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Has Bowyer lost it?
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That could be a fair point and explain the defeats to Hull, Peterborough, Pompey. Do you genuinely think the squad wasn't/isn't good enough to beat Shrewsbury, Rochdale, Gillingham, Burton, Swindon etc?The Red Robin said:Squad isn’t good enough. Simple as that.
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I am getting rather tired of several things:
1) looking at the team sheet virtually every fixture and wondering why we are playing certain players, not playing players who have just done well, playing players out of formation
2) watching fairly ordinary teams play one or two passes straight through our defence and then score while we Labour the ball around the back and in midfield waiting for them to get 10 men behind the ball before trying and failing to get anywhere near the goal
3) our inability to dominate a game
but by far and away the thing that is depressing me more than these are the several posters on here who seem to continuously have it in for Bowyer and insist on coming in here and hammering the point home fixture after fixture after fixture without fail. Ok, we get it, you think Bowyer has lost it and you think he should be replaced as soon as possible. Do you not get bored of repeating yourselves over and over?
Others, including myself, have different views, there’s clearly something not working atm, and we need to find a settled team, go in a run, get a bit of luck sometimes.
Lockdown is depressing enough as it is. Lighten up.12 -
Look at Lincoln City. Do you think individually their squad is stronger? The difference is that their manager has average individuals playing together as a strong team. He has sold them on the idea and they have belief.The Red Robin said:Squad isn’t good enough. Simple as that.7 -
But why shouldnt people come on here and make their views known? If we continuously have it in for Bowyer it is because we believe that the problem is Bowyer and as long as that doesn't change what else is there to say. Sorry you don't like to read it, but as long as Bowyer is the manager and, in the opinion of some, continues to fail in that role it is right that people continue to say so.Alwaysneil said:I am getting rather tired of several things:
1) looking at the team sheet virtually every fixture and wondering why we are playing certain players, not playing players who have just done well, playing players out of formation
2) watching fairly ordinary teams play one or two passes straight through our defence and then score while we Labour the ball around the back and in midfield waiting for them to get 10 men behind the ball before trying and failing to get anywhere near the goal
3) our inability to dominate a game
but by far and away the thing that is depressing me more than these are the several posters on here who seem to continuously have it in for Bowyer and insist on coming in here and hammering the point home fixture after fixture after fixture without fail. Ok, we get it, you think Bowyer has lost it and you think he should be replaced as soon as possible. Do you not get bored of repeating yourselves over and over?
Others, including myself, have different views, there’s clearly something not working atm, and we need to find a settled team, go in a run, get a bit of luck sometimes.
Lockdown is depressing enough as it is. Lighten up.8 -
If our signing plan had emulated Lincoln's, our fan base would have hit the roof. Many would have been calling TS potless. The fact they have been so successful is both lucky and clever. If the plan hadn't worked, they've not overspent, if it works they go up with no financial worries and start in championship with a bucket of cash to spend.1
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If you see the number of games to save our season declining and you passionately believe it can be saved, how can you just shut up and forget about it?6
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I collected a lot of lol’s for suggesting they would be in the top six at the end of the season, and yes, I think their squad was stronger than ours. Maybe still is. It would be wrong IMO to assume that little old Lincoln are punching above their weight or a bit lucky with their manager.Wheresmeticket? said:
Look at Lincoln City. Do you think individually their squad is stronger? The difference is that their manager has average individuals playing together as a strong team. He has sold them on the idea and they have belief.The Red Robin said:Squad isn’t good enough. Simple as that.
Cowley Bros took over at the end of 2015/16 season.
In 2016/17 they beat Ipswich, Oldham and Brighton to go into the 5th round of the FA cup, and then beat Burnley to get into the quarter finals as a non league club! 2017/18 they won the EFL Cup at Wembley. 2018/19 promotion to League 1.
Lincoln is a well run club, and one that has been well run for several years. One based on stability, good planning, and good signings. Steadily built over several years. They have a committed squad of players because of that. They are not lucky. They have worked hard.
They are light years away from where we are. We should be learning from them, but you carry on.4 -
Alwaysneil said:I am getting rather tired of several things:
1) looking at the team sheet virtually every fixture and wondering why we are playing certain players, not playing players who have just done well, playing players out of formation
2) watching fairly ordinary teams play one or two passes straight through our defence and then score while we Labour the ball around the back and in midfield waiting for them to get 10 men behind the ball before trying and failing to get anywhere near the goal
3) our inability to dominate a game
but by far and away the thing that is depressing me more than these are the several posters on here who seem to continuously have it in for Bowyer and insist on coming in here and hammering the point home fixture after fixture after fixture without fail. Ok, we get it, you think Bowyer has lost it and you think he should be replaced as soon as possible. Do you not get bored of repeating yourselves over and over?
Others, including myself, have different views, there’s clearly something not working atm, and we need to find a settled team, go in a run, get a bit of luck sometimes.
Lockdown is depressing enough as it is. Lighten up.
But this is a football forum7 -
Are they average? I expect they have at least a few stand out players who will be impressing at a higher level in the next few years. Many of our better players in our promotion sides went on to do exactly that.Wheresmeticket? said:
Look at Lincoln City. Do you think individually their squad is stronger? The difference is that their manager has average individuals playing together as a strong team. He has sold them on the idea and they have belief.The Red Robin said:Squad isn’t good enough. Simple as that.
We've got a lot of older players in this squad and not many younger players who I could see going on to do that. Morgan, Famewo, Maatsen, Millar, Smith (too early to tell), maybe Inniss.
Thinking about it it feels as though Bowyer and Gallen focused too much on experience and the majority of our squad are players past their peak. They're all different but between them they don't quite have the hunger, pace, sharpness or fitness to give us that edge in games.
Jaiyesimi is a good start and I hope we focus on building a younger squad for the long term in the summer.3 -
Lucky? Seriously?The Prince-e-Paul said:If our signing plan had emulated Lincoln's, our fan base would have hit the roof. Many would have been calling TS potless. The fact they have been so successful is both lucky and clever. If the plan hadn't worked, they've not overspent, if it works they go up with no financial worries and start in championship with a bucket of cash to spend.4 - Sponsored links:
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Didn't they completely change there whole squad in the 2020 transfer windows. About 15-20 in and out and a massive reduction in average age.Redrobo said:
I collected a lot of lol’s for suggesting they would be in the top six at the end of the season, and yes, I think their squad was stronger than ours. Maybe still is. It would be wrong IMO to assume that little old Lincoln are punching above their weight or a bit lucky with their manager.Wheresmeticket? said:
Look at Lincoln City. Do you think individually their squad is stronger? The difference is that their manager has average individuals playing together as a strong team. He has sold them on the idea and they have belief.The Red Robin said:Squad isn’t good enough. Simple as that.
Cowley Bros took over at the end of 2015/16 season.
In 2016/17 they beat Ipswich, Oldham and Brighton to go into the 5th round of the FA cup, and then beat Burnley to get into the quarter finals as a non league club! 2017/18 they won the EFL Cup at Wembley. 2018/19 promotion to League 1.
Lincoln is a well run club, and one that has been well run for several years. One based on stability, good planning, and good signings. Steadily built over several years. They have a committed squad of players because of that. They are not lucky. They have worked hard.
They are light years away from where we are. We should be learning from them, but you carry on.0 -
I’m guessing Bowyer’s feeling the pressure of having actual people in charge who are bothered and interested in how we do. That must be why he’s said some weird stuff in anger after games.I’m at a loss to explain why we aren’t playing fluid, paced counter attacking football anymore. He’s become more defensive as time has gone on, possibly base a result of how up against it we were last year. And as a result of knowing our CBs aren’t good this year. I really think Josh Cullen had the team built around him the last 2 years and this is exactly why things have changed. He had everything, totally complete midfielder. Rarely less than a 7/10. He totally trusted him and when he was injured we knew about it.I think given time bowyer would certainly sort this out. This is his squad, and the first time he’s been able to build a whole team that he wanted really (read T.Driesen). I think he needs time as this squad was thrown together. Do I think results and performances have been good enough - no I don’t. But I think it’ll get better if we show patience. I also get so disappointed when I think about our fans on here saying “I’ll do anything to get Roland out, anything!” , “All we want us a club to support” and “We can start again in non league if we need to” just to have a team to follow. Yet now, a few months after we’ve been bought by TS, Bowyer isn’t enough and promotion is do or die. It’s not. There are 24 teams in the league. I really feel like this website has become toxic. It’s probably the same on all sites but at least when Roland was here we united (mostly) and aimed it towards and enemy rather than someone FIRMLY ON OUR SIDE. He’s a young manager who has been heavily coveted for the last few seasons (he had chances to leave and wanted to stay with us btw).Do I think Bowyer should get unlimited time? Of course not, but I think it’s too soon, despite under-achieving so far this year. We overachieved last year on a shoestring budget so maybe he’s even! He stuck by us when we were absolutely down and out and he was the only thing keeping us interested. Remember how we felt under Slade, Fraeye, etc. Bowyer has managed in league 1 twice and reached the playoffs twice and he will again, imo.9
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Bowyer has always treated certain players badly. Fosu for example, that went under the radar because we were winning!
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Even the top managers don't get the most out of every player - is getting the best out of every player a realistic expectation? Sometimes players move on, learn from it and come back stronger.Todds_right_hook said:Bowyer has always treated certain players badly. Fosu for example, that went under the radar because we were winning!2 -
It’s a certain type of player that bowyer can’t seem to manage and criticises, fosu, Maddison, Williams, Morgan. All players that can create and add something different in the final thirdScoham said:
Even the top managers don't get the most out of every player - is getting the best out of every player a realistic expectation? Sometimes players move on, learn from it and come back stronger.Todds_right_hook said:Bowyer has always treated certain players badly. Fosu for example, that went under the radar because we were winning!3 -
Can you add Morgan to that list? - Could argue that Morgan is actually responding to Bowyer's comments and is raising his gameTodds_right_hook said:
It’s a certain type of player that bowyer can’t seem to manage and criticises, fosu, Maddison, Williams, Morgan. All players that can create and add something different in the final thirdScoham said:
Even the top managers don't get the most out of every player - is getting the best out of every player a realistic expectation? Sometimes players move on, learn from it and come back stronger.Todds_right_hook said:Bowyer has always treated certain players badly. Fosu for example, that went under the radar because we were winning!
You only need to take a look at how better Albie has gotten at defending - Granted last night he wasnt great but then thats going to happen occasionally, its all part of a players development2 -
Yes, he is a flair player that received criticism from bowyer. Players like Pearce and Watson who have very little flair, seem to escape criticismForeverAddickted said:
Can you add Morgan to that list? - Could argue that Morgan is actually responding to Bowyer's comments and is raising his gameTodds_right_hook said:
It’s a certain type of player that bowyer can’t seem to manage and criticises, fosu, Maddison, Williams, Morgan. All players that can create and add something different in the final thirdScoham said:
Even the top managers don't get the most out of every player - is getting the best out of every player a realistic expectation? Sometimes players move on, learn from it and come back stronger.Todds_right_hook said:Bowyer has always treated certain players badly. Fosu for example, that went under the radar because we were winning!4 -
To say Bowyer cant manage him though is bullshitTodds_right_hook said:
Yes, he is a flair player that received criticism from bowyer. Players like Pearce and Watson who have very little flair, seem to escape criticismForeverAddickted said:
Can you add Morgan to that list? - Could argue that Morgan is actually responding to Bowyer's comments and is raising his gameTodds_right_hook said:
It’s a certain type of player that bowyer can’t seem to manage and criticises, fosu, Maddison, Williams, Morgan. All players that can create and add something different in the final thirdScoham said:
Even the top managers don't get the most out of every player - is getting the best out of every player a realistic expectation? Sometimes players move on, learn from it and come back stronger.Todds_right_hook said:Bowyer has always treated certain players badly. Fosu for example, that went under the radar because we were winning!
As for players like Pearce who he has been picking out after Accrington and Peterborough you mean?
Like I just said, you can argue that Bowyer's criticism of Morgan works because he responds to it
He doesn't go away and sulk3 -
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Well thanks for the permission.Redrobo said:
I collected a lot of lol’s for suggesting they would be in the top six at the end of the season, and yes, I think their squad was stronger than ours. Maybe still is. It would be wrong IMO to assume that little old Lincoln are punching above their weight or a bit lucky with their manager.Wheresmeticket? said:
Look at Lincoln City. Do you think individually their squad is stronger? The difference is that their manager has average individuals playing together as a strong team. He has sold them on the idea and they have belief.The Red Robin said:Squad isn’t good enough. Simple as that.
Cowley Bros took over at the end of 2015/16 season.
In 2016/17 they beat Ipswich, Oldham and Brighton to go into the 5th round of the FA cup, and then beat Burnley to get into the quarter finals as a non league club! 2017/18 they won the EFL Cup at Wembley. 2018/19 promotion to League 1.
Lincoln is a well run club, and one that has been well run for several years. One based on stability, good planning, and good signings. Steadily built over several years. They have a committed squad of players because of that. They are not lucky. They have worked hard.
They are light years away from where we are. We should be learning from them, but you carry on.
You just rephrased the point I was making.
I'm not saying Lincoln got a bit lucky with their manager. I'm saying that their manager is doing what a manager should be doing. He is making the team as a whole perform better than its constituent parts.
"We should be learning from them". Exactly. But "we" aren't.0 - Sponsored links:
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I think the Bows we are now seeing is a direct result of the trauma that was last season.
I think that mother of all injury crisis and the desperation to stay up has turned out once positive and progressive manager into one that is now more worried about stopping the opposition than beating them.
The Bows I remember was the one of the first 6 or so games in the Champ last year.
Whether he can back to that is questionable but I want to give him the chance. I don’t think you can underestimate the pressure the guy has been under for the last 12 months and the toll that can take mentally.
IMO this season is done and I hope a break and refreshed Bows can come back next season like the old Bows. His performances not his loyalty in my mind have earned him that.
But please help yourself and pick a team and formation and stick with it unless there’s a bloody good reason.
I do think one failing is he gives his players too much credit. He thinks we have the 2 best RB’s in the league when we can all see they are bang average. So just pick the best team and go from there7 -
If we fail this season, 100% Bowyer won’t be here next season. I think that’s a given.3
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Did Williams go away and silk? Did he get treated fairly? Am I wrong about fosu and Maddison?ForeverAddickted said:
To say Bowyer cant manage him though is bullshitTodds_right_hook said:
Yes, he is a flair player that received criticism from bowyer. Players like Pearce and Watson who have very little flair, seem to escape criticismForeverAddickted said:
Can you add Morgan to that list? - Could argue that Morgan is actually responding to Bowyer's comments and is raising his gameTodds_right_hook said:
It’s a certain type of player that bowyer can’t seem to manage and criticises, fosu, Maddison, Williams, Morgan. All players that can create and add something different in the final thirdScoham said:
Even the top managers don't get the most out of every player - is getting the best out of every player a realistic expectation? Sometimes players move on, learn from it and come back stronger.Todds_right_hook said:Bowyer has always treated certain players badly. Fosu for example, that went under the radar because we were winning!
As for players like Pearce who he has been picking out after Accrington and Peterborough you mean?
Like I just said, you can argue that Bowyer's criticism of Morgan works because he responds to it
He doesn't go away and sulk0 -
AFKABartram said:If we fail this season, 100% Bowyer won’t be here next season. I think that’s a given.
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Define failure. I never expected anything from this season.
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Failure to make play offs imoRodneyCharltonTrotta said:AFKABartram said:If we fail this season, 100% Bowyer won’t be here next season. I think that’s a given.
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Define failure. I never expected anything from this season.10 -
We’ve already had this argument. Did he fail to get the most out of Taylor? Karlan? Aribo? Gallagher? Leko? Doughty? All those players were attacking creative threats but they also did the hard yards too.Todds_right_hook said:
It’s a certain type of player that bowyer can’t seem to manage and criticises, fosu, Maddison, Williams, Morgan. All players that can create and add something different in the final thirdScoham said:
Even the top managers don't get the most out of every player - is getting the best out of every player a realistic expectation? Sometimes players move on, learn from it and come back stronger.Todds_right_hook said:Bowyer has always treated certain players badly. Fosu for example, that went under the radar because we were winning!6 -
No Williams got on with it himself, dont recall him being called out again after Shrewsbury because he got on with the task, and like Morgan learnt from his mistakeTodds_right_hook said:
Did Williams go away and sulk? Did he get treated fairly? Am I wrong about fosu and Maddison?ForeverAddickted said:
To say Bowyer cant manage him though is bullshitTodds_right_hook said:
Yes, he is a flair player that received criticism from bowyer. Players like Pearce and Watson who have very little flair, seem to escape criticismForeverAddickted said:
Can you add Morgan to that list? - Could argue that Morgan is actually responding to Bowyer's comments and is raising his gameTodds_right_hook said:
It’s a certain type of player that bowyer can’t seem to manage and criticises, fosu, Maddison, Williams, Morgan. All players that can create and add something different in the final thirdScoham said:
Even the top managers don't get the most out of every player - is getting the best out of every player a realistic expectation? Sometimes players move on, learn from it and come back stronger.Todds_right_hook said:Bowyer has always treated certain players badly. Fosu for example, that went under the radar because we were winning!
As for players like Pearce who he has been picking out after Accrington and Peterborough you mean?
Like I just said, you can argue that Bowyer's criticism of Morgan works because he responds to it
He doesn't go away and sulk
Nor can I confirm / deny what went wrong with Fosu
Maddison on the other hand... Well I've already said I cant repeat what I've been told
But then I wasnt arguing about those three in my original reply was I... I was calling you out for including Morgan1 -
Well behind in the thread , so apologies if already mentioned but Afka is playing mind games here ffs
I’ve looked , re looked and looked again thinking it might be an ellliotttt type spelling thing with AFKABartram “LOL” ing his own post but he’s only gone and done it and it’s doing my head in , I’m calling a stewards enquiry, it just doesn’t sit right with me but it got me to stop thinking about JFC slicking back his fucking Barnet for a bit so not all bad22 -
But that’s the point.ForeverAddickted said:
No Williams got on with it himself, dont recall him being called out again after Shrewsbury because he got on with the task, and like Morgan learnt from his mistakeTodds_right_hook said:
Did Williams go away and sulk? Did he get treated fairly? Am I wrong about fosu and Maddison?ForeverAddickted said:
To say Bowyer cant manage him though is bullshitTodds_right_hook said:
Yes, he is a flair player that received criticism from bowyer. Players like Pearce and Watson who have very little flair, seem to escape criticismForeverAddickted said:
Can you add Morgan to that list? - Could argue that Morgan is actually responding to Bowyer's comments and is raising his gameTodds_right_hook said:
It’s a certain type of player that bowyer can’t seem to manage and criticises, fosu, Maddison, Williams, Morgan. All players that can create and add something different in the final thirdScoham said:
Even the top managers don't get the most out of every player - is getting the best out of every player a realistic expectation? Sometimes players move on, learn from it and come back stronger.Todds_right_hook said:Bowyer has always treated certain players badly. Fosu for example, that went under the radar because we were winning!
As for players like Pearce who he has been picking out after Accrington and Peterborough you mean?
Like I just said, you can argue that Bowyer's criticism of Morgan works because he responds to it
He doesn't go away and sulk
Nor can I confirm / deny what went wrong with Fosu
Maddison on the other hand... Well I've already said I cant repeat what I've been told
bowyer called him out and shouldn’t ldnt have. Bowyer called out Morgan and shouldn’t have. Despite fosu being one of our top players under Robinson, bowyer got rid. Look at fosu now. Despite Maddison’s impressive league 1 states, bowyer wouldn’t play him but plays pratley and Watson every week.
the common denominator here is bowyer. He has lost it, he is negative, he is stubborn, he gets rid of flair players, he drops match winners all the time
he is very lucky to still have a job.0 -
Like I say though... I called you out for saying Bowyer can't manage Morgan when he clearly can, I didnt call you out for the others as two of them Bowyer couldn't manage and one wanted to be a prick hence why he has gone from Championship Football to League Two in a matter of months!!Todds_right_hook said:
But that’s the point.ForeverAddickted said:
No Williams got on with it himself, dont recall him being called out again after Shrewsbury because he got on with the task, and like Morgan learnt from his mistakeTodds_right_hook said:
Did Williams go away and sulk? Did he get treated fairly? Am I wrong about fosu and Maddison?ForeverAddickted said:
To say Bowyer cant manage him though is bullshitTodds_right_hook said:
Yes, he is a flair player that received criticism from bowyer. Players like Pearce and Watson who have very little flair, seem to escape criticismForeverAddickted said:
Can you add Morgan to that list? - Could argue that Morgan is actually responding to Bowyer's comments and is raising his gameTodds_right_hook said:
It’s a certain type of player that bowyer can’t seem to manage and criticises, fosu, Maddison, Williams, Morgan. All players that can create and add something different in the final thirdScoham said:
Even the top managers don't get the most out of every player - is getting the best out of every player a realistic expectation? Sometimes players move on, learn from it and come back stronger.Todds_right_hook said:Bowyer has always treated certain players badly. Fosu for example, that went under the radar because we were winning!
As for players like Pearce who he has been picking out after Accrington and Peterborough you mean?
Like I just said, you can argue that Bowyer's criticism of Morgan works because he responds to it
He doesn't go away and sulk
Nor can I confirm / deny what went wrong with Fosu
Maddison on the other hand... Well I've already said I cant repeat what I've been told
bowyer called him out and shouldn’t ldnt have. Bowyer called out Morgan and shouldn’t have. Despite fosu being one of our top players under Robinson, bowyer got rid. Look at fosu now. Despite Maddison’s impressive league 1 states, bowyer wouldn’t play him but plays pratley and Watson every week.
the common denominator here is bowyer. He has lost it, he is negative, he is stubborn, he gets rid of flair players, he drops match winners all the time
he is very lucky to still have a job.
Fosu could easily have done the same but knuckled down when he went to Oxford, his performances in 18/19 where shite so let's not rewrite history5
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