Attention: Please take a moment to consider our terms and conditions before posting.

Has Bowyer lost it?

1152154156157158

Comments

  • It's going to be interesting to see the number of people who now come out of the woodwork saying 'actually, I've always hated Lee Bowyer, he's always been a racist/thug/bully and I've never agreed with him being manager. I just didn't say anything much over the past 3 years because we were winning the football'. Bold stance bros.
    3 posters in the previous page have already taken/begun to take this stance. Sadly can only see that increasing as it seems to be the thing to do these days as negativity spreads. 
  • It's going to be interesting to see the number of people who now come out of the woodwork saying 'actually, I've always hated Lee Bowyer, he's always been a racist/thug/bully and I've never agreed with him being manager. I just didn't say anything much over the past 3 years because we were winning the football'. Bold stance bros.
    seems to be happening already. 

    met him a couple of times since he's been manager and he was always willing to have a chat about football with me and the kids.

    really sad to see how things are now going and I can only see 1 ending unfortunately.
  • Re the Williams story... ive heard something similar. Crying wasnt mentioned but i wouldnt be surprised
  • It's going to be interesting to see the number of people who now come out of the woodwork saying 'actually, I've always hated Lee Bowyer, he's always been a racist/thug/bully and I've never agreed with him being manager. I just didn't say anything much over the past 3 years because we were winning the football'. Bold stance bros.
    3 posters in the previous page have already taken/begun to take this stance. Sadly can only see that increasing as it seems to be the thing to do these days as negativity spreads. 
    Disappoints me as whilst Im sure few very of our fanbase have done as bad (if not worse) as Bowyer did in his career... It would surprise me if we have a lot of saints who dont have a period in their lives that they're not proud of, I know I do!!

    Who are we to decide if someone isnt allowed to have redemption from those actions and should be forever scarred by the stupidity of those moments? 
  • Uboat said:
    If you want a perfect example of the selective blindness that loyalty causes, some posters are only just realising that Bowyer might not be a very nice person. 
    Nailed it - I have noticed this as well. As I have mentioned before, this is the man who:

    Banned for 8 weeks by Charlton for his drug habits. Only played 40 odd games before leaving but somehow his time is treated as a messiah 

    Charged with affray, trashing a fast food restaurant and making racist remarks to the owner.

    Once again caught up in an incident with (again) an Asian guy outside a nightclub which he got off with but begs the question why he got himself caught up in the first place.

    Fought his own player on the pitch swinging punches left right and centre.

    Now multiple rumours of bullying on the training ground.

    ‘One of our own’? Not in my book.

    Powelly may not have been the greatest manager with us Hudders and Southend. But when someone says One of Our Own and Proper Charlton - step forward that man. Ten times classier than what we currently have.
    I never really understood the praise he gets when parker generally gets pelters but they both moved on to better things in similar situations. Parer played 3x as many games as Bowyer also.
  • Cafc43v3r said:
    Good article, again. Remember that this chap gets the chance to interview Bowyer and also view things as a real "outsider" but with good knowledge of the club, setup and fanbase.

    As the form and situation is not changing, I expect the tone to change.
  • edited March 2021
    J BLOCK said:
    So if I'm correct the current state of play on behind the scenes dressing room harmony is that:

    @Covered_End_Lad - has mentioned an incident where Bowyer reduced Williams to tears and other senior pros had to step in. 

    @MuttleyCAFC - has mentioned that Bowyer is apparently wierd/unsupportive around the younger players.

    @J-Block - was told by a player in the dressing room the Bowyer has lost the plot.

    If these things are true. The two questions I have are:

    Why was the dressing room apparently so great during our promotion year. What's happened to change that ethos.

    If things are as bad behind the scenes as people are making out, why would it change under a new set of players, and indeed would good players would even want to come to us? 


    Bowyer has done a 180 from the man we saw in the promotion winning era. From his interviews, tactics, man management the list goes on, he has totally changed.  
    I don’t think he has changed. I think his limitations are now coming to the fore. It’s already been said but two years ago he had the likes of Cullen, Bielik, Bauer, Aribo, Taylor to carry him through. He didn’t need to manage, all was good. Now that the going has got tough, he doesn’t know how to deal with situations and his defensive mechanism is to, amongst other things, slag the players off in public. An experienced manager in any walk of life wouldn’t do that. They’d take responsibility, put things right and sort things out behind closed doors and not wash dirty linen in public. He’s not a manager, he’s an experienced ex-pro who used to play for Charlton. If he’s to stay, he’ll need help. 
  • I used to love hearing Bows speak, I'd watch back interviews, sky plussed the training ground programme they done and rewatched a few times.

    He was almost gushy about the players club, his ambitions but its been a slow decline since Swansea at home 2019 with nothing really new or inventive on the pitch. 

    I dug him out a bit at half time of Sunderland game in October and said he needs to step up as a coach which got quite a few LOLs at the time. 

    After that game we went on a 7 game run but I honestly felt we were poor bar Ipswich away.

    I'd love nothing more than for us to win every game and make me look a dickhead but I just fear the players have downed tools. 

    I'll still watch every game regardless but it's more out of scratching my head and praying we can't be worse than the last game. 



    Exactly how i feel.

    As I said the other day, I want him to go so I don’t end up disliking him. Some of the stuff he’s done over the last 6 months I’ve not been a fan of and he’s acted like a wanker at times. 
  • For me, the tell-tale signs we are going nowhere:

    - Our anomaly this season was actually the 6 game win/clean sheet run it now appears
    - We are top of the Red and Yellow card count for the league. Usually a sign of many things. 
    - I'm turning into the current Squad and CBA to finish this off after starting it in an okay fashion, as it's harder to apply myself to do so, than just give up.
  • Sponsored links:


  • _MrDick said:
    J BLOCK said:
    So if I'm correct the current state of play on behind the scenes dressing room harmony is that:

    @Covered_End_Lad - has mentioned an incident where Bowyer reduced Williams to tears and other senior pros had to step in. 

    @MuttleyCAFC - has mentioned that Bowyer is apparently wierd/unsupportive around the younger players.

    @J-Block - was told by a player in the dressing room the Bowyer has lost the plot.

    If these things are true. The two questions I have are:

    Why was the dressing room apparently so great during our promotion year. What's happened to change that ethos.

    If things are as bad behind the scenes as people are making out, why would it change under a new set of players, and indeed would good players would even want to come to us? 


    Bowyer has done a 180 from the man we saw in the promotion winning era. From his interviews, tactics, man management the list goes on, he has totally changed.  
    I don’t think he has changed. I think his limitations are now coming to the fore. It’s already been said but two years ago he had the likes of Cullen, Bielik, Bauer, Aribo, Taylor to carry him through. He didn’t need to manage, all was good. Now that the going has got tough, he doesn’t know how to deal with situations and his defensive mechanism is to, amongst other things, slag the players off in public. An experienced manager in any walk of life wouldn’t do that. They’d take responsibility, put things right and sort things out behind closed doors and not wash dirty linen in public. 
    Its fair to say he had Cullen, Bielik and Taylor (amongst others) to drag him through but its worth remembering too that it was him who brought them in... Wasnt just luck that he came in when they were already here.

    As already mentioned countless times (which people say is just an excuse now) but the transfer embargo meant we lost out to first choice targets, then the Salary Cap came in which made life that little bit harder as the Cullen's, Bielik's and Taylor's had already been snapped up by other teams... Eg: Clarke-Harris 
  • JamesSeed said:
    J BLOCK said:
    So if I'm correct the current state of play on behind the scenes dressing room harmony is that:

    @Covered_End_Lad - has mentioned an incident where Bowyer reduced Williams to tears and other senior pros had to step in. 

    @MuttleyCAFC - has mentioned that Bowyer is apparently wierd/unsupportive around the younger players.

    @J-Block - was told by a player in the dressing room the Bowyer has lost the plot.

    If these things are true. The two questions I have are:

    Why was the dressing room apparently so great during our promotion year. What's happened to change that ethos.

    If things are as bad behind the scenes as people are making out, why would it change under a new set of players, and indeed would good players would even want to come to us? 


    Bowyer has done a 180 from the man we saw in the promotion winning era. From his interviews, tactics, man management the list goes on, he has totally changed.  
    Has he changed, or is it that he’s not a manager with a plan (or the temperament) for when things start going wrong?
    I have said previously that I thought that LB was lucky, as proven by the dozen or so players now plying their trade at Championship or higher, in our promotion year.

    There had been an under current of reasons/blame for the situation we found ourselves in last season with the likes of Solly and Taylor being the ones at the head of that queue. That then progressed to the extent that he started to hold individuals responsible and accountable for defeats. I questioned the lambasting of Bonne immediately after the game but was told that this was just LB being honest and that the player needs to "grow some" if he didn't like it. This is what he said:

    “You can say that’s cost us but Macauley [Bonne] has to score. You can’t keep missing chances like that. Three yards out. Connects with the ball properly and you score. Can’t miss chances like that. It ain’t good enough."

    LB might have been right about that but you cannot say that in private let alone public because all it does is to reinforce the doubts a player might have about himself and it also demonstrates a fundamental lack of support from the manager. Do that then to at least a dozen individuals and all of a sudden you have lost the dressing room because those players have no way of responding on the same basis i.e. via the press.

    I hated that at the time. 

    Apart from anything else, you can bollock someone into working harder (sometimes), but you can NEVER bollock someone into being better. Indeed goalscorers are nearly always at their best when they're calm and confident, and the way to do that is to build them up not slag them off
  • It's going to be interesting to see the number of people who now come out of the woodwork saying 'actually, I've always hated Lee Bowyer, he's always been a racist/thug/bully and I've never agreed with him being manager. I just didn't say anything much over the past 3 years because we were winning the football'. Bold stance bros.
    3 posters in the previous page have already taken/begun to take this stance. Sadly can only see that increasing as it seems to be the thing to do these days as negativity spreads. 
    Disappoints me as whilst Im sure few very of our fanbase have done as bad (if not worse) as Bowyer did in his career... It would surprise me if we have a lot of saints who dont have a period in their lives that they're not proud of, I know I do!!

    Who are we to decide if someone isnt allowed to have redemption from those actions and should be forever scarred by the stupidity of those moments? 
    It's not necessarily about "redemption" though. I was one of those to mention it and specifically said that he SHOULD have a chance to redeem himself.

    But the fact remains that whether true or not, it's much easier to believe rumours of bullying and bad treatment of people from someone who has done such things before. That's a fact.

    If we had ever heard such things about Powell then they'd have been laughed off. Bowyer? Not so much. And that is at least partially self-inflicted.
  • Fishing is the problem or lack of it. Think it’s fair to say that historically LB has been quite a volatile character and perhaps it’s fishing that’s calmed him down. He came to us a for me a surprisingly chilled person and it would appear has slowly got worse. Perhaps fishing is Lees’s therapy which sadly isn’t conducive with being a football manager. Just a thought and not meant to be flippant.
    I agree

    I think the events of last season PLUS being away from his bolthole really took their toll on him. He looks like someone who needs to get away from football for a period of time, and get back to his lake for a period of recovery and reflection. 

    His managerial career can still continue afterwards if he wants it, he still have positive ticks beside his name
  • _MrDick said:
    J BLOCK said:
    So if I'm correct the current state of play on behind the scenes dressing room harmony is that:

    @Covered_End_Lad - has mentioned an incident where Bowyer reduced Williams to tears and other senior pros had to step in. 

    @MuttleyCAFC - has mentioned that Bowyer is apparently wierd/unsupportive around the younger players.

    @J-Block - was told by a player in the dressing room the Bowyer has lost the plot.

    If these things are true. The two questions I have are:

    Why was the dressing room apparently so great during our promotion year. What's happened to change that ethos.

    If things are as bad behind the scenes as people are making out, why would it change under a new set of players, and indeed would good players would even want to come to us? 


    Bowyer has done a 180 from the man we saw in the promotion winning era. From his interviews, tactics, man management the list goes on, he has totally changed.  
    I don’t think he has changed. I think his limitations are now coming to the fore. It’s already been said but two years ago he had the likes of Cullen, Bielik, Bauer, Aribo, Taylor to carry him through. He didn’t need to manage, all was good. Now that the going has got tough, he doesn’t know how to deal with situations and his defensive mechanism is to, amongst other things, slag the players off in public. An experienced manager in any walk of life wouldn’t do that. They’d take responsibility, put things right and sort things out behind closed doors and not wash dirty linen in public. He’s not a manager, he’s an experienced ex-pro who used to play for Charlton. If he’s to stay, he’ll need help. 
    You believe a team with young talented  players doesn’t need a manager? Or have I misread your post? 
  • edited March 2021
    To be fair to Bowyer, not many managers have had to endure what he has. Maybe he hasn't dealt with that well in himself. Maybe he needed a bit of help. Lots more maybes but I won't go on.

    Whatever the final outcome, and we are probably nearing it, nobody is going to win here. It has to be about damage limitation. 
  • _MrDick said:
    J BLOCK said:
    So if I'm correct the current state of play on behind the scenes dressing room harmony is that:

    @Covered_End_Lad - has mentioned an incident where Bowyer reduced Williams to tears and other senior pros had to step in. 

    @MuttleyCAFC - has mentioned that Bowyer is apparently wierd/unsupportive around the younger players.

    @J-Block - was told by a player in the dressing room the Bowyer has lost the plot.

    If these things are true. The two questions I have are:

    Why was the dressing room apparently so great during our promotion year. What's happened to change that ethos.

    If things are as bad behind the scenes as people are making out, why would it change under a new set of players, and indeed would good players would even want to come to us? 


    Bowyer has done a 180 from the man we saw in the promotion winning era. From his interviews, tactics, man management the list goes on, he has totally changed.  
    I don’t think he has changed. I think his limitations are now coming to the fore. It’s already been said but two years ago he had the likes of Cullen, Bielik, Bauer, Aribo, Taylor to carry him through. He didn’t need to manage, all was good. Now that the going has got tough, he doesn’t know how to deal with situations and his defensive mechanism is to, amongst other things, slag the players off in public. An experienced manager in any walk of life wouldn’t do that. They’d take responsibility, put things right and sort things out behind closed doors and not wash dirty linen in public. 

    Absolutely.

    Bowyer can not fix this problem. That is the problem. He can only perform the job correctly if he is in a positive mood and naturally respects the players. It's one dimensional.

    He has not thought ahead and he's not been objective. 

    He's now, simply, just a barking dog.

    Hope he takes a look at himself. He's shooting himself in the foot and not doing the club any favours. Getting embarrassing. Why not at least take some responsibility.

    Wigan away at 6pm. They're in the bottom 3.

    If I can get bits and bobs done, tempted to stream. Maybe I'm a tad insane.

    I still like him and think he has a lot of positive aspects, but the bad is currently outweighing the good and he is not appropriate for the club at the moment.

    The 2 things currently don't connect.
  • It's going to be interesting to see the number of people who now come out of the woodwork saying 'actually, I've always hated Lee Bowyer, he's always been a racist/thug/bully and I've never agreed with him being manager. I just didn't say anything much over the past 3 years because we were winning the football'. Bold stance bros.
    3 posters in the previous page have already taken/begun to take this stance. Sadly can only see that increasing as it seems to be the thing to do these days as negativity spreads. 
    That’s right. My dislike of Bowyer stems entirely from the fact that it’s ‘the thing to do these days’. 

    Idiot. 
  • Sponsored links:


  • Wouldn't surprise me if Bowyer's "bullying" attitude comes from the era of Football he was in combined with it being a cut throat Sport as it is for kids anyway.

    Havent Beardsley and Bellamy been accused by youth players at their respective clubs of bullying which saw each of them sacked? - Is that because they're pricks or because they simply giving players the blunt truth that if they don't put in the hard work they ask of their teams, those individuals dont stand a chance of reach the same sort of heights. 
  • edited March 2021
    _MrDick said:
    J BLOCK said:
    So if I'm correct the current state of play on behind the scenes dressing room harmony is that:

    @Covered_End_Lad - has mentioned an incident where Bowyer reduced Williams to tears and other senior pros had to step in. 

    @MuttleyCAFC - has mentioned that Bowyer is apparently wierd/unsupportive around the younger players.

    @J-Block - was told by a player in the dressing room the Bowyer has lost the plot.

    If these things are true. The two questions I have are:

    Why was the dressing room apparently so great during our promotion year. What's happened to change that ethos.

    If things are as bad behind the scenes as people are making out, why would it change under a new set of players, and indeed would good players would even want to come to us? 


    Bowyer has done a 180 from the man we saw in the promotion winning era. From his interviews, tactics, man management the list goes on, he has totally changed.  
    I don’t think he has changed. I think his limitations are now coming to the fore. It’s already been said but two years ago he had the likes of Cullen, Bielik, Bauer, Aribo, Taylor to carry him through. He didn’t need to manage, all was good. Now that the going has got tough, he doesn’t know how to deal with situations and his defensive mechanism is to, amongst other things, slag the players off in public. An experienced manager in any walk of life wouldn’t do that. They’d take responsibility, put things right and sort things out behind closed doors and not wash dirty linen in public. He’s not a manager, he’s an experienced ex-pro who used to play for Charlton. If he’s to stay, he’ll need help. 
    You believe a team with young talented  players doesn’t need a manager? Or have I misread your post? 
    In my opinion, he was fortunate to have that group of players. Yes, they had to be coached but he didn’t really need to manage them because (a) they were good players (b) they adhered to tactics and (c) they weren’t up themselves. We hear Curbs talk about Charlton type players. The lot we have at the moment aren’t team players. They just do what they want to. That needs to be managed and Lee Bowyer ain’t up to it. If we believe what we hear, Bullying someone will never get the best out them.  
  • We will all have breaking points. Some of us are lucky enough not to have them tested. Others aren't.
  • I used to love hearing Bows speak, I'd watch back interviews, sky plussed the training ground programme they done and rewatched a few times.

    He was almost gushy about the players club, his ambitions but its been a slow decline since Swansea at home 2019 with nothing really new or inventive on the pitch. 

    I dug him out a bit at half time of Sunderland game in October and said he needs to step up as a coach which got quite a few LOLs at the time. 

    After that game we went on a 7 game run but I honestly felt we were poor bar Ipswich away.

    I'd love nothing more than for us to win every game and make me look a dickhead but I just fear the players have downed tools. 

    I'll still watch every game regardless but it's more out of scratching my head and praying we can't be worse than the last game. 



    Exactly how i feel.

    As I said the other day, I want him to go so I don’t end up disliking him. Some of the stuff he’s done over the last 6 months I’ve not been a fan of and he’s acted like a wanker at times. 
    Agree mate although I'd love nothing more than for us to turn things around and he was our manager pushing on again as a club but it's gone a bit too far now. 

    I don't want anybody to fail let alone manager of my football club. 
  • Uboat said:
    If you want a perfect example of the selective blindness that loyalty causes, some posters are only just realising that Bowyer might not be a very nice person. 
    Nailed it - I have noticed this as well. As I have mentioned before, this is the man who:

    Banned for 8 weeks by Charlton for his drug habits. Only played 40 odd games before leaving but somehow his time is treated as a messiah 

    Charged with affray, trashing a fast food restaurant and making racist remarks to the owner.

    Once again caught up in an incident with (again) an Asian guy outside a nightclub which he got off with but begs the question why he got himself caught up in the first place.

    Fought his own player on the pitch swinging punches left right and centre.

    Now multiple rumours of bullying on the training ground.

    ‘One of our own’? Not in my book.

    Powelly may not have been the greatest manager with us Hudders and Southend. But when someone says One of Our Own and Proper Charlton - step forward that man. Ten times classier than what we currently have.

    Come on really. Dragging up some things from the past and one that he was found not guilty for to say he is not a nice person is ridiculous. 

    Apart from rumours of bullying that seems to come from reports of him making JW cry what has he done in the last few years to make you think he is not a nice person? 

    With regards to if he did make JW cry we do not know in what context it happened, JW might have been sensitive and got upset, Bowyer may have lost it and apologised we just don't know enough to start claims of bullying/not a nice person. Its the sort of thing that will now be gospel and taken as fact. 

    Its clear Bowyer has lost the dressing to me and it may because of instances within the dressing room and poor man management but that doe snot make him not a nice person. 


    I’m pretty sure that whenever he came back to Charlton as either a Leeds or West Ham player all of the above dominated any talk around him and if I remember he riled the fans up left right and centre when he was on the pitch. It got toxic but that’s now forgotten.

    Back to the point on Powell. Yes this is stuff in the past, but I am pretty sure Chris Powell, Matt Holland, Mark Kinsella, Keith Jones, Claus Jensen, Andy Hunt, Clive Mendonda etc etc don’t have a Cv like that. Managers show character when the going is tough - it’s all well and good saying he was nice at the start but this isn’t getting any easier and I think it’s fair enough to question his suitability for the role (in the current circumstances) based on character up to now.

    Tbh I interviewed someone for a senior role at my business and when I searched for examples of their work found a story on the Mail that they got caught up in a sexism case at the Beeb and were fired. That was in the past but sorry I wasn’t willing to take that person on board.

    And before anyone asks - no I have never taken drugs, smashed up a McDonalds, or even come close to a situation like at Leeds.

    Ive also never had a successful football career - but then again I’m unlikely to manage a club anytime soon so not really relevant.
This discussion has been closed.

Roland Out Forever!