haven't read this thread yet but 2 things today that further convince me that bowyer is lacking in the football manager department:
1) Playing Darren Pratley 2) Leaving Stockley on his own up top once down to 10 men in a must win game
Having played the game, you really surprise me @do@DOUCHER
Pratley gives us a physical presence in the middle of the pitch. He covers yards, lots of them, he’s big and imposing, mixes it and also keeps possession. He gives 100% effort 100% of the time.
If you think at times we are a bit powder puff as a team, imagine us on a frozen, poor quality pitch against a direct physical team without him.
At the end of the day yesterday was a really poor result that means we failed to close the gap on teams around us. From a game point of view I enjoyed it and thought we were by far the better team. It seems we are going through a patch where teams are smashing worldies in and everything they do seems to go in whereas we are hitting the woodwork and just not getting the breaks. However the excuses are running a bit thin imo every week the after game interviews are blaming all sorts of random stuff. This week it was the opposition managers fault we lost ! Isnt that his job to try and do whatever he can to win ? The luck will turn in the end but I'm not sure if it will be in time to get us promoted this year. In the meantime all we can do is carry on but it would be great if we could not have the poor us routine after the match. It's a time for positive attitude from the manager not all this negative crap
Our fans are comical! Slate bowyer for tinkering and the poor fella can’t even do right when he sticks with the same line up! Ironically we lose JFC through not tinkering....
There was not a lot wrong with that performance as a whole today. A dreadful piece of defending from Deji cost us! Is Bowyer really to blame for that? Really?
You forgot to mention their third goal where their playmaker was given freedom to bring the ball thirty yards into our 18yd. That was catastrophic defending. Our first goal defending was nowhere near as bad as that third. Also Purrington got roasted again for their second which allowed the cross to come in.
Who coaches the players? Everybody's fault but Bowyer
Our fans are comical! Slate bowyer for tinkering and the poor fella can’t even do right when he sticks with the same line up! Ironically we lose JFC through not tinkering....
There was not a lot wrong with that performance as a whole today. A dreadful piece of defending from Deji cost us! Is Bowyer really to blame for that? Really?
You forgot to mention their third goal where their playmaker was given freedom to bring the ball thirty yards into our 18yd. That was catastrophic defending. Our first goal defending was nowhere near as bad as that third. Also Purrington got roasted again for their second which allowed the cross to come in.
Who coaches the players? Everybody's fault but Bowyer
Any reason you believe that's a coaching issue? These are professional footballers playing in a near elite league, not sure they need to be coached to go to the ball there
Our fans are comical! Slate bowyer for tinkering and the poor fella can’t even do right when he sticks with the same line up! Ironically we lose JFC through not tinkering....
There was not a lot wrong with that performance as a whole today. A dreadful piece of defending from Deji cost us! Is Bowyer really to blame for that? Really?
You forgot to mention their third goal where their playmaker was given freedom to bring the ball thirty yards into our 18yd. That was catastrophic defending. Our first goal defending was nowhere near as bad as that third. Also Purrington got roasted again for their second which allowed the cross to come in.
Who coaches the players? Everybody's fault but Bowyer
Any reason you believe that's a coaching issue? These are professional footballers playing in a near elite league, not sure they need to be coached to go to the ball ther
Do you think the players have all made a career, in some cases a very long career, at a higher level by regular turning in half backed performances and not being able to do the basics?
Coaching isn't about learning to pass, shoot or tackle.
Our fans are comical! Slate bowyer for tinkering and the poor fella can’t even do right when he sticks with the same line up! Ironically we lose JFC through not tinkering....
There was not a lot wrong with that performance as a whole today. A dreadful piece of defending from Deji cost us! Is Bowyer really to blame for that? Really?
You forgot to mention their third goal where their playmaker was given freedom to bring the ball thirty yards into our 18yd. That was catastrophic defending. Our first goal defending was nowhere near as bad as that third. Also Purrington got roasted again for their second which allowed the cross to come in.
Who coaches the players? Everybody's fault but Bowyer
Any reason you believe that's a coaching issue? These are professional footballers playing in a near elite league, not sure they need to be coached to go to the ball there
Because it happens every week. Positional play and marking are all coaching issues
Our fans are comical! Slate bowyer for tinkering and the poor fella can’t even do right when he sticks with the same line up! Ironically we lose JFC through not tinkering....
There was not a lot wrong with that performance as a whole today. A dreadful piece of defending from Deji cost us! Is Bowyer really to blame for that? Really?
You forgot to mention their third goal where their playmaker was given freedom to bring the ball thirty yards into our 18yd. That was catastrophic defending. Our first goal defending was nowhere near as bad as that third. Also Purrington got roasted again for their second which allowed the cross to come in.
Who coaches the players? Everybody's fault but Bowyer
Any reason you believe that's a coaching issue? These are professional footballers playing in a near elite league, not sure they need to be coached to go to the ball there
Because it happens every week. Positional play and marking are all coaching issues
Well we'll probably never agree which is fair enough, but for me it's not a shape issue or a zonal issue, the player knows who his man is.
I think Bowyer will see out the season. I don't think he will be the manager at the start of next season
That's how I see it. And it's wrong. Bring in a new manager now so he can assess the squad. Don't leave it to the summer when he doesn't know what the squad is like
agreed - another few weeks of this and i think LB will have managed his way out of a job and TS will be able to act knowing that he has the backing of the vast majority for such a decision
another few weeks ? .. if Bowyer survives for another few weeks after his total mismanagement of the team this season, he'll be here until April/May when we have failed to get anywhere near promotion .. we need a manager experienced in tactics and man management if we stand any chance of going up, and Bowyer is not that manager. However, I still feel that Sandy doesn't know enough or doesn't have the heart to sack him. Problem is another season in this division will be a disaster, no income, a player exodus and yet another term of rebuilding and hoping . Bowyer has lost it, he need to be replaced.
This 110% Lincs and Gravesend.
I was looking for the words to generalise about the predicament TS is in but you've covered it.
Yes Thomas is clearly business savvy but footy.... No way...hence his dilema.
I'm really concerned about not going up this season... There is literally nobody running away with it and with 18 games to go there is still time to change things.
TS would be derilict in his duty as CEO if he let's these performances carry on. I swear that after 50 years of watching Charlton that there are fundamental issues in the dressing room and with tactics.
LB love him or not is out of his depth big time and to be honest should be replaced asap.
Everyone wanted Bowyer to stop “tinkering”:as they call it, and start the same 11 that won at Rochdale with a near perfect performance. So that is what he did. And how was he rewarded?
Within * 20 seconds* of k.o. Oshi, who had a cracking game at Rochdale, provides an inch perfect knock down - for Rob Lee’s son in a blue shirt. A mistake that Oshi always looks like he has in him, which is why he is where he is. Then JFC, who had just started to run the game, goes down with the hammy they all knew about, but someone told Bow was ok to risk. Early game hamstrings are a sure sign something isnt right, thats what did for Watson couple of games back. How about all you Championship Managers ask some questions about that side of things, because you know, even Paul Cook can’t heal the sick.
Is any of this Bowyer’s fault? . Is it his fault that we injure both our centre backs who keep 6 consec.clean sheets, in training? And that both of them are out for the top end of original estimates? And just who are the better centre backs we could have brought in for £500 a week, as that was all that was left under the ridiculous salary cap? And what would we have done with them if, as Bow had probably been promised, both Famewo and Inniss were back by today?
But yeah, Paul effing Cook. FFS.
This.
Also - I manage staff. I ensure they are trained, know what to do, and know about policies and procedures. But sometimes they still get things wrong. And when they do, my manager isn’t looking to give me the elbow - we look at how we can work with the staff to eradicate their mistakes.
Last week, everyone was back in love with LB, he hadn’t lost the dressing room, we were going to make top 6, maybe top 2. This week, it’s “LB’s got to go...”
It’s a marathon not a sprint. We are one point off the play offs and only 6 off second place. Bow’s is right - for a team thrown together in the worst possible circumstances when it looked like the club might fold, to be in the top 6 most of the season so far, that is overachieving by any measure. And all credit to LB and JJ to be able to achieve what they have so far this season.
We've only been around 6th for the last few weeks because we've played more games though, something which has masked our slide. Indeed you'd expect us to drop 1 place this afternoon with Oxford facing Wigan.
I think Bowyer will see out the season. I don't think he will be the manager at the start of next season
That's how I see it. And it's wrong. Bring in a new manager now so he can assess the squad. Don't leave it to the summer when he doesn't know what the squad is like
agreed - another few weeks of this and i think LB will have managed his way out of a job and TS will be able to act knowing that he has the backing of the vast majority for such a decision
another few weeks ? .. if Bowyer survives for another few weeks after his total mismanagement of the team this season, he'll be here until April/May when we have failed to get anywhere near promotion .. we need a manager experienced in tactics and man management if we stand any chance of going up, and Bowyer is not that manager. However, I still feel that Sandy doesn't know enough or doesn't have the heart to sack him. Problem is another season in this division will be a disaster, no income, a player exodus and yet another term of rebuilding and hoping . Bowyer has lost it, he need to be replaced.
This 110% Lincs and Gravesend.
I was looking for the words to generalise about the predicament TS is in but you've covered it.
Yes Thomas is clearly business savvy but footy.... No way...hence his dilema.
I'm really concerned about not going up this season... There is literally nobody running away with it and with 18 games to go there is still time to change things.
TS would be derilict in his duty as CEO if he let's these performances carry on. I swear that after 50 years of watching Charlton that there are fundamental issues in the dressing room and with tactics.
LB love him or not is out of his depth big time and to be honest should be replaced asap.
We are in League One not the Champions League or even the Championship. Most of LB’s managerial career has been conducted at League One level.
In his first season in charge he took over Robinson’s failing side, and turned things around in time to make the play offs.
In his first full season he got us into the play offs again, winning promotion in the final at Wembley.
The next season saw him almost guide us to safety in the Championship, but for our top scorer going on strike, and Barnsley remarkably winning their final two games against Forest and Brentford with injury time goals. All of this against a backdrop of the mad Belgian and the ESI shysters, we went down by 1 point.
This season, we almost went bust in the early season, with stability only arriving at the end of September. Despite that, we’ve been in the play off places nearly all season, and now are only one point outside them, 6 points off top 2. There are still 54 points to play for.
Every season has required an almost total rebuild as we have lost talented players either because they were sold from under us or recalled by their home clubs during the season . Not to mention the injuries to key players.
I think Bowyer will see out the season. I don't think he will be the manager at the start of next season
That's how I see it. And it's wrong. Bring in a new manager now so he can assess the squad. Don't leave it to the summer when he doesn't know what the squad is like
agreed - another few weeks of this and i think LB will have managed his way out of a job and TS will be able to act knowing that he has the backing of the vast majority for such a decision
another few weeks ? .. if Bowyer survives for another few weeks after his total mismanagement of the team this season, he'll be here until April/May when we have failed to get anywhere near promotion .. we need a manager experienced in tactics and man management if we stand any chance of going up, and Bowyer is not that manager. However, I still feel that Sandy doesn't know enough or doesn't have the heart to sack him. Problem is another season in this division will be a disaster, no income, a player exodus and yet another term of rebuilding and hoping . Bowyer has lost it, he need to be replaced.
This 110% Lincs and Gravesend.
I was looking for the words to generalise about the predicament TS is in but you've covered it.
Yes Thomas is clearly business savvy but footy.... No way...hence his dilema.
I'm really concerned about not going up this season... There is literally nobody running away with it and with 18 games to go there is still time to change things.
TS would be derilict in his duty as CEO if he let's these performances carry on. I swear that after 50 years of watching Charlton that there are fundamental issues in the dressing room and with tactics.
LB love him or not is out of his depth big time and to be honest should be replaced asap.
TS Derelict in his duty, eh? It’s his club and his money. What’s 50 years of support got to do with the price of eggs I’ve got 65 so what. And the dressing room unrest has been dispelled hasn’t it now certain personnel have left? If not where’s your evidence on that?
Tactics and team selections I grant you have been questionable at times and the slating of players in public not on but as I’ve said before and I’ll say it again ,TS has just backed LB in the transfer window and is unlikely to pull the trigger three games on. He’ll do it when he feels the time is ready. Keep thumping the tub as much as you like but the reality is fans will just have to suck it up meanwhile.
I think Bowyer will see out the season. I don't think he will be the manager at the start of next season
That's how I see it. And it's wrong. Bring in a new manager now so he can assess the squad. Don't leave it to the summer when he doesn't know what the squad is like
agreed - another few weeks of this and i think LB will have managed his way out of a job and TS will be able to act knowing that he has the backing of the vast majority for such a decision
another few weeks ? .. if Bowyer survives for another few weeks after his total mismanagement of the team this season, he'll be here until April/May when we have failed to get anywhere near promotion .. we need a manager experienced in tactics and man management if we stand any chance of going up, and Bowyer is not that manager. However, I still feel that Sandy doesn't know enough or doesn't have the heart to sack him. Problem is another season in this division will be a disaster, no income, a player exodus and yet another term of rebuilding and hoping . Bowyer has lost it, he need to be replaced.
This 110% Lincs and Gravesend.
I was looking for the words to generalise about the predicament TS is in but you've covered it.
Yes Thomas is clearly business savvy but footy.... No way...hence his dilema.
I'm really concerned about not going up this season... There is literally nobody running away with it and with 18 games to go there is still time to change things.
TS would be derilict in his duty as CEO if he let's these performances carry on. I swear that after 50 years of watching Charlton that there are fundamental issues in the dressing room and with tactics.
LB love him or not is out of his depth big time and to be honest should be replaced asap.
TS Derelict in his duty, eh? It’s his club and his money. What’s 50 years of support got to do with the price of eggs I’ve got 65 so what. And the dressing room unrest has been dispelled hasn’t it now certain personnel have left? If not where’s your evidence on that?
Tactics and team selections I grant you have been questionable at times and the public slating of players in public not on but as I’ve said before and I’ll say it again ,TS has just backed LB in the transfer window and is unlikely to pull the trigger two games on. He’ll do it when he feels the time is ready. Keep thumping the tub as much as you like but the reality is fans will just have to suck it up meanwhile.
Not saying I disagree with any of that but did TS back LB in the transfer window?
We signed Schwartz (recommend by Thomas himself) and a relatively risk free punt on a kid. I doubt we are paying anything serious for Millar or Smith and Bowyer said he need a favour from Ridsdale to get Stockley in.
Our fans are comical! Slate bowyer for tinkering and the poor fella can’t even do right when he sticks with the same line up! Ironically we lose JFC through not tinkering....
There was not a lot wrong with that performance as a whole today. A dreadful piece of defending from Deji cost us! Is Bowyer really to blame for that? Really?
You forgot to mention their third goal where their playmaker was given freedom to bring the ball thirty yards into our 18yd. That was catastrophic defending. Our first goal defending was nowhere near as bad as that third. Also Purrington got roasted again for their second which allowed the cross to come in.
Who coaches the players? Everybody's fault but Bowyer
Any reason you believe that's a coaching issue? These are professional footballers playing in a near elite league, not sure they need to be coached to go to the ball there
I agree but when it repeatedly happens you would have to assume it's something that gets worked on. That's what any decent manager would do, identify the weaknesses and work on them. Of course I'm not saying we don't, I'm not a regular spy at Sparrows Lane but it doesn't look as though we're working on it enough that's for sure.
haven't read this thread yet but 2 things today that further convince me that bowyer is lacking in the football manager department:
1) Playing Darren Pratley 2) Leaving Stockley on his own up top once down to 10 men in a must win game
Having played the game, you really surprise me @do@DOUCHER
Pratley gives us a physical presence in the middle of the pitch. He covers yards, lots of them, he’s big and imposing, mixes it and also keeps possession. He gives 100% effort 100% of the time.
If you think at times we are a bit powder puff as a team, imagine us on a frozen, poor quality pitch against a direct physical team without him.
same reason i used to bang on about semedo - no room in any midfield for people who can't play - you can be a good tackler but still play - kinsella, cullen, parker - pratley kills the flow - i don't fault his commitment, work rate or attitude but he's not for me - yesterday should have seen smith or morgan in there, not pratley. We created chances but never hadd them under sustained pressure because pratley treats the ball like a hot potato.
same with chelsea in the week - their centre mid got rid of the ball the instant they got it - shinnie and millar were the only one's yesterday that were comfortable to hold the ball for more than 2 touches
Just thinking about Stockley and Chuks playing together up front - both good players, both scored yesterday but the downside is that it seems to have the psychological effect on the rest of our team to want to lump far too many long balls up to them. Millar was a notable exception. The long balls continued even after Chuks' red card, when Stockley was isolated up front. We've got tom be smarter than that.
I don't think coaching is the problem I believe it's more to do with motivation. Our players just don't seem to be motivated and have self belief, perhaps someone new coming in, with a few tweaks, would make the difference. I know it was mentioned earlier on this thread but look at Cardiff. Mick Mccarthy has the same squad but has turned results around. I'm not saying this is guaranteed and will go on indefinitely but it shows what a different perspective can bring.
haven't read this thread yet but 2 things today that further convince me that bowyer is lacking in the football manager department:
1) Playing Darren Pratley 2) Leaving Stockley on his own up top once down to 10 men in a must win game
Having played the game, you really surprise me @do@DOUCHER
Pratley gives us a physical presence in the middle of the pitch. He covers yards, lots of them, he’s big and imposing, mixes it and also keeps possession. He gives 100% effort 100% of the time.
If you think at times we are a bit powder puff as a team, imagine us on a frozen, poor quality pitch against a direct physical team without him.
same reason i used to bang on about semedo - no room in any midfield for people who can't play - you can be a good tackler but still play - kinsella, cullen, parker - pratley kills the flow - i don't fault his commitment, work rate or attitude but he's not for me - yesterday should have seen smith or morgan in there, not pratley. We created chances but never hadd them under sustained pressure because pratley treats the ball like a hot potato.
I agree, Pratley doesn't work in a flat 442, especially when Shinnie wasn't playing RM. He was great in the diamond. Actually I think that's our biggest problem, most of our CM's suit the diamond but with Maddison/Williams leaving and the signings of Millar and DJ, that's not really an option now.
I think Bowyer will see out the season. I don't think he will be the manager at the start of next season
That's how I see it. And it's wrong. Bring in a new manager now so he can assess the squad. Don't leave it to the summer when he doesn't know what the squad is like
agreed - another few weeks of this and i think LB will have managed his way out of a job and TS will be able to act knowing that he has the backing of the vast majority for such a decision
another few weeks ? .. if Bowyer survives for another few weeks after his total mismanagement of the team this season, he'll be here until April/May when we have failed to get anywhere near promotion .. we need a manager experienced in tactics and man management if we stand any chance of going up, and Bowyer is not that manager. However, I still feel that Sandy doesn't know enough or doesn't have the heart to sack him. Problem is another season in this division will be a disaster, no income, a player exodus and yet another term of rebuilding and hoping . Bowyer has lost it, he need to be replaced.
This 110% Lincs and Gravesend.
I was looking for the words to generalise about the predicament TS is in but you've covered it.
Yes Thomas is clearly business savvy but footy.... No way...hence his dilema.
I'm really concerned about not going up this season... There is literally nobody running away with it and with 18 games to go there is still time to change things.
TS would be derilict in his duty as CEO if he let's these performances carry on. I swear that after 50 years of watching Charlton that there are fundamental issues in the dressing room and with tactics.
LB love him or not is out of his depth big time and to be honest should be replaced asap.
We are in League One not the Champions League or even the Championship. Most of LB’s managerial career has been conducted at League One level.
In his first season in charge he took over Robinson’s failing side, and turned things around in time to make the play offs.
In his first full season he got us into the play offs again, winning promotion in the final at Wembley.
The next season saw him almost guide us to safety in the Championship, but for our top scorer going on strike, and Barnsley remarkably winning their final two games against Forest and Brentford with injury time goals. All of this against a backdrop of the mad Belgian and the ESI shysters, we went down by 1 point.
This season, we almost went bust in the early season, with stability only arriving at the end of September. Despite that, we’ve been in the play off places nearly all season, and now are only one point outside them, 6 points off top 2. There are still 54 points to play for.
Every season has required an almost total rebuild as we have lost talented players either because they were sold from under us or recalled by their home clubs during the season . Not to mention the injuries to key players.
So what does “out of his depth” actually mean?
It means that a proportion of the fanbase on here or anywhere else for that matter don't think he is a good manager.
I think its within this squad to manage to stay in the top six and a play off chance. There are sufficient number of games left to build team spirit to go on a late run which hopefully be enough momentum to hit the pay offs and promotion. Just need that piece of luck to turn up. Otherwise, it will be down to me getting the old pair of lucky underpants out of the cupboard!
Comments
Pratley gives us a physical presence in the middle of the pitch. He covers yards, lots of them, he’s big and imposing, mixes it and also keeps possession. He gives 100% effort 100% of the time.
Coaching isn't about learning to pass, shoot or tackle.
This 110% Lincs and Gravesend.
I was looking for the words to generalise about the predicament TS is in but you've covered it.
Yes Thomas is clearly business savvy but footy.... No way...hence his dilema.
I'm really concerned about not going up this season... There is literally nobody running away with it and with 18 games to go there is still time to change things.
TS would be derilict in his duty as CEO if he let's these performances carry on. I swear that after 50 years of watching Charlton that there are fundamental issues in the dressing room and with tactics.
LB love him or not is out of his depth big time and to be honest should be replaced asap.
We're 10th on a PPG basis though,
https://www.footballwebpages.co.uk/league-one/league-table/ppm
We are in League One not the Champions League or even the Championship. Most of LB’s managerial career has been conducted at League One level.
In his first season in charge he took over Robinson’s failing side, and turned things around in time to make the play offs.
The next season saw him almost guide us to safety in the Championship, but for our top scorer going on strike, and Barnsley remarkably winning their final two games against Forest and Brentford with injury time goals. All of this against a backdrop of the mad Belgian and the ESI shysters, we went down by 1 point.
This season, we almost went bust in the early season, with stability only arriving at the end of September. Despite that, we’ve been in the play off places nearly all season, and now are only one point outside them, 6 points off top 2. There are still 54 points to play for.
Every season has required an almost total rebuild as we have lost talented players either because they were sold from under us or recalled by their home clubs during the season . Not to mention the injuries to key players.
So what does “out of his depth” actually mean?
TS Derelict in his duty, eh? It’s his club and his money. What’s 50 years of support got to do with the price of eggs I’ve got 65 so what. And the dressing room unrest has been dispelled hasn’t it now certain personnel have left? If not where’s your evidence on that?
Tactics and team selections I grant you have been questionable at times and the slating of players in public not on but as I’ve said before and I’ll say it again ,TS has just backed LB in the transfer window and is unlikely to pull the trigger three games on. He’ll do it when he feels the time is ready. Keep thumping the tub as much as you like but the reality is fans will just have to suck it up meanwhile.
We signed Schwartz (recommend by Thomas himself) and a relatively risk free punt on a kid. I doubt we are paying anything serious for Millar or Smith and Bowyer said he need a favour from Ridsdale to get Stockley in.
I am not convinced he did or didn't to be honest.
Keep on trusting in Bowyer.
Any worth their salt certainly won't be coming down to little old Charlton Athletic in league one.
A manager with a growing reputation is Ryan Lowe at Plymouth.
Our players just don't seem to be motivated and have self belief, perhaps someone new coming in, with a few tweaks, would make the difference.
I know it was mentioned earlier on this thread but look at Cardiff. Mick Mccarthy has the same squad but has turned results around. I'm not saying this is guaranteed and will go on indefinitely but it shows what a different perspective can bring.