Anyone who thinks Bows can get us into the play-offs this season needs their head knocking. 2 years ago we had a much stronger squad and we only just about limped over the finish line that time. I've never got the whole LB loyalty thing. Yes, he started his playing career here, but that shouldn't influence our judgements on him as a manager. His tactical decisions are poor, as is his man management and his team selection is baffling. Whenever we lose, we look like we're going to lose, yet when we win it's rarely a comfortable or convincing. Time to move on.....................
How did we just limp over the line? We finished 16 points clear of 7th. That’s 5 wins and a drawer.
we were one win away from Barnsley and two wins from Luton. When considering we couldn’t field a full subs bench during the early stages of the season, that was some achievement
I get the anti Bowyer vibe that we now have, but it really does get bad when some are 're-writing what he has achieved in the past.
So we can now add limping over the line in 18/19, along with others that have been stated by some such as we had the strongest squad that season and anything other than promotion would have been a failure.
Not as good as the claim I saw on Twitter recently that when he got us in the play offs the season before, that would have happened had Robinson stayed with us!
Anyone who thinks Bows can get us into the play-offs this season needs their head knocking. 2 years ago we had a much stronger squad and we only just about limped over the finish line that time. I've never got the whole LB loyalty thing. Yes, he started his playing career here, but that shouldn't influence our judgements on him as a manager. His tactical decisions are poor, as is his man management and his team selection is baffling. Whenever we lose, we look like we're going to lose, yet when we win it's rarely a comfortable or convincing. Time to move on.....................
How did we just limp over the line? We finished 16 points clear of 7th. That’s 5 wins and a drawer.
we were one win away from Barnsley and two wins from Luton. When considering we couldn’t field a full subs bench during the early stages of the season, that was some achievement
Thanks for saying this. A well put - with facts - reply.
I understand people are frustrated with Bowyer at the moment, but trying to rewrite history from 2 years ago to prove a point he’s not good enough manager is ridiculous.
I think Bowyer's achievements are excellent and I was saying so at the time so it would be hypocritical to decide they weren't. I just think he has changed which is probably down to a lot of reasons, including not having the faith in his team or players that he used to. To be fair, our away form is acceptable, it is our home form that is killing us.
This is IMO because there is an onus for us to be more positive at home and Bowyer hasn't worked out a way to counter teams sitting back and breaking quickly. When our opponents have more ambition we can get through them but when they deprive us of space in the key areas we don't have answers. To effectively play the way we play, we have to move the ball quicker with more accuracy. For whatever reason (confidence or ability) we can't do it. We need to go ahead but rarely do that.
The problem with Bowyer is that he keeps flogging a dead horse in the hope that it will come back to life. If overall, the players aren't quite technically good enough to play the way you had hoped, identify how you can play differently with them. One of a few things that has made me question his judgement is when he has said he is happy with the number of chances we created and I think 'really?'.
My belief is our team know that we struggle to create chances which puts pressure on them defensively. There is the quality there and it is a jigsaw puzzle that Bowyer has to solve but he keeps trying to jam the wrong piece into the wrong space.
We were comfortably in the play offs and even decided to score all the goals in the final to make it entertaining for the neutrals. We had only one out and out striker for half the season too!
There was an element of that, but we did get over that line whereas Doncaster and Sunderland didn't. And we started life in the Championship well before the injuries which were incredibly unfortunate. We had only one striker as you say, which showed the vulnerability of the squad that we got away with. Bowyer didn't want to sell Grant and get Parker as a replacement.
One area which has seen a decline is Bowyer oft mentioned claim that he improves players, something which has helped us get good young loan players. Going back a year or two you can reel off an impressive list of players who've improved under his guidance, Aribo, Grant, Taylor, Cullen, Bielik, Gallagher etc
This season the scorecard is far worse.
Maatsen - no better than when he joined us, and arguably worse Smyth - no improvement Levitt - probably went backwards with us
And amongst the experienced players, the likes of Gilbey, Matthews, Williams, Watson, Maddison have all disappointed really
Matthews is probably the worst there, he was very good last season... Or did he flatter to deceive? Maddison we all knew was a gamble and despite my feelings about his skill it appears his class was non existent. Williams was Williams, worked hard and won free kicks... Did also score two so there's that. Watson - None of us were as excited as Cawley about Watson despite his pedigree Gilbey just hasn't come back from injury the same player. I think we have seen what he can do for maybe one full game?
I'm going to get slaughtered for this but look at Liverpool this season. Two centres backs are out. Injuries all over the place. Players playing out of position etc We are obviously in no way comparable to Liverpool nor is LB comparable to Klopp BUT it just goes to show how a few things can effect a great team let alone a outfit like us. They're half the team they were last season and some of their players just aren't hitting form TAA and Robertson for example. Sometimes it just isn't your year. Sometimes it is hard to keep up with expectations and perform week in week out.
Yes but although Liverpool are not as good this year, they are still 4th. Their manager (as far as I’m aware) isn’t throwing players under the bus or tinkering unless enforced.
And like I said it's relative. 4th 10 points behind the leaders (if they win their game in hand) is a massive drop off from last season. Us 8th 8 points off of autos with more games played it less then what we all expected but my points is some seasons it just doesn't click and its not all the managers fault. LB has been poor with his critism I've always said that needs to be kept in house and on reflection and probably after a nudge from someone he is doing that. The tinkering if I'm honest at times I think he makes rash moves. To me this is because we have so many players not hitting the expected levels and also sometimes he's game plans just don't work. It happens. After the performance on Tuesday we expect changes right? Will that be classed as tinkering or will that be classed as we played poorly changes need to be made?
I would expect Millar to come in, he should have started on Tuesday. Aneke may start, again, as our top scorer, he should have played on Tuesday.
the issue with why players like Matthews aren’t as good or consistent as last year is because they are in and out of the team, played out of position etc.
when we played Accrington, sky showed the stat on the number of changes. At that point, we were 10 higher than second.
a settled team and formation is what we need.
Yes I agree but it's also difficult when you aren't winning. That's why this is such a crucial month as they're all winnable games. I'd like to see a win Saturday and then build it from there
I'd like to see the following team but doubt we will. Amos Gunter Famewo Deji Purrington Smith Shinnie JFC Millar (free role) Stockley Aneke The midfield need to win their battles and get the ball to the front players as quickly as possible. I think with the front palyers above you need less passing accuracy which should help this. I would say get the ball in the final third (from midfield or defence) as soon as possible and see what happens from there.
I'd like to see the following team but doubt we will. Amos Gunter Famewo Deji Purrington Smith Shinnie JFC Millar (free role) Stockley Aneke The midfield need to win their battles and get the ball to the front players as quickly as possible. I think with the front palyers above you need less passing accuracy which should help this.
I'd like to see the following team but doubt we will. Amos Gunter Famewo Deji Purrington Smith Shinnie JFC Millar (free role) Stockley Aneke The midfield need to win their battles and get the ball to the front players as quickly as possible. I think with the front palyers above you need less passing accuracy which should help this.
The only problem with those two up front is they're better in the air then on the deck. I can't see us supplying them with enough crosses to be overly effective
I am thinking put it in their general area where they can both win 40:60s. Including a good percentage of aerial balls. When they win the ball your midfielders or full backs (when there is time) push up and can give width or they may be able to force their way through with their different qualities (Millar running past players, Aneke using his touch and strength). Stockley impressed me with the accuracy of his lay offs.
I'm going to get slaughtered for this but look at Liverpool this season. Two centres backs are out. Injuries all over the place. Players playing out of position etc We are obviously in no way comparable to Liverpool nor is LB comparable to Klopp BUT it just goes to show how a few things can effect a great team let alone a outfit like us. They're half the team they were last season and some of their players just aren't hitting form TAA and Robertson for example. Sometimes it just isn't your year. Sometimes it is hard to keep up with expectations and perform week in week out.
Yes but although Liverpool are not as good this year, they are still 4th. Their manager (as far as I’m aware) isn’t throwing players under the bus or tinkering unless enforced.
And like I said it's relative. 4th 10 points behind the leaders (if they win their game in hand) is a massive drop off from last season. Us 8th 8 points off of autos with more games played it less then what we all expected but my points is some seasons it just doesn't click and its not all the managers fault. LB has been poor with his critism I've always said that needs to be kept in house and on reflection and probably after a nudge from someone he is doing that. The tinkering if I'm honest at times I think he makes rash moves. To me this is because we have so many players not hitting the expected levels and also sometimes he's game plans just don't work. It happens. After the performance on Tuesday we expect changes right? Will that be classed as tinkering or will that be classed as we played poorly changes need to be made?
I would expect Millar to come in, he should have started on Tuesday. Aneke may start, again, as our top scorer, he should have played on Tuesday.
the issue with why players like Matthews aren’t as good or consistent as last year is because they are in and out of the team, played out of position etc.
when we played Accrington, sky showed the stat on the number of changes. At that point, we were 10 higher than second.
a settled team and formation is what we need.
You do like to put your opinion out as facts don’t you. Millar limped off against MK and we all know that Chucks plays when the medical say he can.
What were the medical team saying to him before the match Tuesday? If you don’t know your statement is invalid.
How would you react if one or both got injured and and you subsequently found out he played them against the advice of the medical team?
I'd like to see the following team but doubt we will. Amos Gunter Famewo Deji Purrington Smith Shinnie JFC Millar (free role) Stockley Aneke The midfield need to win their battles and get the ball to the front players as quickly as possible. I think with the front palyers above you need less passing accuracy which should help this.
I like that team but I would swap JFC for Maatsen
I have to strongly disagree with both the diamond and Maatsen at LCM.
I'd like to see the following team but doubt we will. Amos Gunter Famewo Deji Purrington Smith Shinnie JFC Millar (free role) Stockley Aneke The midfield need to win their battles and get the ball to the front players as quickly as possible. I think with the front palyers above you need less passing accuracy which should help this.
I like that team but I would swap JFC for Maatsen
I have to strongly disagree with both the diamond and Maatsen at LCM.
Hold on just noticed we havent got DJ in there !!!! good job I'm not the manager lol
The thing about my diamond is that it isn't a passing diamond, but more a longer ball diamond with players covering the midfield areas. I am advocating a long ball game at least until we get some confidence back. I think we have the front players to be able to do this.
I think Bowyer's achievements are excellent and I was saying so at the time so it would be hypocritical to decide they weren't. I just think he has changed which is probably down to a lot of reasons, including not having the faith in his team or players that he used to. To be fair, our away form is acceptable, it is our home form that is killing us.
This is IMO because there is an onus for us to be more positive at home and Bowyer hasn't worked out a way to counter teams sitting back and breaking quickly. When our opponents have more ambition we can get through them but when they deprive us of space in the key areas we don't have answers. To effectively play the way we play, we have to move the ball quicker with more accuracy. For whatever reason (confidence or ability) we can't do it. We need to go ahead but rarely do that.
The problem with Bowyer is that he keeps flogging a dead horse in the hope that it will come back to life. If overall, the players aren't quite technically good enough to play the way you had hoped, identify how you can play differently with them. One of a few things that has made me question his judgement is when he has said he is happy with the number of chances we created and I think 'really?'.
My belief is our team know that we struggle to create chances which puts pressure on them defensively. There is the quality there and it is a jigsaw puzzle that Bowyer has to solve but he keeps trying to jam the wrong piece into the wrong space.
Totally agree with this. Our passing hasn’t been incisive enough to break teams down with short passing.
When we had our best spell of the season we were reliant on pace to create openings and a stable back line to stop us having to score loads.
We lost the pace and the back line and those we thought should create didn’t work out.
now we’ve got some pace back, hopefully better strike options (jury still out on Schwartz) hopefully we can back a plan A that involves getting the ball forwards quickly, running at pace and getting the ball into the box which we try and overload. Shinnie and JFC or Shinnie and Pratley in a 442, maybe a 352 may work with Gunter at the back and with JFC and Pratley with Shinnie in the middle.
I'd like to see the following team but doubt we will. Amos Gunter Famewo Deji Purrington Smith Shinnie JFC Millar (free role) Stockley Aneke The midfield need to win their battles and get the ball to the front players as quickly as possible. I think with the front palyers above you need less passing accuracy which should help this. I would say get the ball in the final third (from midfield or defence) as soon as possible and see what happens from there.
There's no way we'll be seeing Famewo on Saturday imo
I'd be surprised if he was even in the first 11 against Gillingham on the 13th
I'm going to get slaughtered for this but look at Liverpool this season. Two centres backs are out. Injuries all over the place. Players playing out of position etc We are obviously in no way comparable to Liverpool nor is LB comparable to Klopp BUT it just goes to show how a few things can effect a great team let alone a outfit like us. They're half the team they were last season and some of their players just aren't hitting form TAA and Robertson for example. Sometimes it just isn't your year. Sometimes it is hard to keep up with expectations and perform week in week out.
Yes but although Liverpool are not as good this year, they are still 4th. Their manager (as far as I’m aware) isn’t throwing players under the bus or tinkering unless enforced.
And like I said it's relative. 4th 10 points behind the leaders (if they win their game in hand) is a massive drop off from last season. Us 8th 8 points off of autos with more games played it less then what we all expected but my points is some seasons it just doesn't click and its not all the managers fault. LB has been poor with his critism I've always said that needs to be kept in house and on reflection and probably after a nudge from someone he is doing that. The tinkering if I'm honest at times I think he makes rash moves. To me this is because we have so many players not hitting the expected levels and also sometimes he's game plans just don't work. It happens. After the performance on Tuesday we expect changes right? Will that be classed as tinkering or will that be classed as we played poorly changes need to be made?
I would expect Millar to come in, he should have started on Tuesday. Aneke may start, again, as our top scorer, he should have played on Tuesday.
the issue with why players like Matthews aren’t as good or consistent as last year is because they are in and out of the team, played out of position etc.
when we played Accrington, sky showed the stat on the number of changes. At that point, we were 10 higher than second.
a settled team and formation is what we need.
You do like to put your opinion out as facts don’t you. Millar limped off against MK and we all know that Chucks plays when the medical say he can.
What were the medical team saying to him before the match Tuesday? If you don’t know your statement is invalid.
How would you react if one or both got injured and and you subsequently found out he played them against the advice of the medical team?
We got beaten at home, another pathetic and limp performance with two of our best players on the bench. That keeps happening, it isn’t a one off. Millar had a week to recover and was fit enough to be on the bench. What’s wrong with starting him and taking him off after an hour? Why does bowyer keep sending out weak teams?
What’s wrong with expecting a proactive team selection, strike first, strike hard! Start with the best 11 and take off players after an hour. Or are you happy giving teams 2 goal head starts every home game and then Reacting?
if Millar was fit enough for 45 mins, start him and protect him when we are winning, instead of this constant sending on players when we are losing
And do you know that bowyer was advised not to start them?
im quoting what sky said, that wasn’t my opinion! I clearly stated sky as a source.
Wow . No wonder you all argue on here about every little thing. Bowyer hits a bad patch and makes some bad decisions and he has to go.
I’m supporting the boss and am firmly in Bowyers camp. What this man has had to put up with over the past couple of years is beyond ridiculous. I don’t always agree with his selection, but I also didn’t always agree with Curbishley. I certainly didn’t agree with the SCP selections most of the time.
Lee deserves the support and backing of the fans at least to see this season out. I also expect Klopp to keep his job at Liverpool even though a few key injuries have ruined their season.
If we have Schwartz and Washington up front it would be a waste of time playing quick more speculative balls generally to where they are, but it is a different kettle of fish with Stockley and Aneke. And if the ball falls to Millar he doesn't muck about.
I'd like to see the following team but doubt we will. Amos Gunter Famewo Deji Purrington Smith Shinnie JFC Millar (free role) Stockley Aneke The midfield need to win their battles and get the ball to the front players as quickly as possible. I think with the front palyers above you need less passing accuracy which should help this. I would say get the ball in the final third (from midfield or defence) as soon as possible and see what happens from there.
Did you notwatch the game on Tuesday get rid of the bloody diamond it doesn't work go back to basic 4-4-2 JD has to start so does Miller and go at them I would rather lose attacking then lose like we have for the last 4 months
If you read what I was saying you would see that whilst it is a diamond on paper, it would be a completely different system to what we have been playing. I think we need three in midfield to win the battles and Millar is there to pick up offensive pieces so more of a forward than a midfielder.
More than the shape it is not about passing, passing, passing until we F it up. Which is our current way of playing. If we play a 4-4-2 with a pass, pass, pass mentality it won't improve things at all IMO.
October 27 2018. Charlton have just lost 1-0 away at Rochdale. It’s the Addicks third defeat in six games, winning only once in that time span.
Charlton have fallen to 13th in the table after sitting in 6th a month earlier. Lee Bowyer tells the press he has questioned the attitude of the players in the dressing room, reserving special criticism for Krystian Bielik. Everything looks like it’s gone pear shaped.
Surely the only way we ended up getting promoted at the end of the season was by sacking Bowyer and getting someone in who knew what they were doing?
Post match comments:
— “ Massive reality check for those who think we are going up. On paper we should finish top six.
But I've said it before this lot are mentally weak and we are where we are. Fuck knows what happens next next” — “ We’re underachieving. The squad isn’t brilliant but it’s better than 13th in league 1” —“ A system that has been figured out with a manager seeminlgly hopeful a change of personnel will do the trick, not helped by paid footballers being unable to pass or control a football.
It’s not just a bad day at the office, we just don’t have a winning mentality.” —“ That was just not good. I must admit. Starting to lose confidence in Bowyer. What a difference between Barnsley and this week. Why couldn't we just have built on that! Instead we've regressed. I believe we have the players but I don't think they're being managed well. That's my thoughts.” —“ Regardless of the owner LB and the boys are doing a pretty s*** job. Enbarrassing but sadly not a surprise. Nothing will change until we get a new owner or get lucky with a manager.” —“ Promotion via the play-offs is a pipe dream. Too many teams in this league know how to score goals & win games. Its not all about pretty football, its about getting the ball in the back of the net. End of.” —“ I really hope I am wrong but can’t help thinking Bowyer will go into full Paulo Di Canio / Roy Keane mode as a manager and turn half the team against him with ill considered bursts of rage in the heat of the moment.
We should be top 6 easy with this team and as much as I despise RD, it is the players, manager and coaches who have to take the blame that we are not this time.” —“ Always a worrying sign for me when the manager is digging out players attitudes in the press. Whether it is correct or not it has happened a couple of times in the past few weeks and makes me think something is not quiet right behind the scenes.” —“ Always goes well when a manager names and shames a player in the press” (in response to Bowyer singling out Bielik for criticism) —“ Surprised at LB naming a player like that. Keep it behind closed doors.” —“ Completely agree with you about player power, but Bowyer can't be exempt from criticism. He has an almost Messiah status with some, and has done since he first got the job, which I think can cloud judgment.”
Very good, shows how knee jerk we can be as fans (I understand people's concern with 4 in 17 though)
I feel like one of those posts is mine even!
That was just not good. I must admit. Starting to lose confidence in Bowyer. What a difference between Barnsley and this week. Why couldn't we just have built on that! Instead we've regressed. I believe we have the players but I don't think they're being managed well. That's my thoughts
Seems like my work, off the dome and unstructured. Or someone posts very similar to me when they're stressed out haha
Comments
So we can now add limping over the line in 18/19, along with others that have been stated by some such as we had the strongest squad that season and anything other than promotion would have been a failure.
Not as good as the claim I saw on Twitter recently that when he got us in the play offs the season before, that would have happened had Robinson stayed with us!
This is IMO because there is an onus for us to be more positive at home and Bowyer hasn't worked out a way to counter teams sitting back and breaking quickly. When our opponents have more ambition we can get through them but when they deprive us of space in the key areas we don't have answers. To effectively play the way we play, we have to move the ball quicker with more accuracy. For whatever reason (confidence or ability) we can't do it. We need to go ahead but rarely do that.
The problem with Bowyer is that he keeps flogging a dead horse in the hope that it will come back to life. If overall, the players aren't quite technically good enough to play the way you had hoped, identify how you can play differently with them. One of a few things that has made me question his judgement is when he has said he is happy with the number of chances we created and I think 'really?'.
My belief is our team know that we struggle to create chances which puts pressure on them defensively. There is the quality there and it is a jigsaw puzzle that Bowyer has to solve but he keeps trying to jam the wrong piece into the wrong space.
We were comfortably in the play offs and even decided to score all the goals in the final to make it entertaining for the neutrals. We had only one out and out striker for half the season too!
Matthews is probably the worst there, he was very good last season... Or did he flatter to deceive?
Maddison we all knew was a gamble and despite my feelings about his skill it appears his class was non existent.
Williams was Williams, worked hard and won free kicks... Did also score two so there's that.
Watson - None of us were as excited as Cawley about Watson despite his pedigree
Gilbey just hasn't come back from injury the same player. I think we have seen what he can do for maybe one full game?
Amos
Gunter Famewo Deji Purrington
Smith
Shinnie JFC
Millar (free role)
Stockley Aneke
The midfield need to win their battles and get the ball to the front players as quickly as possible. I think with the front palyers above you need less passing accuracy which should help this. I would say get the ball in the final third (from midfield or defence) as soon as possible and see what happens from there.
now we’ve got some pace back, hopefully better strike options (jury still out on Schwartz) hopefully we can back a plan A that involves getting the ball forwards quickly, running at pace and getting the ball into the box which we try and overload. Shinnie and JFC or Shinnie and Pratley in a 442, maybe a 352 may work with Gunter at the back and with JFC and Pratley with Shinnie in the middle.
If we don’t make it simpler, we will keep losing.
I'd be surprised if he was even in the first 11 against Gillingham on the 13th
if Millar was fit enough for 45 mins, start him and protect him when we are winning, instead of this constant sending on players when we are losing
im quoting what sky said, that wasn’t my opinion! I clearly stated sky as a source.
so you are disputing that we need a settled team?
More than the shape it is not about passing, passing, passing until we F it up. Which is our current way of playing. If we play a 4-4-2 with a pass, pass, pass mentality it won't improve things at all IMO.
I feel like one of those posts is mine even!
That was just not good. I must admit. Starting to lose confidence in Bowyer. What a difference between Barnsley and this week. Why couldn't we just have built on that! Instead we've regressed. I believe we have the players but I don't think they're being managed well. That's my thoughts
Seems like my work, off the dome and unstructured. Or someone posts very similar to me when they're stressed out haha