I’m still bowyer in - think a lot of you have very short memories.
Love the club as much as any but I genuinely just wrote this season off Ipswich Sunderland are as big or bigger than us and struggling. We’ve got a club to support left and that does me.
If 22 points from 21 games with this squad in L1 playing some awful clueless football doesn't deserve the sack then I'm not sure what does? I've seen enough.
Half of the players at least are lazy c***s that don’t really care - bring a new manager in and we’ll see the same shit a major clear out in the summer needs to happen, they’ve got no discipline and no balls.
Another major clear out so Bowyer and fans can blame having a whole new squad as the reason we are underperforming?
The major clearout is going to happen regardless of who the Manager is
Indeed it will, as it does with many teams in the lower leagues each season.
All I am saying if Bowyer is still here when that happens, and we are still under performing that's the excuse that will be thrown out.
IF Bowyer is staying, we can't keep playing attacking lineups when we have shipped 20+ more goals than nearly every other team in the top 10. Curbs used to arrest a slump by going ugly and playing defensive football, getting a 0-0 and using it as a platform to build from. We have to do that, go 4-5-1 and suffocate. It's mental to keep trying to play expansive football when the team are bereft of... everything.
Millar has been found out. Teams are now crowding him when he gets the ball so he doesn't have space to accelerate into, and he has struggled to offer anything as a result. His game needs to evolve and you can see why he joined a league one club now.
I don't understand the Ben Purrington love and I never will. He is a painfully just-below-average left-back.
Shinnie tries things but struggles in that formation. He hasn't been great but god, imagine what we'd have been like without him. Our one creative spark.
Pratley - If this guy gets a new contract, I'm done. I was expecting Bowyer to launch an attack on him for costing us once again, and instead he goes on about how much he loves him.
Watson - It's like a Palace fan decided to troll us by signing and pissing around. Has now overtaken El Khalej as my least favourite Charlton player of all time. Laughing and joking with the opposition again, as he was against Portsmouth (?) just after he'd gifted them the goal.
Stockley - Clearly a good player but through no fault of his own, he has made us worse. We are a kick and rush team at the moment. Compare to Bogle who used to drop short and bring people into play (but offered no goal threat). We looked a very different team.
But none of the players look up for it. The lack of appeals to the officials when there are crazy decisions, or shouts when one of our players gets clattered (compare to the shouts from Blackpool), the lack of passion or fight when we're getting slaughtered... We have enough managers on here (in a business world sense) to know that when you have staff who decide they hate the job and can't be arsed and know they're leaving anyway, there's nothing you can do other than appeal to their professionalism. And if that doesn't work, show them the door yourself. You can't inspire people who don't want to be inspired.
It's a perfect storm at the moment. The player's pure lack of motivation and Bowyer showing no sign of changing things up because he still thinks things are going against us. Something has to give.
I wish we still had a captain in the squad like Johnnie Jackson, who was the kind to bang some heads together to get people going, demanded effort and lead by example. Instead we have Nice Guy Pearce who wouldn't say boo to a goose.
48 points has been enough to keep a team safe for 4/5 past seasons. 52 in the other season. I laugh when I hear Curbs & Co talking about picking up form to get into the play-offs. I think we will finish around 16-18th, but that's not going to be attractive for recruiting talented players in the Summer.
Only going to pick up on the Purrington point. He's regularly a creative outlet, gives 100%, links well and rarely gives it away. The best wingers in the league have, on 2 occasions that have cost us this season, gone past him 1 on 1. One of those was painfully his fault. That happens, you need to support the full back. For some reason a Purrington mistake counts 10 times more than a Maatsen mistake in the eyes of some because he apparently isn't exciting or attacking enough. I find the lack of Purrington love weird... but that's football.
Where have all the the Charlton optimists gone? The people who said we were a top two side or plays offs at the minimum. The guys who said once we get a centre back playing after injury we will be all right. Where are all the Bowyer apologists, spouting off about Lee being "proper" Charlton? He is West ham and always will be. A very inexperienced manager who is well out of his depth.We dont hear much from all these delusional fools anymore.
3 posts since July, who are you to want to hear from those you call “delusional fools”. As AFKA says, people can reassess there initial thought as the season goes on.
They are not only average, some of them are cheating the club who are paying their wages. Out of yesterdays side I would probably only five were worth paying, four of those were loan players.
IF Bowyer is staying, we can't keep playing attacking lineups when we have shipped 20+ more goals than nearly every other team in the top 10. Curbs used to arrest a slump by going ugly and playing defensive football, getting a 0-0 and using it as a platform to build from. We have to do that, go 4-5-1 and suffocate. It's mental to keep trying to play expansive football when the team are bereft of... everything.
Millar has been found out. Teams are now crowding him when he gets the ball so he doesn't have space to accelerate into, and he has struggled to offer anything as a result. His game needs to evolve and you can see why he joined a league one club now.
I don't understand the Ben Purrington love and I never will. He is a painfully just-below-average left-back.
Shinnie tries things but struggles in that formation. He hasn't been great but god, imagine what we'd have been like without him. Our one creative spark.
Pratley - If this guy gets a new contract, I'm done. I was expecting Bowyer to launch an attack on him for costing us once again, and instead he goes on about how much he loves him.
Watson - It's like a Palace fan decided to troll us by signing and pissing around. Has now overtaken El Khalej as my least favourite Charlton player of all time. Laughing and joking with the opposition again, as he was against Portsmouth (?) just after he'd gifted them the goal.
Stockley - Clearly a good player but through no fault of his own, he has made us worse. We are a kick and rush team at the moment. Compare to Bogle who used to drop short and bring people into play (but offered no goal threat). We looked a very different team.
But none of the players look up for it. The lack of appeals to the officials when there are crazy decisions, or shouts when one of our players gets clattered (compare to the shouts from Blackpool), the lack of passion or fight when we're getting slaughtered... We have enough managers on here (in a business world sense) to know that when you have staff who decide they hate the job and can't be arsed and know they're leaving anyway, there's nothing you can do other than appeal to their professionalism. And if that doesn't work, show them the door yourself. You can't inspire people who don't want to be inspired.
It's a perfect storm at the moment. The player's pure lack of motivation and Bowyer showing no sign of changing things up because he still thinks things are going against us. Something has to give.
I wish we still had a captain in the squad like Johnnie Jackson, who was the kind to bang some heads together to get people going, demanded effort and lead by example. Instead we have Nice Guy Pearce who wouldn't say boo to a goose.
48 points has been enough to keep a team safe for 4/5 past seasons. 52 in the other season. I laugh when I hear Curbs & Co talking about picking up form to get into the play-offs. I think we will finish around 16-18th, but that's not going to be attractive for recruiting talented players in the Summer.
Only going to pick up on the Purrington point. He's regularly a creative outlet, gives 100%, links well and rarely gives it away. The best wingers in the league have, on 2 occasions that have cost us this season, gone past him 1 on 1. One of those was painfully his fault. That happens, you need to support the full back. For some reason a Purrington mistake counts 10 times more than a Maatsen mistake in the eyes of some because he apparently isn't exciting or attacking enough. I find the lack of Purrington love weird... but that's football.
I'd disagree with that, obviously! His pass accuracy is 68%, he's played 2 key passes all season and has three assists in the past four seasons of football.
I’m still bowyer in - think a lot of you have very short memories.
Love the club as much as any but I genuinely just wrote this season off Ipswich Sunderland are as big or bigger than us and struggling. We’ve got a club to support left and that does me.
If 22 points from 21 games with this squad in L1 playing some awful clueless football doesn't deserve the sack then I'm not sure what does? I've seen enough.
Half of the players at least are lazy c***s that don’t really care - bring a new manager in and we’ll see the same shit a major clear out in the summer needs to happen, they’ve got no discipline and no balls.
Another major clear out so Bowyer and fans can blame having a whole new squad as the reason we are underperforming?
Bowyer's current attitude towards his players is poisonous. Players talk, agents talk. Who do people think will join a lower mid table League One side with a manager that hates his own squad?
I’m still bowyer in - think a lot of you have very short memories.
Love the club as much as any but I genuinely just wrote this season off Ipswich Sunderland are as big or bigger than us and struggling. We’ve got a club to support left and that does me.
If 22 points from 21 games with this squad in L1 playing some awful clueless football doesn't deserve the sack then I'm not sure what does? I've seen enough.
Half of the players at least are lazy c***s that don’t really care - bring a new manager in and we’ll see the same shit a major clear out in the summer needs to happen, they’ve got no discipline and no balls.
Another major clear out so Bowyer and fans can blame having a whole new squad as the reason we are underperforming?
the fact fans expect us to do well with players like pearce and watson in the sqaud is a joke.
Watson was Lee Bowyer's marquee signing mate. If there's an issue with having him in the squad, there's only one person to blame.
I’m still bowyer in - think a lot of you have very short memories.
Love the club as much as any but I genuinely just wrote this season off Ipswich Sunderland are as big or bigger than us and struggling. We’ve got a club to support left and that does me.
If 22 points from 21 games with this squad in L1 playing some awful clueless football doesn't deserve the sack then I'm not sure what does? I've seen enough.
Half of the players at least are lazy c***s that don’t really care - bring a new manager in and we’ll see the same shit a major clear out in the summer needs to happen, they’ve got no discipline and no balls.
Another major clear out so Bowyer and fans can blame having a whole new squad as the reason we are underperforming?
the fact fans expect us to do well with players like pearce and watson in the sqaud is a joke.
So long as Bowyer blames the players some fans will support him - obviously all the other teams we are losing to have fantastic squads.
We've got steadily worse over the season with numerous players underperforming yet none of this apparently has anything to do with the manager. We just happen to be the one team in L1 with poor players that don't care.
Bowyer get us promoted two seasons ago with a strong squad and this apparently means we should stick with him indefinitely regardless of results.
Bowyer selects the players and was also involved in signing a lot of them so presumably has to take responsibility for something?
When Bowyer said “the problem with playing the best 11 is they can’t play Saturday Tuesday, Saturday Tuesday”. After that Curbs said “you need to play your best 11 just to get a result, that’s the most important thing now”.
There is the big difference. We need bloody results.
Amos: beaten from range again! Gunter: fine Oshilaja: park player Famewo: very good Purrington: able defending Jaiyesimi: goods not as described refund required See better in National south (before cancellation obvs) Shinnie: piss weak and his corners were shameful Pratley: the 2nd yellow made him look a fool which makes me think there’s trouble in the changing room Millar: bypassed then kicked out of the game Stockley: a warrior who ran his legs to stumps despite shit service and piss taking from so called colleagues Washington: lacked service Aneke: ran up blind alleys then threw an elbow Melt Smith: offers nothing not fit to clean Albie Morgan’s boots Watson: the ship had sailed by the time he got his first touch Maatsen: see Watson Referee: got 3 things right viz 1st pen, Prat’s 2nd yellow and Chuks violent conduct The rest of this fat cheat’s slow motion performance was reprehensible Also let down by one lino’s ignorance of the offside rule
IF Bowyer is staying, we can't keep playing attacking lineups when we have shipped 20+ more goals than nearly every other team in the top 10. Curbs used to arrest a slump by going ugly and playing defensive football, getting a 0-0 and using it as a platform to build from. We have to do that, go 4-5-1 and suffocate. It's mental to keep trying to play expansive football when the team are bereft of... everything.
Millar has been found out. Teams are now crowding him when he gets the ball so he doesn't have space to accelerate into, and he has struggled to offer anything as a result. His game needs to evolve and you can see why he joined a league one club now.
I don't understand the Ben Purrington love and I never will. He is a painfully just-below-average left-back.
Shinnie tries things but struggles in that formation. He hasn't been great but god, imagine what we'd have been like without him. Our one creative spark.
Pratley - If this guy gets a new contract, I'm done. I was expecting Bowyer to launch an attack on him for costing us once again, and instead he goes on about how much he loves him.
Watson - It's like a Palace fan decided to troll us by signing and pissing around. Has now overtaken El Khalej as my least favourite Charlton player of all time. Laughing and joking with the opposition again, as he was against Portsmouth (?) just after he'd gifted them the goal.
Stockley - Clearly a good player but through no fault of his own, he has made us worse. We are a kick and rush team at the moment. Compare to Bogle who used to drop short and bring people into play (but offered no goal threat). We looked a very different team.
But none of the players look up for it. The lack of appeals to the officials when there are crazy decisions, or shouts when one of our players gets clattered (compare to the shouts from Blackpool), the lack of passion or fight when we're getting slaughtered... We have enough managers on here (in a business world sense) to know that when you have staff who decide they hate the job and can't be arsed and know they're leaving anyway, there's nothing you can do other than appeal to their professionalism. And if that doesn't work, show them the door yourself. You can't inspire people who don't want to be inspired.
It's a perfect storm at the moment. The player's pure lack of motivation and Bowyer showing no sign of changing things up because he still thinks things are going against us. Something has to give.
I wish we still had a captain in the squad like Johnnie Jackson, who was the kind to bang some heads together to get people going, demanded effort and lead by example. Instead we have Nice Guy Pearce who wouldn't say boo to a goose.
48 points has been enough to keep a team safe for 4/5 past seasons. 52 in the other season. I laugh when I hear Curbs & Co talking about picking up form to get into the play-offs. I think we will finish around 16-18th, but that's not going to be attractive for recruiting talented players in the Summer.
Only going to pick up on the Purrington point. He's regularly a creative outlet, gives 100%, links well and rarely gives it away. The best wingers in the league have, on 2 occasions that have cost us this season, gone past him 1 on 1. One of those was painfully his fault. That happens, you need to support the full back. For some reason a Purrington mistake counts 10 times more than a Maatsen mistake in the eyes of some because he apparently isn't exciting or attacking enough. I find the lack of Purrington love weird... but that's football.
I'd disagree with that, obviously! His pass accuracy is 68%, he's played 2 key passes all season and has three assists in the past four seasons of football.
Add 5 goals to that mix, and runs and links with the wingers, and that's what you might expect from a full-back? I would rely on the winger for most of the final ball.
IF Bowyer is staying, we can't keep playing attacking lineups when we have shipped 20+ more goals than nearly every other team in the top 10. Curbs used to arrest a slump by going ugly and playing defensive football, getting a 0-0 and using it as a platform to build from. We have to do that, go 4-5-1 and suffocate. It's mental to keep trying to play expansive football when the team are bereft of... everything.
Millar has been found out. Teams are now crowding him when he gets the ball so he doesn't have space to accelerate into, and he has struggled to offer anything as a result. His game needs to evolve and you can see why he joined a league one club now.
I don't understand the Ben Purrington love and I never will. He is a painfully just-below-average left-back.
Shinnie tries things but struggles in that formation. He hasn't been great but god, imagine what we'd have been like without him. Our one creative spark.
Pratley - If this guy gets a new contract, I'm done. I was expecting Bowyer to launch an attack on him for costing us once again, and instead he goes on about how much he loves him.
Watson - It's like a Palace fan decided to troll us by signing and pissing around. Has now overtaken El Khalej as my least favourite Charlton player of all time. Laughing and joking with the opposition again, as he was against Portsmouth (?) just after he'd gifted them the goal.
Stockley - Clearly a good player but through no fault of his own, he has made us worse. We are a kick and rush team at the moment. Compare to Bogle who used to drop short and bring people into play (but offered no goal threat). We looked a very different team.
But none of the players look up for it. The lack of appeals to the officials when there are crazy decisions, or shouts when one of our players gets clattered (compare to the shouts from Blackpool), the lack of passion or fight when we're getting slaughtered... We have enough managers on here (in a business world sense) to know that when you have staff who decide they hate the job and can't be arsed and know they're leaving anyway, there's nothing you can do other than appeal to their professionalism. And if that doesn't work, show them the door yourself. You can't inspire people who don't want to be inspired.
It's a perfect storm at the moment. The player's pure lack of motivation and Bowyer showing no sign of changing things up because he still thinks things are going against us. Something has to give.
I wish we still had a captain in the squad like Johnnie Jackson, who was the kind to bang some heads together to get people going, demanded effort and lead by example. Instead we have Nice Guy Pearce who wouldn't say boo to a goose.
48 points has been enough to keep a team safe for 4/5 past seasons. 52 in the other season. I laugh when I hear Curbs & Co talking about picking up form to get into the play-offs. I think we will finish around 16-18th, but that's not going to be attractive for recruiting talented players in the Summer.
Only going to pick up on the Purrington point. He's regularly a creative outlet, gives 100%, links well and rarely gives it away. The best wingers in the league have, on 2 occasions that have cost us this season, gone past him 1 on 1. One of those was painfully his fault. That happens, you need to support the full back. For some reason a Purrington mistake counts 10 times more than a Maatsen mistake in the eyes of some because he apparently isn't exciting or attacking enough. I find the lack of Purrington love weird... but that's football.
I'd disagree with that, obviously! His pass accuracy is 68%, he's played 2 key passes all season and has three assists in the past four seasons of football.
Add 5 goals to that mix, and runs and links with the wingers, and that's what you might expect from a full-back? I would rely on the winger for most of the final ball.
Well if we compare him to someone who I would deem a good League One left-back (rather than average), Connor Ogilvie. He has played 19 key passes this season, created 22 chances, scored 2 goals and got 3 assists. His pass average is lower at 48%.
That's the kind of left-back I hope we're after in the Summer because Ben, while a decent squad player, in my opinion is not good.
I'm honestly surprised people aren't angrier about what Bowyer is saying. I get that people think he's to blame too, and that's fine, but he hasn't become a liar overnight and he's saying that there are a lot of players at this club who just don't care. That's a big problem. Maybe we can bring in a manager to make motivate them, but should we have to? Should we be satisfied with players who can decide that they don't fancy it anymore if they don't like the manager and down tools? We've had teams like that before under Pardew and when Powell came in, and changing the manager didn't fix it because there's a problem at a fundamental level. Contrast Riga's two spells; a Powell team full of desire that lacked a bit of quality, and then a team full of randoms who mostly didn't look like they cared even once. One stayed up and one didn't. I can deal with players not being very good, I can deal with having a manager who isn't up to it, I can deal with poor performances when players are out of their depth, but I really can't stand having players who just shrug their shoulders, don't train as hard as they could and aren't bothered. Football is all most of us have during this lockdown period, the least they can do is care.
To be fair, he would say that wouldn't he? How about the possibility, that some of us have been trying to say for ages, that he has lost them?
But then you're saying that he's lying. He's just straight up lying saying that they don't care and they're cutting corners and not trying to improve. I'm perfectly fine with saying that Bowyer isn't a good tactician, changes the line-up too much, criticises players too much publicly, whatever, but it's a bridge too far to say that he's just making stuff up. He may well have 'lost them', but if their response to not liking the manager is that they can't be arsed anymore and they'll serve up performances like this then they don't get a pass, they should be shown the door. You can get in any manager you want, I'm not interested in players who only give a shit about playing for Charlton when it suits then. People shouldn't be blind to that just because they don't like the manager. We can be angry about both things
@Garrymanilow have you never worked for a really bad boss or simply fallen out with one?
Most of us agree that Bowyer ain't going to motivate players with his public comments, so just how bad are his private ones?
As an angry and disgruntled employee, all you want to do is get through your day and hope you can find a better place to work or your boss moves on.
You hate getting up in the morning to face the same old shit again, you can't get out as a footballer because there is no transfer window. You know that you need to perform or another employee won't want you, but you are constantly confused about what you are being asked to do, no chance of developing a working relationship with your colleagues because personnel constantly moves to another department.
If I've got a boss telling the world, I'm a shirker, I don't have any pride in my work, I know I would struggle to find any enthusiasm to go the extra mile. It leads to stressed out employees and poor performances.
When Thomas took over, we all thought that Bowyer had done a great job in the circumstances up til then. I've no idea why Bowyer hasn't moved forward, perhaps it's the change of personnel around him, perhaps he simply wasn't ever that good?
Whatever the reason, it's patently clear, and has been for weeks that there is no coming back from his piss poor management. He ain't going to get the players back now.
Thomas must realise this and if he isn't currently looking for a replacement then our new owner is a fool.
Of course I have. But, and because I apparently need to keep repeating myself on this thread, there is a difference between not excelling, working yourself into the ground every day to improve yourself and the business, and not bothering to do the basics and barely turning up. That's aside from the fact that football and regular jobs that we all hate having to do aren't comparable anyway. If we're doing this though, I've had jobs where I've felt really well supported and it's driven me to excel. I've also had jobs where I've felt unrewarded for my efforts and poorly managed and I've decided that I'm not going to waste all my energy trying to build in new processes to make the people above me's lives easier, but I've still turned up every day, done what was required of me and met my deadlines. I've done what was required of me in my job, I just haven't gone beyond. These players aren't doing the basics of their jobs though. There is such a long, long distance between not being driven to excel and barely even bothering to show up. Regardless though, my point throughout this thread, and I feel like I'm going insane trying to point out that you can feel two things at once and hearing back 'but BOWYER' every time is that you can be annoyed at more than one thing. I am currently annoyed at a) Bowyer for not setting up well and overseeing a poor season so far and b) the players who can piss and moan all they want about not liking the mean man in charge but can't complete 5 yard passes in a 4-4-2, can't avoid giving away stupid penalties, can't even be arsed to stay on the pitch for the full 90 without doing something stupid and getting a red. I have not once defended Bowyer on this thread, but by ignoring the fact that these players have visibly decided that they aren't going to try a leg while playing for the club because they don't feel like it, meaning the season we're forced to watch in lockdown goes down the toilet, fans are letting the players get away with murder. Be angry at Bowyer, sack him, I truly don't care anymore, but we'll still be left with players who can't be arsed to represent our club when the mood takes them. Absolving them of blame for that because you don't like the manager is truly insane to me. They should get pilloried too, and it won't change long-term just because we get a new manager in because eventually those same players will decide they don't like him either and do it again. Be angry at Bowyer. Also be angry at the players who feel like they can down tools at our club if they feel like it. Don't make excuses for anyone, they don't deserve it.
The only academy representative was Nathan Harness, an
untried substitute goalkeeper.
The wisdom of Bowyer's policy of recruiting old men of the
likes of Gunter, Watson and Shinnie, and relying on Pratley in the midfield
engine room was there for all to see.
We are now in a situation where a player like Williams or Lapslie might be worth trying but we let them go. From possibly having too many midfield options, we currently don't have enough. We brought in Smith I presume because we let them go, but why, Bowyer doesn't rate him!
The only academy representative was Nathan Harness, an
untried substitute goalkeeper.
The wisdom of Bowyer's policy of recruiting old men of the
likes of Gunter, Watson and Shinnie, and relying on Pratley in the midfield
engine room was there for all to see.
And Harness isn’t even from the academy, he signed last season when he was about 19.
I’m still bowyer in - think a lot of you have very short memories.
Love the club as much as any but I genuinely just wrote this season off Ipswich Sunderland are as big or bigger than us and struggling. We’ve got a club to support left and that does me.
If 22 points from 21 games with this squad in L1 playing some awful clueless football doesn't deserve the sack then I'm not sure what does? I've seen enough.
Half of the players at least are lazy c***s that don’t really care - bring a new manager in and we’ll see the same shit a major clear out in the summer needs to happen, they’ve got no discipline and no balls.
Another major clear out so Bowyer and fans can blame having a whole new squad as the reason we are underperforming?
the fact fans expect us to do well with players like pearce and watson in the sqaud is a joke.
So long as Bowyer blames the players some fans will support him - obviously all the other teams we are losing to have fantastic squads.
We've got steadily worse over the season with numerous players underperforming yet none of this apparently has anything to do with the manager. We just happen to be the one team in L1 with poor players that don't care.
Bowyer get us promoted two seasons ago with a strong squad and this apparently means we should stick with him indefinitely regardless of results.
Bowyer selects the players and was also involved in signing a lot of them so presumably has to take responsibility for something?
I just don’t see the point in replacing him now we will have enough to stay up.
The steady stream of good academy players seems to have dried up. Is that because there is a current gap in academy players coming through or is Bowyer not trusting them? I ask as I don’t know.
The steady stream of good academy players seems to have dried up. Is that because there is a current gap in academy players coming through or is Bowyer not trusting them? I ask as I don’t know.
It is probably a good thing. Had an academy player came in and moderately impressed, somebody would have signed him before next season starts!
With this season looking like lower mid-table obscurity, I was just thinking, who from this squad of player's under contract might be kept or moved on in the summer. Obviously there are some loans and players out of contract that may be worth keeping on, but there is no guarantee or likelihood of that happening so all of those must be excluded.
Who is here for next season already and who would you keep?
The squad next season will be what it is, but when it is obvious the manager is the problem, it is not fair to be too critical of the players. Some of the Bowyer lovers look like they are trying to move the agenda to them.
I'm honestly surprised people aren't angrier about what Bowyer is saying. I get that people think he's to blame too, and that's fine, but he hasn't become a liar overnight and he's saying that there are a lot of players at this club who just don't care. That's a big problem. Maybe we can bring in a manager to make motivate them, but should we have to? Should we be satisfied with players who can decide that they don't fancy it anymore if they don't like the manager and down tools? We've had teams like that before under Pardew and when Powell came in, and changing the manager didn't fix it because there's a problem at a fundamental level. Contrast Riga's two spells; a Powell team full of desire that lacked a bit of quality, and then a team full of randoms who mostly didn't look like they cared even once. One stayed up and one didn't. I can deal with players not being very good, I can deal with having a manager who isn't up to it, I can deal with poor performances when players are out of their depth, but I really can't stand having players who just shrug their shoulders, don't train as hard as they could and aren't bothered. Football is all most of us have during this lockdown period, the least they can do is care.
To be fair, he would say that wouldn't he? How about the possibility, that some of us have been trying to say for ages, that he has lost them?
But then you're saying that he's lying. He's just straight up lying saying that they don't care and they're cutting corners and not trying to improve. I'm perfectly fine with saying that Bowyer isn't a good tactician, changes the line-up too much, criticises players too much publicly, whatever, but it's a bridge too far to say that he's just making stuff up. He may well have 'lost them', but if their response to not liking the manager is that they can't be arsed anymore and they'll serve up performances like this then they don't get a pass, they should be shown the door. You can get in any manager you want, I'm not interested in players who only give a shit about playing for Charlton when it suits then. People shouldn't be blind to that just because they don't like the manager. We can be angry about both things
@Garrymanilow have you never worked for a really bad boss or simply fallen out with one?
Most of us agree that Bowyer ain't going to motivate players with his public comments, so just how bad are his private ones?
As an angry and disgruntled employee, all you want to do is get through your day and hope you can find a better place to work or your boss moves on.
You hate getting up in the morning to face the same old shit again, you can't get out as a footballer because there is no transfer window. You know that you need to perform or another employee won't want you, but you are constantly confused about what you are being asked to do, no chance of developing a working relationship with your colleagues because personnel constantly moves to another department.
If I've got a boss telling the world, I'm a shirker, I don't have any pride in my work, I know I would struggle to find any enthusiasm to go the extra mile. It leads to stressed out employees and poor performances.
When Thomas took over, we all thought that Bowyer had done a great job in the circumstances up til then. I've no idea why Bowyer hasn't moved forward, perhaps it's the change of personnel around him, perhaps he simply wasn't ever that good?
Whatever the reason, it's patently clear, and has been for weeks that there is no coming back from his piss poor management. He ain't going to get the players back now.
Thomas must realise this and if he isn't currently looking for a replacement then our new owner is a fool.
Of course I have. But, and because I apparently need to keep repeating myself on this thread, there is a difference between not excelling, working yourself into the ground every day to improve yourself and the business, and not bothering to do the basics and barely turning up. That's aside from the fact that football and regular jobs that we all hate having to do aren't comparable anyway. If we're doing this though, I've had jobs where I've felt really well supported and it's driven me to excel. I've also had jobs where I've felt unrewarded for my efforts and poorly managed and I've decided that I'm not going to waste all my energy trying to build in new processes to make the people above me's lives easier, but I've still turned up every day, done what was required of me and met my deadlines. I've done what was required of me in my job, I just haven't gone beyond. These players aren't doing the basics of their jobs though. There is such a long, long distance between not being driven to excel and barely even bothering to show up. Regardless though, my point throughout this thread, and I feel like I'm going insane trying to point out that you can feel two things at once and hearing back 'but BOWYER' every time is that you can be annoyed at more than one thing. I am currently annoyed at a) Bowyer for not setting up well and overseeing a poor season so far and b) the players who can piss and moan all they want about not liking the mean man in charge but can't complete 5 yard passes in a 4-4-2, can't avoid giving away stupid penalties, can't even be arsed to stay on the pitch for the full 90 without doing something stupid and getting a red. I have not once defended Bowyer on this thread, but by ignoring the fact that these players have visibly decided that they aren't going to try a leg while playing for the club because they don't feel like it, meaning the season we're forced to watch in lockdown goes down the toilet, fans are letting the players get away with murder. Be angry at Bowyer, sack him, I truly don't care anymore, but we'll still be left with players who can't be arsed to represent our club when the mood takes them. Absolving them of blame for that because you don't like the manager is truly insane to me. They should get pilloried too, and it won't change long-term just because we get a new manager in because eventually those same players will decide they don't like him either and do it again. Be angry at Bowyer. Also be angry at the players who feel like they can down tools at our club if they feel like it. Don't make excuses for anyone, they don't deserve it.
I understand where you're coming from I am just trying to understand why we have got to this situation where almost universally, we are considered to have a good squad of players that are under performing.
I don't think you can point the finger at the players when it appears to be all of them having a poor attitude when at least some of them played much better under previous managers.
If we change the manager and our performances and results stay the same, I will hold my hands up and say "sorry Lee I was wrong". I have been wrong at times, ask Mrs TT, but I don't think I am this time. Come to think of it, I don't recall a time that I have been.
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All I am saying if Bowyer is still here when that happens, and we are still under performing that's the excuse that will be thrown out.
We've got steadily worse over the season with numerous players underperforming yet none of this apparently has anything to do with the manager. We just happen to be the one team in L1 with poor players that don't care.
Bowyer get us promoted two seasons ago with a strong squad and this apparently means we should stick with him indefinitely regardless of results.
Bowyer selects the players and was also involved in signing a lot of them so presumably has to take responsibility for something?
There is the big difference. We need bloody results.
https://thefishy.co.uk/formtable.php?table=3
Gunter: fine
Oshilaja: park player
Famewo: very good
Purrington: able defending
Jaiyesimi: goods not as described refund required See better in National south (before cancellation obvs)
Shinnie: piss weak and his corners were shameful
Pratley: the 2nd yellow made him look a fool which makes me think there’s trouble in the changing room
Millar: bypassed then kicked out of the game
Stockley: a warrior who ran his legs to stumps despite shit service and piss taking from so called colleagues
Washington: lacked service
Aneke: ran up blind alleys then threw an elbow Melt
Smith: offers nothing not fit to clean Albie Morgan’s boots
Watson: the ship had sailed by the time he got his first touch
Maatsen: see Watson
Referee: got 3 things right viz 1st pen, Prat’s 2nd yellow and Chuks violent conduct The rest of this fat cheat’s slow motion performance was reprehensible Also let down by one lino’s ignorance of the offside rule
That's the kind of left-back I hope we're after in the Summer because Ben, while a decent squad player, in my opinion is not good.
A great advert for our Academy Day yesterday.
The only academy representative was Nathan Harness, an untried substitute goalkeeper.
The wisdom of Bowyer's policy of recruiting old men of the likes of Gunter, Watson and Shinnie, and relying on Pratley in the midfield engine room was there for all to see.
With this season looking like lower mid-table obscurity, I was just thinking, who from this squad of player's under contract might be kept or moved on in the summer. Obviously there are some loans and players out of contract that may be worth keeping on, but there is no guarantee or likelihood of that happening so all of those must be excluded.
Who is here for next season already and who would you keep?
I don't think you can point the finger at the players when it appears to be all of them having a poor attitude when at least some of them played much better under previous managers.
If we change the manager and our performances and results stay the same, I will hold my hands up and say "sorry Lee I was wrong". I have been wrong at times, ask Mrs TT, but I don't think I am this time. Come to think of it, I don't recall a time that I have been.