though, apart from one brief moment where Pratley went for a Boxing Day stroll he didnt do anything wrong

    You're right calling for Oshilaja but how do you know he's not going to make even more mistakes that are going to be even more costly?

    That is why I'm reluctant to moan about the Manager's choices

    Because we're able to sit here and complain that one choice was wrong, yet dont know if the other option was worse
    That stroll played a major part in the goal though. If Bowyer doesn’t trust Deji to start a League 1 game there’s something seriously wrong there. He wasn’t particularly good last season but he has plenty of experience at this level and I’m presuming did well enough to catch the eye of Bows and/or Gallen. 

    If Deji played poorly im hoping the majority of fans would aim the criticism at the player, I certainly would. 

    For me Bows is opening himself up for criticism. I cannot understand how you can defend Matthews playing at LB and Pratley at CB when Deji and Purrington were both available. 

    If it’s true players aren’t training well enough to be picked I am massively concerned to be honest. It’s Lee Bowyers job to motivate this players, both in training and on the pitch. We’re not talking about 18 year olds here either. Last season he repeatedly spoke about effort and it came down to injuries, inexperience and a general lack of quality. I agreed with him and he had my sympathy due to budgets, off the pitch shit etc. This season there has been more criticism with regards to effort and that worries me. 
    You see I cannot understand how fans can instantly presume that Oshilaja and Purrington would do better

    Just want to check that its the same Purrington fans have been slating as being rubbish for the last season and a half, the same Oshilaja everyone thought was playing shit at the start of this season?

    If Oshilaja plays against Hull then the fans calling for him to play surely have to take criticism if it goes wrong

    Unfortunately that wont happen will it?
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    Come on Curbs, time for you to come back.  You know you want to.
    I like the way he says "We".  Still loves Charlton not wet spam.
  • Options
    Left back in midfield. Right back at left back. Centre mid at centre back. Perfectly decent centre back on the bench. Most creative midfielder on the bench. All that against one of the leakiest defences in the league. That is all
    Spot on. Would love to know why.

    Also no good starting your best 2 strikers & then leaving the creative players (Maddison & Morgan) on the bench. We might be in a decent position with a game in hand but we should be so much higher up - probably 2nd. 4 points dropped in the last 2 games against teams that are in bad run of form & who are leaking goals. 
    When Bowyer starts Maddison, people moan that he’s not starting Williams.

    When Bowyer starts Williams, people moan that he’s not starting Maddison.
    Dont worry if we lose when we start both it'll be because Pratley started over Oshilaja

    Fans know that Bowyer has only picked the right team when we win, unfortunately they have the hindsight to know if we've won or not

    Whereas Bowyer wont have that advantage before picking the team what'll actually happen

    Because the opposition will come along with their own game plan!!

    And lets not pretend, as even when the team sheet gets announced, the en mass comments will start saying Bowyer has got it wrong, even if we go on to win
    Deji is a CB (a CB who Bowyer signed) and yet he thinks Pratley is a better option? That’s just odd, especially alongside Pearce as it’s slow. I do appreciate your optimism but I think Bowyer would have to murder your family for you to consider criticising him. 
    Again though, apart from one brief moment where Pratley went for a Boxing Day stroll he didnt do anything wrong

    You're right calling for Oshilaja but how do you know he's not going to make even more mistakes that are going to be even more costly?

    That is why I'm reluctant to moan about the Manager's choices

    Because we're able to sit here and complain that one choice was wrong, yet dont know if the other option was worse
    That stroll played a major part in the goal though. If Bowyer doesn’t trust Deji to start a League 1 game there’s something seriously wrong there. He wasn’t particularly good last season but he has plenty of experience at this level and I’m presuming did well enough to catch the eye of Bows and/or Gallen. 

    If Deji played poorly im hoping the majority of fans would aim the criticism at the player, I certainly would. 

    For me Bows is opening himself up for criticism. I cannot understand how you can defend Matthews playing at LB and Pratley at CB when Deji and Purrington were both available. 

    If it’s true players aren’t training well enough to be picked I am massively concerned to be honest. It’s Lee Bowyers job to motivate this players, both in training and on the pitch. We’re not talking about 18 year olds here either. Last season he repeatedly spoke about effort and it came down to injuries, inexperience and a general lack of quality. I agreed with him and he had my sympathy due to budgets, off the pitch shit etc. This season there has been more criticism with regards to effort and that worries me. 
    You see I cannot understand how fans can instantly presume that Oshilaja and Purrington would do better

    Just want to check that its the same Purrington fans have been slating as being rubbish for the last season and a half, the same Oshilaja everyone thought was playing shit at the start of this season?

    If Oshilaja plays against Hull then the fans calling for him to play surely have to take criticism if it goes wrong

    Unfortunately that wont happen will it?
    I’m assuming Deji would be better than Pratley because it’s his position. Pratley has filled a gap and done a job for the team but today wasn’t his first below par performance at CB. I’m reluctant to criticise him because he’s playing out of position. 

    No I don’t agree the fans should take the criticism. Like I said, Bowyer signed Deji as a CB. Are you not concerned that Bows now seems to think Pratley is a better bet? If that’s the case he’s worthless to the club (for the record I think he’s ok at this level). 
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    Thought that was a shocking performance, lucky to get a point.

    No chance of getting promoted without strengthening in key areas.
    The manager is a key area that needs strengthening 
  • Options
    Left back in midfield. Right back at left back. Centre mid at centre back. Perfectly decent centre back on the bench. Most creative midfielder on the bench. All that against one of the leakiest defences in the league. That is all
    Spot on. Would love to know why.

    Also no good starting your best 2 strikers & then leaving the creative players (Maddison & Morgan) on the bench. We might be in a decent position with a game in hand but we should be so much higher up - probably 2nd. 4 points dropped in the last 2 games against teams that are in bad run of form & who are leaking goals. 
    When Bowyer starts Maddison, people moan that he’s not starting Williams.

    When Bowyer starts Williams, people moan that he’s not starting Maddison.
    Dont worry if we lose when we start both it'll be because Pratley started over Oshilaja

    Fans know that Bowyer has only picked the right team when we win, unfortunately they have the hindsight to know if we've won or not

    Whereas Bowyer wont have that advantage before picking the team what'll actually happen

    Because the opposition will come along with their own game plan!!

    And lets not pretend, as even when the team sheet gets announced, the en mass comments will start saying Bowyer has got it wrong, even if we go on to win
    Deji is a CB (a CB who Bowyer signed) and yet he thinks Pratley is a better option? That’s just odd, especially alongside Pearce as it’s slow. I do appreciate your optimism but I think Bowyer would have to murder your family for you to consider criticising him. 
    Again though, apart from one brief moment where Pratley went for a Boxing Day stroll he didnt do anything wrong

    You're right calling for Oshilaja but how do you know he's not going to make even more mistakes that are going to be even more costly?

    That is why I'm reluctant to moan about the Manager's choices

    Because we're able to sit here and complain that one choice was wrong, yet dont know if the other option was worse
    That stroll played a major part in the goal though. If Bowyer doesn’t trust Deji to start a League 1 game there’s something seriously wrong there. He wasn’t particularly good last season but he has plenty of experience at this level and I’m presuming did well enough to catch the eye of Bows and/or Gallen. 

    If Deji played poorly im hoping the majority of fans would aim the criticism at the player, I certainly would. 

    For me Bows is opening himself up for criticism. I cannot understand how you can defend Matthews playing at LB and Pratley at CB when Deji and Purrington were both available. 

    If it’s true players aren’t training well enough to be picked I am massively concerned to be honest. It’s Lee Bowyers job to motivate this players, both in training and on the pitch. We’re not talking about 18 year olds here either. Last season he repeatedly spoke about effort and it came down to injuries, inexperience and a general lack of quality. I agreed with him and he had my sympathy due to budgets, off the pitch shit etc. This season there has been more criticism with regards to effort and that worries me. 
    You see I cannot understand how fans can instantly presume that Oshilaja and Purrington would do better

    Just want to check that its the same Purrington fans have been slating as being rubbish for the last season and a half, the same Oshilaja everyone thought was playing shit at the start of this season?

    If Oshilaja plays against Hull then the fans calling for him to play surely have to take criticism if it goes wrong

    Unfortunately that wont happen will it?
    I’m assuming Deji would be better than Pratley because it’s his position. Pratley has filled a gap and done a job for the team but today wasn’t his first below par performance at CB. I’m reluctant to criticise him because he’s playing out of position. 

    No I don’t agree the fans should take the criticism. Like I said, Bowyer signed Deji as a CB. Are you not concerned that Bows now seems to think Pratley is a better bet? If that’s the case he’s worthless to the club (for the record I think he’s ok at this level). 
    I've already voiced my concern that Bowyer surely isnt starting Deji because he potentially could be off in January to free up wages

    I think it would be a good question to raise to Lee (@LouisMend?) as to why Deji isnt getting much game time

    Of course it could also be down to the fact that Oshilaja isnt doing enough in training compared to Pratley

    If you cant do it there, can you honestly be relied upon to produce the required performance when it matters in a game?
  • Options
    Left back in midfield. Right back at left back. Centre mid at centre back. Perfectly decent centre back on the bench. Most creative midfielder on the bench. All that against one of the leakiest defences in the league. That is all
    Spot on. Would love to know why.

    Also no good starting your best 2 strikers & then leaving the creative players (Maddison & Morgan) on the bench. We might be in a decent position with a game in hand but we should be so much higher up - probably 2nd. 4 points dropped in the last 2 games against teams that are in bad run of form & who are leaking goals. 
    When Bowyer starts Maddison, people moan that he’s not starting Williams.

    When Bowyer starts Williams, people moan that he’s not starting Maddison.
    Dont worry if we lose when we start both it'll be because Pratley started over Oshilaja

    Fans know that Bowyer has only picked the right team when we win, unfortunately they have the hindsight to know if we've won or not

    Whereas Bowyer wont have that advantage before picking the team what'll actually happen

    Because the opposition will come along with their own game plan!!

    And lets not pretend, as even when the team sheet gets announced, the en mass comments will start saying Bowyer has got it wrong, even if we go on to win
    Deji is a CB (a CB who Bowyer signed) and yet he thinks Pratley is a better option? That’s just odd, especially alongside Pearce as it’s slow. I do appreciate your optimism but I think Bowyer would have to murder your family for you to consider criticising him. 
    Again though, apart from one brief moment where Pratley went for a Boxing Day stroll he didnt do anything wrong

    You're right calling for Oshilaja but how do you know he's not going to make even more mistakes that are going to be even more costly?

    That is why I'm reluctant to moan about the Manager's choices

    Because we're able to sit here and complain that one choice was wrong, yet dont know if the other option was worse
    That stroll played a major part in the goal though. If Bowyer doesn’t trust Deji to start a League 1 game there’s something seriously wrong there. He wasn’t particularly good last season but he has plenty of experience at this level and I’m presuming did well enough to catch the eye of Bows and/or Gallen. 

    If Deji played poorly im hoping the majority of fans would aim the criticism at the player, I certainly would. 

    For me Bows is opening himself up for criticism. I cannot understand how you can defend Matthews playing at LB and Pratley at CB when Deji and Purrington were both available. 

    If it’s true players aren’t training well enough to be picked I am massively concerned to be honest. It’s Lee Bowyers job to motivate this players, both in training and on the pitch. We’re not talking about 18 year olds here either. Last season he repeatedly spoke about effort and it came down to injuries, inexperience and a general lack of quality. I agreed with him and he had my sympathy due to budgets, off the pitch shit etc. This season there has been more criticism with regards to effort and that worries me. 
    You see I cannot understand how fans can instantly presume that Oshilaja and Purrington would do better

    Just want to check that its the same Purrington fans have been slating as being rubbish for the last season and a half, the same Oshilaja everyone thought was playing shit at the start of this season?

    If Oshilaja plays against Hull then the fans calling for him to play surely have to take criticism if it goes wrong

    Unfortunately that wont happen will it?
    I’m assuming Deji would be better than Pratley because it’s his position. Pratley has filled a gap and done a job for the team but today wasn’t his first below par performance at CB. I’m reluctant to criticise him because he’s playing out of position. 

    No I don’t agree the fans should take the criticism. Like I said, Bowyer signed Deji as a CB. Are you not concerned that Bows now seems to think Pratley is a better bet? If that’s the case he’s worthless to the club (for the record I think he’s ok at this level). 
    I've already voiced my concern that Bowyer surely isnt starting Deji because he potentially could be off in January to free up wages

    I think it would be a good question to raise to Lee (@LouisMend?) as to why Deji isnt getting much game time

    Of course it could also be down to the fact that Oshilaja isnt doing enough in training compared to Pratley

    If you cant do it there, can you honestly be relied upon to produce the required performance when it matters in a game?
    Fair enough, perhaps we need to know more. If it’s down to training then I’m definitely concerned because that’s quite a few players “not doing enough in training”. For me that blame is with Bows, why can’t he motivate them, particularly as we’re talking about players who were here last season. So much for improving players! 
  • Options
    Left back in midfield. Right back at left back. Centre mid at centre back. Perfectly decent centre back on the bench. Most creative midfielder on the bench. All that against one of the leakiest defences in the league. That is all
    Spot on. Would love to know why.

    Also no good starting your best 2 strikers & then leaving the creative players (Maddison & Morgan) on the bench. We might be in a decent position with a game in hand but we should be so much higher up - probably 2nd. 4 points dropped in the last 2 games against teams that are in bad run of form & who are leaking goals. 
    When Bowyer starts Maddison, people moan that he’s not starting Williams.

    When Bowyer starts Williams, people moan that he’s not starting Maddison.
    Dont worry if we lose when we start both it'll be because Pratley started over Oshilaja

    Fans know that Bowyer has only picked the right team when we win, unfortunately they have the hindsight to know if we've won or not

    Whereas Bowyer wont have that advantage before picking the team what'll actually happen

    Because the opposition will come along with their own game plan!!

    And lets not pretend, as even when the team sheet gets announced, the en mass comments will start saying Bowyer has got it wrong, even if we go on to win
    Deji is a CB (a CB who Bowyer signed) and yet he thinks Pratley is a better option? That’s just odd, especially alongside Pearce as it’s slow. I do appreciate your optimism but I think Bowyer would have to murder your family for you to consider criticising him. 
    Again though, apart from one brief moment where Pratley went for a Boxing Day stroll he didnt do anything wrong

    You're right calling for Oshilaja but how do you know he's not going to make even more mistakes that are going to be even more costly?

    That is why I'm reluctant to moan about the Manager's choices

    Because we're able to sit here and complain that one choice was wrong, yet dont know if the other option was worse
    That stroll played a major part in the goal though. If Bowyer doesn’t trust Deji to start a League 1 game there’s something seriously wrong there. He wasn’t particularly good last season but he has plenty of experience at this level and I’m presuming did well enough to catch the eye of Bows and/or Gallen. 

    If Deji played poorly im hoping the majority of fans would aim the criticism at the player, I certainly would. 

    For me Bows is opening himself up for criticism. I cannot understand how you can defend Matthews playing at LB and Pratley at CB when Deji and Purrington were both available. 

    If it’s true players aren’t training well enough to be picked I am massively concerned to be honest. It’s Lee Bowyers job to motivate this players, both in training and on the pitch. We’re not talking about 18 year olds here either. Last season he repeatedly spoke about effort and it came down to injuries, inexperience and a general lack of quality. I agreed with him and he had my sympathy due to budgets, off the pitch shit etc. This season there has been more criticism with regards to effort and that worries me. 
    You see I cannot understand how fans can instantly presume that Oshilaja and Purrington would do better

    Just want to check that its the same Purrington fans have been slating as being rubbish for the last season and a half, the same Oshilaja everyone thought was playing shit at the start of this season?

    If Oshilaja plays against Hull then the fans calling for him to play surely have to take criticism if it goes wrong

    Unfortunately that wont happen will it?
    I’m assuming Deji would be better than Pratley because it’s his position. Pratley has filled a gap and done a job for the team but today wasn’t his first below par performance at CB. I’m reluctant to criticise him because he’s playing out of position. 

    No I don’t agree the fans should take the criticism. Like I said, Bowyer signed Deji as a CB. Are you not concerned that Bows now seems to think Pratley is a better bet? If that’s the case he’s worthless to the club (for the record I think he’s ok at this level). 
    I've already voiced my concern that Bowyer surely isnt starting Deji because he potentially could be off in January to free up wages

    I think it would be a good question to raise to Lee (@LouisMend?) as to why Deji isnt getting much game time

    Of course it could also be down to the fact that Oshilaja isnt doing enough in training compared to Pratley

    If you cant do it there, can you honestly be relied upon to produce the required performance when it matters in a game?
    Fair enough, perhaps we need to know more. If it’s down to training then I’m definitely concerned because that’s quite a few players “not doing enough in training”. For me that blame is with Bows, why can’t he motivate them, particularly as we’re talking about players who were here last season. So much for improving players! 
    Yeah that is definitely a question to raise, is it the players just not caring enough? - In which case they need to piss off what with the Salary Cap in place as we can afford passengers even less than previously

    If it is with Bowyer then yeah thats where he does deserve the criticism

    If Mendez can stop being a teasing minx and type quicker then we may well know more
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    edited December 2020
    I feel this too. I think we are part of the problem too, as he is probably too proud to go back to basics in case it proves us right.

    The thing is, if he gets his defence right, we will still win the League. If teams are scoring 0 to 1 goals against us, they will generally lose. He can hopefully sort it out in January and we should be up there.

    He has definitely shown me that he is nowhere near the manager I thought he was though. I can't remember ever being more disappointed as I thought he was a breath of fresh air when he came in. 

    He can get us promoted from this league but I'm beginning to think that this is his level.  
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    Left back in midfield. Right back at left back. Centre mid at centre back. Perfectly decent centre back on the bench. Most creative midfielder on the bench. All that against one of the leakiest defences in the league. That is all
    Spot on. Would love to know why.

    Also no good starting your best 2 strikers & then leaving the creative players (Maddison & Morgan) on the bench. We might be in a decent position with a game in hand but we should be so much higher up - probably 2nd. 4 points dropped in the last 2 games against teams that are in bad run of form & who are leaking goals. 
    When Bowyer starts Maddison, people moan that he’s not starting Williams.

    When Bowyer starts Williams, people moan that he’s not starting Maddison.
    Dont worry if we lose when we start both it'll be because Pratley started over Oshilaja

    Fans know that Bowyer has only picked the right team when we win, unfortunately they have the hindsight to know if we've won or not

    Whereas Bowyer wont have that advantage before picking the team what'll actually happen

    Because the opposition will come along with their own game plan!!

    And lets not pretend, as even when the team sheet gets announced, the en mass comments will start saying Bowyer has got it wrong, even if we go on to win
    Deji is a CB (a CB who Bowyer signed) and yet he thinks Pratley is a better option? That’s just odd, especially alongside Pearce as it’s slow. I do appreciate your optimism but I think Bowyer would have to murder your family for you to consider criticising him. 
    Again though, apart from one brief moment where Pratley went for a Boxing Day stroll he didnt do anything wrong

    You're right calling for Oshilaja but how do you know he's not going to make even more mistakes that are going to be even more costly?

    That is why I'm reluctant to moan about the Manager's choices

    Because we're able to sit here and complain that one choice was wrong, yet dont know if the other option was worse
    That stroll played a major part in the goal though. If Bowyer doesn’t trust Deji to start a League 1 game there’s something seriously wrong there. He wasn’t particularly good last season but he has plenty of experience at this level and I’m presuming did well enough to catch the eye of Bows and/or Gallen. 

    If Deji played poorly im hoping the majority of fans would aim the criticism at the player, I certainly would. 

    For me Bows is opening himself up for criticism. I cannot understand how you can defend Matthews playing at LB and Pratley at CB when Deji and Purrington were both available. 

    If it’s true players aren’t training well enough to be picked I am massively concerned to be honest. It’s Lee Bowyers job to motivate this players, both in training and on the pitch. We’re not talking about 18 year olds here either. Last season he repeatedly spoke about effort and it came down to injuries, inexperience and a general lack of quality. I agreed with him and he had my sympathy due to budgets, off the pitch shit etc. This season there has been more criticism with regards to effort and that worries me. 
    You see I cannot understand how fans can instantly presume that Oshilaja and Purrington would do better

    Just want to check that its the same Purrington fans have been slating as being rubbish for the last season and a half, the same Oshilaja everyone thought was playing shit at the start of this season?

    If Oshilaja plays against Hull then the fans calling for him to play surely have to take criticism if it goes wrong

    Unfortunately that wont happen will it?
    I’m assuming Deji would be better than Pratley because it’s his position. Pratley has filled a gap and done a job for the team but today wasn’t his first below par performance at CB. I’m reluctant to criticise him because he’s playing out of position. 

    No I don’t agree the fans should take the criticism. Like I said, Bowyer signed Deji as a CB. Are you not concerned that Bows now seems to think Pratley is a better bet? If that’s the case he’s worthless to the club (for the record I think he’s ok at this level). 
    I've already voiced my concern that Bowyer surely isnt starting Deji because he potentially could be off in January to free up wages

    I think it would be a good question to raise to Lee (@LouisMend?) as to why Deji isnt getting much game time

    Of course it could also be down to the fact that Oshilaja isnt doing enough in training compared to Pratley

    If you cant do it there, can you honestly be relied upon to produce the required performance when it matters in a game?
    Fair enough, perhaps we need to know more. If it’s down to training then I’m definitely concerned because that’s quite a few players “not doing enough in training”. For me that blame is with Bows, why can’t he motivate them, particularly as we’re talking about players who were here last season. So much for improving players! 
    Yeah that is definitely a question to raise, is it the players just not caring enough? - In which case they need to piss off what with the Salary Cap in place as we can afford passengers even less than previously

    If it is with Bowyer then yeah thats where he does deserve the criticism

    If Mendez can stop being a teasing minx and type quicker then we may well know more
    Agree on passengers. I think for me it’s just pure frustration seeing us playing Pratley with Deji on the bench. We all know we are missing Inniss and Famewo but he’s making himself look stupid. You just about get away with it if you win, you look a fool when it costs you. 

    Either way I agree with Talal, I think we need to go back to basics. 
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    Thought that was a shocking performance, lucky to get a point.

    No chance of getting promoted without strengthening in key areas.
    I genuinely don't think it's about strengthening. It's about good coaching and management with the resources that are already at your disposal. 
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    Simple solution. Start them both then.
    Whose fault is it if we play both and still dont win?


    In a game of chance there are no guarantees but managers need to at least have a philosophy they want to go by.
    I don't think it was an absolute turkey today but too many personal mistakes. (Again)
    If the players are confused with their roles in the team then that can be down to the manager.
    Ideally the players in form start games and Subs come on to make an impact and start the next match if they make a bigger impact than the players they replace.
    Having players who struggle to go the distance is making it hard to play with any momentum from one half to the next let alone to play from one match to the next.

    At Charlton its the other way round and in some ways that's because Aneke only seems to score when he comes on as sub
    and Williams, who did some really good runs today but no end product when he starts.
     I want Maddison to be used in an attacking way because he can score goals like he did today. make sure MM keeps getting the ball around the area in a free role. Let the water carriers fetch and carry.

    Washington can score with some good strikes but the lovely ball from Marcus on the right ; he made a right Horlicks of.

     It''s not the result which decides my players marks, but what each individual does during the whole game or their time on the pitch. Watson was poor for their first goal but did some good blocks during the game. 

    I saw some positives today but still so far from any consistently with the opposition now realising we are a soft touch at the back.
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    LouisMend said:
    So Bowyer just doesn't rate Deji then. Pratley has been decent at CB overall in my opinion, but not excellent and certainly not good enough to start over a recognised CB. Deji will probably be one we try to move in over the next few weeks. 
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    We're not good it's true but our position in and around playoffs not a bad one at this stage. The squad is limited thanks to embargo and EFL cap constraints.
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    Thats fair enough - Pratley did make a mistake though and whilst Bowyer needs a settled back four he also needs to ensure that Oshilaja comes in if these mistakes become habit

    Thanks @LouisMend I'll be in touch later in the week with the questions you need to ask Bowyer after the Hull game ;)
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