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Post-match Thread: Charlton v Blackpool | Sat 27 Feb 2021
Comments
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Purrington, Forster-Caskey, Morgan, Inniss, Schwartz, Aneke, Maynard-Brewer, Shinnie, JaiyesimiThe Prince-e-Paul said:The road ahead.
With this season looking like lower mid-table obscurity, I was just thinking, who from this squad of player's under contract might be kept or moved on in the summer. Obviously there are some loans and players out of contract that may be worth keeping on, but there is no guarantee or likelihood of that happening so all of those must be excluded.
Who is here for next season already and who would you keep?2 -
So, a boring 0-0 it is thenmid_life_crisis said:We are odds on to beat Wigan on Tuesday, they are 11/4 !0 -
This is just absurd. The pantomine has to stop; Only masochistic people can get anything from the matches now.
Have we reached our nadir ?
When it reaches the stage when you miss Karel Fraeye telling the players to run around and enjoy, you know the wheels have come off big time.
Check out the Lincoln squad under Michael Appleton before saying we have a poor 18.
Lincoln are over achieving big time.
Lee Bowyer had a free hit this season for me after the nonsense going on off the pitch but he needs a break from management. When you don't have the individual skills that Taylor,Grant, Bielik, Callan, Aribo etc bring to a team you need a game plan that everyone understands.
No problem with having plan A and B but plan A to Z is too confusing for the players.
I don't feel anger, just sadness that this season has gone so wrong and Lee Bowyer looks so lost.
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Do you not see how problematic this line of thinking is? Everyone on here is a Charlton fan. Everyone wants Charlton to succeed, and they will have different opinions on that. Some think Bowyer is solely the problem, some may think the players are solely the problem, though I don't think I've seen anyone say that, and some think it's a more complex combination of issues. Regardless of that, starting to create little factions within the fanbase and referring to people with a different opinion to you as a 'Bowyer lover' is childish and counterproductive. You should be careful that your unflinching focus on not liking Bowyer doesn't start to completely take over your whole Charlton focus. It's stuff like this that makes discourse toxic.MuttleyCAFC said:The squad next season will be what it is, but when it is obvious the manager is the problem, it is not fair to be too critical of the players. Some of the Bowyer lovers look like they are trying to move the agenda to them.
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It would probably be a good idea to give players a chance this season under a new manager to stake a claim.ForeverAddickted said:
Purrington, Forster-Caskey, Morgan, Inniss, Schwartz, Aneke, Maynard-Brewer, Shinnie, JaiyesimiThe Prince-e-Paul said:The road ahead.
With this season looking like lower mid-table obscurity, I was just thinking, who from this squad of player's under contract might be kept or moved on in the summer. Obviously there are some loans and players out of contract that may be worth keeping on, but there is no guarantee or likelihood of that happening so all of those must be excluded.
Who is here for next season already and who would you keep?4 -
Why? - If they can act like this towards one Manager they can do it to the next if they dont like themMuttleyCAFC said:
It would probably be a good idea to give players a chance this season under a new manager to stake a claim.ForeverAddickted said:
Purrington, Forster-Caskey, Morgan, Inniss, Schwartz, Aneke, Maynard-Brewer, Shinnie, JaiyesimiThe Prince-e-Paul said:The road ahead.
With this season looking like lower mid-table obscurity, I was just thinking, who from this squad of player's under contract might be kept or moved on in the summer. Obviously there are some loans and players out of contract that may be worth keeping on, but there is no guarantee or likelihood of that happening so all of those must be excluded.
Who is here for next season already and who would you keep?
Dont want players like that around here8 -
It isn't about liking them or not. It is about respecting them. It is the same everywhere, not just in football. I have seen terrible teams at work totally transformed by a good manager. The same people, just well led.3
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Must be one of the weird aspects of Covid football that people are quick to take any blame away from the players.
If that game was played in front of our supporters yesterday, they would have absolutely got it in the neck for that lack of effort. Don't tell me otherwise. But since we're not there, the blame shifts elsewhere and it's not their fault they're not trying.4 -
I believe there will emerge good academy graduates in the near future.HardyAddick said:The steady stream of good academy players seems to have dried up. Is that because there is a current gap in academy players coming through or is Bowyer not trusting them? I ask as I don’t know.
If we are clearly going nowhere this season I would give them games to gain experience.2 -
It’s a tough one.robroy said:When Bowyer said “the problem with playing the best 11 is they can’t play Saturday Tuesday, Saturday Tuesday”. After that Curbs said “you need to play your best 11 just to get a result, that’s the most important thing now”.
There is the big difference. We need bloody results.Can completely see where Curbs is coming from, and I agree that some consistency in a first 11 is needed for success in this league.I can also see where Bowyer is coming from as he has managed during a time where we’ve been hit by the worst number of injuries any of us have ever seen. Bowyer is clearly not willing to gamble on any players fitness now. That’s hurting us, but I understand why he’s become so nervous to play players in back to back games, considering we’ve been forced to sign players made of glass for a lot of his managerial career.0 - Sponsored links:
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I dont buy into the theory that players are not trying. Ok they may be thinking their contracts are up but performances on the pitch are their shop window. This is where they will get their next move. The team is being set up in a 1 dimensional style and is just so easy to play against. Any kind of flair is frowned upon and I get the feeling that LB would be happier if the players just had a mass brawl with the opposition rather than play football.
Not to call Pratley out yesterday was another example of different rules for different players.
Just look at our loan players and if anyone can say that they have improved since they came here needs to look at themselves.
Man management is all about motivating people but our Manager imo does not have the skill sets or empathy to be able to do so.
If things carry on like this it is only going to get worse. If LB as the manager doesnt think players are putting a shift in then drop them and play some youngsters, it's his call at the end of the day he must stand or fall on those decisions.
4 substitutes at halftime is just embarrassing and is only showing a complete lack of direction or understanding of what you set out to achieve at the start of the game.
If this continues how long until we read about the Sparrows Lane fight when one of these players has had enough and decks LB ?
Enough is enough it needs to end now asap before things get really toxic4 -
AFKABartram said:Only seen the goals and reds so not been influenced by what sounded a turgid performance, but the second penalty is a joke and I can’t really see from the angle what Pratley did so wrong considering he’d just been take out. Player reaction got him sent off there.Equally Chuks red has a question mark against it, though he’s fairly non bothered reaction tells you just how much some of them are not 100% with us at the moment.
I know there is a shedload wrong at the moment and some people don’t believe there is such thing as luck. But the amount of key decisions, woodwork etc in recent months that haven’t fallen our way is sizeable.Must have been a fairly big black cat that Bowyer ran overPratley did a sly palm of hand into matey's face as he tried to get up. Asking for trouble but any clear-thinking manager would have removed him at half-time because he'd been multiple fouling in the 1st half and eventually got a booking.
On the wider issue of luck...if you are playing well, the "bad luck" normally becomes largely irrelevant as the good play still gets you results. But I agree, we do seem to be going through a weird spell of non-fortune at the moment.2 -
I have absolutely no interest in you holding your hands up if the players continue to underperform, none. Why would I? Why would anyone? If anyone is on here looking for receipts if things don't improve in the future then you can just ignore them. My point is that we have lots of fingers and we can point them in multiple directions. There's plenty on here blaming Bowyer, I think we should blame the players too. As well as. They can perform better than they are even if they're not feeling it, certainly well enough to turn up against Burton and Gillingham at home. No-one is absolved.TellyTubby said:
I understand where you're coming from I am just trying to understand why we have got to this situation where almost universally, we are considered to have a good squad of players that are under performing.Garrymanilow said:
Of course I have. But, and because I apparently need to keep repeating myself on this thread, there is a difference between not excelling, working yourself into the ground every day to improve yourself and the business, and not bothering to do the basics and barely turning up. That's aside from the fact that football and regular jobs that we all hate having to do aren't comparable anyway. If we're doing this though, I've had jobs where I've felt really well supported and it's driven me to excel. I've also had jobs where I've felt unrewarded for my efforts and poorly managed and I've decided that I'm not going to waste all my energy trying to build in new processes to make the people above me's lives easier, but I've still turned up every day, done what was required of me and met my deadlines. I've done what was required of me in my job, I just haven't gone beyond. These players aren't doing the basics of their jobs though. There is such a long, long distance between not being driven to excel and barely even bothering to show up. Regardless though, my point throughout this thread, and I feel like I'm going insane trying to point out that you can feel two things at once and hearing back 'but BOWYER' every time is that you can be annoyed at more than one thing. I am currently annoyed at a) Bowyer for not setting up well and overseeing a poor season so far and b) the players who can piss and moan all they want about not liking the mean man in charge but can't complete 5 yard passes in a 4-4-2, can't avoid giving away stupid penalties, can't even be arsed to stay on the pitch for the full 90 without doing something stupid and getting a red. I have not once defended Bowyer on this thread, but by ignoring the fact that these players have visibly decided that they aren't going to try a leg while playing for the club because they don't feel like it, meaning the season we're forced to watch in lockdown goes down the toilet, fans are letting the players get away with murder. Be angry at Bowyer, sack him, I truly don't care anymore, but we'll still be left with players who can't be arsed to represent our club when the mood takes them. Absolving them of blame for that because you don't like the manager is truly insane to me. They should get pilloried too, and it won't change long-term just because we get a new manager in because eventually those same players will decide they don't like him either and do it again. Be angry at Bowyer. Also be angry at the players who feel like they can down tools at our club if they feel like it. Don't make excuses for anyone, they don't deserve it.TellyTubby said:
@Garrymanilow have you never worked for a really bad boss or simply fallen out with one?Garrymanilow said:
But then you're saying that he's lying. He's just straight up lying saying that they don't care and they're cutting corners and not trying to improve. I'm perfectly fine with saying that Bowyer isn't a good tactician, changes the line-up too much, criticises players too much publicly, whatever, but it's a bridge too far to say that he's just making stuff up. He may well have 'lost them', but if their response to not liking the manager is that they can't be arsed anymore and they'll serve up performances like this then they don't get a pass, they should be shown the door. You can get in any manager you want, I'm not interested in players who only give a shit about playing for Charlton when it suits then. People shouldn't be blind to that just because they don't like the manager. We can be angry about both thingsMuttleyCAFC said:
To be fair, he would say that wouldn't he? How about the possibility, that some of us have been trying to say for ages, that he has lost them?Garrymanilow said:I'm honestly surprised people aren't angrier about what Bowyer is saying. I get that people think he's to blame too, and that's fine, but he hasn't become a liar overnight and he's saying that there are a lot of players at this club who just don't care. That's a big problem. Maybe we can bring in a manager to make motivate them, but should we have to? Should we be satisfied with players who can decide that they don't fancy it anymore if they don't like the manager and down tools? We've had teams like that before under Pardew and when Powell came in, and changing the manager didn't fix it because there's a problem at a fundamental level. Contrast Riga's two spells; a Powell team full of desire that lacked a bit of quality, and then a team full of randoms who mostly didn't look like they cared even once. One stayed up and one didn't. I can deal with players not being very good, I can deal with having a manager who isn't up to it, I can deal with poor performances when players are out of their depth, but I really can't stand having players who just shrug their shoulders, don't train as hard as they could and aren't bothered. Football is all most of us have during this lockdown period, the least they can do is care.
Most of us agree that Bowyer ain't going to motivate players with his public comments, so just how bad are his private ones?
As an angry and disgruntled employee, all you want to do is get through your day and hope you can find a better place to work or your boss moves on.
You hate getting up in the morning to face the same old shit again, you can't get out as a footballer because there is no transfer window. You know that you need to perform or another employee won't want you, but you are constantly confused about what you are being asked to do, no chance of developing a working relationship with your colleagues because personnel constantly moves to another department.
If I've got a boss telling the world, I'm a shirker, I don't have any pride in my work, I know I would struggle to find any enthusiasm to go the extra mile. It leads to stressed out employees and poor performances.
When Thomas took over, we all thought that Bowyer had done a great job in the circumstances up til then. I've no idea why Bowyer hasn't moved forward, perhaps it's the change of personnel around him, perhaps he simply wasn't ever that good?
Whatever the reason, it's patently clear, and has been for weeks that there is no coming back from his piss poor management. He ain't going to get the players back now.
Thomas must realise this and if he isn't currently looking for a replacement then our new owner is a fool.
I don't think you can point the finger at the players when it appears to be all of them having a poor attitude when at least some of them played much better under previous managers.
If we change the manager and our performances and results stay the same, I will hold my hands up and say "sorry Lee I was wrong". I have been wrong at times, ask Mrs TT, but I don't think I am this time. Come to think of it, I don't recall a time that I have been.
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Lee picks the team
Lee changes the formation
Lee makes four subs at half time
Lee praises Pratley and spends significant parts of our wage cap on Gunther, Watson, Maddison and Matthews.
Lee calls out Albie, Williams and Maddison.
Lee decides Morgan, Lapslie and Barker aren't good enough for our match squad whilst we concede 2 goals a game minimum for the last nine home games and win one of our last 10.
Lee decides Gunther or Pratley are the right answer at Centre half despite our woeful form.
At what point is it Lee's fault enough to get the sack. We are overperforming, underperforming, not performing at all.
He came in and cajoled a great side with great players, but once the bubble burst he simply has had no idea how to inspire, motivate and get a decent set of performances out of the side.
It is getting worse, not better. Why does anybody have any confidence he can sort this out next season.
Players won't trust him, agents won't trust him and I doubt other clubs will trust him based on his treatment of most loan playera this season.28 -
What Pratley did yesterday was get booked without actually hurting the player. I am not advocating hurting opponents, but why would you risk that second booking on a powder puff gesture like that? It was ridiculously stupid and accurately called by Lisbie before Bowyer came out with his nonsense.
The ref was poor but the first was a penalty. The Pratley sending off was 100% correct. The second penalty was a poor decision and the Aneke sending off was very harsh but we probably won't win an appeal because it was probably a booking so then it becomes an interpretation issue rather than something the referee missed.1 -
I've been in the Bowyer out camp for a while, but just felt sorry for him yesterday. It was embarrassing on so many levels. Credit he started with what should have been a solid side, but it just didn't work. I had no problem with 4 halftime subs either as we desperately needed a spark. Then pratley gets sent off and the game is lost. Didn't even get angry tbh, just given up on this season now.
One thing Bow has spot on is the ref and the assistant were awful. Serriously how do they get away with it? The disallowed goal, both pratleys yellows, the laughable 2nd penalty and chucks' red. All incorrect in my opinion. Blackpool players conned the ref and their reaction to pratleys "foul" got him sent off. Clever of them I suppose, but I'd be fucking embarrassed if one of our players writhed around in agony holding his eyes/nose like that or threw himself up in the air when a defender gets within a yard of him! I've never liked Blackpool and this game has made me dislike them even more tbh
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This with bells on. Close the thread.supaclive said:Lee picks the team
Lee changes the formation
Lee makes four subs at half time
Lee praises Pratley and spends significant parts of our wage cap on Gunther, Watson, Maddison and Matthews.
Lee calls out Albie, Williams and Maddison.
Lee decides Morgan, Lapslie and Barker aren't good enough for our match squad whilst we concede 2 goals a game minimum for the last nine home games and win one of our last 10.
Lee decides Gunther or Pratley are the right answer at Centre half despite our woeful form.
At what point is it Lee's fault enough to get the sack. We are overperforming, underperforming, not performing at all.
He came in and cajoled a great side with great players, but once the bubble burst he simply has had no idea how to inspire, motivate and get a decent set of performances out of the side.
It is getting worse, not better. Why does anybody have any confidence he can sort this out next season.
Players won't trust him, agents won't trust him and I doubt other clubs will trust him based on his treatment of most loan playera this season.5 -
Please walk bowyer and Euell in till end of season had enough of this shit football for weeks now otherwise we may go down with bowyer players are not going to change for him.0
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I gave up feeling sorry for Bowyer when he started digging players and fans out. He must now know everything has crumbled around him and if he was anything like the man some people claim he is, he would have walked.
You cannot say the things he said yesterday and continue. He can because he doesn't want to lose the money.4 -
I don’t think the players are deliberately not performing as they seem to be running around like lost chickens; totally devoid of organisation, tactics and playing with different players each match. Lee said he wants them to relax and play football but for some reason they are not doing it.
Prateley is just a thug on the pitch. Shame really as he does put in a shift.
Not sure how Lee can turn this around unless he listens to the likes of Curbs in getting back to basics. Pick a starting 11 and stick with it.
Best of luck Lee.3 - Sponsored links:
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When the 2nd half started, I said Pratley would get his 2nd yellow card in the 60th minute, my son said 75 minutes. It was the 47th minute !
The insurance company has said this is a write off season. The nightmare needs to stop.
A coherent plan is needed on and off the pitch Now. Over to you Thomas Sandgaard.
Good luck.
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Just going through the What's app conversation with my son at half time leading to players coming out.
Me: Pratley off and Aneke for Washington.
Son: Pratley still on.
Me: Not for Long. Red card soon.0 -
Has the loss of William affected team spirit in the dressing room? Always seemed popular even if not playing.0
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People still buying Bowyers"it's the players fault" then?
As demotivated a side than I've ever seen in a Charlton shirt ..and that's saying something.
I'm afraid motivation is the managers job.8 -
Sorry if this has been mentioned earlier in the thread, but reading this part of LB's interview "“There’s players that are coming in. There’s players that will be going. We have to rebuild a team. In the summer it was a bit of a rush, obviously we are under the embargo. In January did we get the ones that we really needed? I think we did okay in both windows but there’s a gap. You’re seeing that now"
Am I being thick or is he saying he has already lined up players to join in the summer and they have agreed or that he is hoping to bring new players in? If the first option is the case, surely that means TS is keeping LB in situ for at least the start of next season, or he wouldn't have agreed to bring in certain players that a new manager might not want? Or am I reading too much into this?0 -
That’s exactly how I read it too @RedmidlandRedmidland said:Sorry if this has been mentioned earlier in the thread, but reading this part of LB's interview "“There’s players that are coming in. There’s players that will be going. We have to rebuild a team. In the summer it was a bit of a rush, obviously we are under the embargo. In January did we get the ones that we really needed? I think we did okay in both windows but there’s a gap. You’re seeing that now"
Am I being thick or is he saying he has already lined up players to join in the summer and they have agreed or that he is hoping to bring new players in? If the first option is the case, surely that means TS is keeping LB in situ for at least the start of next season, or he wouldn't have agreed to bring in certain players that a new manager might not want? Or am I reading too much into this?1 -
This too. Even the commentary said that Pratley is a risk when on a yellow as he has a stupid/ soft yellow card in him at any time of the game. Lee needs to get a grip if he is going to stay. The players are either not doing what he asks of them because they are incompetent or because they aren't listening. Either way, there is no solution for Lee at this moment in time.MuttleyCAFC said:Just going through the What's app conversation with my son at half time leading to players coming out.
Me: Pratley off and Aneke for Washington.
Son: Pratley still on.
Me: Not for Long. Red card soon.
Lee has tried being the tinker man and that didn't work. Tried with his tried and trusted war horses, ,(seasoned pro's), that didn't work. Bought some new players, to dilute the old guard, that didn't work. What else is there that Lee can do?0 -
If it is the case then I suppose we had better get ready for having a team that's likely to finish with a maximum on 10 men on the pitch every game with not a hint of anyone with any flairRedmidland said:Sorry if this has been mentioned earlier in the thread, but reading this part of LB's interview "“There’s players that are coming in. There’s players that will be going. We have to rebuild a team. In the summer it was a bit of a rush, obviously we are under the embargo. In January did we get the ones that we really needed? I think we did okay in both windows but there’s a gap. You’re seeing that now"
Am I being thick or is he saying he has already lined up players to join in the summer and they have agreed or that he is hoping to bring new players in? If the first option is the case, surely that means TS is keeping LB in situ for at least the start of next season, or he wouldn't have agreed to bring in certain players that a new manager might not want? Or am I reading too much into this?0 -
Lee Bowyer has done a great job for this club,getting us into the Championship with Roland still owning the club was a fantastic achievement for which he is justly celebrated. However no football manager can continue on past glories and the time has come for him to depart with dignity.
As a supporter for more than 60 years I cannot remember football as chaotic and aimless as we are having to endure at present.Unfortunately someone has to pay the price and,as we can’t get rid of all the players m it is the manager who must take the blame.
I would especially question the recruitment in the latest transfer window,with no pressure and a supportive owner.Only Stockley has improved the team and, I am afraid Gallen must be held to account.On his performances so far how anything could have signed Ronnie Schwartz is beyond me,how many touches has he actually had.?
Lee should go now and bring in Curbs and Jason Euell to see out the season,have a good clear out the has beens and the never beens and bring in anew manager with clear aims to get us back to where we should be4 -
Not at all, he expects players to compete
What he did say yesterday even though it does my head in over analysing things he says immediately after a game was "I tell them its a short career, ita over before you know it, dont waste it"
As a fan thats exactly how I feel when I see a player dialing in a performance, as an amateur player I always gave every game everything I had in the tank and now as a 39 year old with bad knees and ankles I dont regret the football life I had as mediocre as it was. I definitely played to the highest level I could because I gave it everything.
If I go back to playing 5 a side again I'll laugh when I see 19 year old kids not putting it in and having a tantrum when me and my band of fellow 38,39 and 40 plus year olds pass them off the pitch but compete for every ball. Which brings me onto something else, the amount of jumping over tackles that goes on by the younger generation staggers me.
Anyway back to the game. Prattley again is left so exposed and having to make those challenges he does because we can't retain possession. He's making dozens of tackles he has to get to every game and the law of averages says a 36 year old isn't going to make all of them
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