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Post Match Thread: Charlton v Burton Albion | Tues 23rd Feb 2021

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  • We signed quite a few players who sounded decent but they're nearly all underperforming - something is obviously seriously wrong. Bowyer's management isn't working and TS has to decide whether he wants to make the decision now or at the end of the season.

    21 points from 19 games is really quite shocking especially with the squad we have. I would have expected the team to make the playoffs. Based on recent form we're one of the worst sides in the decision and we don't seem to be improving.

    Does anyone seriously think Lee can turn things around? You can blame players as much as you like but you have to face facts that under his management so many players don't seem to be performing.


  • At this stage I think most of us would be hard pressed to think of agreed starting line up based on the chopping and changing.  

    I think 

    Amos

    Matthews/Gunter Famewo Inniss (when both fit) Purrington

    Jayesimi Shinnie ???? Millar

    Stockley Aneke

    I can’t decide who over Matthews or Gunter and I’ve left the other central mid slot open because they’re all as poor as one another imo 
  • Hasn’t take opposition very long to double up on Millar and to crowd out Stockley when the balls is in the air. 
  • Morgan can unlock a defence with his vision and loves to run with the ball but Bows wants him as break up play midfielder. 
    Shinnie is good with space and time but his effort and being a second late to react to situations is a big worry for me. 
    We don't have a CM who wants to run with the ball through the middle, the ball is just like a hot potato. 
    Setting up with two CDMs who just want to pass the ball backwards or sideways 5yds. Yes their job is to put pressure on attacking players from opposition but in Frank they don't, they back off and give them space. 
    I just don't see why he digs Morgan out when all the other CMs do the exact same traits if not worse IMO. 

    Our whole game is set up to give the ball to Millar, it's so easy to read for other teams.


  • Can I be the first to say that you will see a marked improvement in performance & therefore results as soon as a new manager comes in. By a new manager I mean someone from outside, not someone already part of the current set up. 
  • From having made it all so simple for the players away to Rochdale, LB seemed to make it hard for the players with the formation last night. Yes, we could've have been almost out of sight in the first 20 mins but off the ball we looked a mess and it gave Burton a chance.

    The formation seemed to nullify Millar as much as the Burton defence did and sadly, when Millar has a poor game, then so does the whole team. 

    LB would do well to look at Brian Clough. He kept it SO simple for his players. He demanded that midfielders won the ball and gave it to the wingers, who crossed it into the forwards. A few weeks ago, there wasn't much to aim at in the box but now we have Stockley....so get it wide and get it in to him!!!! 
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  • Can I be the first to say that you will see a marked improvement in performance & therefore results as soon as a new manager comes in. By a new manager I mean someone from outside, not someone already part of the current set up. 
    I am not disagreeing with you, but interested to hear your thoughts on who the new manager should be ?

    A suite of candidates is fine, not just one person

    Personally, I am struggling to think of anyone who is available, but also the right fit / good manager
  • Bailey said:
    Algarve, where is the desire to close him down though, where was the desire to track the fella about to cross for the first, you can see DJ look around and see a player run off him and Mathews doing the same. To defend you have have desire to get between the player and the ball, Mathews is a very good full back but I question his desire, you can't tell me that the majority of these players see a future at Charlton and thats the problem.
    I don't disagree with that Bailey, I am making just the one point about the luck involved in the final shot, it was 100% fluke that that ball went in. It was 100% bad luck that the linesman made the wrong call on the offside. 

    I am sure that there are times in the game where we don't close down and get away with it, I know there are times the opposition don't close down and get away with it too.      
  • I think we should here from GR or TS re Bowyers future ASAP
  • That was crap. I'm having a crap time with work and  I can empathise with Bowyer, nothing is going right for him. We have no luck - woodwork, officials, injuries, but there comes a point when the excuses no longer cut it. It looks like Lee's at that point. The last couple of interviews on VP have felt uncomfortable, like I've been intruding on some private grief. It's always sad when a relationship comes to an end, even if it was overdue. 

    The only players I'd like us to keep from last night were Stockley and Millar. I've some affection for Pratley, Deji, Purrington, Chuks; but they're now like those friends who you lose when you split up with someone and they drift away, maybe they were never your friends anyway.  

  • edited February 2021
    Also has this side ever played a through ball between the CBs? We never seem to be able to get behind a team, midfielders constantly look afraid to make a brave pass but those passes are the ones that result in goals most of the time.

    It happened last night a couple times I noticed but in previous games Shwartz has created space between the CBs with his movement, made the run between them - It's begging for a through ball to set him up for a 1-on-1 nearly - a midfielder will look at Shwartz' run, then turn away and pass sideways. So frustrating
  • I think there was maybe some negative comments made last night in the heat of the moment, that might need a rethink, and maybe some positive that some might want to rehash, i generally am a glass half full usually regarding most things, but must say, there must be a crack in my glass because my resolve is starting to wane and the glass is emptying quickly.
    Having watched the entire game and Lee's aftermatch interview, he kept on saying "it is my responsibility", well Lee, yes it is, but the players also need to step up and take their fair share of the shite being thrown around for the dross being served up, it is getting beyond believable, but is their a belief within the squad that we will ever win a run of games, it seems that if so, it quickly goes as soon  as we go a goal down, and that is the players not Bowyer, i appreciate team selection etc is an important factor, but not all.
    Anyway, i feel a change is gonna happen, and will be sad to see Lee go on a low point after all his endurance with our past ownership fiasco.
  • Football has always shown that you don’t need the best players and the best manager to achieve success.

    I think that what has happened is that Charlton have hit the ‘Perfect Storm’

    Bowyer has lost his “mojo” and doesn’t know how to arrest the situation.

    I also think that the mix of players is not right.

    There are too many players in their late 20’s and 30’s who are playing for one last pay day. Not really bringing anything to the party but experience, and that experience is sadly not working.

    The youngsters and flair players are being chopped and changed. Consequently they are scared to express themselves, and are not playing to their strengths. 

    The result is that we appear leadership both on and off the pitch.

    I think the playing staff including the manager needs a complete overhaul and we need to start afresh, 


  • Terrible. 
    I think TS and Jed Roddy have a busy couple of months ahead getting a replacement. 
    Put in JJ or Jason in as caretaker and take our time getting the right man . 
    Thomas must wonder what he’s let himself in for ! 
    I think Roddy may be part of the problem, just a couple of things I've heard. However, after the performances we've witnessed over the past few weeks, things have to change. So bloody depressing as I believe we have some quality players in the squad (with one or two exceptions) really don't see what Schwartz brings to the party; seems very static with little or no physical presence and the play goes round him -or worse-nowhere near him. Mid-table for me. Proper close season with new players - especially as no wage cap nonsense and go again. Fans back will make a lot of difference too.
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  • I'd like JJ to be given a chance till the end of the season and if ever there was somebody who deserved loyalty it is him. This is a good opportunity as he can't make things worse.
    Genuinely hope it’s not. I can’t fault JJ, he’s a legend but we need to be thinking a lot bigger and bolder than a completely inexperienced man no matter how much loved. If TS wasn’t pulling our chain with that European football ambition then the road to that must start today. I don’t think JJ is that person. 
  • It's a lack of collective bottle as much as anything. We let a goal in and the heads go down and so does the will to take the upper-hand. 
  • addick19 said:
    Terrible. 
    I think TS and Jed Roddy have a busy couple of months ahead getting a replacement. 
    Put in JJ or Jason in as caretaker and take our time getting the right man . 
    Thomas must wonder what he’s let himself in for ! 
    I think Roddy may be part of the problem, just a couple of things I've heard. However, after the performances we've witnessed over the past few weeks, things have to change. So bloody depressing as I believe we have some quality players in the squad (with one or two exceptions) really don't see what Schwartz brings to the party; seems very static with little or no physical presence and the play goes round him -or worse-nowhere near him. Mid-table for me. Proper close season with new players - especially as no wage cap nonsense and go again. Fans back will make a lot of difference too.
    Can you say what you've heard @addick19 ?
  • Terrible. 
    I think TS and Jed Roddy have a busy couple of months ahead getting a replacement. 
    Put in JJ or Jason in as caretaker and take our time getting the right man . 
    Thomas must wonder what he’s let himself in for ! 
    JJ is our defensive coach isn't he ? Hearing Steve Brown speak a lot of sense recently maybe he should be taken on board.
    I agree with you in principle, but some times people are great talkers, and talk a good game,  Gary Neville was much lauded when he came on the sky commentary scene, but was a part of the England debacle under Roy Hodgson and hasn’t been a success in management, who knows you might be right about Steve Brown, but I was wondering if Thomas will go for a foreign manager in the summer a la Brentford / Norwich, who knows?
    Oh I quite agree, a good pundit like a good player doesn't necessarily make a good manager. But like when LB came in to "pass on knowledge" to our then midfielders it can't do any harm for Browny to do similar, haha clutching at straws maybe but we can't be any worse can we ? Foreign manager ? Who knows indeed but I fully expect Ged Ruddy has been doing a bit of digging on the management situation.
  • edited February 2021
    Maybe Bowyer would be well served, if he isn't sacked, giving players a bit more say on tactics and how we set up. Maybe blaming him is the easy way out for them. He may see that as a sign of weakness but for me it is man management. It couldn't make things any worse!
  •  It's hard to see the actual problem - and sadly, Lee doesn't seem to have a solution either. No disrespect to Burton, but when you go one up at home to the bottom club in the first ten minutes, it should set you up to play some football, and get a comfy win margin. The inverse happened, and in the last ten minutes, it felt more as if Burton were going for a third goal to wrap it up, and any chance of even an equaliser had gone for us. A complete opposite of the nervy end of match scenarios we have to endure when we are winning.

    I genuinely don't see an easy solution. Bowyer still seems to be tinkering - Millar on the right being a perpetual oddity. I wasn't happy that Chuks started on the bench last night, but at 1-0 up it seemed that Bowyer knew better, and we even had the prospect of a fresh attacker to bring on in the second half. But the problems seem to be a lack of belief, and interminable small details - the endless worldies we concede suggest we allow the other teams too much space, the lack of decent service to the strikers. Every time I read on a Charlton forum that so and so should never start another game, you can gaurantee everyone will be clamouring for the same player to start two weeks later, so for all the fans criticism, there isn't any easy solution on the (online) terraces either.

    However, man management by Bowyer is a definate problem. Hanging players out to dry in public seems to have finally gone away, but it probably caused some serious anger back stage, and both Madisson and Williams having been mucked about in starting line ups, both got moved out when they potentially had a lot to offer. Scwarz must be wondering why he bothered coming to England - if you play a striker, you need to give him quality service, and it simply hasn't happened this year. The defence isn't really a defence,just a bunch of mates who have a kick about in front of the keeper. But finally, the spirit of the Bowyer team that took us up has evaporated. i remember being at a couple of games when everyone was singing the Allez Allez song and we were united as a club despite the ownership. Bowyer and Jacko got that to happen. Could they reignite it now? Sorry, but it just feels like a pipe dream to be honest, and it's gutting to see how quickly everything has disintegrated, just when the management team have a bit of cash and an owner who backs them, But the one thing this team always offers is that once they go behind, they don't have the fight in them to turn the match on it's head, and in the last two games, they just withered. If Bowyer is on his way out, it would be a good idea to bring in someone decent and give them time to set us up for next season - this season is just about finished for us.
     I agree. It smacks of a team bereft of any confidence at all. We look tired and lacklustre for huge parts of games.
    A kind of relief filtrates itself over the side when we manage to go a goal up almost as if it's been building up for days and days and when it happens there's nothing left in the tank...and yes,I mean even in the first 10 minutes of games.
    The players don't know where they stand with Bowyer anymore. You can play a blinder one match. Put a single foot wrong in the next and he's hanging you out to dry.
    He holds grudges as well. Deep down he really isn't sure about the likes of Purrington,Deji,Morgan and previously Williams and it shows itself quite clearly for us in the public gaze to see. God only knows what it's like in the dressing room?
     It's not condusive of a happy camp, and in turn a successful side.
  • Alongside Curbs in his early manager years would be seen Les Reed - they often seemed in deep conversation. Reed was a distinguished youth coach who imparted technical knowledge. In all walks of life consultation/live supervision is recognised as being necessary 
    Lennie Lawrence has been fulfilling such a role for several years 
    LB often looks isolated as the game disintegrates before his eyes. This might be his preference. Time has come for him to be persuaded to find a modern day Reed or Lawrence 






  • Thoroughly deserved that Stockley is in the team, great hard working performance, shame the
    rest of the team failed to turn up.
    Also note that Hasselbaink is shown as Manager, just wondered how often the manager of our
    opposition each week have found themselves in a similar position, with an assist from us
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