It isn't realistic to nationalise those two companies. Nothing wrong with working with them though to help lessen the blow which could involve favourable conditions after the crisis. Absolutely we should look to nationalise the utility companies. They should be there for their customers only.
It isn't realistic to nationalise those two companies. Nothing wrong with working with them though to help lessen the blow which could involve favourable conditions after the crisis. Absolutely we should look to nationalise the utility companies. They should be there for their customers only.
Mutley, I would ask when you see an end to this crisis ? Totally agree that we should renationlise our utilities and our Railway, although the DFT now run our railway in all but name. Inflation will drop eventually but the prices won't, this crisis is also exasperated by a Labour shortage caused in part but not all by Brexit. Sadly I see this being long term.
It isn't realistic to nationalise those two companies. Nothing wrong with working with them though to help lessen the blow which could involve favourable conditions after the crisis. Absolutely we should look to nationalise the utility companies. They should be there for their customers only.
I absolutely agree with nationalising the utility companies over the long term and subsidising bills in the mean time.
Only those who don’t understand how Shell etc operate are calling for them to be nationalised.
Put this on the other thread. Should have been done decades ago but even 10 years ago there were signs from Russia and the move towards renewables. This should have been an obvious solution.
I'm all for competition in the energy market (water is different in my view) what the government should be doing (and should have started 10 years ago) is setting up an energy firm to compete with the market. It should focus on new green and nuclear infrastructure and aim to grew to become a major supplier. This would at least give people an alternative option and would force existing companies out of their Oligopoly power and to sacrifice a small percentage of excess profits to restrict price increases.
The government can compete successfully in markets - see NEST in pensions market.
There should also be massive subsidies or even provision of domestic renewables. Every industrial unit with a large roof should have solar panels, domestic solar panels should be everywhere
Just looked at my Octopus energy app which now has a crystal ball setting which says what your monthly payments will be based on current analyst thinking. According to that my dual bill goes from c £200pcm in August to £1200pcm in Jan! In a relatively small 1930s suburbia house that is quite the jump!
Just looked at my Octopus energy app which now has a crystal ball setting which says what your monthly payments will be based on current analyst thinking. According to that my dual bill goes from c £200pcm in August to £1200pcm in Jan! In a relatively small 1930s suburbia house that is quite the jump!
Just looked at my Octopus energy app which now has a crystal ball setting which says what your monthly payments will be based on current analyst thinking. According to that my dual bill goes from c £200pcm in August to £1200pcm in Jan! In a relatively small 1930s suburbia house that is quite the jump!
Thats bonkers and no way correct. Even if I still had my old 1960's boiler which in Dec 21/Jan 22 was costing around £250 a month during the coldest spell wouldn't get to that (5 bed house).
I'd certainly be looking though at the equipment you have. I spent 8k ish on all new plumbing, boiler etc, but reckon I'm saving on average £800-£1k a year on current prices, maybe more, probably double that next year!
Radiators also, Ali one's are far far better but pricey for decent one's.
Just looked at my Octopus energy app which now has a crystal ball setting which says what your monthly payments will be based on current analyst thinking. According to that my dual bill goes from c £200pcm in August to £1200pcm in Jan! In a relatively small 1930s suburbia house that is quite the jump!
so you'll be paying £14,400 a year ? .. a lot wrong there unless your place is a multi roomed hotel or Norman castle and not a 'relatively small' pre WW2 drum
Ski thermals is my plan for this winter. Bit of heating in the morning to take the chill off and a bit in the evening. Rest of the time i'll be wrapped up
Just looked at my Octopus energy app which now has a crystal ball setting which says what your monthly payments will be based on current analyst thinking. According to that my dual bill goes from c £200pcm in August to £1200pcm in Jan! In a relatively small 1930s suburbia house that is quite the jump!
Absolutely insane, my electricity averages out at £8 a months.
Having no heating definitely help. Honestly can’t see a situation where I could move back to England.
Truss reckons she has headroom of £20 billion - if so it all needs to be used to mitigate fuel poverty this winter.
There are 28 million households in the UK - at a guess perhaps 8 million of those don't require help which leaves £1000 for the other 20 million. That together with the help already announced would go a long way to get people through the winter. It needs to be targeted help to those most vulnerable and it can't be beyond the wit of man to work out how that targeting can be achieved. The payment would be straight off the fuel bill.
An alternative would be to scrap the October and January price cap rises and cover it for the operating Companies with a combination of windfall taxes on the gas and oil producers and Government funding - but again help must be targeted.
One would hope the situation with fuel prices will begin to ease into next year, but if not we rinse and repeat.
Truss reckons she has headroom of £20 billion - if so it all needs to be used to mitigate fuel poverty this winter.
There are 28 million households in the UK - at a guess perhaps 8 million of those don't require help which leaves £1000 for the other 20 million. That together with the help already announced would go a long way to get people through the winter. It needs to be targeted help to those most vulnerable and it can't be beyond the wit of man to work out how that targeting can be achieved. The payment would be straight off the fuel bill.
An alternative would be to scrap the October and January price cap rises and cover it for the operating Companies with a combination of windfall taxes on the gas and oil producers and Government funding - but again help must be targeted.
One would hope the situation with fuel prices will begin to ease into next year, but if not we rinse and repeat.
Some might say many more lives could be saved by diverting £20 billion to the NHS and ensuring that at least people with cancer get treated promptly.
Really difficult to decide what to do with all the spare cash the government has!
Truss reckons she has headroom of £20 billion - if so it all needs to be used to mitigate fuel poverty this winter.
There are 28 million households in the UK - at a guess perhaps 8 million of those don't require help which leaves £1000 for the other 20 million. That together with the help already announced would go a long way to get people through the winter. It needs to be targeted help to those most vulnerable and it can't be beyond the wit of man to work out how that targeting can be achieved. The payment would be straight off the fuel bill.
An alternative would be to scrap the October and January price cap rises and cover it for the operating Companies with a combination of windfall taxes on the gas and oil producers and Government funding - but again help must be targeted.
One would hope the situation with fuel prices will begin to ease into next year, but if not we rinse and repeat.
Completely agree with this and I would personally be more in favour of the second option as I think the money will go further and I wouldn’t be full of confidence in how they would determine who is in need in the first method.
Starmer should now announce that Labour will nationalise all the gas and electricity companies and ensure that these type of price rises will not happen under their watch. A major vote winner in my opinion.
Apologies for getting political.
That won't necessarily help. The price rises are linked to the global wholesale prices and it is the likes of BP and Shell (the exploration companies) that are making the big profits. The operating companies like Scottish Power (my provider) are passing on the costs they are incurring. BP and Shell can sell into the global market at the prevailing price.
If the Government want to stop the price cap going up then they are going to have to subsidise the operating companies (and that's not an unreasonable thing to do) otherwise they will all go pop.
Is this a bad thing necessarily? If their business is unsustainable without causing massive, unprecedented harm to millions of households and businesses across the UK then maybe they ought not to be in business.
I'm playing devil's advocate a little but what's to stop the government soaking up those businesses that fail as the buyer of last resort and starting the process of returning our nationally important utilities into public ownership?
How much would the prices change if BP and Shell keep their prices the same?
They won’t just drop their prices because the UK gov are in charge, so the new publicly owned companies would still trade at a loss and require subsidisation.
Nationalisation Shell and BP, could, quite rightly start a war.
Do you mean like the war currently raging in France when EDF was nationalised?
EDF suing the French government for £7b after Macron forced them to sell energy at a loss. There’s your war.
Starmer should now announce that Labour will nationalise all the gas and electricity companies and ensure that these type of price rises will not happen under their watch. A major vote winner in my opinion.
Apologies for getting political.
That won't necessarily help. The price rises are linked to the global wholesale prices and it is the likes of BP and Shell (the exploration companies) that are making the big profits. The operating companies like Scottish Power (my provider) are passing on the costs they are incurring. BP and Shell can sell into the global market at the prevailing price.
If the Government want to stop the price cap going up then they are going to have to subsidise the operating companies (and that's not an unreasonable thing to do) otherwise they will all go pop.
Is this a bad thing necessarily? If their business is unsustainable without causing massive, unprecedented harm to millions of households and businesses across the UK then maybe they ought not to be in business.
I'm playing devil's advocate a little but what's to stop the government soaking up those businesses that fail as the buyer of last resort and starting the process of returning our nationally important utilities into public ownership?
How much would the prices change if BP and Shell keep their prices the same?
They won’t just drop their prices because the UK gov are in charge, so the new publicly owned companies would still trade at a loss and require subsidisation.
Nationalisation Shell and BP, could, quite rightly start a war.
Do you mean like the war currently raging in France when EDF was nationalised?
EDF suing the French government for £7b after Macron forced them to sell energy at a loss. There’s your war.
Starmer should now announce that Labour will nationalise all the gas and electricity companies and ensure that these type of price rises will not happen under their watch. A major vote winner in my opinion.
Apologies for getting political.
That won't necessarily help. The price rises are linked to the global wholesale prices and it is the likes of BP and Shell (the exploration companies) that are making the big profits. The operating companies like Scottish Power (my provider) are passing on the costs they are incurring. BP and Shell can sell into the global market at the prevailing price.
If the Government want to stop the price cap going up then they are going to have to subsidise the operating companies (and that's not an unreasonable thing to do) otherwise they will all go pop.
Is this a bad thing necessarily? If their business is unsustainable without causing massive, unprecedented harm to millions of households and businesses across the UK then maybe they ought not to be in business.
I'm playing devil's advocate a little but what's to stop the government soaking up those businesses that fail as the buyer of last resort and starting the process of returning our nationally important utilities into public ownership?
How much would the prices change if BP and Shell keep their prices the same?
They won’t just drop their prices because the UK gov are in charge, so the new publicly owned companies would still trade at a loss and require subsidisation.
Nationalisation Shell and BP, could, quite rightly start a war.
Do you mean like the war currently raging in France when EDF was nationalised?
EDF suing the French government for £7b after Macron forced them to sell energy at a loss. There’s your war.
Starmer should now announce that Labour will nationalise all the gas and electricity companies and ensure that these type of price rises will not happen under their watch. A major vote winner in my opinion.
Apologies for getting political.
That won't necessarily help. The price rises are linked to the global wholesale prices and it is the likes of BP and Shell (the exploration companies) that are making the big profits. The operating companies like Scottish Power (my provider) are passing on the costs they are incurring. BP and Shell can sell into the global market at the prevailing price.
If the Government want to stop the price cap going up then they are going to have to subsidise the operating companies (and that's not an unreasonable thing to do) otherwise they will all go pop.
Is this a bad thing necessarily? If their business is unsustainable without causing massive, unprecedented harm to millions of households and businesses across the UK then maybe they ought not to be in business.
I'm playing devil's advocate a little but what's to stop the government soaking up those businesses that fail as the buyer of last resort and starting the process of returning our nationally important utilities into public ownership?
How much would the prices change if BP and Shell keep their prices the same?
They won’t just drop their prices because the UK gov are in charge, so the new publicly owned companies would still trade at a loss and require subsidisation.
Nationalisation Shell and BP, could, quite rightly start a war.
Do you mean like the war currently raging in France when EDF was nationalised?
EDF suing the French government for £7b after Macron forced them to sell energy at a loss. There’s your war.
Not my definition but hey ho
I've heard that the lawyers EDF are using are renowned for their keyboard warrior skills.
Instead of giving handouts to help pay our bills why don’t the government do what they’ve failed to do and invest in green energy for the future which they’ve insisted on.By putting solar panels on every house in the country. We then have a nationalised green energy company.
Starmer should now announce that Labour will nationalise all the gas and electricity companies and ensure that these type of price rises will not happen under their watch. A major vote winner in my opinion.
Apologies for getting political.
That won't necessarily help. The price rises are linked to the global wholesale prices and it is the likes of BP and Shell (the exploration companies) that are making the big profits. The operating companies like Scottish Power (my provider) are passing on the costs they are incurring. BP and Shell can sell into the global market at the prevailing price.
If the Government want to stop the price cap going up then they are going to have to subsidise the operating companies (and that's not an unreasonable thing to do) otherwise they will all go pop.
Is this a bad thing necessarily? If their business is unsustainable without causing massive, unprecedented harm to millions of households and businesses across the UK then maybe they ought not to be in business.
I'm playing devil's advocate a little but what's to stop the government soaking up those businesses that fail as the buyer of last resort and starting the process of returning our nationally important utilities into public ownership?
How much would the prices change if BP and Shell keep their prices the same?
They won’t just drop their prices because the UK gov are in charge, so the new publicly owned companies would still trade at a loss and require subsidisation.
Nationalisation Shell and BP, could, quite rightly start a war.
Do you mean like the war currently raging in France when EDF was nationalised?
EDF suing the French government for £7b after Macron forced them to sell energy at a loss. There’s your war.
So no war then? Got it.
Also zero similarities between BP and EDF, a ridiculous comparison.
BP and Shell are off the table for nationalisation, suspect the utility retailers will end up like RBS and be state majority owned by the end of the winter.
BP and Shell are off the table for nationalisation, suspect the utility retailers will end up like RBS and be state majority owned by the end of the winter.
I fear that process will be too slow, they need to start now and give help in the meantime.
With the real potential of there being 'fuel' shortages this winter/January, maybe the government are foreseeing that and hoping people use less (because they can't afford to)...........
I think the standing charges are a nonsense. Roll that cost into unit fuel prices and do away with standing charges altogether. This would increase the incentive to use less energy and help those who do.
Instead of giving handouts to help pay our bills why don’t the government do what they’ve failed to do and invest in green energy for the future which they’ve insisted on.By putting solar panels on every house in the country. We then have a nationalised green energy company.
Solid idea, but they should have done that years ago. It's too late now to help this fuel price crisis.
Comments
Only those who don’t understand how Shell etc operate are calling for them to be nationalised.
I'm all for competition in the energy market (water is different in my view) what the government should be doing (and should have started 10 years ago) is setting up an energy firm to compete with the market. It should focus on new green and nuclear infrastructure and aim to grew to become a major supplier. This would at least give people an alternative option and would force existing companies out of their Oligopoly power and to sacrifice a small percentage of excess profits to restrict price increases.
The government can compete successfully in markets - see NEST in pensions market.
There should also be massive subsidies or even provision of domestic renewables. Every industrial unit with a large roof should have solar panels, domestic solar panels should be everywhere
I'd certainly be looking though at the equipment you have. I spent 8k ish on all new plumbing, boiler etc, but reckon I'm saving on average £800-£1k a year on current prices, maybe more, probably double that next year!
Radiators also, Ali one's are far far better but pricey for decent one's.
There are 28 million households in the UK - at a guess perhaps 8 million of those don't require help which leaves £1000 for the other 20 million. That together with the help already announced would go a long way to get people through the winter. It needs to be targeted help to those most vulnerable and it can't be beyond the wit of man to work out how that targeting can be achieved. The payment would be straight off the fuel bill.
An alternative would be to scrap the October and January price cap rises and cover it for the operating Companies with a combination of windfall taxes on the gas and oil producers and Government funding - but again help must be targeted.
One would hope the situation with fuel prices will begin to ease into next year, but if not we rinse and repeat.
Really difficult to decide what to do with all the spare cash the government has!
Could get very nasty.