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Post Match Thread: Charlton v Burton Albion | Tues 23rd Feb 2021

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  • paulfox said:
    That is a bit simplistic. This isn't American football. My caveat in giving JJ a chance is that the players like him. That would be important in the coming weeks if we were to turn things round. Also, that he has different ideas to Bowyer, which he could very well do. 

    Bowyer was coaching the players under Robinson, but changed the tactics when he took over.
    Football should be simple, there is no guarantee jj does have different ideas and that they would be successful. I’m sure all the players liked les Reed when he took charge, how did that go?. For the record I do know the difference between American football and our football. You can disagree without being patronising.I have no problem with people having a differing opinion. in my opinion it’s a risk promoting a number two, particularly in a struggling side.
    You may be right. I have caveated that the players would be on board with JJ. It seems pointless giving him a caretaker role if that wasn't the case. I think it is wrong to blame JJ for what looks on the outside to be issues with the manager whilst accepting the possibility. That would be for Roddy and Sandgaard to assess.

    Happy to be corrected, but I think Dowie was quite popular with the players and Reed stabbing him in the back was a perception of some of them.
    I wasn’t meaning to seem like I was putting the defence all on jj’s shoulders, absolutely with sadness I’m saying the big issue and poor decisions are on bowyer. I’m just not convinced the timing would be right for jj. I don’t know for sure, none of us do but I feel like we need a bit of freshness from outside,experience,and someone that can balance keeping the players on side and having real belief in what they are doing. Paul cook??? 
  • At least that disloyal act of replacing Lampard is backfiring for Chelsea!
    Shhhhhhhsh. You can't go round saying things like that. You know that any new manager will be much worse than a club legend.
  • paulfox said:
    That is a bit simplistic. This isn't American football. My caveat in giving JJ a chance is that the players like him. That would be important in the coming weeks if we were to turn things round. Also, that he has different ideas to Bowyer, which he could very well do. 

    Bowyer was coaching the players under Robinson, but changed the tactics when he took over.
    Football should be simple, there is no guarantee jj does have different ideas and that they would be successful. I’m sure all the players liked les Reed when he took charge, how did that go?. For the record I do know the difference between American football and our football. You can disagree without being patronising.I have no problem with people having a differing opinion. in my opinion it’s a risk promoting a number two, particularly in a struggling side.
    You may be right. I have caveated that the players would be on board with JJ. It seems pointless giving him a caretaker role if that wasn't the case. I think it is wrong to blame JJ for what looks on the outside to be issues with the manager whilst accepting the possibility. That would be for Roddy and Sandgaard to assess.

    Happy to be corrected, but I think Dowie was quite popular with the players and Reed stabbing him in the back was a perception of some of them.
    Was Dowie not the architect of his own downfall by not telling the truth of his departure from palace? And spunking 11m on shit players(largely).
  • ButtleJR said:
    Lee might not be the man for the job. But the disrespect towards a man who showed great loyalty towards us when he could've easily walked is shocking. Short memory's. 
    Why would he have walked from.a 3 year contract paying him £250k pa  ?  Nothing to do with loyalty......just pure old needing an income. He could have jacked it in & gone back to his lakes, but he is on a decent wedge. Why give that up. Just wait to get sacked & get a payout. 
  • edited February 2021
    paulfox said:
    paulfox said:
    That is a bit simplistic. This isn't American football. My caveat in giving JJ a chance is that the players like him. That would be important in the coming weeks if we were to turn things round. Also, that he has different ideas to Bowyer, which he could very well do. 

    Bowyer was coaching the players under Robinson, but changed the tactics when he took over.
    Football should be simple, there is no guarantee jj does have different ideas and that they would be successful. I’m sure all the players liked les Reed when he took charge, how did that go?. For the record I do know the difference between American football and our football. You can disagree without being patronising.I have no problem with people having a differing opinion. in my opinion it’s a risk promoting a number two, particularly in a struggling side.
    You may be right. I have caveated that the players would be on board with JJ. It seems pointless giving him a caretaker role if that wasn't the case. I think it is wrong to blame JJ for what looks on the outside to be issues with the manager whilst accepting the possibility. That would be for Roddy and Sandgaard to assess.

    Happy to be corrected, but I think Dowie was quite popular with the players and Reed stabbing him in the back was a perception of some of them.
    Was Dowie not the architect of his own downfall by not telling the truth of his departure from palace? And spunking 11m on shit players(largely).
    I'm not saying he wasn't. Just that I believe he was popular with a lot of the players. Maybe some of those players were the shit ones :)
  • paulfox said:
    paulfox said:
    That is a bit simplistic. This isn't American football. My caveat in giving JJ a chance is that the players like him. That would be important in the coming weeks if we were to turn things round. Also, that he has different ideas to Bowyer, which he could very well do. 

    Bowyer was coaching the players under Robinson, but changed the tactics when he took over.
    Football should be simple, there is no guarantee jj does have different ideas and that they would be successful. I’m sure all the players liked les Reed when he took charge, how did that go?. For the record I do know the difference between American football and our football. You can disagree without being patronising.I have no problem with people having a differing opinion. in my opinion it’s a risk promoting a number two, particularly in a struggling side.
    You may be right. I have caveated that the players would be on board with JJ. It seems pointless giving him a caretaker role if that wasn't the case. I think it is wrong to blame JJ for what looks on the outside to be issues with the manager whilst accepting the possibility. That would be for Roddy and Sandgaard to assess.

    Happy to be corrected, but I think Dowie was quite popular with the players and Reed stabbing him in the back was a perception of some of them.
    I wasn’t meaning to seem like I was putting the defence all on jj’s shoulders, absolutely with sadness I’m saying the big issue and poor decisions are on bowyer. I’m just not convinced the timing would be right for jj. I don’t know for sure, none of us do but I feel like we need a bit of freshness from outside,experience,and someone that can balance keeping the players on side and having real belief in what they are doing. Paul cook??? 
    The only credible internal "caretaker" candidate would be Euell, someone without the baggage of the current terrible run
    Yes possibly, if we’ve given up on the season then fine. If we haven’t isn’t it a huge gamble? A lot of pressure on Euell I’d of thought if the original targets remain.
  • Surely the gamble is keeping Bowyer. Trying something else is having a punt. In much the same way giving Bowyer the job in the first lace was.

    We may not get into the play offs like Bowyer did with 10 games remaining and 5 points to make up, but there can't be a gamble when there is nothing to lose.
  • paulfox said:
    paulfox said:
    That is a bit simplistic. This isn't American football. My caveat in giving JJ a chance is that the players like him. That would be important in the coming weeks if we were to turn things round. Also, that he has different ideas to Bowyer, which he could very well do. 

    Bowyer was coaching the players under Robinson, but changed the tactics when he took over.
    Football should be simple, there is no guarantee jj does have different ideas and that they would be successful. I’m sure all the players liked les Reed when he took charge, how did that go?. For the record I do know the difference between American football and our football. You can disagree without being patronising.I have no problem with people having a differing opinion. in my opinion it’s a risk promoting a number two, particularly in a struggling side.
    You may be right. I have caveated that the players would be on board with JJ. It seems pointless giving him a caretaker role if that wasn't the case. I think it is wrong to blame JJ for what looks on the outside to be issues with the manager whilst accepting the possibility. That would be for Roddy and Sandgaard to assess.

    Happy to be corrected, but I think Dowie was quite popular with the players and Reed stabbing him in the back was a perception of some of them.
    Was Dowie not the architect of his own downfall by not telling the truth of his departure from palace? And spunking 11m on shit players(largely).
    I'm not saying he wasn't. Just that I believe he was popular with a lot of the players. Maybe some of those players were the shit ones :)
    Probably was the shit ones, as much as they liked him they didn’t get him results!!🤣
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  • paulfox said:
    paulfox said:
    paulfox said:
    That is a bit simplistic. This isn't American football. My caveat in giving JJ a chance is that the players like him. That would be important in the coming weeks if we were to turn things round. Also, that he has different ideas to Bowyer, which he could very well do. 

    Bowyer was coaching the players under Robinson, but changed the tactics when he took over.
    Football should be simple, there is no guarantee jj does have different ideas and that they would be successful. I’m sure all the players liked les Reed when he took charge, how did that go?. For the record I do know the difference between American football and our football. You can disagree without being patronising.I have no problem with people having a differing opinion. in my opinion it’s a risk promoting a number two, particularly in a struggling side.
    You may be right. I have caveated that the players would be on board with JJ. It seems pointless giving him a caretaker role if that wasn't the case. I think it is wrong to blame JJ for what looks on the outside to be issues with the manager whilst accepting the possibility. That would be for Roddy and Sandgaard to assess.

    Happy to be corrected, but I think Dowie was quite popular with the players and Reed stabbing him in the back was a perception of some of them.
    I wasn’t meaning to seem like I was putting the defence all on jj’s shoulders, absolutely with sadness I’m saying the big issue and poor decisions are on bowyer. I’m just not convinced the timing would be right for jj. I don’t know for sure, none of us do but I feel like we need a bit of freshness from outside,experience,and someone that can balance keeping the players on side and having real belief in what they are doing. Paul cook??? 
    The only credible internal "caretaker" candidate would be Euell, someone without the baggage of the current terrible run
    Yes possibly, if we’ve given up on the season then fine. If we haven’t isn’t it a huge gamble? A lot of pressure on Euell I’d of thought if the original targets remain.
    I was thinking more of a caretaker internal candidate to steady the ship while Roddy and TS looked around

    There would be no pressure on Euell. If he started winning games, he gets the credit, if he doesn't then it's not his fault...
  • I'm pleased to say I didn't watch any of the game. Instead I woke up shortly afterwards and made the mistake of checking the score, which really pissed me off. I checked the stats and the starting XI, which I was surprised at. Why a lone striker? Why Pratley and Watson?

    Needless to say I then read the posts on here and spent much too long thinking about this game when I should have been sleeping.

    I'm afraid it must be time for a change.
  • Dazzler21 said:
    I'm just sad I didn't get to smash the jar of custard again tbh 
    That’s why I got some powdered packets, better use by dates!!!, but when it’s time that Ambrosia is gonna really get it!!!, (or any other well known brand)!!!🤣
  • paulfox said:
    paulfox said:
    paulfox said:
    That is a bit simplistic. This isn't American football. My caveat in giving JJ a chance is that the players like him. That would be important in the coming weeks if we were to turn things round. Also, that he has different ideas to Bowyer, which he could very well do. 

    Bowyer was coaching the players under Robinson, but changed the tactics when he took over.
    Football should be simple, there is no guarantee jj does have different ideas and that they would be successful. I’m sure all the players liked les Reed when he took charge, how did that go?. For the record I do know the difference between American football and our football. You can disagree without being patronising.I have no problem with people having a differing opinion. in my opinion it’s a risk promoting a number two, particularly in a struggling side.
    You may be right. I have caveated that the players would be on board with JJ. It seems pointless giving him a caretaker role if that wasn't the case. I think it is wrong to blame JJ for what looks on the outside to be issues with the manager whilst accepting the possibility. That would be for Roddy and Sandgaard to assess.

    Happy to be corrected, but I think Dowie was quite popular with the players and Reed stabbing him in the back was a perception of some of them.
    I wasn’t meaning to seem like I was putting the defence all on jj’s shoulders, absolutely with sadness I’m saying the big issue and poor decisions are on bowyer. I’m just not convinced the timing would be right for jj. I don’t know for sure, none of us do but I feel like we need a bit of freshness from outside,experience,and someone that can balance keeping the players on side and having real belief in what they are doing. Paul cook??? 
    The only credible internal "caretaker" candidate would be Euell, someone without the baggage of the current terrible run
    Yes possibly, if we’ve given up on the season then fine. If we haven’t isn’t it a huge gamble? A lot of pressure on Euell I’d of thought if the original targets remain.
    I was thinking more of a caretaker internal candidate to steady the ship while Roddy and TS looked around

    There would be no pressure on Euell. If he started winning games, he gets the credit, if he doesn't then it's not his fault...
    Yes agreed if we are resigned to staying in league 1 for another season.
  • We played brilliantly tonight: quick and accurate and incisive. So did Burton Albion. It was a beautiful match: fluid and flowing, with subtle touches and clever moves.

    No time for our usual navel-gazing! We raised our game to Burton Albion. This, at least, might show a constituency on this forum that players like Morgan and Lapslie – home-grown! - are merely agricultural. We need intelligence, sharpness – and sublime touches, along with force and power.

    It was a thoroughly enjoyable game: we played well. I like Bowyer. He knows that our midfield should seize possession and advance in his image. Conor Gallagher was the man. Pratley is tough all right – in the third division. We are overloaded with strikers – five or six of them, bumbling and fumbling – yet Jayden Stockley is our best: temporarily, on loan.

    Schwartz is a turkey, hyped before, like Ajose. We shall keep going, pushing and pressing – Millar is mustard, educated in a superior academy: he skins opponents, gets forward and flashes the ball dangerously to the box. We remain close to the play-offs, with dozens of game to go.

    Lee Bowyer is still the man for us.  He stands for no nonsense. He’s a fighter – literally and metaphorically.




    Sorry, but I and many hundreds totally disagree with you. You are right to have your opinion but the past 20 matches don't bear out what you say. Fine.....don't sack him  Keep him in his position. But you aren't suddenly going to see a change in fortune or suddenly start winning games. Not a problem as we aren't going up nor are we  getting relegated. Just means sitting through another 16 turgid games. Have it your way.
  • I think we have to trust Sandgaard and Roddy in terms of how and who to replace Bowyer. But he hasn't been sacked yet.
    My problem is......does Sandgaard know the true feeling amongst fans ? He knows Bowyer is a legend & may fear a backlash if he sacks him. 
  • I think we have to trust Sandgaard and Roddy in terms of how and who to replace Bowyer. But he hasn't been sacked yet.
    My problem is......does Sandgaard know the true feeling amongst fans ? He knows Bowyer is a legend & may fear a backlash if he sacks him. 
    I imagine they'll be combing through social media and sites like this one...
  • msomerton said:
    A new manager could do little better with that set of players,  let's be honest about the failings of the players as well.
    Disagree. I'll have a little bet with you that you will see a big improvement under any new manager.
    Totally agree. Problem is its far too late now to have any effect on this season, but at least a new manager will get a good look at the players & some might bust a gut to get a new deal in the summer.

    Notice Nigel Pearson got a win in his first game. 5 straight defeats before then for Bristol City. 

    But nah.......don't want him. Let's stick to Charlton old boys again. Euell....Jackson.....😴😴😴😴
    Robinson was sacked end of March, we were 9th and 5 points away from play offs.
    Take a look at the table & the number of games teams have played. The way it is looking I doubt there will be much change to the top 6 for the rest of the season. Donny are on a bit of a slide do they could easily  fall out if it - but they currently have 3 games on hand. Maybe Oxford will sneak in there but we certainly wont. 
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  • msomerton said:
    A new manager could do little better with that set of players,  let's be honest about the failings of the players as well.
    Disagree. I'll have a little bet with you that you will see a big improvement under any new manager.
    Totally agree. Problem is its far too late now to have any effect on this season, but at least a new manager will get a good look at the players & some might bust a gut to get a new deal in the summer.

    Notice Nigel Pearson got a win in his first game. 5 straight defeats before then for Bristol City. 

    But nah.......don't want him. Let's stick to Charlton old boys again. Euell....Jackson.....😴😴😴😴
    Robinson was sacked end of March, we were 9th and 5 points away from play offs.
    Take a look at the table & the number of games teams have played. The way it is looking I doubt there will be much change to the top 6 for the rest of the season. Donny are on a bit of a slide do they could easily  fall out if it - but they currently have 3 games on hand. Maybe Oxford will sneak in there but we certainly wont. 
    Yes there's a developing gap between the top 6 and really the next 10 or 11 in mid table mediocrity, then a gap to the bottom 7

    Having played the same number of games we're now
    1 point above Crewe
    2 above Plymouth 
    3 above MKD
    4 above Gillingham
    While Blackpool 4 points behind us have 4 games in hand
  • One positive today. Stockley. When was the last time a striker on loan ever scored any goals for us. Certainly not 4 in a month. Shame he won't be here next season. 
    Yaya Sanogo scored a hatrick 
  • Good post Blucher and a good point about their first chance when the guy drifted in unmarked. 
  • Blucher said:
    Another game, another new system, with three central defenders, wing backs, Miller and DJ wide and Stockley the sole central striker. Presumably we had all of Monday morning’s training session to try and perfect this new formation. In terms of personnel, the three defensive changes seemed perfectly reasonable; the inclusion of Watson and the exclusion of Aneke much less so, especially given the latter’s suspension last weekend.

    We started the game very well and could easily have been 2-0 up inside the first 20 minutes. That was, however, as good as it got. A clever short corner routine which their guy squandered was a warning shot but dozy and lackadaisical defending from a throw on allowed their winger an age to put over a looping cross for their lump of a centre forward to outmuscle our defenders and head the equaliser. Burton never really looked back from that point and - urged on from the touchline by an animated JFH - were a yard sharper and more cohesive than us for the remainder of the game. They looked exactly what they were - a team who, despite their limitations, had a plan and a belief (realistic, as it turned out) that we were there for the taking.
    We were exceptionally poor in the second half and had only one meaningful effort on goal, with Purrington drawing a good save from their goalie. In addition to their winning goal, Burton had 3 or 4 other decent efforts and, in the end, the 2-1 scoreline almost flattered us. At no stage whatsoever did we  look like getting back on terms and the players’ heads seemed to go down once we fell behind. There appeared to be no belief in the side that we could get anything from the game and Bowyer’s further tinkering in terms of formations and substitutions failed to bear fruit; on the contrary, they only added to the general sense of desperation, chaos and gloom.
    The players looked mentally shot and our season is rapidly falling apart. Our results since early November - 22 points from 20 games - is very close to relegation form and, given the direction of travel, I fear there is a very realistic chance of the side equalling our worst post-War position of 14th in the 3rd tier in 1973/74. Sadly, that outcome is far more likely than a top 6 finish, with play-offs aspirations now a pipe dream.
    Leaving sentiment aside, the question now for Thomas Sandgaard is simply this: is Lee Bowyer the man to turn this around and build a side who can take us back to the Championship by the end of next season ? I am afraid that is looking increasingly unlikely, with Lee appearing to be bereft of ideas and unable to get the best out of the players at his disposal.
    In the absence of any discernible improvement over the next few games, the remaining dozen or so fixtures will become energy sapping and depressing dead rubbers. In that event, there must be a good chance that Thomas will want to make a change and give the new man a chance to assess the squad in order to decide (1) which of the current group should be retained and (2) which players should be recruited as part of the inevitable rebuilding process. It would also be useful to determine what style of play we want to try and adopt going forward, as the current team lacks any kind of identity.
    Lee Bowyer has given us some great memories over the last three years, mostly in exceptionally difficult circumstances, and the situation in which he now finds himself greatly saddens me. I hope I am wrong and that he can revive the team’s fortunes but I believe his days are numbered.

    What is really worrying is that recently, once we go a goal behind we just don't look like equalizing. As you say, we started well & had the best of the first 20 mins, but in the 2nd half we did hardly anything apart from that one chance from Purrington. In fact, the more forwards we put on the worse it became. That to me is the reason why Bowyer has to go. There is little to no fight once we are behind. We have now even done the reverse Golfie & losing once we go 1-0 up. Burton done to us something we haven't done in 39 league games. Time to go (although I've been saying that since xmas)
  • robroy said:
    Minto's reaction there would told me Bowyer knows his off, Hes facial expression said it all
    Yes agreed. I must say some of those players in their should hang their heads in shame, disgrace from some of them. 

    True. But maybe they are fed up with seeing colleagues that they like humiliated, slagged off and criticised. In those circumstances don't expect them to burst a gut.

    Like the two signings from Swindon, he's criticised them both & they've hardly played. Criticise in private if you have to but not in the media.
    And therein lies a lot of the problems. Whether players get on with their fellow players or not they won’t take it lightly when they get criticised constantly in public like Bogle, Williams, Maddison, Morgan, DJ etc etc all have been. Some of the things Bowyer has said should have been kept behind closed doors. 
  • Anyway back to the actual game.

    Early days yet but I have to say my first impressions of Jaiyesimi are not great. He scarcely beat a man, his passing was wayward and I'm convinced Burton's first goal was down to him switching off and letting their player run past him and get a cross in. If we've got rid of Williams for him, I don't see we have come out of this stronger.

    As I say early days and he needs to play in his proper position - not in some strange deep lying winger role miles behind a loan striker -  and in a team full of more confidence before we can properly pass judgment but I hope there is a lot more to his game than he showed tonight.      

    On DJ. Twice against us this season he caused us a lot of problems and I was very happy when signed. Since he signed for us he’s gone backwards. You have to ask yourself why? 
  • Leaburn Forever said (on the player marks thread):
    We play the team bottom of the league and Bowyer starts with one up front.  What a joke!

    I don't care if there was a deflection or not, Amos had plenty of time to see the ball coming, he should have saved that. 

    Did Schwartz touch the ball?

    I love Lee Bowyer, but I think his formation and tactics are below par.

    I don't think pubically saying the team are doing better than expected helps anyone's confidence. 

    Perhaps it time for some fresh ideas from a new manager 
  • RonnieMoore said (on the player marks thread):
    We play the team bottom of the league and Bowyer starts with one up front.  What a joke!

    I don't care if there was a deflection or not, Amos had plenty of time to see the ball coming, he should have saved that. 

    Did Schwartz touch the ball?

    I love Lee Bowyer, but I think his formation and tactics are below par.

    I don't think pubically saying the team are doing better than expected helps anyone's confidence. 

    Perhaps it time for some fresh ideas from a new manager
    played 3 up front .... we played 3-4-3
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