Refereeing is a tough job. Sometimes you have to remind the players that even after improved health care, education and access to contraceptives there's a generational lag that doesn't mean birth rates drop for many decades, and in fact, lowered infant mortality means in the short term increased population increase, and therefore slowing let alone reversing human population growth is not a feasible medium-term solution to the problem of overconsumption. This tends to make you very unpopular with fans
Referees are well within their rights to allow for a long-term global living standards goal alongside severe penalisation of pollution and habitat destruction in the short term, however
I'm glad @Weegie Addick said it first as a lady. You look at demographics where the girls are educated and the birth rates plummet. So you want to reduce population growth, educate the ladies
Today's demo showed the brainless nature of these protesters. Which emphasises the fact they have not asked themselves what are the polution consequences of there plan to insulate 15 million homes. Ask your selves how will this insulation material be made. Does need mining does it need chemical processes to make with consequential polution. How much energy to processes how much energy to transport to 15 million individual residences. What are the waste issues at the lifetime end of the building. But hey let's not think let's just anger people.
Just my humble view but I really do find it disheartening at all of the disdain, animosity and hate that is poured on these protesters when it really should be directed at the corporations that cause 70% of global emissions or the unsustainable capitalist system that necessitates constant economic growth. If more people directed their energy at the cause of these protests rather than the symptoms then it’s possible that protests like this wouldn’t be needed. We have to realise that there is no planet B and all of our lives, and those of our children and grandchildren will be threatened if we ( and it is a ‘we’ situation) don’t collectively do something. It’s easy to piss and moan but much harder to change.
But that is the crux of the matter. All the while people perceive vehicle pollution, global warming, loss of biodiversity, species extinction, etc, etc to be the problem, the real issue is being almost totally ignored.
It is little to do with corporations or "the unsustainable capitalist system". Frankly, there are just TOO MANY FUCKING (literally) PEOPLE. Until we get population expansion under control we are merely papering over the cracks. If only Greta Thunberg's parents had taken my lead, done their bit for the planet and not produced any offspring:. The world would already be one small step closer to safety.
There is enough to go around for everyone, overpopulation is a myth. The vast majority of emissions are done by a tiny majority of people. Richer nations on average produce far far far more carbon emissions than poorer nations, even if they are more populous.
What needs to happen is less is consumed in the richer nations. I hate it so much that people think the issue is overpopulation rather than overconsumption, seems on the edge of racism/white supremacy to me
I think you are wrong and to suggest my comment was racist is purile. The whole point is that if population growth continues at anything like the current rate there will be insufficient food and water for the people least likely to be able to cope with those problems. As others have mentioned noble charities like Population Matters are hoping to redress the balance before we all kill ourselves by uncontrolled breeding.
They key to this though is ending poverty. As poverty rates fall birth rates reduce as people make other life choices. The average number of children in a family falls as well. There is significant research that shows the best way to reduce population growth (not reduce population) is to pull people out of poverty. This alone wont save the planet but tackling the consumption side as well as forcing large corporations to be better will also help.
I still feel there is a technological solution to this that hasnt yet been found. We need to fund R&D properly in order to survive.
The key as far as I understand it, is actually educating girls / women - a key driver in reducing both poverty and population growth.
What about educating boys/men too?
I think we are talking places in the world where educating males is pretty commonplace but educating females in rare so their only option in life is children/motherhood.
Educate girls, bring them out of poverty, give them opportunities in life, the birth rate falls.
Referees are well within their rights to allow for a long-term global living standards goal alongside severe penalisation of pollution and habitat destruction in the short term, however
This is what I was getting at in my original post on it. Its part of the bigger picture longer term solution along with many other things (including reduced consumption, technological solutions, government action and penalties for corporations that pollute etc.)
Equally the impacts can be pretty immediate and we are always talking about third world developing countries. Pulling people out of relative poverty in the UK can make massive changes to the birth rate in a single generation. I can see examples of this in my own family. Only my mums generation (she's in her late 50s) where her and her siblings didn't attend school very much because their parents weren't that engaged, or because they chose to work on the farm instead or because the responsibility of looking after younger siblings meant you couldn't. My mum left school early with no qualifications. With 4 kids she is the one of her 10 siblings with the (joint) lowest number of kids. Yet with my generation the majority of my cousins either don't want kids or have 1/2 kids.
Just my humble view but I really do find it disheartening at all of the disdain, animosity and hate that is poured on these protesters when it really should be directed at the corporations that cause 70% of global emissions or the unsustainable capitalist system that necessitates constant economic growth. If more people directed their energy at the cause of these protests rather than the symptoms then it’s possible that protests like this wouldn’t be needed. We have to realise that there is no planet B and all of our lives, and those of our children and grandchildren will be threatened if we ( and it is a ‘we’ situation) don’t collectively do something. It’s easy to piss and moan but much harder to change.
But that is the crux of the matter. All the while people perceive vehicle pollution, global warming, loss of biodiversity, species extinction, etc, etc to be the problem, the real issue is being almost totally ignored.
It is little to do with corporations or "the unsustainable capitalist system". Frankly, there are just TOO MANY FUCKING (literally) PEOPLE. Until we get population expansion under control we are merely papering over the cracks. If only Greta Thunberg's parents had taken my lead, done their bit for the planet and not produced any offspring:. The world would already be one small step closer to safety.
There is enough to go around for everyone, overpopulation is a myth. The vast majority of emissions are done by a tiny majority of people. Richer nations on average produce far far far more carbon emissions than poorer nations, even if they are more populous.
What needs to happen is less is consumed in the richer nations. I hate it so much that people think the issue is overpopulation rather than overconsumption, seems on the edge of racism/white supremacy to me
I think you are wrong and to suggest my comment was racist is purile. The whole point is that if population growth continues at anything like the current rate there will be insufficient food and water for the people least likely to be able to cope with those problems. As others have mentioned noble charities like Population Matters are hoping to redress the balance before we all kill ourselves by uncontrolled breeding.
I didn't mean your comment was racist. The idea of overpopulation skirts the line in my opinion, as a lot of the discourse around it centres on African and Asian places where a ton of people are born into poverty, who aren't the people that are causing the issue.
As I said, there's enough to go around for everyone in a more sustainable manner
If their so concerned about the planet why don't they go to China where pollution is churning out on a greater scale than motorists over here. They can park their back sides directly outside the state council in Beijing. I'm sure the peoples red army will make sure they are looked after and accept their protests.
Probably because they live in England.
Precisely, anyone else but this country probably would not tolerate this week after week.
We don’t tolerate it, they get moved and arrested as soon as the OB turn up.
Do they ? From what I saw on the news this evening the OB were just stood there, in a line, acting as some sort of barrier between the protesters & the road users.
As a pp said up thread.....if a few CAFC fans did this on the way / way back from a match on a Sat afternoon I bet the OB wouldn't be idly standing around for hours on end just waiting for me to go home to my cucumber sandwiches.
If their so concerned about the planet why don't they go to China where pollution is churning out on a greater scale than motorists over here. They can park their back sides directly outside the state council in Beijing. I'm sure the peoples red army will make sure they are looked after and accept their protests.
Or, one of the several countries polluting more than China, a country that currently facing severe power blackouts as it tries to reduce its own reliance on coal.
The list from Stu's link. Got to say I'm astounded Germany and France are in there. It comes across to me as though they are leading the way when it comes to lowering emissions.
A little surprised to see Canada there too, but not Russia
If their so concerned about the planet why don't they go to China where pollution is churning out on a greater scale than motorists over here. They can park their back sides directly outside the state council in Beijing. I'm sure the peoples red army will make sure they are looked after and accept their protests.
Probably because they live in England.
Precisely, anyone else but this country probably would not tolerate this week after week.
We don’t tolerate it, they get moved and arrested as soon as the OB turn up.
Do they ? From what I saw on the news this evening the OB were just stood there, in a line, acting as some sort of barrier between the protesters & the road users.
As a pp said up thread.....if a few CAFC fans did this on the way / way back from a match on a Sat afternoon I bet the OB wouldn't be idly standing around for hours on end just waiting for me to go home to my cucumber sandwiches.
I’d imagine they warn them to move before rightly moving in and arresting them. They’ve made 38 arrests I believe. So despite what the angry think we don’t tolerate it, not since they had an injunction granted against them.
The list from Stu's link. Got to say I'm astounded Germany and France are in there. It comes across to me as though they are leading the way when it comes to lowering emissions.
A little surprised to see Canada there too, but not Russia
I’m not that surprised Germany are in there, they actually have a manufacturing sector.
The list from Stu's link. Got to say I'm astounded Germany and France are in there. It comes across to me as though they are leading the way when it comes to lowering emissions.
A little surprised to see Canada there too, but not Russia
I’m not that surprised Germany are in there, they actually have a manufacturing sector.
Where are the UK on the list?
This, their exports are massive. This is exactly what I’d expected to see, a mixture of exporting powerhouses and countries that simply don’t give a shit.
Just my humble view but I really do find it disheartening at all of the disdain, animosity and hate that is poured on these protesters when it really should be directed at the corporations that cause 70% of global emissions or the unsustainable capitalist system that necessitates constant economic growth. If more people directed their energy at the cause of these protests rather than the symptoms then it’s possible that protests like this wouldn’t be needed. We have to realise that there is no planet B and all of our lives, and those of our children and grandchildren will be threatened if we ( and it is a ‘we’ situation) don’t collectively do something. It’s easy to piss and moan but much harder to change.
But that is the crux of the matter. All the while people perceive vehicle pollution, global warming, loss of biodiversity, species extinction, etc, etc to be the problem, the real issue is being almost totally ignored.
It is little to do with corporations or "the unsustainable capitalist system". Frankly, there are just TOO MANY FUCKING (literally) PEOPLE. Until we get population expansion under control we are merely papering over the cracks. If only Greta Thunberg's parents had taken my lead, done their bit for the planet and not produced any offspring:. The world would already be one small step closer to safety.
There is enough to go around for everyone, overpopulation is a myth. The vast majority of emissions are done by a tiny majority of people. Richer nations on average produce far far far more carbon emissions than poorer nations, even if they are more populous.
What needs to happen is less is consumed in the richer nations. I hate it so much that people think the issue is overpopulation rather than overconsumption, seems on the edge of racism/white supremacy to me
I think you are wrong and to suggest my comment was racist is purile. The whole point is that if population growth continues at anything like the current rate there will be insufficient food and water for the people least likely to be able to cope with those problems. As others have mentioned noble charities like Population Matters are hoping to redress the balance before we all kill ourselves by uncontrolled breeding.
They key to this though is ending poverty. As poverty rates fall birth rates reduce as people make other life choices. The average number of children in a family falls as well. There is significant research that shows the best way to reduce population growth (not reduce population) is to pull people out of poverty. This alone wont save the planet but tackling the consumption side as well as forcing large corporations to be better will also help.
I still feel there is a technological solution to this that hasnt yet been found. We need to fund R&D properly in order to survive.
The key as far as I understand it, is actually educating girls / women - a key driver in reducing both poverty and population growth.
What about educating boys/men too?
Will that stop the protesting at the End of the Road?
The list from Stu's link. Got to say I'm astounded Germany and France are in there. It comes across to me as though they are leading the way when it comes to lowering emissions.
A little surprised to see Canada there too, but not Russia
I’m not that surprised Germany are in there, they actually have a manufacturing sector.
Where are the UK on the list?
Okay, but I still find it surprising that France and Germany are on there, but Russia, India and Poland etc aren't. These figures are per capita. Reckon the list would be different if it was total amounts released
The list from Stu's link. Got to say I'm astounded Germany and France are in there. It comes across to me as though they are leading the way when it comes to lowering emissions.
A little surprised to see Canada there too, but not Russia
I’m not that surprised Germany are in there, they actually have a manufacturing sector.
Where are the UK on the list?
Okay, but I still find it surprising that France and Germany are on there, but Russia, India and Poland etc aren't. These figures are per capita. Reckon the list would be different if it was total amounts released
Hugely different and it’s hard to decide which metric is the ‘fairest’. Had always seemed harsh that developing countries get blamed for the current situation, often by people from countries that are reaping the benefits of having had their own industrial revolution decades ago. “It’s a wonderful club, but you can’t join”
Sadly a very complex situation that will probably never be solved.
Just my humble view but I really do find it disheartening at all of the disdain, animosity and hate that is poured on these protesters when it really should be directed at the corporations that cause 70% of global emissions or the unsustainable capitalist system that necessitates constant economic growth. If more people directed their energy at the cause of these protests rather than the symptoms then it’s possible that protests like this wouldn’t be needed. We have to realise that there is no planet B and all of our lives, and those of our children and grandchildren will be threatened if we ( and it is a ‘we’ situation) don’t collectively do something. It’s easy to piss and moan but much harder to change.
But that is the crux of the matter. All the while people perceive vehicle pollution, global warming, loss of biodiversity, species extinction, etc, etc to be the problem, the real issue is being almost totally ignored.
It is little to do with corporations or "the unsustainable capitalist system". Frankly, there are just TOO MANY FUCKING (literally) PEOPLE. Until we get population expansion under control we are merely papering over the cracks. If only Greta Thunberg's parents had taken my lead, done their bit for the planet and not produced any offspring:. The world would already be one small step closer to safety.
There is enough to go around for everyone, overpopulation is a myth. The vast majority of emissions are done by a tiny majority of people. Richer nations on average produce far far far more carbon emissions than poorer nations, even if they are more populous.
What needs to happen is less is consumed in the richer nations. I hate it so much that people think the issue is overpopulation rather than overconsumption, seems on the edge of racism/white supremacy to me
I think you are wrong and to suggest my comment was racist is purile. The whole point is that if population growth continues at anything like the current rate there will be insufficient food and water for the people least likely to be able to cope with those problems. As others have mentioned noble charities like Population Matters are hoping to redress the balance before we all kill ourselves by uncontrolled breeding.
They key to this though is ending poverty. As poverty rates fall birth rates reduce as people make other life choices. The average number of children in a family falls as well. There is significant research that shows the best way to reduce population growth (not reduce population) is to pull people out of poverty. This alone wont save the planet but tackling the consumption side as well as forcing large corporations to be better will also help.
I still feel there is a technological solution to this that hasnt yet been found. We need to fund R&D properly in order to survive.
The key as far as I understand it, is actually educating girls / women - a key driver in reducing both poverty and population growth.
What about educating boys/men too?
I think we are talking places in the world where educating males is pretty commonplace but educating females in rare so their only option in life is children/motherhood.
Educate girls, bring them out of poverty, give them opportunities in life, the birth rate falls.
Exactly, thank you. My comment was based on my own experience as a consultant to UNICEF many years ago and more recent reports highlighting it as an ongoing issue.
The list from Stu's link. Got to say I'm astounded Germany and France are in there. It comes across to me as though they are leading the way when it comes to lowering emissions.
A little surprised to see Canada there too, but not Russia
I’m not that surprised Germany are in there, they actually have a manufacturing sector.
Where are the UK on the list?
Okay, but I still find it surprising that France and Germany are on there, but Russia, India and Poland etc aren't. These figures are per capita. Reckon the list would be different if it was total amounts released
Of course - India has about 15 times the population of Germany! I don’t think it’s a case of not releasing that data, it’s just not what this particular table is showing, if you want to see total amounts I’m sure that’s out there.
I would imagine getting accurate (or any) data from some countries would be part of the challenge.
My understanding is that China are investing in huge solar farms in places like the Gobi desert. Yes China is frequently cited as the worlds worst polluter in these debates, but not Canada or Germany for example. In China they are not in denial, indeed they have done things like restricted car travel in Beijing (odd and even number plates on different days) in the past. Climate change will affect China like everywhere else and the authorities there know that, even if their response could be better. It is a current trope to blame China for almost everything. Google ‘how many solar farms in China’ and select images. They even have one designed like a Panda. China has the largest solar farming in the world, 250 gw compared with the whole of the EU with 150. I would think countries like Saudi Arabia or others bordering the Sahara could follow suit.
Just my humble view but I really do find it disheartening at all of the disdain, animosity and hate that is poured on these protesters when it really should be directed at the corporations that cause 70% of global emissions or the unsustainable capitalist system that necessitates constant economic growth. If more people directed their energy at the cause of these protests rather than the symptoms then it’s possible that protests like this wouldn’t be needed. We have to realise that there is no planet B and all of our lives, and those of our children and grandchildren will be threatened if we ( and it is a ‘we’ situation) don’t collectively do something. It’s easy to piss and moan but much harder to change.
But that is the crux of the matter. All the while people perceive vehicle pollution, global warming, loss of biodiversity, species extinction, etc, etc to be the problem, the real issue is being almost totally ignored.
It is little to do with corporations or "the unsustainable capitalist system". Frankly, there are just TOO MANY FUCKING (literally) PEOPLE. Until we get population expansion under control we are merely papering over the cracks. If only Greta Thunberg's parents had taken my lead, done their bit for the planet and not produced any offspring:. The world would already be one small step closer to safety.
There is enough to go around for everyone, overpopulation is a myth. The vast majority of emissions are done by a tiny majority of people. Richer nations on average produce far far far more carbon emissions than poorer nations, even if they are more populous.
What needs to happen is less is consumed in the richer nations. I hate it so much that people think the issue is overpopulation rather than overconsumption, seems on the edge of racism/white supremacy to me
I think you are wrong and to suggest my comment was racist is purile. The whole point is that if population growth continues at anything like the current rate there will be insufficient food and water for the people least likely to be able to cope with those problems. As others have mentioned noble charities like Population Matters are hoping to redress the balance before we all kill ourselves by uncontrolled breeding.
They key to this though is ending poverty. As poverty rates fall birth rates reduce as people make other life choices. The average number of children in a family falls as well. There is significant research that shows the best way to reduce population growth (not reduce population) is to pull people out of poverty. This alone wont save the planet but tackling the consumption side as well as forcing large corporations to be better will also help.
I still feel there is a technological solution to this that hasnt yet been found. We need to fund R&D properly in order to survive.
The key as far as I understand it, is actually educating girls / women - a key driver in reducing both poverty and population growth.
What about educating boys/men too?
Will that stop the protesting at the End of the Road?
God knows. The thread has taken quite a shift from the local level!
Is it not now time to strike back, I presume these people travel by their own transport,so shouldnt be hard to detect their vehicles,get them clamped,let the tyres down,form a blockade round them ,dont let them into their cars,then when they cant get home,pubic transport denies them use of their service,somehow these people have to have some grief back.
Seen an interesting take from the motorbike community as to how to deal with these protesters going forward.
The suggestion is that bikes filter to the front, park right in front of them but facing the other way and just sit there revving their engines. See how long they remain sitting with exhaust fumes pouring out 12 inches from their faces......
The list from Stu's link. Got to say I'm astounded Germany and France are in there. It comes across to me as though they are leading the way when it comes to lowering emissions.
A little surprised to see Canada there too, but not Russia
I’m not that surprised Germany are in there, they actually have a manufacturing sector.
Where are the UK on the list?
Okay, but I still find it surprising that France and Germany are on there, but Russia, India and Poland etc aren't. These figures are per capita. Reckon the list would be different if it was total amounts released
Of course - India has about 15 times the population of Germany! I don’t think it’s a case of not releasing that data, it’s just not what this particular table is showing, if you want to see total amounts I’m sure that’s out there.
I would imagine getting accurate (or any) data from some countries would be part of the challenge.
I don't think it's a case of not releasing any data, I'm just pointing out the same as you are. Although still surprised not to see Russia and / or India on there regardless if it was per capita or gros amounts
Today's demo showed the brainless nature of these protesters. Which emphasises the fact they have not asked themselves what are the polution consequences of there plan to insulate 15 million homes. Ask your selves how will this insulation material be made. Does need mining does it need chemical processes to make with consequential polution. How much energy to processes how much energy to transport to 15 million individual residences. What are the waste issues at the lifetime end of the building. But hey let's not think let's just anger people.
Insulating homes means that less energy is required to heat buildings and reduces bills for the consumer. Losing heat through a roof that isn't insulated properly is wasting energy.
We are rightly moving to a greener form of energy producing, however reducing demand is also important. We are going to need more electricity in future as we move towards electric vehicles, and wind and solar are not that reliable as they are dependent on the weather. If we get a big high pressure area over the country in mid winter, the turbines will struggle to turn. Reducing demand by properly insulating homes and not wasting energy is part of the whole picture.
The cause of the protesters is a good one, but the method they are using to advertise that cause is a bad one.
Comments
Which emphasises the fact they have not asked themselves what are the polution consequences of there plan to insulate 15 million homes. Ask your selves how will this insulation material be made. Does need mining does it need chemical processes to make with consequential polution. How much energy to processes how much energy to transport to 15 million individual residences.
What are the waste issues at the lifetime end of the building. But hey let's not think let's just anger people.
Educate girls, bring them out of poverty, give them opportunities in life, the birth rate falls.
Equally the impacts can be pretty immediate and we are always talking about third world developing countries. Pulling people out of relative poverty in the UK can make massive changes to the birth rate in a single generation. I can see examples of this in my own family. Only my mums generation (she's in her late 50s) where her and her siblings didn't attend school very much because their parents weren't that engaged, or because they chose to work on the farm instead or because the responsibility of looking after younger siblings meant you couldn't. My mum left school early with no qualifications. With 4 kids she is the one of her 10 siblings with the (joint) lowest number of kids. Yet with my generation the majority of my cousins either don't want kids or have 1/2 kids.
As I said, there's enough to go around for everyone in a more sustainable manner
As a pp said up thread.....if a few CAFC fans did this on the way / way back from a match on a Sat afternoon I bet the OB wouldn't be idly standing around for hours on end just waiting for me to go home to my cucumber sandwiches.
A little surprised to see Canada there too, but not Russia
Where are the UK on the list?
Sadly a very complex situation that will probably never be solved.
Yes China is frequently cited as the worlds worst polluter in these debates, but not Canada or Germany for example.
In China they are not in denial, indeed they have done things like restricted car travel in Beijing (odd and even number plates on different days) in the past. Climate change will affect China like everywhere else and the authorities there know that, even if their response could be better.
It is a current trope to blame China for almost everything.
Google ‘how many solar farms in China’ and select images. They even have one designed like a Panda.
China has the largest solar farming in the world, 250 gw compared with the whole of the EU with 150.
I would think countries like Saudi Arabia or others bordering the Sahara could follow suit.
The suggestion is that bikes filter to the front, park right in front of them but facing the other way and just sit there revving their engines. See how long they remain sitting with exhaust fumes pouring out 12 inches from their faces......
Seemed like a good idea to me!
We are rightly moving to a greener form of energy producing, however reducing demand is also important. We are going to need more electricity in future as we move towards electric vehicles, and wind and solar are not that reliable as they are dependent on the weather. If we get a big high pressure area over the country in mid winter, the turbines will struggle to turn. Reducing demand by properly insulating homes and not wasting energy is part of the whole picture.
The cause of the protesters is a good one, but the method they are using to advertise that cause is a bad one.
Global CO2 emissions.