The strong stance on the women's team name change from TS is a weird one. I cannot think of any benefit to changing it and it seems to have caused a lot of bad noise.
Very strange one that.
Maybe the minutes will add more?
Maybe, just maybe, he thinks its a useful way to rebrand / relaunch (his prerogative) and as he doesn't find the term offensive and nor (apparently) did those involved 6 months ago he sees no compelling reason to change it now?
I assume he is just saying 'never say never' but for now its not something he feels inclined to reverse /accommodate the practicalities of reversing it (even if there are few).
If the decision was made six months ago, why weren’t the FA informed, why wasn’t the company name changed and why has the club itself continued to use “women” until now? Was it a decision in the close season to change the name in the middle of the season and what would be the sense of that?
I can only assume it means he decided in the last 6 months but didn’t act on it yet / until more recently for the matters you suggest will need to happen ?
My point was maybe the minutes might add some more flavour Maybe they won’t. Maybe those in attendance can describe the conversation more?
If only there was some possible way that everyone that cared could actually look in and see what was said and be able see the subtlety and nuances of the actual people rather than just rely on a set of “agreed” dry old minutes. One day they’ll find a way I’m sure.
😉
Yeh go for it, you’re just the chap to champion the cause. Email the fans adviser here fans@cafc.co.uk
Serious answer (and less bad tempered than yesterday I hope...)
I've attended a lot of Fans Forum meetings over the last few years on behalf of CAST. I'm a reasonably confident person and I've had no problem sometimes expressing robust views as well as being diplomatic when necessary. I've had occasional run-ins with other fans round the table.
I'm not sure I would have been keen to do it if it had been filmed. Maybe I'm just too sensitive, but having every nuance of everything I said (or didn't say) being picked over on forums like this one (or elsewhere) isn't something that I would be too thrilled about.
Maybe there are plenty of fans with thicker skins than mine who would be prepared to put in the time to be on a filmed Fans Forum. I can only speak for myself. I'd be interested to know what other attendees think.
Same here. Once things are recorded/streamed, everyone becomes more self conscious, that every word is being heard by thousands.
Typing up and agreeing minutes between the participants isn't a quick job, as good minutes can condense down what was a rambling point into a concise phrase. I don't want to read pages and pages of waffle, I want the abridged version.
I entirely agree with asking questions about the name of the women's team or ATV/RRR straight after the full time whistle (which WAS still played on Saturday straight afterwards), but don't see on field issues as being that relevant to the forum. The negotiations between TS and Jacko/whoever are by their nature confidential anyway.
It's the other issues which are more relevant, and I look forward to seeing those in due course (catering, toilets, turnstiles, ticketing initiatives etc)
The strong stance on the women's team name change from TS is a weird one. I cannot think of any benefit to changing it and it seems to have caused a lot of bad noise.
Very strange one that.
Maybe the minutes will add more?
Maybe, just maybe, he thinks its a useful way to rebrand / relaunch (his prerogative) and as he doesn't find the term offensive and nor (apparently) did those involved 6 months ago he sees no compelling reason to change it now?
I assume he is just saying 'never say never' but for now its not something he feels inclined to reverse /accommodate the practicalities of reversing it (even if there are few).
If the decision was made six months ago, why weren’t the FA informed, why wasn’t the company name changed and why has the club itself continued to use “women” until now? Was it a decision in the close season to change the name in the middle of the season and what would be the sense of that?
I can only assume it means he decided in the last 6 months but didn’t act on it yet / until more recently for the matters you suggest will need to happen ?
My point was maybe the minutes might add some more flavour Maybe they won’t. Maybe those in attendance can describe the conversation more?
If only there was some possible way that everyone that cared could actually look in and see what was said and be able see the subtlety and nuances of the actual people rather than just rely on a set of “agreed” dry old minutes. One day they’ll find a way I’m sure.
😉
Yeh go for it, you’re just the chap to champion the cause. Email the fans adviser here fans@cafc.co.uk
Serious answer (and less bad tempered than yesterday I hope...)
I've attended a lot of Fans Forum meetings over the last few years on behalf of CAST. I'm a reasonably confident person and I've had no problem sometimes expressing robust views as well as being diplomatic when necessary. I've had occasional run-ins with other fans round the table.
I'm not sure I would have been keen to do it if it had been filmed. Maybe I'm just too sensitive, but having every nuance of everything I said (or didn't say) being picked over on forums like this one (or elsewhere) isn't something that I would be too thrilled about.
Maybe there are plenty of fans with thicker skins than mine who would be prepared to put in the time to be on a filmed Fans Forum. I can only speak for myself. I'd be interested to know what other attendees think.
Remember when it was filmed and shown before (where Burger Boy kept saying South Stand and talk about potential flats). Everyone watching suddenly reckoned themselves to be top level lawyers and expected some forensic cross-examination be carried out in the room. The reality is different. Plus sadly there are some people who can be really nasty online.
Only improvement I can see is given what was put out today, that could easily have been put out the day after the meeting.
It’s not the full minutes which should rightly take more scrutiny and naturally will take longer to agree if there needs buy in from different stakeholders. But a few key themes bullets with a bit of supplementary info should be achievable the next day and stop a story building unnecessarily.
Many of us work where we have to provide summary emails following meetings within a couple of hours / minutes with 48hrs etc so it’s not a huge thing.
Serious answer (and less bad tempered than yesterday I hope...)
I've attended a lot of Fans Forum meetings over the last few years on behalf of CAST. I'm a reasonably confident person and I've had no problem sometimes expressing robust views as well as being diplomatic when necessary. I've had occasional run-ins with other fans round the table.
I'm not sure I would have been keen to do it if it had been filmed. Maybe I'm just too sensitive, but having every nuance of everything I said (or didn't say) being picked over on forums like this one (or elsewhere) isn't something that I would be too thrilled about.
Maybe there are plenty of fans with thicker skins than mine who would be prepared to put in the time to be on a filmed Fans Forum. I can only speak for myself. I'd be interested to know what other attendees think.
I wouldn’t be a fan of being filmed for similar personal reasons to the above, and it’s on the internet forever I think that’s a lot to ask, although it no longer applies to me.
I also agree with other sentiments that it would affect the tone of the meeting, and willingness for candid responses due to the inevitable heightened scrutiny. Its more of a partnership approach ideally than a QA tends to be, that being said it also offers deeper scrutiny as one can ask follow ups something which a much larger group might stop, and reps can build up knowledge and experience of how the club works, etc.
It can be pretty effective too - Cast your minds back to the graffiti incident where I and others told the owners then where to stick their attempts to make the FF and thereby Charlton fans, somehow accountable for that act, there are many many more less controversial examples though.
During more intense periods during my tenure of the takeover we did try and get a brief statement out more quickly.
Overall I think it works pretty well and I get the frustration, people just need to be a little more patient I’m afraid, that being said I will feedback on the summary issue.
Many of us work where we have to provide summary emails following meetings within a couple of hours / minutes with 48hrs etc so it’s not a huge thing.
I think a key word here is work. You should also remember that several attendees work elsewhere, don't work full time for the club, and that it is only right and proper that everybody who was at the meeting should be able to see the minutes (and able to comment on) before they are publicly issued.
Many of us work where we have to provide summary emails following meetings within a couple of hours / minutes with 48hrs etc so it’s not a huge thing.
I think a key word here is work. You should also remember that several attendees work elsewhere, don't work full time for the club, and that it is only right and proper that everybody who was at the meeting should be able to see the minutes (and able to comment on) before they are publicly issued.
FaIr enough @redman but I’m referring to summary bullets / post meeting / the following day not review of full minutes.
imo if you’re going to put yourself forward for roles and representations then you should expect a degree of input / output / time impact required upon you around what are just four meetings a year. But key bullet points to be circulated the following day (by a club employee) could easily be established in the last 5 mins of meeting imo with everyone still in the room. Perhaps I’m being harsh
Many of us work where we have to provide summary emails following meetings within a couple of hours / minutes with 48hrs etc so it’s not a huge thing.
I think a key word here is work. You should also remember that several attendees work elsewhere, don't work full time for the club, and that it is only right and proper that everybody who was at the meeting should be able to see the minutes (and able to comment on) before they are publicly issued.
FaIr enough @redman but I’m referring to summary bullets / post meeting / the following day not review of full minutes.
imo if you’re going to put yourself forward for roles and representations then you should expect a degree of input / output / time impact required upon you around what are just four meetings a year. But key bullet points to be circulated the following day (by a club employee) could easily be established in the last 5 mins of meeting imo with everyone still in the room. Perhaps I’m being harsh
see jacko thread - just dawned on me what the hold up could be - was there a new minute taker there who is an 'expert' on corporate affairs but maybe struggles to be concise ?
Comments
Yeh go for it, you’re just the chap to champion the cause. Email the fans adviser here fans@cafc.co.uk
And let us know how you get on 😉.
Typing up and agreeing minutes between the participants isn't a quick job, as good minutes can condense down what was a rambling point into a concise phrase. I don't want to read pages and pages of waffle, I want the abridged version.
I entirely agree with asking questions about the name of the women's team or ATV/RRR straight after the full time whistle (which WAS still played on Saturday straight afterwards), but don't see on field issues as being that relevant to the forum. The negotiations between TS and Jacko/whoever are by their nature confidential anyway.
It's the other issues which are more relevant, and I look forward to seeing those in due course (catering, toilets, turnstiles, ticketing initiatives etc)
Remember when it was filmed and shown before (where Burger Boy kept saying South Stand and talk about potential flats). Everyone watching suddenly reckoned themselves to be top level lawyers and expected some forensic cross-examination be carried out in the room. The reality is different. Plus sadly there are some people who can be really nasty online.
Only improvement I can see is given what was put out today, that could easily have been put out the day after the meeting.
I also agree with other sentiments that it would affect the tone of the meeting, and willingness for candid responses due to the inevitable heightened scrutiny. Its more of a partnership approach ideally than a QA tends to be, that being said it also offers deeper scrutiny as one can ask follow ups something which a much larger group might stop, and reps can build up knowledge and experience of how the club works, etc.
During more intense periods during my tenure of the takeover we did try and get a brief statement out more quickly.
Overall I think it works pretty well and I get the frustration, people just need to be a little more patient I’m afraid, that being said I will feedback on the summary issue.
Wholehearted agreement, aim was Friday for a summary, and it will be reviewed with this in mind for future forums
https://www.cafc.co.uk/club/fans/fans-forum