It looks pretty clear that they are not seeking public support. Whatever the motivation, they are doing it (the road blockages) because they can. It isn’t even that new or rare, I recall a time when black cab drivers were able to bring the roads around Westminster to a deadlocked halt because of a grievance, and St Thomas Hospital is just across the river.
Well, if they are not seeking public support & are truly wanting the Government to take notice then why protest on the South & North circulars (I heard the Hanger Lane giratory has been targeted today as well) when they could easily go to Manchester where the CONSERVATIVE PARTY CONFERENCE is taking place. That would have a bigger impact AND more media coverage. I bet you the first item on all UK mainstream news today will be about the Tory conference and therefore protesting there would get a much wider audience.
I guarantee that if they protested at the conference, the Police response would be huge and violent - they would react completely differently compared to how they handle matters when poor old Joe Public are inconvenienced
Isn't that much better PR for the protesters though? "Police heavy handed tactics outside Tory conference" as opposed to what we are seeing here?
I haven't seen one person anywhere be remotely supportive to the protesters, at all. And that is quite unusual and shows they really don't have public support, which you need for the protest to be successful, don't you?
It looks pretty clear that they are not seeking public support. Whatever the motivation, they are doing it (the road blockages) because they can. It isn’t even that new or rare, I recall a time when black cab drivers were able to bring the roads around Westminster to a deadlocked halt because of a grievance, and St Thomas Hospital is just across the river.
Well, if they are not seeking public support & are truly wanting the Government to take notice then why protest on the South & North circulars (I heard the Hanger Lane giratory has been targeted today as well) when they could easily go to Manchester where the CONSERVATIVE PARTY CONFERENCE is taking place. That would have a bigger impact AND more media coverage. I bet you the first item on all UK mainstream news today will be about the Tory conference and therefore protesting there would get a much wider audience.
I guarantee that if they protested at the conference, the Police response would be huge and violent - they would react completely differently compared to how they handle matters when poor old Joe Public are inconvenienced
Isn't that much better PR for the protesters though? "Police heavy handed tactics outside Tory conference" as opposed to what we are seeing here?
I haven't seen one person anywhere be remotely supportive to the protesters, at all. And that is quite unusual and shows they really don't have public support, which you need for the protest to be successful, don't you?
Absolutely agree - but I was kind of coming from the angle that it’s one rule for the establishment, and one for Joe Public - if they do it again, then the footage we have seen of people dragging them out of the way will become footage of people attacking them, because people have had enough - that poor lady trying to get to Canterbury to see her mum who had been taken to hospital - I know if that had been me, I would have snapped and waded into the protestors, and I would end up on a more serious charge than the protestors would get
If their so concerned about the planet why don't they go to China where pollution is churning out on a greater scale than motorists over here. They can park their back sides directly outside the state council in Beijing. I'm sure the peoples red army will make sure they are looked after and accept their protests.
If their so concerned about the planet why don't they go to China where pollution is churning out on a greater scale than motorists over here. They can park their back sides directly outside the state council in Beijing. I'm sure the peoples red army will make sure they are looked after and accept their protests.
If their so concerned about the planet why don't they go to China where pollution is churning out on a greater scale than motorists over here. They can park their back sides directly outside the state council in Beijing. I'm sure the peoples red army will make sure they are looked after and accept their protests.
I've heard that the Red Army's tea and sandwiches are not up to standard.
Honestly I really do suspect some measure of black ops here. Run the most unpopular protest campaign ever, leading to a severe government crackdown, setting a precedent for future protests. I know, never ascribe to malice what can be explained by stupidity, but...
I don't really agree but...
I try and imagine these guys sitting round a table after the last demonstration and saying 'we pissed off everyone there - what say we give it another go in a different part of London in a couple of weeks?' I mean genuinely, you sit down with your set of things you are aiming for, and the check list of achievements and read: Government decisions influenced - some, but in the opposite direction required Members of the public in favour of our protests - none General raising of profile - yes, but in hugely negative sense. Potential sympathisers turned away in droves - too many to count Apathetic or contrary opinions swayed by the tactics - none
You read that and try to see who thought another dose of road blocks would be a good start. I often say Charlton Life isn't a hugely representative slice of society, but try as I might, I can't see people stuck in pointless traffic chaos getting out of the vehicle witha big thumbs up and yelling 'good on you guys, the end justifies the means, and I'm happy to be sat in a jam losing pay so that insulation takes place'. There is no sustainable arguement that would convince me that this protest is anything other than a disaster for those involved, which begs the question, who is suggesting this, and why do they listen to whoever it is?
I'm just baffled. Literally no one has come out in support, everyone thinks they are either complete arseholes and /or idiots. If they actually cared about their cause they would be far better changing tactics because at this point they are actively turning people against them.
I don't see how this does anyone any good at all, them least of all.
They are deliberately targeting ordinary members of the public. I'm convinced that their MO is for one such member of the public to properly lose their rag and either clump one of the idiots or run him/her over. That way, they get maximum exposure.
With all the other shit that’s been going on around the UK in recent times, these people need to be shipped off to a remote island with no clothes on where they can protest all they want.
By all means, stand up for what you believe in but whoever has responsibility for organising their method of action are c**** of the highest order.
I'm just baffled. Literally no one has come out in support, everyone thinks they are either complete arseholes and /or idiots. If they actually cared about their cause they would be far better changing tactics because at this point they are actively turning people against them.
I don't see how this does anyone any good at all, them least of all.
In psychology a person who has a martyr complex, sometimes associated with the term "victim complex", desires the feeling of being a martyr for their own sake, seeking out suffering or persecution because it either feeds a psychical need or a desire to avoid responsibility.Wikipedia
Just my humble view but I really do find it disheartening at all of the disdain, animosity and hate that is poured on these protesters when it really should be directed at the corporations that cause 70% of global emissions or the unsustainable capitalist system that necessitates constant economic growth. If more people directed their energy at the cause of these protests rather than the symptoms then it’s possible that protests like this wouldn’t be needed. We have to realise that there is no planet B and all of our lives, and those of our children and grandchildren will be threatened if we ( and it is a ‘we’ situation) don’t collectively do something. It’s easy to piss and moan but much harder to change.
But that is the crux of the matter. All the while people perceive vehicle pollution, global warming, loss of biodiversity, species extinction, etc, etc to be the problem, the real issue is being almost totally ignored.
It is little to do with corporations or "the unsustainable capitalist system". Frankly, there are just TOO MANY FUCKING (literally) PEOPLE. Until we get population expansion under control we are merely papering over the cracks. If only Greta Thunberg's parents had taken my lead, done their bit for the planet and not produced any offspring:. The world would already be one small step closer to safety.
Just my humble view but I really do find it disheartening at all of the disdain, animosity and hate that is poured on these protesters when it really should be directed at the corporations that cause 70% of global emissions or the unsustainable capitalist system that necessitates constant economic growth. If more people directed their energy at the cause of these protests rather than the symptoms then it’s possible that protests like this wouldn’t be needed. We have to realise that there is no planet B and all of our lives, and those of our children and grandchildren will be threatened if we ( and it is a ‘we’ situation) don’t collectively do something. It’s easy to piss and moan but much harder to change.
But that is the crux of the matter. All the while people perceive vehicle pollution, global warming, loss of biodiversity, species extinction, etc, etc to be the problem, the real issue is being almost totally ignored.
It is little to do with corporations or "the unsustainable capitalist system". Frankly, there are just TOO MANY FUCKING (literally) PEOPLE. Until we get population expansion under control we are merely papering over the cracks. If only Greta Thunberg's parents had taken my lead, done their bit for the planet and not produced any offspring:. The world would already be one small step closer to safety.
Funny, because in some parts of the world , like Japan & China, population growth is not enough & soon there will be too many old people retiring & not enough young people still in work ......meaning their economies are going to suffer.
And by the way.....I doubt a little bit of loft insulation is going to counteract the major pollution that is going on in the US, China and India !
If there is gridlock in central London, like one caused by black cab drivers in the past, the ripple effect of the congestion flows back through many streets. Not everybody trying to get through to, for example St Thomases, are going to be in an ambulance. The cabbies have the power to bring central London to a standstill, and these foolish protestors have today the power to bring the Blackwall tunnel to a standstill.
If there is gridlock in central London, like one caused by black cab drivers in the past, the ripple effect of the congestion flows back through many streets. Not everybody trying to get through to, for example St Thomases, are going to be in an ambulance. The cabbies have the power to bring central London to a standstill, and these foolish protestors have today the power to bring the Blackwall tunnel to a standstill.
Who are you excusing or apologising for now ?
I’m what sense have my posts excused or apologised for anything?
If there is gridlock in central London, like one caused by black cab drivers in the past, the ripple effect of the congestion flows back through many streets. Not everybody trying to get through to, for example St Thomases, are going to be in an ambulance. The cabbies have the power to bring central London to a standstill, and these foolish protestors have today the power to bring the Blackwall tunnel to a standstill.
Who are you excusing or apologising for now ?
Err, which bit are you reading? Or are we doing imaginary writing now?
Just my humble view but I really do find it disheartening at all of the disdain, animosity and hate that is poured on these protesters when it really should be directed at the corporations that cause 70% of global emissions or the unsustainable capitalist system that necessitates constant economic growth. If more people directed their energy at the cause of these protests rather than the symptoms then it’s possible that protests like this wouldn’t be needed. We have to realise that there is no planet B and all of our lives, and those of our children and grandchildren will be threatened if we ( and it is a ‘we’ situation) don’t collectively do something. It’s easy to piss and moan but much harder to change.
But that is the crux of the matter. All the while people perceive vehicle pollution, global warming, loss of biodiversity, species extinction, etc, etc to be the problem, the real issue is being almost totally ignored.
It is little to do with corporations or "the unsustainable capitalist system". Frankly, there are just TOO MANY FUCKING (literally) PEOPLE. Until we get population expansion under control we are merely papering over the cracks. If only Greta Thunberg's parents had taken my lead, done their bit for the planet and not produced any offspring:. The world would already be one small step closer to safety.
There is enough to go around for everyone, overpopulation is a myth. The vast majority of emissions are done by a tiny majority of people. Richer nations on average produce far far far more carbon emissions than poorer nations, even if they are more populous.
What needs to happen is less is consumed in the richer nations. I hate it so much that people think the issue is overpopulation rather than overconsumption, seems on the edge of racism/white supremacy to me
Just my humble view but I really do find it disheartening at all of the disdain, animosity and hate that is poured on these protesters when it really should be directed at the corporations that cause 70% of global emissions or the unsustainable capitalist system that necessitates constant economic growth. If more people directed their energy at the cause of these protests rather than the symptoms then it’s possible that protests like this wouldn’t be needed. We have to realise that there is no planet B and all of our lives, and those of our children and grandchildren will be threatened if we ( and it is a ‘we’ situation) don’t collectively do something. It’s easy to piss and moan but much harder to change.
But that is the crux of the matter. All the while people perceive vehicle pollution, global warming, loss of biodiversity, species extinction, etc, etc to be the problem, the real issue is being almost totally ignored.
It is little to do with corporations or "the unsustainable capitalist system". Frankly, there are just TOO MANY FUCKING (literally) PEOPLE. Until we get population expansion under control we are merely papering over the cracks. If only Greta Thunberg's parents had taken my lead, done their bit for the planet and not produced any offspring:. The world would already be one small step closer to safety.
There is enough to go around for everyone, overpopulation is a myth. The vast majority of emissions are done by a tiny majority of people. Richer nations on average produce far far far more carbon emissions than poorer nations, even if they are more populous.
What needs to happen is less is consumed in the richer nations. I hate it so much that people think the issue is overpopulation rather than overconsumption, seems on the edge of racism/white supremacy to me
Do you think all those extra billions of people in poorer less polluting nations will just accept their environmentally friendlier lot in life? Of course you don't but you did get to burnish your sanctimony and that's the important thing.
Just my humble view but I really do find it disheartening at all of the disdain, animosity and hate that is poured on these protesters when it really should be directed at the corporations that cause 70% of global emissions or the unsustainable capitalist system that necessitates constant economic growth. If more people directed their energy at the cause of these protests rather than the symptoms then it’s possible that protests like this wouldn’t be needed. We have to realise that there is no planet B and all of our lives, and those of our children and grandchildren will be threatened if we ( and it is a ‘we’ situation) don’t collectively do something. It’s easy to piss and moan but much harder to change.
But that is the crux of the matter. All the while people perceive vehicle pollution, global warming, loss of biodiversity, species extinction, etc, etc to be the problem, the real issue is being almost totally ignored.
It is little to do with corporations or "the unsustainable capitalist system". Frankly, there are just TOO MANY FUCKING (literally) PEOPLE. Until we get population expansion under control we are merely papering over the cracks. If only Greta Thunberg's parents had taken my lead, done their bit for the planet and not produced any offspring:. The world would already be one small step closer to safety.
There is enough to go around for everyone, overpopulation is a myth. The vast majority of emissions are done by a tiny majority of people. Richer nations on average produce far far far more carbon emissions than poorer nations, even if they are more populous.
What needs to happen is less is consumed in the richer nations. I hate it so much that people think the issue is overpopulation rather than overconsumption, seems on the edge of racism/white supremacy to me
Do you think all those extra billions of people in poorer less polluting nations will just accept their environmentally friendlier lot in life? Of course you don't but you did get to burnish your sanctimony and that's the important thing.
No I don't think they should, my point is just that richer countries should consume less before saying "stop having babies"
The issue is unregulated consumption fueled by our economic system which prioritises economic growth before anything else.
A large human population undoubtedly contributes to the problem, but short of genocide on a truly epic scale, what can be done about this in the short-to-medium term? Surely the other approach - somehow forcing corporations and wealthy countries to slash emissions - is less...evil? Besides, even if we wiped out billions of (doubtless poor and generally non-contributory to global emissions) people, would the resource exploiters really ease back? Would the oil stop getting burnt? I too hate the overpopulation argument. There's no good way of enforcing it, and while I'd say that calling it white supremacy is a bit much (given some of the countries that stand to benefit from not concentrating on reducing emissions) it isn't far off.
How do you 'cure' overpopulation humanely in the short-to-medium term?
Comments
I haven't seen one person anywhere be remotely supportive to the protesters, at all. And that is quite unusual and shows they really don't have public support, which you need for the protest to be successful, don't you?
Laughable ain't it?
I am sure some nubbin will come along and defend them soon.
I try and imagine these guys sitting round a table after the last demonstration and saying 'we pissed off everyone there - what say we give it another go in a different part of London in a couple of weeks?' I mean genuinely, you sit down with your set of things you are aiming for, and the check list of achievements and read:
Government decisions influenced - some, but in the opposite direction required
Members of the public in favour of our protests - none
General raising of profile - yes, but in hugely negative sense.
Potential sympathisers turned away in droves - too many to count
Apathetic or contrary opinions swayed by the tactics - none
You read that and try to see who thought another dose of road blocks would be a good start. I often say Charlton Life isn't a hugely representative slice of society, but try as I might, I can't see people stuck in pointless traffic chaos getting out of the vehicle witha big thumbs up and yelling 'good on you guys, the end justifies the means, and I'm happy to be sat in a jam losing pay so that insulation takes place'. There is no sustainable arguement that would convince me that this protest is anything other than a disaster for those involved, which begs the question, who is suggesting this, and why do they listen to whoever it is?
I don't see how this does anyone any good at all, them least of all.
With all the other shit that’s been going on around the UK in recent times, these people need to be shipped off to a remote island with no clothes on where they can protest all they want.
By all means, stand up for what you believe in but whoever has responsibility for organising their method of action are c**** of the highest order.
It is little to do with corporations or "the unsustainable capitalist system". Frankly, there are just TOO MANY FUCKING (literally) PEOPLE. Until we get population expansion under control we are merely papering over the cracks. If only Greta Thunberg's parents had taken my lead, done their bit for the planet and not produced any offspring:. The world would already be one small step closer to safety.
Get this sorted or we are all going to hell in a hand cart. https://www.worldometers.info/world-population/
And by the way.....I doubt a little bit of loft insulation is going to counteract the major pollution that is going on in the US, China and India !
I think we should grant them their wish.
What needs to happen is less is consumed in the richer nations. I hate it so much that people think the issue is overpopulation rather than overconsumption, seems on the edge of racism/white supremacy to me
The issue is unregulated consumption fueled by our economic system which prioritises economic growth before anything else.
Apologies.
How do you 'cure' overpopulation humanely in the short-to-medium term?