Look at Lincoln City. Do you think individually their squad is stronger? The difference is that their manager has average individuals playing together as a strong team. He has sold them on the idea and they have belief.
I collected a lot of lol’s for suggesting they would be in the top six at the end of the season, and yes, I think their squad was stronger than ours. Maybe still is. It would be wrong IMO to assume that little old Lincoln are punching above their weight or a bit lucky with their manager. Cowley Bros took over at the end of 2015/16 season. In 2016/17 they beat Ipswich, Oldham and Brighton to go into the 5th round of the FA cup, and then beat Burnley to get into the quarter finals as a non league club! 2017/18 they won the EFL Cup at Wembley. 2018/19 promotion to League 1.
Lincoln is a well run club, and one that has been well run for several years. One based on stability, good planning, and good signings. Steadily built over several years. They have a committed squad of players because of that. They are not lucky. They have worked hard.
They are light years away from where we are. We should be learning from them, but you carry on.
This!
Whether we like it or not this league is not easy to get out of. Like I've said a few times on this post I don't think hiring and firing is the way forward. Everyone at the club is under performing at the moment from the management team to the players. I'm not a fan of this squad. I feel we are missing a couple of ingredients that we need to get out of this league. One being a twenty goal a season forward, two being a midfielder who is up there in the scoring charts (JFC could possibly be this man but he needs liscence to get forward more) and two strong, good in the air defenders who aren't slouches. Could this be Famewo and Innis? Not sure they played a handful of games together and got injured surprise surprise.
I feel we won't make the playoffs but I believe we can rip this squad up and with the backing of TS start again. Get Millar in on a permanent and with the new fella we have pace and skill on the wings. Get a work horse to play along side JFC or Morgan who's going to break up play in there and younger Prats. Sign Colby Bishop from Accy he has something about him
Bowyer built this squad with some significant backing from TS.
So what you’re saying is Bowyer will rip up the squad that Bowyer built and have another go at spending more of TS’ money.
How many go’s does he get?
As a league one club you will do well to attract better pedigree players than he got this time round.
Also players like Watson don't go from being captain of a big championship club @ Forest to the displays he's had this season without an influence from a manager. He's far better than what we are seeing.
If our signing plan had emulated Lincoln's, our fan base would have hit the roof. Many would have been calling TS potless. The fact they have been so successful is both lucky and clever. If the plan hadn't worked, they've not overspent, if it works they go up with no financial worries and start in championship with a bucket of cash to spend.
Lucky? Seriously?
Lucky for Lincoln that it has worked out this season again. They had an average player age of 31 last season, 22 this. I listened to an interview with their manager and he said their secret to success was to totally overhaul their squad and get all of their business done very early in the pre-season window. They scouted the young loan talent and made all of the deals happen, pretty much before the window openedn and all deals were signed up within a few days of opening. Nothing lucky about that, it is excellent scouting and planning. The luck is whether the complete squad overhaul actually works.
Our squad was described by someone on CL as "Filthy" with a supposed level of quality, that would result in us tearing this league a new one. Well the luck hasn't been with our much changed team that lost so regularly last term. Whether it's down to Bowyer or the players, something needs to change. It's far easier to change a manager than 15-20 players, but realistically, how many of our 20+ would we or Bowyer want back next season, regardless of what league we are in.
This season wasn't a free-hit, it was an opportunity to see whether the poor planning and investment of ESI, could be overcome with the scraps left over at the end of the pre-season window, that other League One managers didn't want, or thought were overpriced. It hasn't worked, so the luck and judgement was equally poor.
Powell's first half season we finished the season lower than when he started at 15th place. With 15 new players we smashed that league to pieces. We were all there so saw the good, bad and ugly wins by the odd goal. That team became a team and winning became a habit. Was it lucky?
This season it seems that our squad isn't a team, more a bunch of players that all happen to be wearing the same colour.
Has Bowyer lost it? Did he ever have it?
Yes to both. He definitely had it
The injuries last season and the off field goings on are a major cause of his downfall in my opinion.
Its a shame that he appears to be a shadow of himself, I really want him to turn it around but don't think he will and for that reason, I would make the change now to give the replacement as much time as possible to assess the squad and identify targets. If Bowyer does last until the end of the season, it will be his last unless we go on a very very good run.
As I said, Bowyer definitely had it and for that,if I ever bump into him in a pub when I'm drunk, i would try to lick his face and tell him that I love him.
Look at Lincoln City. Do you think individually their squad is stronger? The difference is that their manager has average individuals playing together as a strong team. He has sold them on the idea and they have belief.
I collected a lot of lol’s for suggesting they would be in the top six at the end of the season, and yes, I think their squad was stronger than ours. Maybe still is. It would be wrong IMO to assume that little old Lincoln are punching above their weight or a bit lucky with their manager. Cowley Bros took over at the end of 2015/16 season. In 2016/17 they beat Ipswich, Oldham and Brighton to go into the 5th round of the FA cup, and then beat Burnley to get into the quarter finals as a non league club! 2017/18 they won the EFL Cup at Wembley. 2018/19 promotion to League 1.
Lincoln is a well run club, and one that has been well run for several years. One based on stability, good planning, and good signings. Steadily built over several years. They have a committed squad of players because of that. They are not lucky. They have worked hard.
They are light years away from where we are. We should be learning from them, but you carry on.
This!
Whether we like it or not this league is not easy to get out of. Like I've said a few times on this post I don't think hiring and firing is the way forward. Everyone at the club is under performing at the moment from the management team to the players. I'm not a fan of this squad. I feel we are missing a couple of ingredients that we need to get out of this league. One being a twenty goal a season forward, two being a midfielder who is up there in the scoring charts (JFC could possibly be this man but he needs liscence to get forward more) and two strong, good in the air defenders who aren't slouches. Could this be Famewo and Innis? Not sure they played a handful of games together and got injured surprise surprise.
I feel we won't make the playoffs but I believe we can rip this squad up and with the backing of TS start again. Get Millar in on a permanent and with the new fella we have pace and skill on the wings. Get a work horse to play along side JFC or Morgan who's going to break up play in there and younger Prats. Sign Colby Bishop from Accy he has something about him
You do realise that Accrington Stanley are a lot better than us and on current form, will be as a minimum in the play offs. Us on current form will be 15th!
He’s ok until the end of the season but if we are not promoted then it would not be surprising that there will be a change.
It’s a results business and anyone else not with a Charlton connection (eg: Robinson, Parkinson) would have had people screaming for them to be sacked a few games ago.
However he does have credits in the bank from the last 3 years but he looks and is making tired decisions now and has done so for weeks.
He’s ok until the end of the season but if we are not promoted then it would not be surprising that there will be a change.
It’s a results business and anyone else not with a Charlton connection (eg: Robinson, Parkinson) would have had people screaming for them to be sacked a few games ago.
However he does have credits in the bank from the last 3 years but he looks and is making tired decisions now and has done so for weeks.
Fingers crossed that the form improves for him.
In my eyes we aren’t getting promoted and that is increasingly clear to all so are we not better off getting the new guy in now to at least give them a few games to evaluate what they have and what they need for next season?
Like Powell who had half a season before winning the title.
He’s ok until the end of the season but if we are not promoted then it would not be surprising that there will be a change.
It’s a results business and anyone else not with a Charlton connection (eg: Robinson, Parkinson) would have had people screaming for them to be sacked a few games ago.
However he does have credits in the bank from the last 3 years but he looks and is making tired decisions now and has done so for weeks.
Fingers crossed that the form improves for him.
It just seems a bit silly to me to sit back and watch that happen.
Realistically (although not mathematically) it looks like the playoffs, never mind promotion, are less than likely. Therefore, if promotion is the thing which will determine whether or not he is our manager, then let’s make the call now and bring in someone who we trust better to build us over the summer into a team that can compete for promotion next season. You never know, that person might even be able to salvage something from this season.
He’s ok until the end of the season but if we are not promoted then it would not be surprising that there will be a change.
It’s a results business and anyone else not with a Charlton connection (eg: Robinson, Parkinson) would have had people screaming for them to be sacked a few games ago.
However he does have credits in the bank from the last 3 years but he looks and is making tired decisions now and has done so for weeks.
Fingers crossed that the form improves for him.
It just seems a bit silly to me to sit back and watch that happen.
Realistically (although not mathematically) it looks like the playoffs, never mind promotion, are less than likely. Therefore, if promotion is the thing which will determine whether or not he is our manager, then let’s make the call now and bring in someone who we trust better to build us over the summer into a team that can compete for promotion next season. You never know, that person might even be able to salvage something from this season.
See, that’s the basis of my current position, but with a different stance.
I think we have a strong chance of, from now, finishing the season strongly with our current manager in charge of a squad he knows and has shaped. Like we did two years ago successfully. I think there would be no guarantee or even increased likelihood that a new manager coming in and taking over someone else’s squad would have that success or deliver improvement in the next 3 months. Look how Powell didn’t when he first took over and that run in.
That has nothing to do with loyalty to Bowyer as an individual but more my view that stability is currently more beneficial than upheaval and change.
If that fails to meet the minimum target come end of season and it looks like there’s not much trust between owner and manager, they’ll be a change. If before that we say lose the next two games badly, they’ll most probably be an escalated change. And I think the vast majority of those currently saying ‘no change’ will be perfectly happy with that.
But for now, and until I think it’s decisively proven to be otherwise, I think stability is our best stance. I understand why others have a differing view, and I too don’t think Bowyer has done a particularly good job this season, but I think this sacking campaign has been given far bigger online traction due to the Covid / lockdown situation we now find ourselves in.
I’ve set out my view a couple of times this week so I’ll step back for now as I know how boring it is reading the same people posting the same things repeatedly.
One question that may have been asked/answered but I missed it if so: there's a bit of talk about the impact of the last few seasons on Bowyer's mindset and mentality. The question therefore is, would a change do him as a person (as well as a manager) some real good?
If we do assume that having to deal with everything he's dealt with is at last partly responsible for an apparent decline in results (let's leave ability as a sidenote), if at the end of the season he is thrown back into training and recruitment etc and the pressure that comes with it, is there any reason to think his mindset will change?
Is there a possibility that a sabbatical from the job and some time to heal and catch a few fish might get the original Bowyer who DID do well back again? Or alternatively giving him someone else on the team who has the status and experience to challenge him a bit more robustly? It sounds harsh on Jackson (it probably is) but perhaps if we step aside from replacing Bowyer and instead look at rejuvenation there is an argument there. If Euell does go, perhaps Jackson can have a go at that job and someone can take his place at Bowyer's side?
He’s ok until the end of the season but if we are not promoted then it would not be surprising that there will be a change.
It’s a results business and anyone else not with a Charlton connection (eg: Robinson, Parkinson) would have had people screaming for them to be sacked a few games ago.
However he does have credits in the bank from the last 3 years but he looks and is making tired decisions now and has done so for weeks.
Fingers crossed that the form improves for him.
It just seems a bit silly to me to sit back and watch that happen.
Realistically (although not mathematically) it looks like the playoffs, never mind promotion, are less than likely. Therefore, if promotion is the thing which will determine whether or not he is our manager, then let’s make the call now and bring in someone who we trust better to build us over the summer into a team that can compete for promotion next season. You never know, that person might even be able to salvage something from this season.
See, that’s the basis of my current position, but with a different stance.
I think we have a strong chance of, from now, finishing the season strongly with our current manager in charge of a squad he knows and has shaped. Like we did two years ago successfully. I think there would be no guarantee or even increased likelihood that a new manager coming in and taking over someone else’s squad would have that success or deliver improvement in the next 3 months. Look how Powell didn’t when he first took over and that run in.
That has nothing to do with loyalty to Bowyer as an individual but more my view that stability is currently more beneficial than upheaval and change.
If that fails to meet the minimum target come end of season and it looks like there’s not much trust between owner and manager, they’ll be a change. If before that we say lose the next two games badly, they’ll most probably be an escalated change. And I think the vast majority of those currently saying ‘no change’ will be perfectly happy with that.
But for now, and until I think it’s decisively proven to be otherwise, I think stability is our best stance. I understand why others have a differing view, and I too don’t think Bowyer has done a particularly good job this season, but I think this sacking campaign has been given far bigger online traction due to the Covid / lockdown situation we now find ourselves in.
I’ve set out my view a couple of times this week so I’ll step back for now as I know how boring it is reading the same people posting the same things repeatedly.
I disagree. Change is needed now to give us at least a chance of getting promotion.
The players we have are more than capable to get promoted but in my opinion they're not playing to their potential because they don't trust the manager.
I've no doubt we will win games between now and the end of the season as natural ability will get us those results but if the players are playing within themselves then a change of direction is needed in order to rectify that. That's football.
I'm the most "don't get too high with the highs and not too low with the lows" and I honestly haven't wanted a manager to lose his job other than Pardew and Karel but the players need to feel they can play with confidence. Without that they will continue to make mistakes.
Just on the Fosu thing i'm never against a manager falling out with a player but the difference is that this season the manager has done it publicly. Everyone knows that's the quickest way to lose the dressing room. Tell them what you think privately but back your players publicly and they'll respect you more. It's been proven to work.
He’s ok until the end of the season but if we are not promoted then it would not be surprising that there will be a change.
It’s a results business and anyone else not with a Charlton connection (eg: Robinson, Parkinson) would have had people screaming for them to be sacked a few games ago.
However he does have credits in the bank from the last 3 years but he looks and is making tired decisions now and has done so for weeks.
Fingers crossed that the form improves for him.
It just seems a bit silly to me to sit back and watch that happen.
Realistically (although not mathematically) it looks like the playoffs, never mind promotion, are less than likely. Therefore, if promotion is the thing which will determine whether or not he is our manager, then let’s make the call now and bring in someone who we trust better to build us over the summer into a team that can compete for promotion next season. You never know, that person might even be able to salvage something from this season.
See, that’s the basis of my current position, but with a different stance.
I think we have a strong chance of, from now, finishing the season strongly with our current manager in charge of a squad he knows and has shaped. Like we did two years ago successfully. I think there would be no guarantee or even increased likelihood that a new manager coming in and taking over someone else’s squad would have that success or deliver improvement in the next 3 months. Look how Powell didn’t when he first took over and that run in.
That has nothing to do with loyalty to Bowyer as an individual but more my view that stability is currently more beneficial than upheaval and change.
If that fails to meet the minimum target come end of season and it looks like there’s not much trust between owner and manager, they’ll be a change. If before that we say lose the next two games badly, they’ll most probably be an escalated change. And I think the vast majority of those currently saying ‘no change’ will be perfectly happy with that.
But for now, and until I think it’s decisively proven to be otherwise, I think stability is our best stance. I understand why others have a differing view, and I too don’t think Bowyer has done a particularly good job this season, but I think this sacking campaign has been given far bigger online traction due to the Covid / lockdown situation we now find ourselves in.
I’ve set out my view a couple of times this week so I’ll step back for now as I know how boring it is reading the same people posting the same things repeatedly.
I may not necessarily agree, but I do understand this stance & you've put it across well 👍
Look at Lincoln City. Do you think individually their squad is stronger? The difference is that their manager has average individuals playing together as a strong team. He has sold them on the idea and they have belief.
I collected a lot of lol’s for suggesting they would be in the top six at the end of the season, and yes, I think their squad was stronger than ours. Maybe still is. It would be wrong IMO to assume that little old Lincoln are punching above their weight or a bit lucky with their manager. Cowley Bros took over at the end of 2015/16 season. In 2016/17 they beat Ipswich, Oldham and Brighton to go into the 5th round of the FA cup, and then beat Burnley to get into the quarter finals as a non league club! 2017/18 they won the EFL Cup at Wembley. 2018/19 promotion to League 1.
Lincoln is a well run club, and one that has been well run for several years. One based on stability, good planning, and good signings. Steadily built over several years. They have a committed squad of players because of that. They are not lucky. They have worked hard.
They are light years away from where we are. We should be learning from them, but you carry on.
This!
Whether we like it or not this league is not easy to get out of. Like I've said a few times on this post I don't think hiring and firing is the way forward. Everyone at the club is under performing at the moment from the management team to the players. I'm not a fan of this squad. I feel we are missing a couple of ingredients that we need to get out of this league. One being a twenty goal a season forward, two being a midfielder who is up there in the scoring charts (JFC could possibly be this man but he needs liscence to get forward more) and two strong, good in the air defenders who aren't slouches. Could this be Famewo and Innis? Not sure they played a handful of games together and got injured surprise surprise.
I feel we won't make the playoffs but I believe we can rip this squad up and with the backing of TS start again. Get Millar in on a permanent and with the new fella we have pace and skill on the wings. Get a work horse to play along side JFC or Morgan who's going to break up play in there and younger Prats. Sign Colby Bishop from Accy he has something about him
You do realise that Accrington Stanley are a lot better than us and on current form, will be as a minimum in the play offs. Us on current form will be 15th!
Erm... On we're currently set to achieve a mere 10th this season at the moment. I can't see us finishing much lower than that. Anything can change though.
Look at Lincoln City. Do you think individually their squad is stronger? The difference is that their manager has average individuals playing together as a strong team. He has sold them on the idea and they have belief.
I collected a lot of lol’s for suggesting they would be in the top six at the end of the season, and yes, I think their squad was stronger than ours. Maybe still is. It would be wrong IMO to assume that little old Lincoln are punching above their weight or a bit lucky with their manager. Cowley Bros took over at the end of 2015/16 season. In 2016/17 they beat Ipswich, Oldham and Brighton to go into the 5th round of the FA cup, and then beat Burnley to get into the quarter finals as a non league club! 2017/18 they won the EFL Cup at Wembley. 2018/19 promotion to League 1.
Lincoln is a well run club, and one that has been well run for several years. One based on stability, good planning, and good signings. Steadily built over several years. They have a committed squad of players because of that. They are not lucky. They have worked hard.
They are light years away from where we are. We should be learning from them, but you carry on.
This!
Whether we like it or not this league is not easy to get out of. Like I've said a few times on this post I don't think hiring and firing is the way forward. Everyone at the club is under performing at the moment from the management team to the players. I'm not a fan of this squad. I feel we are missing a couple of ingredients that we need to get out of this league. One being a twenty goal a season forward, two being a midfielder who is up there in the scoring charts (JFC could possibly be this man but he needs liscence to get forward more) and two strong, good in the air defenders who aren't slouches. Could this be Famewo and Innis? Not sure they played a handful of games together and got injured surprise surprise.
I feel we won't make the playoffs but I believe we can rip this squad up and with the backing of TS start again. Get Millar in on a permanent and with the new fella we have pace and skill on the wings. Get a work horse to play along side JFC or Morgan who's going to break up play in there and younger Prats. Sign Colby Bishop from Accy he has something about him
Bowyer built this squad with some significant backing from TS.
So what you’re saying is Bowyer will rip up the squad that Bowyer built and have another go at spending more of TS’ money.
How many go’s does he get?
As a league one club you will do well to attract better pedigree players than he got this time round.
I think significant backing is OTT plus we have recouped pretty well with the sales of Bonne, Phillips and Doughty but granted we've been backed better then previous owners.
I think LB has put together a team at short notice after the ban was lifted. We took a few punts on players Maddison, Bogle, Schwartz (jury still out), Innis, Famewo, Levitt, Maatsen, Smyth to name a few and some clearly haven't worked out. Experienced heads like Watson, Gunter, Pearce have been making mistakes and have pretty much under performed. So in my eyes we haven't spent loads of money and a squad has been put together a good few weeks after most clubs had done their business. Who's to say who we would of brought in if we weren't under the embargo.
At the end of the day you're either Bowyer in or Bowyer out. There's not many on the fence. I'm very much up for building our club around a young manager who I think is still learning and has had many ups and downs and hard circumstances to work under in 3 years of management. I'm fed up of the merry go round of managers we've had over the last 10 years and I'm a firm believer that stability will bring us success.
Look at Lincoln City. Do you think individually their squad is stronger? The difference is that their manager has average individuals playing together as a strong team. He has sold them on the idea and they have belief.
I collected a lot of lol’s for suggesting they would be in the top six at the end of the season, and yes, I think their squad was stronger than ours. Maybe still is. It would be wrong IMO to assume that little old Lincoln are punching above their weight or a bit lucky with their manager. Cowley Bros took over at the end of 2015/16 season. In 2016/17 they beat Ipswich, Oldham and Brighton to go into the 5th round of the FA cup, and then beat Burnley to get into the quarter finals as a non league club! 2017/18 they won the EFL Cup at Wembley. 2018/19 promotion to League 1.
Lincoln is a well run club, and one that has been well run for several years. One based on stability, good planning, and good signings. Steadily built over several years. They have a committed squad of players because of that. They are not lucky. They have worked hard.
They are light years away from where we are. We should be learning from them, but you carry on.
This!
Whether we like it or not this league is not easy to get out of. Like I've said a few times on this post I don't think hiring and firing is the way forward. Everyone at the club is under performing at the moment from the management team to the players. I'm not a fan of this squad. I feel we are missing a couple of ingredients that we need to get out of this league. One being a twenty goal a season forward, two being a midfielder who is up there in the scoring charts (JFC could possibly be this man but he needs liscence to get forward more) and two strong, good in the air defenders who aren't slouches. Could this be Famewo and Innis? Not sure they played a handful of games together and got injured surprise surprise.
I feel we won't make the playoffs but I believe we can rip this squad up and with the backing of TS start again. Get Millar in on a permanent and with the new fella we have pace and skill on the wings. Get a work horse to play along side JFC or Morgan who's going to break up play in there and younger Prats. Sign Colby Bishop from Accy he has something about him
You do realise that Accrington Stanley are a lot better than us and on current form, will be as a minimum in the play offs. Us on current form will be 15th!
Money talks, especially to footballers in the lower leagues and even with the wage cap we'd probably better his wages.
Look at Lincoln City. Do you think individually their squad is stronger? The difference is that their manager has average individuals playing together as a strong team. He has sold them on the idea and they have belief.
I collected a lot of lol’s for suggesting they would be in the top six at the end of the season, and yes, I think their squad was stronger than ours. Maybe still is. It would be wrong IMO to assume that little old Lincoln are punching above their weight or a bit lucky with their manager. Cowley Bros took over at the end of 2015/16 season. In 2016/17 they beat Ipswich, Oldham and Brighton to go into the 5th round of the FA cup, and then beat Burnley to get into the quarter finals as a non league club! 2017/18 they won the EFL Cup at Wembley. 2018/19 promotion to League 1.
Lincoln is a well run club, and one that has been well run for several years. One based on stability, good planning, and good signings. Steadily built over several years. They have a committed squad of players because of that. They are not lucky. They have worked hard.
They are light years away from where we are. We should be learning from them, but you carry on.
This!
Whether we like it or not this league is not easy to get out of. Like I've said a few times on this post I don't think hiring and firing is the way forward. Everyone at the club is under performing at the moment from the management team to the players. I'm not a fan of this squad. I feel we are missing a couple of ingredients that we need to get out of this league. One being a twenty goal a season forward, two being a midfielder who is up there in the scoring charts (JFC could possibly be this man but he needs liscence to get forward more) and two strong, good in the air defenders who aren't slouches. Could this be Famewo and Innis? Not sure they played a handful of games together and got injured surprise surprise.
I feel we won't make the playoffs but I believe we can rip this squad up and with the backing of TS start again. Get Millar in on a permanent and with the new fella we have pace and skill on the wings. Get a work horse to play along side JFC or Morgan who's going to break up play in there and younger Prats. Sign Colby Bishop from Accy he has something about him
Totally agree. Everything about the still short-term composition of this squad and the new additions (bar DJ) speaks to that being precisely TS (and SG's and LB's) plan and intention, though I believe that holds whether we go up or not. There's going to be some distressed sellers in the summer and it's wise to keep ourselves nimble enough to take advantage.
I'll just say this as fairly solidly in the Bowyer to go camp: IF he turns it around this season he will be a much much stronger manager for going through this phase.
I am somewhat on the fence and as someone pointed out already with everything in the world going to shit I think it is magnifying my negative reaction to performances whereby my knee jerk response is a change is needed now.
AFKA makes a very compelling counter argument and once the emotional response has passed it makes great sense to me also to give things a bit more time, especially now the window has passed and there is no guarantee someone else will do better.
One thing though that has occurred to me is the individual errors. Are they a direct result of players fearing they are going to be called out after games and 'rotated'? If so then the blame is laid squarely at Bowyer's door and unless he can restore confidence quickly then sadly the game is up for him.
Bowyer has always treated certain players badly. Fosu for example, that went under the radar because we were winning!
Even the top managers don't get the most out of every player - is getting the best out of every player a realistic expectation? Sometimes players move on, learn from it and come back stronger.
It’s a certain type of player that bowyer can’t seem to manage and criticises, fosu, Maddison, Williams, Morgan. All players that can create and add something different in the final third
I keep seeing this list come up (you missed Oztumer...), but what about the likes of Aribo, Gallagher, Leko, Taylor and Millar?
Many fans demand passion and commitment from players, but now it seems some want standards to drop for certain players. Bowyer clearly went too far with some of the criticism though in fairness he seems to have calmed down recently.
On the individual m players Fosu didn’t fit the system and has possibly learnt from his mistakes.
Morgan has upped his work rate.
Maddison is now in League 2.
I like Williams but I also want us to move away from players who struggle to regularly play 90 minutes, I can understand why we let him go.
Sorry everyone for criticising bowyer and providing examples of players he has needlessly called out. Thanks for the list of players he hasn’t called out when the reality is that he shouldn’t be calling out any players or fans for that matter. Which proves my point, he can’t handle certain players anymore.
all examples above were players managed by bowyer when we were doing well. If Taylor got sent off for kicking out at a keeper now, would bowyer keep quiet?
I’ll stop about bowyers now because he is doing a great job!
10th on ppg, negative performances, conceding freely. As I said this morning, would you all have given Robinson or slade this level of support.
we’ve been poor for over 12 calendar months now. I stand by my comments, bowyer is lucky to still have a job.
I’ve criticised Bowyer too and think TS has a big call to either back him or replace him in the near future. I’m not saying he can do no wrong and I disagreed with him calling out those players recently and said so at the time.
We had the lowest budget last season and then lost three of our four main goalscorers in Gallagher, Taylor and Leko. Aneke couldn’t stay fit, Hemed couldn’t score and Bonne for all his effort and decent goal return wasn’t really good enough. Bowyer was left without enough attacking threats yet didn’t have the players to keep it tight defensively.
Then in addition to that age had all the nonsense off the field to deal with and the pandemic situation meaning it wasn’t a normal season.
We should be doing better but we also thought that under Parkinson in 10/11 just before he was sacked. In the end we came to realise that squad wasn’t good enough.
I’m not convinced Bowyer should stay but I also don’t think our problems will be solved just by changing the manager. I think it’s becoming clearer that Bowyer and Gallen took the wrong approach with too many older players coming in. They’ve tried to add youth and pace to our squad with three talented young midfielders coming in, and improved our options up front by swapping Bogle and Smyth for Schwartz and Stockley.
Bowyer has been calmer post match recently and had stuck with 4-4-2 until last night. He was left with one winger (we tried to sign a third on deadline day from the sounds of it) so was stuck between potentially overplaying Millar, playing CMs on the wing or changing to a diamond. With DJ now available hopefully he now sticks with a simple 4-4-2 or occasionally 4-5-1 if it suits the game better.
I’d at least give him a few more games now the window has closed and see where we are. Until yesterday there were signs of improvements. It’s worth seeing what he can do over the next few games. I don’t want us being one of those clubs who expect perfection and sack a manager every time the team are struggling.
Excellent post. The only place I differ is that I am convinced he should stay (if he want too - he may have had enough, you never know). For me, it comes down to the fact that I don’t see anyone else getting more out of the squad. They can be improved, and there have been some questionable moments this season re: his man management and team selections. However, I think it’s a mixture of limited playing ability in the team, the volatility at which the squad was put together in the summer and the salary cap.
The business, in and out in Jan, was starting again imo. Of course, you can argue we shouldn’t be starting again, but I think the general feel at the end of the summer window was that we had a decent squad. I was happy with Maddison, Bogle and Gilbey. It turns out all 3 had and have so far contributed very little for whatever reason. I think Stockley & Millar have been good additions, and DJ will be. The defence is an issue however.
I still think he should get the whole of next summer to have a full go of it, under relative stability. As for this season, it’s going to be more of the same until the final game I think. 1 win in every 3 I think
He’s ok until the end of the season but if we are not promoted then it would not be surprising that there will be a change.
It’s a results business and anyone else not with a Charlton connection (eg: Robinson, Parkinson) would have had people screaming for them to be sacked a few games ago.
However he does have credits in the bank from the last 3 years but he looks and is making tired decisions now and has done so for weeks.
Fingers crossed that the form improves for him.
It just seems a bit silly to me to sit back and watch that happen.
Realistically (although not mathematically) it looks like the playoffs, never mind promotion, are less than likely. Therefore, if promotion is the thing which will determine whether or not he is our manager, then let’s make the call now and bring in someone who we trust better to build us over the summer into a team that can compete for promotion next season. You never know, that person might even be able to salvage something from this season.
See, that’s the basis of my current position, but with a different stance.
I think we have a strong chance of, from now, finishing the season strongly with our current manager in charge of a squad he knows and has shaped. Like we did two years ago successfully. I think there would be no guarantee or even increased likelihood that a new manager coming in and taking over someone else’s squad would have that success or deliver improvement in the next 3 months. Look how Powell didn’t when he first took over and that run in.
That has nothing to do with loyalty to Bowyer as an individual but more my view that stability is currently more beneficial than upheaval and change.
If that fails to meet the minimum target come end of season and it looks like there’s not much trust between owner and manager, they’ll be a change. If before that we say lose the next two games badly, they’ll most probably be an escalated change. And I think the vast majority of those currently saying ‘no change’ will be perfectly happy with that.
But for now, and until I think it’s decisively proven to be otherwise, I think stability is our best stance. I understand why others have a differing view, and I too don’t think Bowyer has done a particularly good job this season, but I think this sacking campaign has been given far bigger online traction due to the Covid / lockdown situation we now find ourselves in.
I’ve set out my view a couple of times this week so I’ll step back for now as I know how boring it is reading the same people posting the same things repeatedly.
I think this is pretty much my view, despite perhaps appearing more negative on match threads etc (heat of the moment and all that).
Bowyer was given the task of promotion this season and, while it looks unlikely, top 6 is still very much mathematically possible. I'd agree with giving him until the end of the season, or until it's absolutely certain we can't make the play-offs, whichever comes first.
What I don't agree with is fans saying that de deserves a go into next season as well, based purely on the fact it's Bowyer. If we lose in the play-offs then I'd consider keeping him on, depending on performances, but if we fail to get top 6 with this squad then we should definitely be looking at who else is available.
If we fail this season, 100% Bowyer won’t be here next season. I think that’s a given.
I think that’s probably correct but even without the playoffs if the general form and results significantly improve and we finish looking like a football team then I think the question still remains. My feeling is that Bowyer will be given a run at next season but should we not be flying then he’ll be gone before Christmas.
I would retain Bowyer and see how the rest of the season plays out. However and this might be a bit controversial, I actually think that the year we got promoted from League 1, given the players at his disposal , the team underperformed and however glorious Wembley was, it was still balanced on a knife edge. I think pretty much any manager would have been promoted with a midfield of Cullen, Beilik , Aribo, Fosu, Lapslie ,Morgan and Pratley, two top strikers in Lyle and Grant ( at least until Xmas), three excellent centre halves in JP, Bauer and Nabby, 2 good full backs, Djksteel and Solly and an excellent keeper in Phillips. Not being promoted with that team at his disposal would have been a total failure.
Look at Lincoln City. Do you think individually their squad is stronger? The difference is that their manager has average individuals playing together as a strong team. He has sold them on the idea and they have belief.
I collected a lot of lol’s for suggesting they would be in the top six at the end of the season, and yes, I think their squad was stronger than ours. Maybe still is. It would be wrong IMO to assume that little old Lincoln are punching above their weight or a bit lucky with their manager. Cowley Bros took over at the end of 2015/16 season. In 2016/17 they beat Ipswich, Oldham and Brighton to go into the 5th round of the FA cup, and then beat Burnley to get into the quarter finals as a non league club! 2017/18 they won the EFL Cup at Wembley. 2018/19 promotion to League 1.
Lincoln is a well run club, and one that has been well run for several years. One based on stability, good planning, and good signings. Steadily built over several years. They have a committed squad of players because of that. They are not lucky. They have worked hard.
They are light years away from where we are. We should be learning from them, but you carry on.
This!
Whether we like it or not this league is not easy to get out of. Like I've said a few times on this post I don't think hiring and firing is the way forward. Everyone at the club is under performing at the moment from the management team to the players. I'm not a fan of this squad. I feel we are missing a couple of ingredients that we need to get out of this league. One being a twenty goal a season forward, two being a midfielder who is up there in the scoring charts (JFC could possibly be this man but he needs liscence to get forward more) and two strong, good in the air defenders who aren't slouches. Could this be Famewo and Innis? Not sure they played a handful of games together and got injured surprise surprise.
I feel we won't make the playoffs but I believe we can rip this squad up and with the backing of TS start again. Get Millar in on a permanent and with the new fella we have pace and skill on the wings. Get a work horse to play along side JFC or Morgan who's going to break up play in there and younger Prats. Sign Colby Bishop from Accy he has something about him
You do realise that Accrington Stanley are a lot better than us and on current form, will be as a minimum in the play offs. Us on current form will be 15th!
Erm... On we're currently set to achieve a mere 10th this season at the moment. I can't see us finishing much lower than that. Anything can change though.
10th includes a run of 6 wins in a row. We will not do that in the second half of the season which will result in a lower league position than we currently are in.
Look at Lincoln City. Do you think individually their squad is stronger? The difference is that their manager has average individuals playing together as a strong team. He has sold them on the idea and they have belief.
I collected a lot of lol’s for suggesting they would be in the top six at the end of the season, and yes, I think their squad was stronger than ours. Maybe still is. It would be wrong IMO to assume that little old Lincoln are punching above their weight or a bit lucky with their manager. Cowley Bros took over at the end of 2015/16 season. In 2016/17 they beat Ipswich, Oldham and Brighton to go into the 5th round of the FA cup, and then beat Burnley to get into the quarter finals as a non league club! 2017/18 they won the EFL Cup at Wembley. 2018/19 promotion to League 1.
Lincoln is a well run club, and one that has been well run for several years. One based on stability, good planning, and good signings. Steadily built over several years. They have a committed squad of players because of that. They are not lucky. They have worked hard.
They are light years away from where we are. We should be learning from them, but you carry on.
This!
Whether we like it or not this league is not easy to get out of. Like I've said a few times on this post I don't think hiring and firing is the way forward. Everyone at the club is under performing at the moment from the management team to the players. I'm not a fan of this squad. I feel we are missing a couple of ingredients that we need to get out of this league. One being a twenty goal a season forward, two being a midfielder who is up there in the scoring charts (JFC could possibly be this man but he needs liscence to get forward more) and two strong, good in the air defenders who aren't slouches. Could this be Famewo and Innis? Not sure they played a handful of games together and got injured surprise surprise.
I feel we won't make the playoffs but I believe we can rip this squad up and with the backing of TS start again. Get Millar in on a permanent and with the new fella we have pace and skill on the wings. Get a work horse to play along side JFC or Morgan who's going to break up play in there and younger Prats. Sign Colby Bishop from Accy he has something about him
You do realise that Accrington Stanley are a lot better than us and on current form, will be as a minimum in the play offs. Us on current form will be 15th!
Money talks, especially to footballers in the lower leagues and even with the wage cap we'd probably better his wages.
If Accrington get promoted, they wont be under a wage cap. Would he drop from the championship to league 1.
If the cap gets abolished and we can blow their wages out of the water, then maybe. I agree that he is a good player and we should look at him, I just cant see it happening
I'm going to get slaughtered for this but look at Liverpool this season. Two centres backs are out. Injuries all over the place. Players playing out of position etc We are obviously in no way comparable to Liverpool nor is LB comparable to Klopp BUT it just goes to show how a few things can effect a great team let alone a outfit like us. They're half the team they were last season and some of their players just aren't hitting form TAA and Robertson for example. Sometimes it just isn't your year. Sometimes it is hard to keep up with expectations and perform week in week out.
I'm going to get slaughtered for this but look at Liverpool this season. Two centres backs are out. Injuries all over the place. Players playing out of position etc We are obviously in no way comparable to Liverpool nor is LB comparable to Klopp BUT it just goes to show how a few things can effect a great team let alone a outfit like us. They're half the team they were last season and some of their players just aren't hitting form TAA and Robertson for example. Sometimes it just isn't your year. Sometimes it is hard to keep up with expectations and perform week in week out.
Liverpool are still 4th, whilst playing the same amount of games as teams around them, and are still in the champions league.
They are definitely struggling to reach the heights of last seasons - and that's no shock with a team built on the back of and now missing VVD.
Yet they are still competing, and apart from that Villa game have not been embarrassed. Indeed they had just beaten Spurs and West Ham teams up and around them 3 - 1.
We look shit when we win, and even worse when we lose and are shipping goals for fun. And many teams have 3-4 games on us so our position is currently slightly inflated.
I'm going to get slaughtered for this but look at Liverpool this season. Two centres backs are out. Injuries all over the place. Players playing out of position etc We are obviously in no way comparable to Liverpool nor is LB comparable to Klopp BUT it just goes to show how a few things can effect a great team let alone a outfit like us. They're half the team they were last season and some of their players just aren't hitting form TAA and Robertson for example. Sometimes it just isn't your year. Sometimes it is hard to keep up with expectations and perform week in week out.
Liverpool are still 4th, whilst playing the same amount of games as teams around them, and are still in the champions league.
They are definitely struggling to reach the heights of last seasons - and that's no shock with a team built on the back of and now missing VVD.
Yet they are still competing, and apart from that Villa game have not been embarrassed. Indeed they had just beaten Spurs and West Ham teams up and around them 3 - 1.
We look shit when we win, and even worse when we lose and are shipping goals for fun.
I'm just using them as a example of it only takes a few things to go wrong to derail a season. Nobody at that club will be happy with 4th. Nobody at our club is happy with 8th. I feel like LB although has made some questionable decisions has had some bad luck this year.
Both 1st choice CBs missing for half a season
Gilbey not turning up and leaving it down to JFC (12 games in 2 years) Morgan (still learning)
Comments
So what you’re saying is Bowyer will rip up the squad that Bowyer built and have another go at spending more of TS’ money.
How many go’s does he get?
The injuries last season and the off field goings on are a major cause of his downfall in my opinion.
Its a shame that he appears to be a shadow of himself, I really want him to turn it around but don't think he will and for that reason, I would make the change now to give the replacement as much time as possible to assess the squad and identify targets. If Bowyer does last until the end of the season, it will be his last unless we go on a very very good run.
As I said, Bowyer definitely had it and for that,if I ever bump into him in a pub when I'm drunk, i would try to lick his face and tell him that I love him.
It’s a results business and anyone else not with a Charlton connection (eg: Robinson, Parkinson) would have had people screaming for them to be sacked a few games ago.
However he does have credits in the bank from the last 3 years but he looks and is making tired decisions now and has done so for weeks.
Fingers crossed that the form improves for him.
Like Powell who had half a season before winning the title.
If we do assume that having to deal with everything he's dealt with is at last partly responsible for an apparent decline in results (let's leave ability as a sidenote), if at the end of the season he is thrown back into training and recruitment etc and the pressure that comes with it, is there any reason to think his mindset will change?
Is there a possibility that a sabbatical from the job and some time to heal and catch a few fish might get the original Bowyer who DID do well back again? Or alternatively giving him someone else on the team who has the status and experience to challenge him a bit more robustly? It sounds harsh on Jackson (it probably is) but perhaps if we step aside from replacing Bowyer and instead look at rejuvenation there is an argument there. If Euell does go, perhaps Jackson can have a go at that job and someone can take his place at Bowyer's side?
The players we have are more than capable to get promoted but in my opinion they're not playing to their potential because they don't trust the manager.
I've no doubt we will win games between now and the end of the season as natural ability will get us those results but if the players are playing within themselves then a change of direction is needed in order to rectify that. That's football.
I'm the most "don't get too high with the highs and not too low with the lows" and I honestly haven't wanted a manager to lose his job other than Pardew and Karel but the players need to feel they can play with confidence. Without that they will continue to make mistakes.
Just on the Fosu thing i'm never against a manager falling out with a player but the difference is that this season the manager has done it publicly. Everyone knows that's the quickest way to lose the dressing room. Tell them what you think privately but back your players publicly and they'll respect you more. It's been proven to work.
I think LB has put together a team at short notice after the ban was lifted. We took a few punts on players Maddison, Bogle, Schwartz (jury still out), Innis, Famewo, Levitt, Maatsen, Smyth to name a few and some clearly haven't worked out. Experienced heads like Watson, Gunter, Pearce have been making mistakes and have pretty much under performed. So in my eyes we haven't spent loads of money and a squad has been put together a good few weeks after most clubs had done their business. Who's to say who we would of brought in if we weren't under the embargo.
At the end of the day you're either Bowyer in or Bowyer out. There's not many on the fence. I'm very much up for building our club around a young manager who I think is still learning and has had many ups and downs and hard circumstances to work under in 3 years of management. I'm fed up of the merry go round of managers we've had over the last 10 years and I'm a firm believer that stability will bring us success.
Everything about the still short-term composition of this squad and the new additions (bar DJ) speaks to that being precisely TS (and SG's and LB's) plan and intention, though I believe that holds whether we go up or not.
There's going to be some distressed sellers in the summer and it's wise to keep ourselves nimble enough to take advantage.
AFKA makes a very compelling counter argument and once the emotional response has passed it makes great sense to me also to give things a bit more time, especially now the window has passed and there is no guarantee someone else will do better.
One thing though that has occurred to me is the individual errors. Are they a direct result of players fearing they are going to be called out after games and 'rotated'? If so then the blame is laid squarely at Bowyer's door and unless he can restore confidence quickly then sadly the game is up for him.
I still think he should get the whole of next summer to have a full go of it, under relative stability. As for this season, it’s going to be more of the same until the final game I think. 1 win in every 3 I think
Bowyer was given the task of promotion this season and, while it looks unlikely, top 6 is still very much mathematically possible. I'd agree with giving him until the end of the season, or until it's absolutely certain we can't make the play-offs, whichever comes first.
What I don't agree with is fans saying that de deserves a go into next season as well, based purely on the fact it's Bowyer. If we lose in the play-offs then I'd consider keeping him on, depending on performances, but if we fail to get top 6 with this squad then we should definitely be looking at who else is available.
He’s been dealing with the stress of last season, the ownership hassle, being under an embargo and not being able to tell the fans.
If the cap gets abolished and we can blow their wages out of the water, then maybe. I agree that he is a good player and we should look at him, I just cant see it happening
We are obviously in no way comparable to Liverpool nor is LB comparable to Klopp BUT it just goes to show how a few things can effect a great team let alone a outfit like us. They're half the team they were last season and some of their players just aren't hitting form TAA and Robertson for example.
Sometimes it just isn't your year. Sometimes it is hard to keep up with expectations and perform week in week out.
They are definitely struggling to reach the heights of last seasons - and that's no shock with a team built on the back of and now missing VVD.
Yet they are still competing, and apart from that Villa game have not been embarrassed. Indeed they had just beaten Spurs and West Ham teams up and around them 3 - 1.
We look shit when we win, and even worse when we lose and are shipping goals for fun. And many teams have 3-4 games on us so our position is currently slightly inflated.
Both 1st choice CBs missing for half a season
Gilbey not turning up and leaving it down to JFC (12 games in 2 years) Morgan (still learning)
Maddison and Williams not turning up
Watson, Pearce, Gunter having some stinkers
Ronnie not giving us that lift we need.