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Post-match Thread: Charlton v Plymouth | Boxing Day 2020
Comments
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Sorry mate couldn’t disagree more. Absolute bewildering that Bowyer decided to play Maatsen midfield but then not start Purrington. The only arrogance regarding a position not being under threat I can see is from Bowyer. Continues to make baffling decisions and when the results aren’t going for you it makes you look very very stupid.ForeverAddickted said:
At the same time though its fair enough - We've played players out of position before and it hasnt hurt usgolfaddick said:
He was dropped according to Benjy Nurik. Bows said he didnt do enough last week & wanted a more attacking bench.ForeverAddickted said:
Would love to know where Purrington was todaycarly burn said:'Move the ball quicker'You've got a right back with no left foot, playing at left back!!
Which to me is bollox if you don't have another left footed player to play there.
Matthews wasnt incompetent today, he gave away one stupid free kick which unfortunately cost us, otherwise was fine there, felt he did a lot better at LB than Pearce and Pratley at CB (another one of those was also out of position) - Neither Purrington / Maatsen (same as Matthews / Gunter) should think they can put in a weak performance or put in a slack amount on training, simply because they know that they'll get game time simply because the other player in their position is being played in another role or because they're out injured!!
Bowyer explained that after the Doncaster performance, that display he felt was down to players being arrogant enough to think that their positions arent under threat7 -
Another disjointed performance. I always support the team and whoever gets picked during a game.
I can't be arsed to criticized a RB at LB anymore. I said why that was a bad idea in the mini League when Oshilaja played LB in 3 games. It never really works with a Right footer at LB. (Ask Joe Gomez, Solly or Oshilaja)
Most on here including me wanted Aneke and Williams to start but I wanted Morgan and Maddison with them to see if we could get ahead but it was a big gamble to play Maatsen in Midfield and Matthews at LB. Maatsen was erratic in his new position as was Matthews. Ian nearly scored from a good shot and Matthews did a good cross.
Maatsen has potential to play in midfield but not sure today was the day to try it when Morgan and Maddison were on the bench.
I thought we would come back and win 2-1 when we went 1-0 down as long as we sharpened up with our final ball.
I hadn't taken into consideration giving another soft goal away but with the loss of our first choice CB's that shouldn't surprise anyone.
Oshilaja is always a better player when he isn't playing than when he is.
If we don't get another Strong CB to compensate for the injury prone Inniss and Famewo we are looking nailed on for 7th place.
We scored two goals and nearly scored two more but having to score 3 goals to garner 3 points will continue to be a problem.
Since the Burton game we are giving more gifts away than the 3 wise men.
ITK fans are saying Ronnie Schwartz is looking likely but it's paramount we get another CB and a replacement for the home sick Levitt if we can get another loan in.
Not sure if we did drop 2 points today as Plymouth could and should have scored 4 as well.
The game could've easily been a double Bishop Tutu.
Next game our subs are coming on after 5 minutes as they are our main Goalscorers.
Bonkers yes, but so is the torture of watching the Charlton side being more generous than Santa.1 -
Fair enough, but Matthews playing Left-Back today because he's not left footed wasnt what cost us the second goal, lets not think that Matthews playing on the wrong flank was the reasoncafcfan1990 said:
Sorry mate couldn’t disagree more. Absolute bewildering that Bowyer decided to play Maatsen midfield but then not start Purrington. The only arrogance regarding a position not being under threat I can see is from Bowyer. Continues to make baffling decisions and when the results aren’t going for you it makes you look very very stupid.ForeverAddickted said:
At the same time though its fair enough - We've played players out of position before and it hasnt hurt usgolfaddick said:
He was dropped according to Benjy Nurik. Bows said he didnt do enough last week & wanted a more attacking bench.ForeverAddickted said:
Would love to know where Purrington was todaycarly burn said:'Move the ball quicker'You've got a right back with no left foot, playing at left back!!
Which to me is bollox if you don't have another left footed player to play there.
Matthews wasnt incompetent today, he gave away one stupid free kick which unfortunately cost us, otherwise was fine there, felt he did a lot better at LB than Pearce and Pratley at CB (another one of those was also out of position) - Neither Purrington / Maatsen (same as Matthews / Gunter) should think they can put in a weak performance or put in a slack amount on training, simply because they know that they'll get game time simply because the other player in their position is being played in another role or because they're out injured!!
Bowyer explained that after the Doncaster performance, that display he felt was down to players being arrogant enough to think that their positions arent under threat
The reason was he stupidly jumped for a challenge that didnt need to happen, had he not given away a needless free kick then they werent scoring
e.g. We're moaning that Bowyer played someone out of position when he could have played a left-footed player back there, but that player who played there made one error which was in the air!!2 -
Seeing as Plymouth were the away side, a draw was a fair result.0
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I agree. And the comment regarding Purrington was on twitter from Benjy Nurik (a journo)FishCostaFortune said:
If that's correct, that's just a terrible decision. He feels to me like an amateur cricket captain at the moment who constantly just follows the ball around the pitch and tries to move his players to plug the gaps.golfaddick said:
He was dropped according to Benjy Nurik. Bows said he didnt do enough last week & wanted a more attacking bench.ForeverAddickted said:
Would love to know where Purrington was todaycarly burn said:'Move the ball quicker'You've got a right back with no left foot, playing at left back!!
Which to me is bollox if you don't have another left footed player to play there.
Why not play Mattsen at left back and play Williams in that position if you thought he looked so good in training. It's where he played when we dominated AFC Wimbledon second half.
That way you can start Maddison or over the last two games had not done anything to deserve to be benched in my opinion.0 -
Not so long ago we were on that winning run with some were thinking that we would walk this League. Since then we've dropped 14 points out of 24 against sides who are, with the exception of Ipswich, in the bottom half of the table. Others talk about "games in hand" and how ridiculous it is that other teams are allowed to postpone matches against us. But if we can't beat the likes of Swindon, Burton, Gillingham, MK Dons, Plymouth and Shrewsbury, what is the probability of us doing so against Peterborough on our current form?
It's not too late to change things but that is what LB has to do. For a start we have too many players the wrong side of 30 in the side who lack mobility - too much of a reliance on the likes of Watson and Pratley, both 35, who have played 35 games between them.
This is down to LB's lack of trust in the younger and/or more inventive players. The likes of Williams, Maddison and Morgan are dropped, even when they've put in match winning performances, but Gunter, for example, has yet to visit the subs' bench - either before or during the game, And yet the excuse given is that the less than favoured ones are playing too much. We've had a week's break for each of our last three games so it is a struggle to get to grips with that one.
If LB continues with this then we will be in the play offs at best. The worry is that the single minded attitude that got him to the very top as a player might be the strength, overdone, that causes us to not even achieve that.10 -
I wouldn’t disagree with that, although it is more proof for me that Bows is losing the plot.ForeverAddickted said:
Fair enough, but Matthews playing Left-Back today because he's not left footed wasnt what cost us the second goal, lets not think that Matthews playing on the wrong flank was the reasoncafcfan1990 said:
Sorry mate couldn’t disagree more. Absolute bewildering that Bowyer decided to play Maatsen midfield but then not start Purrington. The only arrogance regarding a position not being under threat I can see is from Bowyer. Continues to make baffling decisions and when the results aren’t going for you it makes you look very very stupid.ForeverAddickted said:
At the same time though its fair enough - We've played players out of position before and it hasnt hurt usgolfaddick said:
He was dropped according to Benjy Nurik. Bows said he didnt do enough last week & wanted a more attacking bench.ForeverAddickted said:
Would love to know where Purrington was todaycarly burn said:'Move the ball quicker'You've got a right back with no left foot, playing at left back!!
Which to me is bollox if you don't have another left footed player to play there.
Matthews wasnt incompetent today, he gave away one stupid free kick which unfortunately cost us, otherwise was fine there, felt he did a lot better at LB than Pearce and Pratley at CB (another one of those was also out of position) - Neither Purrington / Maatsen (same as Matthews / Gunter) should think they can put in a weak performance or put in a slack amount on training, simply because they know that they'll get game time simply because the other player in their position is being played in another role or because they're out injured!!
Bowyer explained that after the Doncaster performance, that display he felt was down to players being arrogant enough to think that their positions arent under threat
The reason was he stupidly jumped for a challenge that didnt need to happen, had he not given away a needless free kick then they werent scoring1 -
Why, he's not the first Manager to play a full-back on the other flankcafcfan1990 said:
I wouldn’t disagree with that, although it is more proof for me that Bows is losing the plot.ForeverAddickted said:
Fair enough, but Matthews playing Left-Back today because he's not left footed wasnt what cost us the second goal, lets not think that Matthews playing on the wrong flank was the reasoncafcfan1990 said:
Sorry mate couldn’t disagree more. Absolute bewildering that Bowyer decided to play Maatsen midfield but then not start Purrington. The only arrogance regarding a position not being under threat I can see is from Bowyer. Continues to make baffling decisions and when the results aren’t going for you it makes you look very very stupid.ForeverAddickted said:
At the same time though its fair enough - We've played players out of position before and it hasnt hurt usgolfaddick said:
He was dropped according to Benjy Nurik. Bows said he didnt do enough last week & wanted a more attacking bench.ForeverAddickted said:
Would love to know where Purrington was todaycarly burn said:'Move the ball quicker'You've got a right back with no left foot, playing at left back!!
Which to me is bollox if you don't have another left footed player to play there.
Matthews wasnt incompetent today, he gave away one stupid free kick which unfortunately cost us, otherwise was fine there, felt he did a lot better at LB than Pearce and Pratley at CB (another one of those was also out of position) - Neither Purrington / Maatsen (same as Matthews / Gunter) should think they can put in a weak performance or put in a slack amount on training, simply because they know that they'll get game time simply because the other player in their position is being played in another role or because they're out injured!!
Bowyer explained that after the Doncaster performance, that display he felt was down to players being arrogant enough to think that their positions arent under threat
The reason was he stupidly jumped for a challenge that didnt need to happen, had he not given away a needless free kick then they werent scoring0 -
I think there is a possibility that he is asking too much tactically of players. We certainly should be doing better with the quality we have.0
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Matthews did quite well. We didn't need to use him as our attacking outlet so regularly.1
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How many managers play a full back on the other flank when they’ve already got two natural players ready to play in that position? I’d also argue Gunter has played LB a lot more than Matthews so even then I think he got it the wrong way round!ForeverAddickted said:
Why, he's not the first Manager to play a full-back on the other flankcafcfan1990 said:
I wouldn’t disagree with that, although it is more proof for me that Bows is losing the plot.ForeverAddickted said:
Fair enough, but Matthews playing Left-Back today because he's not left footed wasnt what cost us the second goal, lets not think that Matthews playing on the wrong flank was the reasoncafcfan1990 said:
Sorry mate couldn’t disagree more. Absolute bewildering that Bowyer decided to play Maatsen midfield but then not start Purrington. The only arrogance regarding a position not being under threat I can see is from Bowyer. Continues to make baffling decisions and when the results aren’t going for you it makes you look very very stupid.ForeverAddickted said:
At the same time though its fair enough - We've played players out of position before and it hasnt hurt usgolfaddick said:
He was dropped according to Benjy Nurik. Bows said he didnt do enough last week & wanted a more attacking bench.ForeverAddickted said:
Would love to know where Purrington was todaycarly burn said:'Move the ball quicker'You've got a right back with no left foot, playing at left back!!
Which to me is bollox if you don't have another left footed player to play there.
Matthews wasnt incompetent today, he gave away one stupid free kick which unfortunately cost us, otherwise was fine there, felt he did a lot better at LB than Pearce and Pratley at CB (another one of those was also out of position) - Neither Purrington / Maatsen (same as Matthews / Gunter) should think they can put in a weak performance or put in a slack amount on training, simply because they know that they'll get game time simply because the other player in their position is being played in another role or because they're out injured!!
Bowyer explained that after the Doncaster performance, that display he felt was down to players being arrogant enough to think that their positions arent under threat
The reason was he stupidly jumped for a challenge that didnt need to happen, had he not given away a needless free kick then they werent scoring
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Team for Hull at Home
Amos
Matthews Pratley Aneke JFC
Watson Maatsen Washington Oshilaja
Pearce Purrington15 -
I'll agree on Gunter @ Left-Back over Matthewscafcfan1990 said:
How many managers play a full back on the other flank when they’ve already got two natural players ready to play in that position? I’d also argue Gunter has played LB a lot more than Matthews so even then I think he got it the wrong way round!ForeverAddickted said:
Why, he's not the first Manager to play a full-back on the other flankcafcfan1990 said:
I wouldn’t disagree with that, although it is more proof for me that Bows is losing the plot.ForeverAddickted said:
Fair enough, but Matthews playing Left-Back today because he's not left footed wasnt what cost us the second goal, lets not think that Matthews playing on the wrong flank was the reasoncafcfan1990 said:
Sorry mate couldn’t disagree more. Absolute bewildering that Bowyer decided to play Maatsen midfield but then not start Purrington. The only arrogance regarding a position not being under threat I can see is from Bowyer. Continues to make baffling decisions and when the results aren’t going for you it makes you look very very stupid.ForeverAddickted said:
At the same time though its fair enough - We've played players out of position before and it hasnt hurt usgolfaddick said:
He was dropped according to Benjy Nurik. Bows said he didnt do enough last week & wanted a more attacking bench.ForeverAddickted said:
Would love to know where Purrington was todaycarly burn said:'Move the ball quicker'You've got a right back with no left foot, playing at left back!!
Which to me is bollox if you don't have another left footed player to play there.
Matthews wasnt incompetent today, he gave away one stupid free kick which unfortunately cost us, otherwise was fine there, felt he did a lot better at LB than Pearce and Pratley at CB (another one of those was also out of position) - Neither Purrington / Maatsen (same as Matthews / Gunter) should think they can put in a weak performance or put in a slack amount on training, simply because they know that they'll get game time simply because the other player in their position is being played in another role or because they're out injured!!
Bowyer explained that after the Doncaster performance, that display he felt was down to players being arrogant enough to think that their positions arent under threat
The reason was he stupidly jumped for a challenge that didnt need to happen, had he not given away a needless free kick then they werent scoring
But it shouldnt give Purrington the right to put in a shit performance himself or have a few off days in training because he knows he's likely to get in the team if Maatsen is played elsewhere
Where is the incentive to force him to do better if he's almost guaranteed game time in situations like this?
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As soon as I saw the starting 11, with 2 attacking players I was expecting the worse.
Mind you we did have 4 attacking players on the bench.
Then when we started with players playing out of position, I despaired.
Oshilaja could surely have started at CH?
Matthews at LB, wtf?
Maatsen at, was it centre mid, or left wing, right wing I couldn't keep up.
Bowyer has lost the plot. I know we're missing our best centre halves but that doesn't mean you have to play so many players out of position.
There was no need to play anyone out of position.
We looked once again like a thoroughly disjointed, didn't know who was playing where, bunch of individuals, which is not surprising because that appears to be the plan.
If Curbs was in charge I think that squad would probably get automatic promotion.
My patience with these crazy decisions is wearing thin, but the trouble is they are getting more bizarre as the games roll by.16 -
PWR
A team aspiring towards promotion should win its home games. However, given that there only looked like one team winning it towards the the end, unsurprisingly not us, I'll take the point.
I do wonder whether the late goals we've conceded recently inhibited from going for the jugular once we got back on terms for the second time which, given Plymouth's poor defensive record, was perhaps a shame today.
Still, as Lee would say, it is what it is and somehow we're still top 6 and in touch with the top two. Anyone can beat anyone in this division it seems and it would be great to get something at Hull on January 2nd.
Credit to Maddison and Morgan who made a real impact when they came on. Let's hope Maddison's goal spurs him on to more.
Loved listening to Curbs today. What a manager he was.
COYR6 -
Sod this picking the team based on training too. Pick your best team and if you don't know what that is, try to find out sharpish or make way for somebody who has that simple ability well into the season.5
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When Bowyer starts Maddison, people moan that he’s not starting Williams.golfaddick said:
Spot on. Would love to know why.BetterCallSaul said:Left back in midfield. Right back at left back. Centre mid at centre back. Perfectly decent centre back on the bench. Most creative midfielder on the bench. All that against one of the leakiest defences in the league. That is all
Also no good starting your best 2 strikers & then leaving the creative players (Maddison & Morgan) on the bench. We might be in a decent position with a game in hand but we should be so much higher up - probably 2nd. 4 points dropped in the last 2 games against teams that are in bad run of form & who are leaking goals.
When Bowyer starts Williams, people moan that he’s not starting Maddison.8 -
Simple solution. Start them both then.3
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Thought Minto had a very strong game again.
Curbs was masterful.
Euell getting the fourth against Chelsea probably the highlight of the afternoon.
Sandgaard's hotel looked nice.
Tony from Dartford responded well to his Range Rover win despite hosting 42 guests plus Dominic Cummings and his wife for Christmas Dinner.34 - Sponsored links:
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MuttleyCAFC said:Simple solution. Start them both then.
Did you want Bowyer to match them up in a 3-5-2 like Curbs said or do you want him to play both luxury players? There's no way Williams and Maddison can play together in a central midfield three.
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Dont worry if we lose when we start both it'll be because Pratley started over OshilajaCallumcafc said:
When Bowyer starts Maddison, people moan that he’s not starting Williams.golfaddick said:
Spot on. Would love to know why.BetterCallSaul said:Left back in midfield. Right back at left back. Centre mid at centre back. Perfectly decent centre back on the bench. Most creative midfielder on the bench. All that against one of the leakiest defences in the league. That is all
Also no good starting your best 2 strikers & then leaving the creative players (Maddison & Morgan) on the bench. We might be in a decent position with a game in hand but we should be so much higher up - probably 2nd. 4 points dropped in the last 2 games against teams that are in bad run of form & who are leaking goals.
When Bowyer starts Williams, people moan that he’s not starting Maddison.
Fans know that Bowyer has only picked the right team when we win, unfortunately they have the hindsight to know if we've won or not
Whereas Bowyer wont have that advantage before picking the team what'll actually happen
Because the opposition will come along with their own game plan!!
And lets not pretend, as even when the team sheet gets announced, the en mass comments will start saying Bowyer has got it wrong, even if we go on to win3 -
Whose fault is it if we play both and still dont win?MuttleyCAFC said:Simple solution. Start them both then.0 -
What about we win or we lose as a team not this blame game Bowyer does all the time but is never at fault himself with his awful team selection & tactics!0
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There’s a lot of weeping about Matthews playing at LB but it’s not like he hasn’t played there before in his career. If he’s good enough to play there in a win against Barcelona then I think it’s not too ridiculous to play him there against Plymouth. It’s not like he specifically cost us the game. I’m sure the people complaining about Matthews playing at LB are the same who get annoyed about Purrington even existing most of the time5
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Bowyer's selection / tactics should have won the game today though... I dont think he got much wrong in that regarddajavouslagan said:What about we win or we lose as a team not this blame game Bowyer does all the time but is never at fault himself with his awful team selection & tactics!
How can his decisions ensure that one Centre-Back doesnt go walkies (how do you know Oshilaja wouldnt have done worse?) or his Full-Back stupidly jump for a challenge that was likely to result in a foul?
Bowyer can only instruct his players so much, it comes to the point when they themselves have to take the blame
Matthews and Pratley for their brief moments of stupidity have to take responsibility for that3 -
It was a tongue in cheek response to a previous comment. There isn't one way, there are different options. But square pegs in round holes when it isn't forced on you might not be the right one.Callumcafc said:MuttleyCAFC said:Simple solution. Start them both then.
Did you want Bowyer to match them up in a 3-5-2 like Curbs said or do you want him to play both luxury players? There's no way Williams and Maddison can play together in a central midfield three.
I do think that if you know you have better players, it is normally a good idea to match up. Maybe Bowyer rates the players less than I do.
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Deji is a CB (a CB who Bowyer signed) and yet he thinks Pratley is a better option? That’s just odd, especially alongside Pearce as it’s slow. I do appreciate your optimism but I think Bowyer would have to murder your family for you to consider criticising him.ForeverAddickted said:
Dont worry if we lose when we start both it'll be because Pratley started over OshilajaCallumcafc said:
When Bowyer starts Maddison, people moan that he’s not starting Williams.golfaddick said:
Spot on. Would love to know why.BetterCallSaul said:Left back in midfield. Right back at left back. Centre mid at centre back. Perfectly decent centre back on the bench. Most creative midfielder on the bench. All that against one of the leakiest defences in the league. That is all
Also no good starting your best 2 strikers & then leaving the creative players (Maddison & Morgan) on the bench. We might be in a decent position with a game in hand but we should be so much higher up - probably 2nd. 4 points dropped in the last 2 games against teams that are in bad run of form & who are leaking goals.
When Bowyer starts Williams, people moan that he’s not starting Maddison.
Fans know that Bowyer has only picked the right team when we win, unfortunately they have the hindsight to know if we've won or not
Whereas Bowyer wont have that advantage before picking the team what'll actually happen
Because the opposition will come along with their own game plan!!
And lets not pretend, as even when the team sheet gets announced, the en mass comments will start saying Bowyer has got it wrong, even if we go on to win2 -
Matthews really wasn't THAT bad, in fact I thought he largely did fine. Was certainly no Solly at left back type of performance where he was scared to venture over halfway.
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It wasn't that Matthews was terrible, it is more that Maatson is a better left back and we are not short of midfield options.6
