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Post Match Thread: Charlton v Burton Albion | Tues 23rd Feb 2021

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Comments

  • Leaburn Forever said (on the player marks thread):
    We play the team bottom of the league and Bowyer starts with one up front.  What a joke!

    I don't care if there was a deflection or not, Amos had plenty of time to see the ball coming, he should have saved that. 

    Did Schwartz touch the ball?

    I love Lee Bowyer, but I think his formation and tactics are below par.

    I don't think pubically saying the team are doing better than expected helps anyone's confidence. 

    Perhaps it time for some fresh ideas from a new manager
    played 3 up front .... we played 3-4-3
    I wouldn't call that 3 up front. It was Stockley up front and two inaffective wingers being played in the wrong position.

    Aneke, Stockley and Schwartz is three up front
  • Who can people genuinely see as a replacement we are languishing in mid table with no players to come in - and playoffs would already be a big stretch 

  • Even in the promotion winning season under Bowyer from March onwards we knew what the team would roughly look like....

    Philips

    Solly/Djiksteel - Bauer - Pearce/Sarr - Purrington

    Bielik - Cullen - Pratley - Aribo

    Taylor - Grant/Vetokele/

  • Chunes said:
    First half was one of the best this season. Hit the bar three times and Stockley should've scored from point-blank. I liked the formation and the midfield looked more fluid without Pratley slowing play down. It was 1-2 touch football. Even Watson (who is one of my least favourite Charlton players ever) played passes to break the lines. 

    But it never amounts to much, does it? As soon as Burton scored there was a dip in confidence and these bottle job players lost their bottle. A poster called it right earlier, without the fans in the stadium, they are getting away with murder. 

    Why the chopping and changing? I think with previous squads the team and the shape really picked itself: Cullen, Bielik, Aribo, Taylor, Grant, Bauer, etc. Who would you change? What positions would you swap? 

    With this squad it really doesn't pick itself. Barring 1 or 2 players, nobody deserves to have their name on the teamsheet down. Nobody has stepped up. Probably because many of them are off next year. Or because we have strength in depth, but not in quality.

    So the teams change and the formations change, LB searching for something that clicks, but nothing does.

    In the post-match interview and for this umpteenth time this season he complained about a lack of final ball, not taking care of the pass in a good position. But these are league one players, and they will make that mistake 3/4 times - they're not Lee Bowyers.

    This league is a grind! The pitches are bobbly, the players are wobbly. It doesn't pay to try and be pretty, you just have to be effective. We are neither and this season is an absolute wash. 
    Pretty much what I've been saying all season. I'm pro Bowyer but he looks to me like he could jack it in. I'd love him to come out and say I know we aren't good enough this year but we've got a plan in place for next year etc but he won't obviously because there would be mutiny within the players. 

  • When he first started as a manager he used to talk about togetherness that was very important. I think he works very well as a manager when the chips are down and he creates the kind of siege mentality because at the time the odds were against us going up and in both seasons at least got us into the play-offs from very did advantageous positions. He was helped along by some good talented players which he improved and that was another thing he used to talk about. Now he has many things in his favour and it is difficult to create a sense of togetherness when people may be competing for positions. In any case he doesn’t talk about these things anymore and I think in that sense his management style has changed and is not as effective at getting that winning mentality. For whatever reason things have changed. His ability to set up a decent defence has been found wanting and because of this we are where we are. The fact that we start to panic so easily is also indicative of a lack of togetherness
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  • redbuttle said:
    I actually have a feeling that Lee Bowyer doesn't have final say on team selection or tactics. Obviously I may be wrong but I believe that someone is interfering and that's what is causing the situation in the dressing room and behind the scenes and ultimately on the pitch.
    Nonsense 
  • redbuttle said:
    I actually have a feeling that Lee Bowyer doesn't have final say on team selection or tactics. Obviously I may be wrong but I believe that someone is interfering and that's what is causing the situation in the dressing room and behind the scenes and ultimately on the pitch.
    Now now let's not be silly
  • redbuttle said:
    I actually have a feeling that Lee Bowyer doesn't have final say on team selection or tactics. Obviously I may be wrong but I believe that someone is interfering and that's what is causing the situation in the dressing room and behind the scenes and ultimately on the pitch.
    No chance.
    Just asking. How do you know that?
  • redbuttle said:
    I actually have a feeling that Lee Bowyer doesn't have final say on team selection or tactics. Obviously I may be wrong but I believe that someone is interfering and that's what is causing the situation in the dressing room and behind the scenes and ultimately on the pitch.
    Nonsense 
    What makes you do sure?
  • redbuttle said:
    redbuttle said:
    I actually have a feeling that Lee Bowyer doesn't have final say on team selection or tactics. Obviously I may be wrong but I believe that someone is interfering and that's what is causing the situation in the dressing room and behind the scenes and ultimately on the pitch.
    Nonsense 
    What makes you do sure?
    pretty sure he wouldn't accept it
  • Crafty57 said:
    It was a good bright start, but then we’ve seen this so many times before, and then you saw players get into their mindset again. They lack confidence in their ability, scared to do what they are good at. The opposition grow in confidence, And so the hesitation comes in, mistakes are made, there’s no natural get out because the players don’t know where their team mates are meant to be, they start making bad decisions, which lead to miscommunication and mistakes, no ability to spot the clear and present danger, no foresight to make a telling pass, and consequently, we lose control, and lose the game.
    Why does this happen so regularly, I do think it’s down to LBs behaviour. The calling out of players publicly, leaving them out of the side, allowing them back to prove a point. Invariably most do, but then they are dropped again. That does not breed confidence in that player or the players around who witness it. It breeds hesitation and error. The old stalwarts don’t get so affected so they stick to their way of playing, Pratley, Gunter, Watson. But the newer/younger players can’t settle, play with confidence, play regularly and consequently go backwards. 
    Then there is the constant formation and personnel changes, square pegs in round holes, nothing is a natural outlet now, players don’t naturally know who is there, or where they are, so instinctive passing is absent.
    And it’s a collective thing which has knock on effects. Amos comes out and gets chipped to concede a goal, probably got grief over it and rightly so, but sees what happens to other players, and is now reticent to come out with any purpose to claim a ball. Which then puts the central defence in a quandary, do they clear or wait for Amos to claim, they are not sure. So there’s a mistake waiting to happen.
    This mindset has permeated the whole squad. Now the question is, is LB totally responsible, or is JJ just as culpable as well. If it’s the latter, then Thomas has to clear both out, it’s gone on too long to be repaired. If it’s just LB then give Jacko til the end of the season.
    Bottom line players play with confidence, knowing whose around them, their capabilities, and their role in the team, and the tactics the team are to play, it comes naturally.Then players know what they want to do with the ball, and when instinctive decisions are made they get you out of a tight spot or create and opportunity. 
    Every team in this league plays with a plan, with a reasonably settled side, the only difference is the quality in how they do it. We have the quality individually, but don’t have the cohesion, brought through stability, to be a team.
    It seems LB coped with the instability off the pitch, but now creates it on the pitch. And once that relationship with the players has broken down, it’s irreparable. 
    It’s a crying shame, as no one wanted Bowyer to succeed more than me, but it’s just too painful to enjoy anymore.
     

    Brilliant post. 
  • redbuttle said:
    redbuttle said:
    I actually have a feeling that Lee Bowyer doesn't have final say on team selection or tactics. Obviously I may be wrong but I believe that someone is interfering and that's what is causing the situation in the dressing room and behind the scenes and ultimately on the pitch.
    No chance.
    Just asking. How do you know that?
    Given the list of things and people who he has blamed for things going wrong so far, for him to have not even implied in any way of interference behind the scenes says it's probably bollocks.
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  • My fear is even if LB is given the time, and builds a completely new team with truly outstanding talents he will achieve exactly the same results again...
    You know what the definition of insanity is don’t you?
  • aliwibble said:
    Leaburn Forever said (on the player marks thread):
    We play the team bottom of the league and Bowyer starts with one up front.  What a joke!

    I don't care if there was a deflection or not, Amos had plenty of time to see the ball coming, he should have saved that. 

    Did Schwartz touch the ball?

    I love Lee Bowyer, but I think his formation and tactics are below par.

    I don't think pubically saying the team are doing better than expected helps anyone's confidence. 

    Perhaps it time for some fresh ideas from a new manager
    played 3 up front .... we played 3-4-3
    I wouldn't call that 3 up front. It was Stockley up front and two inaffective wingers being played in the wrong position.

    Aneke, Stockley and Schwartz is three up front
    That’s the other thing that wrangles.  We changed formation yet again during the game.  As you point out Ali, we went 3 up top.  I’ve lost count of the amount of times we’ve changed not only our starting line up for games, but the shape and system during a game.  Imagine running a company where week to week you’ll get people in marketing to have a week in manufacturing, or get HR to have a go in IT.  That’s pretty much what we’re seeing every week at the moment 
  • redbuttle said:
    I actually have a feeling that Lee Bowyer doesn't have final say on team selection or tactics. Obviously I may be wrong but I believe that someone is interfering and that's what is causing the situation in the dressing room and behind the scenes and ultimately on the pitch.
     Not sure about that but certainly think there was something in the talk of being forced to play Maatsan.
  • edited February 2021

    Do those that say there is no such thing as luck believe Danny Rowe took a look up, spotted Amos just far enough off his line to think "I will cannon this ball off Watson's back at the exact right angle for it to nestle in that top right hand corner"? If you think that is what he did, why is such a footballing genius playing in League1?

    No he shouldn't have been given the room to shoot, I know, and I am not saying that there was not a load of terrible play from the Addicks, neither am I saying that every goal we let in is a result of bad fortune, but that goal was lucky. And the perfectly good goal chalked off for offside (the bloke playing them on was the one with his hand up before the ball even reached the penalty area - how did he even know who was going to receive the ball at that point?) how is that the fault of Bowyer?   

    All that said, sometimes it's better to be a lucky manager than a good one. At the moment, though it pains me to say it, Bow is neither.       
  • Still no post about the score on the official fb page..
  • Algarve, where is the desire to close him down though, where was the desire to track the fella about to cross for the first, you can see DJ look around and see a player run off him and Mathews doing the same. To defend you have have desire to get between the player and the ball, Mathews is a very good full back but I question his desire, you can't tell me that the majority of these players see a future at Charlton and thats the problem.
  • redbuttle said:
    redbuttle said:
    I actually have a feeling that Lee Bowyer doesn't have final say on team selection or tactics. Obviously I may be wrong but I believe that someone is interfering and that's what is causing the situation in the dressing room and behind the scenes and ultimately on the pitch.
    Nonsense 
    What makes you do sure?
    pretty sure he wouldn't accept it
    Perhaps he hasn't accepted it. 
  • Scoham said:
    It had been good to see us stick with 4-4-2 in most games recently but for whatever reason Bowyer tried another formation last night. When does switching formation constantly ever work? It’s the sort of thing we saw from Reed and Fraeye as they were desperately trying to stumble across something that works. As others have said this feels like the end for Bowyer.

    It was an unusual set up for us but it could work, however you need the right players and they need time to understand it. That won’t happen when you play it for the first time part way through a season with presumably little done on it in training. I believe Peterborough play something similar with Clarke-Harris as the main striker supported by Dembele and Szmodics ahead of a back 3/5 and a couple of CMs. Sheff Utd did so well under Wilder playing 5-3-2/3-5-2, using “overlapping centre backs”, a role Oshilaja appeared to be playing.

    The players must know there will be another summer rebuild and many of them won’t be here next season. Even if we’re somehow promoted that doesn’t really change. We stated the season well, Bowyer couldn’t get out of the initial part of the bad run and now it looks clear that neither Bowyer or the players really believe they can achieve anything this season.

    If Bowyer turns things around it’s going to be because TS lets him rebuild in the summer. The way it’s going that’s look less likely with almost every game we play. To have a chance of promotion this season we need a new manager to give this squad a fresh start and feel they have something to play for.

    I really wanted to see Bowyer get the chance to properly rebuild under TS but it also feels wrong to accept it’s fine to let this season drift away. What TS decides is going to come down to whether he has faith in Bowyer for the longer term and how much importance he puts on finishing this season well. We know he’s expecting to make the playoffs but not necessarily win them. That’s moved from an expectation under Bowyer to something that looks unrealistically optimistic.

    Where do we go from here? It’s a big decision for TS that he has surely been considering for a while.
    Quite a lot off teams have started playing it now, 3-4-2-1. With 2 attacking midfielders. Barnsley seem to be having success with it and so do Chelsea 
  • thenewbie said:
    redbuttle said:
    redbuttle said:
    I actually have a feeling that Lee Bowyer doesn't have final say on team selection or tactics. Obviously I may be wrong but I believe that someone is interfering and that's what is causing the situation in the dressing room and behind the scenes and ultimately on the pitch.
    No chance.
    Just asking. How do you know that?
    Given the list of things and people who he has blamed for things going wrong so far, for him to have not even implied in any way of interference behind the scenes says it's probably bollocks.
    Did he ever say anything about the previous owners in interviews?
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