Has Bowyer lost it?

Scoham

Todds_right_hook said:

Scoham said:

Todds_right_hook said:

Bowyer has always treated certain players badly. Fosu for example, that went under the radar because we were winning!

Even the top managers don't get the most out of every player - is getting the best out of every player a realistic expectation? Sometimes players move on, learn from it and come back stronger.

It’s a certain type of player that bowyer can’t seem to manage and criticises, fosu, Maddison, Williams, Morgan. All players that can create and add something different in the final third

I keep seeing this list come up (you missed Oztumer...), but what about the likes of Aribo, Gallagher, Leko, Taylor and Millar?

Many fans demand passion and commitment from players, but now it seems some want standards to drop for certain players. Bowyer clearly went too far with some of the criticism though in fairness he seems to have calmed down recently.

On the individual m players Fosu didn’t fit the system and has possibly learnt from his mistakes.

Morgan has upped his work rate.

Maddison is now in League 2.

I like Williams but I also want us to move away from players who struggle to regularly play 90 minutes, I can understand why we let him go.

ForeverAddickted

Scoham said:

Todds_right_hook said:

Scoham said:

Todds_right_hook said:

Bowyer has always treated certain players badly. Fosu for example, that went under the radar because we were winning!

Even the top managers don't get the most out of every player - is getting the best out of every player a realistic expectation? Sometimes players move on, learn from it and come back stronger.

It’s a certain type of player that bowyer can’t seem to manage and criticises, fosu, Maddison, Williams, Morgan. All players that can create and add something different in the final third

I keep seeing this list come up (you missed Oztumer...), but what about the likes of Aribo, Gallagher, Leko, Taylor and Millar?

Many fans demand passion and commitment from players, but now it seems some want standards to drop for certain players. Bowyer clearly went too far with some of the criticism though in fairness he seems to have calmed down recently.

On the individual m players Fosu didn’t fit the system and has possibly learnt from his mistakes.

Morgan has upped his work rate.

Maddison is now in League 2.

I like Williams but I also want us to move away from players who struggle to regularly play 90 minutes, I can understand why we let him go.

Because it doesnt suit their narrative 

StigThundercock

If he thinks anybody’s fooled by that no better defenders available horseshit when we’ve spent 2 months watching that bilge from those duffers and square pegs then he’s lost it so badly he’ll never get it back 
Smyth at right back - that is all 

Todds_right_hook

Scoham said:

Todds_right_hook said:

Scoham said:

Todds_right_hook said:

Bowyer has always treated certain players badly. Fosu for example, that went under the radar because we were winning!

Even the top managers don't get the most out of every player - is getting the best out of every player a realistic expectation? Sometimes players move on, learn from it and come back stronger.

It’s a certain type of player that bowyer can’t seem to manage and criticises, fosu, Maddison, Williams, Morgan. All players that can create and add something different in the final third

I keep seeing this list come up (you missed Oztumer...), but what about the likes of Aribo, Gallagher, Leko, Taylor and Millar?

Many fans demand passion and commitment from players, but now it seems some want standards to drop for certain players. Bowyer clearly went too far with some of the criticism though in fairness he seems to have calmed down recently.

On the individual m players Fosu didn’t fit the system and has possibly learnt from his mistakes.

Morgan has upped his work rate.

Maddison is now in League 2.

I like Williams but I also want us to move away from players who struggle to regularly play 90 minutes, I can understand why we let him go.

Sorry everyone for criticising bowyer and providing examples of players he has needlessly called out. Thanks for the list of players he hasn’t called out when the reality is that he shouldn’t be calling out any players or fans for that matter. Which proves my point, he can’t handle certain players anymore.

all examples above were players managed by bowyer when we were doing well.  If Taylor got sent off for kicking out at a keeper now, would bowyer keep quiet?

I’ll stop about bowyers now because he is doing a great job! 

10th on ppg, negative performances, conceding freely. As I said this morning, would you all have given Robinson or slade this level of support.

we’ve been poor for over 12 calendar months now. I stand by my comments, bowyer is lucky to still have a job.

Todds_right_hook

ForeverAddickted said:

Scoham said:

Todds_right_hook said:

Scoham said:

Todds_right_hook said:

Bowyer has always treated certain players badly. Fosu for example, that went under the radar because we were winning!

Even the top managers don't get the most out of every player - is getting the best out of every player a realistic expectation? Sometimes players move on, learn from it and come back stronger.

It’s a certain type of player that bowyer can’t seem to manage and criticises, fosu, Maddison, Williams, Morgan. All players that can create and add something different in the final third

I keep seeing this list come up (you missed Oztumer...), but what about the likes of Aribo, Gallagher, Leko, Taylor and Millar?

Many fans demand passion and commitment from players, but now it seems some want standards to drop for certain players. Bowyer clearly went too far with some of the criticism though in fairness he seems to have calmed down recently.

On the individual m players Fosu didn’t fit the system and has possibly learnt from his mistakes.

Morgan has upped his work rate.

Maddison is now in League 2.

I like Williams but I also want us to move away from players who struggle to regularly play 90 minutes, I can understand why we let him go.

Because it doesnt suit their narrative 

And not wanting to admit that bowyer needlessly calls out players of a certain type suits your narrative.

Dazzler21

I'm going to throw it out there, Bowyer has managed most better than others, but Fosu he did mishandle, he has also mishandled a few others *at times*. I am strongly against slagging off your own players in the media, or the fans.

In Fosu's 27 games in 18/19 he still got 2 goals and 4 assists.

More assists than any of our other creative players this season in 26 games.

I definitely think there are players Bowyer can manage well and sometimes instances where he should probably breathe for a few minutes before handling or commenting.

Bowyer's criticism of Morgan worked. First time round he criticised Albie's fitness, post lockdown Albie can back quicker and fitter.

Then he criticised Albie's defending so Albie now kicks the shit out of everyone. 

Latest was criticising Albie for 'trying to smash the leather off the ball' when clearing danger so now he looks for an easy pass.

He's improved Albie imo, but needs to get the polish out to help Albie improve on his timing of shots and tackling.

Redrobo

Wheresmeticket? said:

Redrobo said:

Wheresmeticket? said:

The Red Robin said:

Squad isn’t good enough. Simple as that.

Look at Lincoln City.  Do you think individually their squad is stronger?  The difference is that their manager has average individuals playing together as a strong team.  He has sold them on the idea and they have belief.  

I collected a lot of lol’s for suggesting they would be in the top six at the end of the season, and yes, I think their squad was stronger than ours. Maybe still is. It would be wrong IMO to assume that little old Lincoln are punching above their weight or a bit lucky with their manager.
Cowley Bros took over at the end of 2015/16 season.
In 2016/17 they beat Ipswich, Oldham and Brighton to go into the 5th round of the FA cup, and then beat Burnley to get into the quarter finals as a non league club! 2017/18 they won the EFL Cup at Wembley. 2018/19 promotion to League 1.

Lincoln is a well run club, and one that has been well run for several years. One based on stability, good planning, and good signings. Steadily built over several years. They have a committed squad of players because of that. They are not lucky. They have worked hard.

They are light years away from where we are. We should be learning from them, but you carry on.

Well thanks for the permission.

You just rephrased the point I was making.

I'm not saying Lincoln got a bit lucky with their manager. I'm saying that their manager is doing what a manager should be doing. He is making the team as a whole perform better than its constituent parts.

"We should be learning from them". Exactly. But "we" aren't.

Really? I said  that I thought that their squad was stronger than ours and maybe still is. You are putting their success down to their manager. With respect, saying that they are performing well because of their manager is simplistic. They have been successful over a long period of time and have built on that success and the confidence that flows through the club because of that. Appleton has been there since 2019. Cowley for three years before that. Stability. Consistency. Everyone at the club working together, fans behind them and supporting everything they do.

We should be learning from them. Exactly. But are you? If Charlton as a club are going to move forward we need stability and consistency. Yes Bowyer needs more consistency in formation etc and has faults, but we should also look at the bigger picture and a timeline longer than four months. We re-set in October as a club. We were reborn then. 

I understand the Bowyer out campaign, I just think we need to just steady the club. I really don’t think this sustained attack on our manager is good for our club. We will be blaming COVID on him next.

The original poster was correct. Our squad wasn’t good enough. It looks a bit better now. Let’s give everyone a chance. Including ourselves.

Croydon

Gallagher is hardly a flair player. He's a fairly gritty midfielder who throws himself about the pitch. He's incredibly talented, but he's not a flair player as such, because he'll do the dirty work too.

EastTerrace

Although probably frustrated I didn’t like the way he had a dig at Lewis Page also, regarding the ongoing injuries.
There’s a good manager in there somewhere, but I don’t know where he’s gone.
Seems like he only has one way of man management though.

Saying that I’d love him to get his mojo back as us to go on a run, but it’s been looking very-end-of-Pardewesque for a couple of months now.

Gravesend_Addick

I reckon the Bowyer debate has split Charlton fans to around 50/50 now.

This debate will continue with point scoring from both sides depending on each match result until either our form picks up OR Bowyer leaves the club.

In my opinion, I know which one of those scenarios feels more likely at the moment 

Dazzler21

Not me, I'm staying Neutral until 36 games.

Scoham

Todds_right_hook said:

Scoham said:

Todds_right_hook said:

Scoham said:

Todds_right_hook said:

Bowyer has always treated certain players badly. Fosu for example, that went under the radar because we were winning!

Even the top managers don't get the most out of every player - is getting the best out of every player a realistic expectation? Sometimes players move on, learn from it and come back stronger.

It’s a certain type of player that bowyer can’t seem to manage and criticises, fosu, Maddison, Williams, Morgan. All players that can create and add something different in the final third

I keep seeing this list come up (you missed Oztumer...), but what about the likes of Aribo, Gallagher, Leko, Taylor and Millar?

Many fans demand passion and commitment from players, but now it seems some want standards to drop for certain players. Bowyer clearly went too far with some of the criticism though in fairness he seems to have calmed down recently.

On the individual m players Fosu didn’t fit the system and has possibly learnt from his mistakes.

Morgan has upped his work rate.

Maddison is now in League 2.

I like Williams but I also want us to move away from players who struggle to regularly play 90 minutes, I can understand why we let him go.

Sorry everyone for criticising bowyer and providing examples of players he has needlessly called out. Thanks for the list of players he hasn’t called out when the reality is that he shouldn’t be calling out any players or fans for that matter. Which proves my point, he can’t handle certain players anymore.

all examples above were players managed by bowyer when we were doing well.  If Taylor got sent off for kicking out at a keeper now, would bowyer keep quiet?

I’ll stop about bowyers now because he is doing a great job! 

10th on ppg, negative performances, conceding freely. As I said this morning, would you all have given Robinson or slade this level of support.

we’ve been poor for over 12 calendar months now. I stand by my comments, bowyer is lucky to still have a job.

I’ve criticised Bowyer too and think TS has a big call to either back him or replace him in the near future. I’m not saying he can do no wrong and I disagreed with him calling out those players recently and said so at the time.

We had the lowest budget last season and then lost three of our four main goalscorers in Gallagher, Taylor and Leko. Aneke couldn’t stay fit, Hemed couldn’t score and Bonne for all his effort and decent goal return wasn’t really good enough. Bowyer was left without enough attacking threats yet didn’t have the players to keep it tight defensively.

Then in addition to that he had all the nonsense off the field to deal with and the pandemic situation meaning it wasn’t a normal season.

We should be doing better but we also thought that under Parkinson in 10/11 just before he was sacked. In the end we came to realise that squad wasn’t good enough.

I’m not convinced Bowyer should stay but I also don’t think our problems will be solved just by changing the manager. I think it’s becoming clearer that Bowyer and Gallen took the wrong approach with too many older players coming in. They’ve tried to add youth and pace to our squad with three talented young midfielders coming in, and improved our options up front by swapping Bogle and Smyth for Schwartz and Stockley.

Bowyer has been calmer post match recently and had stuck with 4-4-2 until last night. He was left with one winger (we tried to sign a third on deadline day from the sounds of it) so was stuck between potentially overplaying Millar, playing CMs on the wing or changing to a diamond. With DJ now available hopefully he now sticks with a simple 4-4-2 or occasionally 4-5-1 if it suits the game better.

I’d at least give him a few more games now the window has closed and see where we are. Until yesterday there were signs of improvements. It’s worth seeing what he can do over the next few games. I don’t want us being one of those clubs who expect perfection and sack a manager every time the team are struggling.

Callumcafc

Bottom line for me: I don’t want Charlton to be one of those clubs that sacks their manager after a bad run of form. Half the 92 have had their managers for less than a year. It’s not surprising that most of the better teams and clubs have had their manager for longer than that.

Look at every great manager in history. All of them have tough spells at one point or another. 

Not saying Bowyer is the next Alex Ferguson but he’s proved he can get teams promoted from this league and that should be reason enough to give him a longer tether than the likes of Russell Slade who hasn’t. Even Karl Robinson got a season and a half of going nowhere before he moved on. Bowyer only gets six months at this level to correct the damage done by ESI & co?

Of course there has to be a point where enough is enough and we’re certainly heading that way but for me and many others it’s not there yet.

Maccn05

Todds_right_hook said:

ForeverAddickted said:

Todds_right_hook said:

ForeverAddickted said:

Todds_right_hook said:

ForeverAddickted said:

Todds_right_hook said:

Scoham said:

Todds_right_hook said:

Bowyer has always treated certain players badly. Fosu for example, that went under the radar because we were winning!

Even the top managers don't get the most out of every player - is getting the best out of every player a realistic expectation? Sometimes players move on, learn from it and come back stronger.

It’s a certain type of player that bowyer can’t seem to manage and criticises, fosu, Maddison, Williams, Morgan. All players that can create and add something different in the final third

Can you add Morgan to that list? - Could argue that Morgan is actually responding to Bowyer's comments and is raising his game

Yes, he is a flair player that received criticism from bowyer. Players like Pearce and Watson who have very little flair, seem to escape criticism 

To say Bowyer cant manage him though is bullshit

As for players like Pearce who he has been picking out after Accrington and Peterborough you mean?

Like I just said, you can argue that Bowyer's criticism of Morgan works because he responds to it

He doesn't go away and sulk

Did Williams go away and sulk? Did he get treated fairly? Am I wrong about fosu and Maddison?

No Williams got on with it himself, dont recall him being called out again after Shrewsbury because he got on with the task, and like Morgan learnt from his mistake

Nor can I confirm / deny what went wrong with Fosu

Maddison on the other hand... Well I've already said I cant repeat what I've been told

But that’s the point.

bowyer called him out and shouldn’t ldnt have. Bowyer called out Morgan and shouldn’t have. Despite fosu being one of our top players under Robinson, bowyer got rid. Look at fosu now. Despite Maddison’s impressive league 1 states, bowyer wouldn’t play him but plays pratley and Watson every week.

the common denominator here is bowyer. He has lost it, he is negative, he is stubborn, he gets rid of flair players, he drops match winners all the time

he is very lucky to still have a job.

Your examples at a bit selective dare I say it using only certain examples to suit your narrative.

Well what about Taylor & Aribo?what about Leko & Millar? All flair players that Bows has got on with and helped improve.

As for his favourites he compared JP’s football to school boy football last month and Matthews last week.

How can you say Maddison was treated poorly he’s been faking injuries & illness, not turning up never mind his nocturnal activities and you think Bows should play him?

Im so bored and frustrated at our fans and their constant desire to criticise and destroy everything and anything. We’re turning into Arsenal or Utd fans, demanding heads roll every defeat and declaring that we have some kind of right to go up and be better than Lincoln & Stanley. no player is ever good enough we have thread after thread on here being critical of almost every player - dare I say it’s become almost toxic.

Scoham

There also seems to be this feeling among some that clubs like Lincoln would happily swap their squad for ours. No doubt we’re underachieving and have some relatively big names but clubs doing better than us wouldn’t want to swap their midfielders for the likes of JFC, Watson and Pratley. Why would they? They’re doing well with the players they have.

PopIcon

Bowyer's team selection is bizarre. I'm gutted as I wanted him to succeed, we need to move on.

cafcfan1990

ForeverAddickted said: 

Scoham said:

Todds_right_hook said:

Scoham said:

Todds_right_hook said:

Bowyer has always treated certain players badly. Fosu for example, that went under the radar because we were winning!

Even the top managers don't get the most out of every player - is getting the best out of every player a realistic expectation? Sometimes players move on, learn from it and come back stronger.

It’s a certain type of player that bowyer can’t seem to manage and criticises, fosu, Maddison, Williams, Morgan. All players that can create and add something different in the final third

I keep seeing this list come up (you missed Oztumer...), but what about the likes of Aribo, Gallagher, Leko, Taylor and Millar?

Many fans demand passion and commitment from players, but now it seems some want standards to drop for certain players. Bowyer clearly went too far with some of the criticism though in fairness he seems to have calmed down recently.

On the individual m players Fosu didn’t fit the system and has possibly learnt from his mistakes.

Morgan has upped his work rate.

Maddison is now in League 2.

I like Williams but I also want us to move away from players who struggle to regularly play 90 minutes, I can understand why we let him go.

Because it doesnt suit their narrative 

I don’t actually agree that Bowyer can’t manage “flair” players. To me it’s fairly obvious, he can’t manage the flair players who don’t work hard. Taylor and Maddison are the two clear examples of this. Taylor is a prick but you can’t fault his effort and determination to win whilst on the pitch. Even before things got really sour, Maddison clearly wasn’t that type of player. I think he treated Williams a bit harshly, because although his tackling and all round game wasn’t fantastic, he still put the yards and effort in. Fosu didn’t and that’s why Bowyer rarely picked him. 

I don’t think it’s fair for Bowyer to expect every player to be like him. He could do a bit of everything but that doesn’t mean everyone can, and let’s not forget he was simply a better player than any of our current squad are ever likely to be. Sometimes I do think Bowyer spends too much time focusing on what players can’t do, rather than playing to their strengths. Criticism of Morgan and Williams is proof of this, although in the case of the former I am more forgiving as he’s a young player with more scope to improve. 

Having said that, I don’t think we should be too critical. Let’s not forget that passion, determination and will to win was exactly why we fell in love with him as our manager in the first place. As fans we’ve always demanded 100% effort, so Bowyer criticising and pulling players on that is surely what we would do?

My only concern is, and always has been the knock on effect. There’s a way to get it across to the players, publicly humiliating them isn’t it. There’s a fine line between constructive criticism and causing offence, I think too often this season it’s falling into the latter, mainly because he’s feeling the pressure like never before. I think Jackson has a major part to play with that because he seems way more suited to deliver the message. 

cafcfan1990

Croydon said:

Gallagher is hardly a flair player. He's a fairly gritty midfielder who throws himself about the pitch. He's incredibly talented, but he's not a flair player as such, because he'll do the dirty work too.

I agree, never saw Gallagher as a flair player, he was a slightly more attacking box to box midfielder. 

The Prince-e-Paul

Dazzler21 said:

The Prince-e-Paul said:

If our signing plan had emulated Lincoln's, our fan base would have hit the roof. Many would have been calling TS potless. The fact they have been so successful is both lucky and clever. If the plan hadn't worked, they've not overspent, if it works they go up with no financial worries and start in championship with a bucket of cash to spend. 

Lucky? Seriously?

Lucky for Lincoln that it has worked out this season again. They had an average player age of 31 last season, 22 this. I listened to an interview with their manager and he said their secret to success was to totally overhaul their squad and get all of their business done very early in the pre-season window. They scouted the young loan talent and made all of the deals happen, pretty much before the window openedn and all deals were signed up within a few days of opening. Nothing lucky about that, it is excellent scouting and planning. The luck is whether the complete squad overhaul actually works.

Our squad was described by someone on CL as "Filthy" with a supposed level of quality, that would result in us tearing this league a new one. Well the luck hasn't been with our much changed team that lost so regularly last term. Whether it's down to Bowyer or the players, something needs to change. It's far easier to change a manager than 15-20 players, but realistically, how many of our 20+ would we or Bowyer want back next season, regardless of what league we are in. 

This season wasn't a free-hit, it was an opportunity to see whether the poor planning and investment of ESI, could be overcome with the scraps left over at the end of the pre-season window, that other League One managers didn't want, or thought were overpriced. It hasn't worked, so the luck and judgement was equally poor. 

Powell's first half season we finished the season lower than when he started at 15th place. With 15 new players we smashed that league to pieces. We were all there so saw the good, bad and ugly wins by the odd goal. That team became a team and winning became a habit. Was it lucky?

This season it seems that our squad isn't a team, more a bunch of players that all happen to be wearing the same colour. 

Has Bowyer lost it? Did he ever have it?

Karim_myBagheri

oohaahmortimer said:

Well behind in the thread , so apologies if already mentioned but Afka is playing mind games here ffs 
I’ve looked , re looked and looked again thinking it might be an ellliotttt type spelling thing with AFKABartram “LOL” ing his own post but he’s only gone and done it and it’s doing my head in , I’m calling a stewards enquiry, it just doesn’t sit right with me but it got me to stop thinking about JFC slicking back his fucking Barnet for a bit so not all bad 

I can see JFC hair is gonna be a problem. the lucky twat. 

ozaddick

Don't know if it's been mentioned already but IMHO when SG was interviewed Tuesday on VP he certainly have the impression that promotion THIS season was absolutely paramount. I don't know what that means for LB if we don't win in the next couple of games, but sentiment isn't a driving factor in today's game. 

ozaddick

Also players like Watson don't go from being captain of a big championship club @ Forest to the displays he's had this season without an influence from a manager. He's far better than what we are seeing. 

Callumcafc

October 27 2018. Charlton have just lost 1-0 away at Rochdale. It’s the Addicks third defeat in six games, winning only once in that time span. 

Charlton have fallen to 13th in the table after sitting in 6th a month earlier. Lee Bowyer tells the press he has questioned the attitude of the players in the dressing room, reserving special criticism for Krystian Bielik. Everything looks like it’s gone pear shaped.

Surely the only way we ended up getting promoted at the end of the season was by sacking Bowyer and getting someone in who knew what they were doing?

Post match comments:

— “ Massive reality check for those who think we are going up. 
On paper we should finish top six.

But I've said it before this lot are mentally weak and we are where we are. 
Fuck knows what happens next next”
— “ We’re underachieving. The squad isn’t brilliant but it’s better than 13th in league 1”
—“ A system that has been figured out with a manager seeminlgly hopeful a change of personnel will do the trick, not helped by paid footballers being unable to pass or control a football.

It’s not just a bad day at the office, we just don’t have a winning mentality.”
—“ That was just not good. I must admit. Starting to lose confidence in Bowyer. What a difference between Barnsley and this week. Why couldn't we just have built on that! Instead we've regressed. I believe we have the players but I don't think they're being managed well. That's my thoughts.”
—“ Regardless of the owner LB and the boys are doing a pretty s*** job.
Enbarrassing but sadly not a surprise.
Nothing will change until we get a new owner or get lucky with a manager.”
—“ Promotion via the play-offs is a pipe dream. Too many teams in this league know how to score goals & win games. Its not all about pretty football, its about getting the ball in the back of the net. End of.”
—“ I really hope I am wrong but can’t help thinking Bowyer will go into full Paulo Di Canio / Roy Keane mode as a manager and turn half the team against him with ill considered bursts of rage in the heat of the moment. 

We should be top 6 easy with this team and as much as I despise RD, it is the players, manager and coaches who have to take the blame that we are not this time.”
—“ Always a worrying sign for me when the manager is digging out players attitudes in the press. Whether it is correct or not it has happened a couple of times in the past few weeks and makes me think something is not quiet right behind the scenes.”
—“ Always goes well when a manager names and shames a player in the press” (in response to Bowyer singling out Bielik for criticism)
—“ Surprised at LB naming a player like that. Keep it behind closed doors.”
—“ Completely agree with you about player power, but Bowyer can't be exempt from criticism. He has an almost Messiah status with some, and has done since he first got the job, which I think can cloud judgment.”

queensland_addick

Something has to change for sure and I'd rather see those changes with Bowyer still in charge!
Just as Albie is inexperienced and needs coaching, Bowyer himself is an inexperienced manager who also needs coaching.
ATM he's flailing in the wind, clutching at straws and making himself look daft at times.
He needs to get back to basics and stop trying to be so clever.
Play his best players in their best positions in a simple 4 4 2.
If a player is in form, keep playing them. It's not rocket science, it's common sense!
Grind out a few results, get some confidence back, then he can start tinkering with fancy formations again.
I think he'd benefit greatly from an experienced DOF, someone like Curbs would be ideal.

Todds_right_hook

Callumcafc said:

October 27 2018. Charlton have just lost 1-0 away at Rochdale. It’s the Addicks third defeat in six games, winning only once in that time span. 

Charlton have fallen to 13th in the table after sitting in 6th a month earlier. Lee Bowyer tells the press he has questioned the attitude of the players in the dressing room, reserving special criticism for Krystian Bielik. Everything looks like it’s gone pear shaped.

Surely the only way we ended up getting promoted at the end of the season was by sacking Bowyer and getting someone in who knew what they were doing?

Post match comments:

— “ Massive reality check for those who think we are going up. 
On paper we should finish top six.

But I've said it before this lot are mentally weak and we are where we are. 
Fuck knows what happens next next”
— “ We’re underachieving. The squad isn’t brilliant but it’s better than 13th in league 1”
—“ A system that has been figured out with a manager seeminlgly hopeful a change of personnel will do the trick, not helped by paid footballers being unable to pass or control a football.

It’s not just a bad day at the office, we just don’t have a winning mentality.”
—“ That was just not good. I must admit. Starting to lose confidence in Bowyer. What a difference between Barnsley and this week. Why couldn't we just have built on that! Instead we've regressed. I believe we have the players but I don't think they're being managed well. That's my thoughts.”
—“ Regardless of the owner LB and the boys are doing a pretty s*** job.
Enbarrassing but sadly not a surprise.
Nothing will change until we get a new owner or get lucky with a manager.”
—“ Promotion via the play-offs is a pipe dream. Too many teams in this league know how to score goals & win games. Its not all about pretty football, its about getting the ball in the back of the net. End of.”
—“ I really hope I am wrong but can’t help thinking Bowyer will go into full Paulo Di Canio / Roy Keane mode as a manager and turn half the team against him with ill considered bursts of rage in the heat of the moment. 

We should be top 6 easy with this team and as much as I despise RD, it is the players, manager and coaches who have to take the blame that we are not this time.”
—“ Always a worrying sign for me when the manager is digging out players attitudes in the press. Whether it is correct or not it has happened a couple of times in the past few weeks and makes me think something is not quiet right behind the scenes.”
—“ Always goes well when a manager names and shames a player in the press” (in response to Bowyer singling out Bielik for criticism)
—“ Surprised at LB naming a player like that. Keep it behind closed doors.”
—“ Completely agree with you about player power, but Bowyer can't be exempt from criticism. He has an almost Messiah status with some, and has done since he first got the job, which I think can cloud judgment.”

It’s not 2018. Bowyer has regressed since then. 

agim

Redrobo said:

Wheresmeticket? said:

The Red Robin said:

Squad isn’t good enough. Simple as that.

Look at Lincoln City.  Do you think individually their squad is stronger?  The difference is that their manager has average individuals playing together as a strong team.  He has sold them on the idea and they have belief.  

I collected a lot of lol’s for suggesting they would be in the top six at the end of the season, and yes, I think their squad was stronger than ours. Maybe still is. It would be wrong IMO to assume that little old Lincoln are punching above their weight or a bit lucky with their manager.
Cowley Bros took over at the end of 2015/16 season.
In 2016/17 they beat Ipswich, Oldham and Brighton to go into the 5th round of the FA cup, and then beat Burnley to get into the quarter finals as a non league club! 2017/18 they won the EFL Cup at Wembley. 2018/19 promotion to League 1.

Lincoln is a well run club, and one that has been well run for several years. One based on stability, good planning, and good signings. Steadily built over several years. They have a committed squad of players because of that. They are not lucky. They have worked hard.

They are light years away from where we are. We should be learning from them, but you carry on.

This!

Whether we like it or not this league is not easy to get out of. Like I've said a few times on this post I don't think hiring and firing is the way forward. Everyone at the club is under performing at the moment from the management team to the players. I'm not a fan of this squad. I feel we are missing a couple of ingredients that we need to get out of this league. One being a twenty goal a season forward, two being a midfielder who is up there in the scoring charts (JFC could possibly be this man but he needs liscence to get forward more) and two strong, good in the air defenders who aren't slouches. Could this be Famewo and Innis? Not sure they played a handful of games together and got injured surprise surprise. 

I feel we won't make the playoffs but I believe we can rip this squad up and with the backing of TS start again. Get Millar in on a permanent and with the new fella we have pace and skill on the wings. Get a work horse to play along side JFC or Morgan who's going to break up play in there and younger Prats. Sign Colby Bishop from Accy he has something about him

DamoNorthStand

agim said:

Redrobo said:

Wheresmeticket? said:

The Red Robin said:

Squad isn’t good enough. Simple as that.

Look at Lincoln City.  Do you think individually their squad is stronger?  The difference is that their manager has average individuals playing together as a strong team.  He has sold them on the idea and they have belief.  

I collected a lot of lol’s for suggesting they would be in the top six at the end of the season, and yes, I think their squad was stronger than ours. Maybe still is. It would be wrong IMO to assume that little old Lincoln are punching above their weight or a bit lucky with their manager.
Cowley Bros took over at the end of 2015/16 season.
In 2016/17 they beat Ipswich, Oldham and Brighton to go into the 5th round of the FA cup, and then beat Burnley to get into the quarter finals as a non league club! 2017/18 they won the EFL Cup at Wembley. 2018/19 promotion to League 1.

Lincoln is a well run club, and one that has been well run for several years. One based on stability, good planning, and good signings. Steadily built over several years. They have a committed squad of players because of that. They are not lucky. They have worked hard.

They are light years away from where we are. We should be learning from them, but you carry on.

This!

Whether we like it or not this league is not easy to get out of. Like I've said a few times on this post I don't think hiring and firing is the way forward. Everyone at the club is under performing at the moment from the management team to the players. I'm not a fan of this squad. I feel we are missing a couple of ingredients that we need to get out of this league. One being a twenty goal a season forward, two being a midfielder who is up there in the scoring charts (JFC could possibly be this man but he needs liscence to get forward more) and two strong, good in the air defenders who aren't slouches. Could this be Famewo and Innis? Not sure they played a handful of games together and got injured surprise surprise. 

I feel we won't make the playoffs but I believe we can rip this squad up and with the backing of TS start again. Get Millar in on a permanent and with the new fella we have pace and skill on the wings. Get a work horse to play along side JFC or Morgan who's going to break up play in there and younger Prats. Sign Colby Bishop from Accy he has something about him

Bowyer built this squad with some significant backing from TS.

So what you’re saying is Bowyer will rip up the squad that Bowyer built and have another go at spending more of TS’ money.

How many go’s does he get? 

As a league one club you will do well to attract better pedigree players than he got this time round.

Todds_right_hook

ozaddick said:

Also players like Watson don't go from being captain of a big championship club @ Forest to the displays he's had this season without an influence from a manager. He's far better than what we are seeing. 

Are you Lyle Taylor?

Todds_right_hook

The Prince-e-Paul said:

Dazzler21 said:

The Prince-e-Paul said:

If our signing plan had emulated Lincoln's, our fan base would have hit the roof. Many would have been calling TS potless. The fact they have been so successful is both lucky and clever. If the plan hadn't worked, they've not overspent, if it works they go up with no financial worries and start in championship with a bucket of cash to spend. 

Lucky? Seriously?

Lucky for Lincoln that it has worked out this season again. They had an average player age of 31 last season, 22 this. I listened to an interview with their manager and he said their secret to success was to totally overhaul their squad and get all of their business done very early in the pre-season window. They scouted the young loan talent and made all of the deals happen, pretty much before the window openedn and all deals were signed up within a few days of opening. Nothing lucky about that, it is excellent scouting and planning. The luck is whether the complete squad overhaul actually works.

Our squad was described by someone on CL as "Filthy" with a supposed level of quality, that would result in us tearing this league a new one. Well the luck hasn't been with our much changed team that lost so regularly last term. Whether it's down to Bowyer or the players, something needs to change. It's far easier to change a manager than 15-20 players, but realistically, how many of our 20+ would we or Bowyer want back next season, regardless of what league we are in. 

This season wasn't a free-hit, it was an opportunity to see whether the poor planning and investment of ESI, could be overcome with the scraps left over at the end of the pre-season window, that other League One managers didn't want, or thought were overpriced. It hasn't worked, so the luck and judgement was equally poor. 

Powell's first half season we finished the season lower than when he started at 15th place. With 15 new players we smashed that league to pieces. We were all there so saw the good, bad and ugly wins by the odd goal. That team became a team and winning became a habit. Was it lucky?

This season it seems that our squad isn't a team, more a bunch of players that all happen to be wearing the same colour. 

Has Bowyer lost it? Did he ever have it?

Yes to both.  He definitely had it

The injuries last season and the off field goings on are a major cause of his downfall in my opinion.

Its a shame that he appears to be a shadow of himself, I really want him to turn it around but don't think he will and for that reason, I would make the change now to give the replacement as much time as possible to assess the squad and identify targets.  If Bowyer does last until the end of the season, it will be his last unless we go on a very very good run.

As I said, Bowyer definitely had it and for that,if I ever bump into him in a pub when I'm drunk, i would try to lick his face and tell him that I love him.

Todds_right_hook

agim said:

Redrobo said:

Wheresmeticket? said:

The Red Robin said:

Squad isn’t good enough. Simple as that.

Look at Lincoln City.  Do you think individually their squad is stronger?  The difference is that their manager has average individuals playing together as a strong team.  He has sold them on the idea and they have belief.  

I collected a lot of lol’s for suggesting they would be in the top six at the end of the season, and yes, I think their squad was stronger than ours. Maybe still is. It would be wrong IMO to assume that little old Lincoln are punching above their weight or a bit lucky with their manager.
Cowley Bros took over at the end of 2015/16 season.
In 2016/17 they beat Ipswich, Oldham and Brighton to go into the 5th round of the FA cup, and then beat Burnley to get into the quarter finals as a non league club! 2017/18 they won the EFL Cup at Wembley. 2018/19 promotion to League 1.

Lincoln is a well run club, and one that has been well run for several years. One based on stability, good planning, and good signings. Steadily built over several years. They have a committed squad of players because of that. They are not lucky. They have worked hard.

They are light years away from where we are. We should be learning from them, but you carry on.

This!

Whether we like it or not this league is not easy to get out of. Like I've said a few times on this post I don't think hiring and firing is the way forward. Everyone at the club is under performing at the moment from the management team to the players. I'm not a fan of this squad. I feel we are missing a couple of ingredients that we need to get out of this league. One being a twenty goal a season forward, two being a midfielder who is up there in the scoring charts (JFC could possibly be this man but he needs liscence to get forward more) and two strong, good in the air defenders who aren't slouches. Could this be Famewo and Innis? Not sure they played a handful of games together and got injured surprise surprise. 

I feel we won't make the playoffs but I believe we can rip this squad up and with the backing of TS start again. Get Millar in on a permanent and with the new fella we have pace and skill on the wings. Get a work horse to play along side JFC or Morgan who's going to break up play in there and younger Prats. Sign Colby Bishop from Accy he has something about him

You do realise that Accrington Stanley are a lot better than us and on current form, will be as a minimum in the play offs.  Us on current form will be 15th!