I am assuming the Afghani’s obliged to relocate to the UK are destined to be surgeons, bankers, BBC presenters, captains of industry, politicians, Chief Constables, Headteachers, Engineers, Architects, Professors and University Chancellors. I don’t understand the assumption by some that they would necessarily be suited to being HGV drivers.
Conservative MP Tobias Ellwood welcomed the introduction of the temporary visa but said this would not help overnight.
As well as training more domestic drivers and speeding-up testing, Mr Ellwood said hundreds of Afghan refugees could be trained to fill vacancies.
You couldn’t make it up.
Yeah, that’s a f******g great idea, let’s get a bunch of f*****g Afghans, whose security credentials cannot possibly be checked with any real confidence, and put them in charge of dozens of highly explosive f******g petrol tankers.
What could possibly go wrong?
Tobias Ellwood, just another Tory moron.
While probably not for this thread but why is that such a crazy idea? One minute these Afghans are interpreters and hero’s and friends of the west and the next minute their security credentials cannot be checked without any real confidence. There’s 1000s of them here, what they supposed to do for the rest of their lives? Sit in best western hotel rooms watching TV?! We keep being told there’s a labor shortage so let’s get some of these fellows trained up doing something. Maybe driving petrol tankers is a bit too specific but what about fruit picking? Isn’t there a dearth of fruit pickers? I can’t imagine there’d be too much of a security risk doing something like that.
I take your point but just because we have welcomed former helpers and translators into the U.K. because if we hadn’t they would very likely have been executed, we cannot just expect or require them to fill up the jobs that other Brits stick two fingers up to. They are rightly here now and should be afforded exactly the same help and opportunities that we all do. Certainly if they fancy picking a few turnips in Lincolnshire then good on them but no way should they be pressurised into any line of work.
I’m not disputing these peoples right to be here but as we have a labor shortage, these people should be afforded the opportunity and encouraged to fill it. If we want to integrate these people into society then they have to start somewhere. It’s a win win.
They should be offered and encouraged at exactly the same level as you or I or any other Brit.
Conservative MP Tobias Ellwood welcomed the introduction of the temporary visa but said this would not help overnight.
As well as training more domestic drivers and speeding-up testing, Mr Ellwood said hundreds of Afghan refugees could be trained to fill vacancies.
You couldn’t make it up.
Yeah, that’s a f******g great idea, let’s get a bunch of f*****g Afghans, whose security credentials cannot possibly be checked with any real confidence, and put them in charge of dozens of highly explosive f******g petrol tankers.
What could possibly go wrong?
Tobias Ellwood, just another Tory moron.
While probably not for this thread but why is that such a crazy idea? One minute these Afghans are interpreters and hero’s and friends of the west and the next minute their security credentials cannot be checked without any real confidence. There’s 1000s of them here, what they supposed to do for the rest of their lives? Sit in best western hotel rooms watching TV?! We keep being told there’s a labor shortage so let’s get some of these fellows trained up doing something. Maybe driving petrol tankers is a bit too specific but what about fruit picking? Isn’t there a dearth of fruit pickers? I can’t imagine there’d be too much of a security risk doing something like that.
I have nothing against the Afghan refugees and I wish them nothing but the best, their country got fucked over - again - by the US and UK - and there is indeed a moral imperative to look after them.
However, the evacuation of Kabul was an absolute shambles and visa processing was being rushed through at an unprecedented pace, there is no way to be absolutely sure of their credentials and you sure as shit won’t be able to find out now the Taliban are in charge.
That being the case then driving petrol tankers - that could quite literally be used as a weapon of huge destruction that could cause absolute devastation - is perhaps not quite the best job to be putting these folks into at this stage of the game.
Tobias Elwood actually said that there are trained Afghan HGV drivers who drove bigger vehicles for us out there. I see no reason why they shouldn’t be retrained to drive similar vehicles here. Maybe not petrol tankers but certainly other classes of HGV.
Suppose they don’t want to drive lorries here ? They should only be retrained if that’s what they want. Perhaps they aspire to something else.
Conservative MP Tobias Ellwood welcomed the introduction of the temporary visa but said this would not help overnight.
As well as training more domestic drivers and speeding-up testing, Mr Ellwood said hundreds of Afghan refugees could be trained to fill vacancies.
You couldn’t make it up.
Yeah, that’s a f******g great idea, let’s get a bunch of f*****g Afghans, whose security credentials cannot possibly be checked with any real confidence, and put them in charge of dozens of highly explosive f******g petrol tankers.
What could possibly go wrong?
Tobias Ellwood, just another Tory moron.
While probably not for this thread but why is that such a crazy idea? One minute these Afghans are interpreters and hero’s and friends of the west and the next minute their security credentials cannot be checked without any real confidence. There’s 1000s of them here, what they supposed to do for the rest of their lives? Sit in best western hotel rooms watching TV?! We keep being told there’s a labor shortage so let’s get some of these fellows trained up doing something. Maybe driving petrol tankers is a bit too specific but what about fruit picking? Isn’t there a dearth of fruit pickers? I can’t imagine there’d be too much of a security risk doing something like that.
I take your point but just because we have welcomed former helpers and translators into the U.K. because if we hadn’t they would very likely have been executed, we cannot just expect or require them to fill up the jobs that other Brits stick two fingers up to. They are rightly here now and should be afforded exactly the same help and opportunities that we all do. Certainly if they fancy picking a few turnips in Lincolnshire then good on them but no way should they be pressurised into any line of work.
I’m not disputing these peoples right to be here but as we have a labor shortage, these people should be afforded the opportunity and encouraged to fill it. If we want to integrate these people into society then they have to start somewhere. It’s a win win.
They should be offered and encouraged at exactly the same level as you or I or any other Brit.
As you said, there are jobs offered to Brits that they have stick their fingers up to so let’s offer those same jobs to Afghan refugees.
Conservative MP Tobias Ellwood welcomed the introduction of the temporary visa but said this would not help overnight.
As well as training more domestic drivers and speeding-up testing, Mr Ellwood said hundreds of Afghan refugees could be trained to fill vacancies.
You couldn’t make it up.
Yeah, that’s a f******g great idea, let’s get a bunch of f*****g Afghans, whose security credentials cannot possibly be checked with any real confidence, and put them in charge of dozens of highly explosive f******g petrol tankers.
What could possibly go wrong?
Tobias Ellwood, just another Tory moron.
That really is quite offensive. I know you are saying it because you have a point that you have to make, but I don't really like thinking of people like that, and I suspect in most cases (where it didn't suit you shoehorning a political point in) you wouldn't either.
You sound like some sort of Britain First Facebook page.
I am assuming the Afghani’s obliged to relocate to the UK are destined to be surgeons, bankers, BBC presenters, captains of industry, politicians, Chief Constables, Headteachers, Engineers, Architects, Professors and University Chancellors. I don’t understand the assumption by some that they would necessarily be suited to being HGV drivers.
And yet there are others who think they should be actively prevented from being HGV drivers.
I play for baldon sports at the coop club opposite eltham town. Been told it’s gridlocked already there this morning as the shell garage is opposite and no one can get in the ground!
probably too late now but if you approach from elthanm u will be fine - from new eltham just park in footscray rugby club - its the road from the crossways that you need to avoid
I am assuming the Afghani’s obliged to relocate to the UK are destined to be surgeons, bankers, BBC presenters, captains of industry, politicians, Chief Constables, Headteachers, Engineers, Architects, Professors and University Chancellors. I don’t understand the assumption by some that they would necessarily be suited to being HGV drivers.
And yet there are others who think they should be actively prevented from being HGV drivers.
There are others also who think they should actively be prevented from being here.
I am assuming the Afghani’s obliged to relocate to the UK are destined to be surgeons, bankers, BBC presenters, captains of industry, politicians, Chief Constables, Headteachers, Engineers, Architects, Professors and University Chancellors. I don’t understand the assumption by some that they would necessarily be suited to being HGV drivers.
Going off topic, but I do agree with this. I remember watching a programme once that highlighted an individual who was a doctor over in Iraq, came over here as a result of the Iraq war and was working for a supermarket. Not that there is anything wrong with working in a supermarket, but I think there’s always a danger that Refugees are grouped together as helpless villagers from some war torn city that live very simple lives.
Conservative MP Tobias Ellwood welcomed the introduction of the temporary visa but said this would not help overnight.
As well as training more domestic drivers and speeding-up testing, Mr Ellwood said hundreds of Afghan refugees could be trained to fill vacancies.
You couldn’t make it up.
Yeah, that’s a f******g great idea, let’s get a bunch of f*****g Afghans, whose security credentials cannot possibly be checked with any real confidence, and put them in charge of dozens of highly explosive f******g petrol tankers.
What could possibly go wrong?
Tobias Ellwood, just another Tory moron.
Wow - where to start with this one...
Actually, I'll leave it because it will simply take the thread down the wrong route with the same old suspects...
As I said above, I have nothing against the Afghan refugees, they deserve a new life in the UK after what we and the Americans put them through over the last twenty years.
My problem is with the simplified bullshit that Tory MPs like Ellwood come out with like this hair-brained scheme to fix a problem caused primarily by his own party’s decision to quit the European Union.
The evacuation of Kabul was an absolute shit show, a lot of work is still being done on processing the claims of Afghans that have arrived in the UK to establish peoples bona fides.
This is incredibly complex work and often it’s impossible to verify the claims being made by an individual because this is Afghanistan we are talking about and not Singapore or Germany with incredibly efficient public administration.
You didn't have to refer to Afghan refugees in such a derogatory way.
Conservative MP Tobias Ellwood welcomed the introduction of the temporary visa but said this would not help overnight.
As well as training more domestic drivers and speeding-up testing, Mr Ellwood said hundreds of Afghan refugees could be trained to fill vacancies.
You couldn’t make it up.
Yeah, that’s a f******g great idea, let’s get a bunch of f*****g Afghans, whose security credentials cannot possibly be checked with any real confidence, and put them in charge of dozens of highly explosive f******g petrol tankers.
What could possibly go wrong?
Tobias Ellwood, just another Tory moron.
While probably not for this thread but why is that such a crazy idea? One minute these Afghans are interpreters and hero’s and friends of the west and the next minute their security credentials cannot be checked without any real confidence. There’s 1000s of them here, what they supposed to do for the rest of their lives? Sit in best western hotel rooms watching TV?! We keep being told there’s a labor shortage so let’s get some of these fellows trained up doing something. Maybe driving petrol tankers is a bit too specific but what about fruit picking? Isn’t there a dearth of fruit pickers? I can’t imagine there’d be too much of a security risk doing something like that.
I take your point but just because we have welcomed former helpers and translators into the U.K. because if we hadn’t they would very likely have been executed, we cannot just expect or require them to fill up the jobs that other Brits stick two fingers up to. They are rightly here now and should be afforded exactly the same help and opportunities that we all do. Certainly if they fancy picking a few turnips in Lincolnshire then good on them but no way should they be pressurised into any line of work.
I’m not disputing these peoples right to be here but as we have a labor shortage, these people should be afforded the opportunity and encouraged to fill it. If we want to integrate these people into society then they have to start somewhere. It’s a win win.
They should be offered and encouraged at exactly the same level as you or I or any other Brit.
As you said, there are jobs offered to Brits that they have stick their fingers up to so let’s offer those same jobs to Afghan refugees.
Do you really mean this? Afghani refugees have to hang around and get the job leftovers that people born here refuse after having first dibs? So an Afghani refugee who might be a Brain Surgeon has to hang around for a drivers job, whilst a UK person hums and ha’s as to whether they would take it? Why is there a ‘first then second’ scenario for refugees who helped the UK in it’s hour of need? Surely you would wish to give Afghani refugees the exact same equal rights and opportunities as people born here?
I am assuming the Afghani’s obliged to relocate to the UK are destined to be surgeons, bankers, BBC presenters, captains of industry, politicians, Chief Constables, Headteachers, Engineers, Architects, Professors and University Chancellors. I don’t understand the assumption by some that they would necessarily be suited to being HGV drivers.
Going off topic, but I do agree with this. I remember watching a programme once that highlighted an individual who was a doctor over in Iraq, came over here as a result of the Iraq war and was working for a supermarket. Not that there is anything wrong with working in a supermarket, but I think there’s always a danger that Refugees are grouped together as helpless villagers from some war torn city that live very simple lives.
Those involved assisting the British forces in Afghanistan would usually be the better educated. I’m not suggesting that some weren’t driving trucks for us and might be only too happy to continue with that here in the U.K. but agree that to assume any of the Afghans plucked from the carnage of Kabul will want or should do that is wrong.
Conservative MP Tobias Ellwood welcomed the introduction of the temporary visa but said this would not help overnight.
As well as training more domestic drivers and speeding-up testing, Mr Ellwood said hundreds of Afghan refugees could be trained to fill vacancies.
You couldn’t make it up.
Yeah, that’s a f******g great idea, let’s get a bunch of f*****g Afghans, whose security credentials cannot possibly be checked with any real confidence, and put them in charge of dozens of highly explosive f******g petrol tankers.
What could possibly go wrong?
Tobias Ellwood, just another Tory moron.
Wow - where to start with this one...
Actually, I'll leave it because it will simply take the thread down the wrong route with the same old suspects...
As I said above, I have nothing against the Afghan refugees, they deserve a new life in the UK after what we and the Americans put them through over the last twenty years.
My problem is with the simplified bullshit that Tory MPs like Ellwood come out with like this hair-brained scheme to fix a problem caused primarily by his own party’s decision to quit the European Union.
The evacuation of Kabul was an absolute shit show, a lot of work is still being done on processing the claims of Afghans that have arrived in the UK to establish peoples bona fides.
This is incredibly complex work and often it’s impossible to verify the claims being made by an individual because this is Afghanistan we are talking about and not Singapore or Germany with incredibly efficient public administration.
I wonder why you continue to ignore the reams of evidence as to why there is a shortage of hgv drivers, or the fact it is Europe wide?
Or the fact that several thousand Afghans who worked with our forces are known in detail and possess a range of skills including working in Military supply bases.
Conservative MP Tobias Ellwood welcomed the introduction of the temporary visa but said this would not help overnight.
As well as training more domestic drivers and speeding-up testing, Mr Ellwood said hundreds of Afghan refugees could be trained to fill vacancies.
You couldn’t make it up.
Yeah, that’s a f******g great idea, let’s get a bunch of f*****g Afghans, whose security credentials cannot possibly be checked with any real confidence, and put them in charge of dozens of highly explosive f******g petrol tankers.
What could possibly go wrong?
Tobias Ellwood, just another Tory moron.
Wow - where to start with this one...
Actually, I'll leave it because it will simply take the thread down the wrong route with the same old suspects...
As I said above, I have nothing against the Afghan refugees, they deserve a new life in the UK after what we and the Americans put them through over the last twenty years.
My problem is with the simplified bullshit that Tory MPs like Ellwood come out with like this hair-brained scheme to fix a problem caused primarily by his own party’s decision to quit the European Union.
The evacuation of Kabul was an absolute shit show, a lot of work is still being done on processing the claims of Afghans that have arrived in the UK to establish peoples bona fides.
This is incredibly complex work and often it’s impossible to verify the claims being made by an individual because this is Afghanistan we are talking about and not Singapore or Germany with incredibly efficient public administration.
I wonder why you continue to ignore the reams of evidence as to why there is a shortage of hgv drivers, or the fact it is Europe wide?
@MrWalker I’m assuming you are denying the impact of Brexit on this driver shortage ?
Conservative MP Tobias Ellwood welcomed the introduction of the temporary visa but said this would not help overnight.
As well as training more domestic drivers and speeding-up testing, Mr Ellwood said hundreds of Afghan refugees could be trained to fill vacancies.
You couldn’t make it up.
Yeah, that’s a f******g great idea, let’s get a bunch of f*****g Afghans, whose security credentials cannot possibly be checked with any real confidence, and put them in charge of dozens of highly explosive f******g petrol tankers.
What could possibly go wrong?
Tobias Ellwood, just another Tory moron.
Wow - where to start with this one...
Actually, I'll leave it because it will simply take the thread down the wrong route with the same old suspects...
As I said above, I have nothing against the Afghan refugees, they deserve a new life in the UK after what we and the Americans put them through over the last twenty years.
My problem is with the simplified bullshit that Tory MPs like Ellwood come out with like this hair-brained scheme to fix a problem caused primarily by his own party’s decision to quit the European Union.
The evacuation of Kabul was an absolute shit show, a lot of work is still being done on processing the claims of Afghans that have arrived in the UK to establish peoples bona fides.
This is incredibly complex work and often it’s impossible to verify the claims being made by an individual because this is Afghanistan we are talking about and not Singapore or Germany with incredibly efficient public administration.
I wonder why you continue to ignore the reams of evidence as to why there is a shortage of hgv drivers, or the fact it is Europe wide?
@MrWalker I’m assuming you are denying the impact of Brexit on this driver shortage ?
I'm denying it's the "Primary" reason. Surely you can't be arguing otherwise?
Conservative MP Tobias Ellwood welcomed the introduction of the temporary visa but said this would not help overnight.
As well as training more domestic drivers and speeding-up testing, Mr Ellwood said hundreds of Afghan refugees could be trained to fill vacancies.
You couldn’t make it up.
Yeah, that’s a f******g great idea, let’s get a bunch of f*****g Afghans, whose security credentials cannot possibly be checked with any real confidence, and put them in charge of dozens of highly explosive f******g petrol tankers.
What could possibly go wrong?
Tobias Ellwood, just another Tory moron.
While probably not for this thread but why is that such a crazy idea? One minute these Afghans are interpreters and hero’s and friends of the west and the next minute their security credentials cannot be checked without any real confidence. There’s 1000s of them here, what they supposed to do for the rest of their lives? Sit in best western hotel rooms watching TV?! We keep being told there’s a labor shortage so let’s get some of these fellows trained up doing something. Maybe driving petrol tankers is a bit too specific but what about fruit picking? Isn’t there a dearth of fruit pickers? I can’t imagine there’d be too much of a security risk doing something like that.
I take your point but just because we have welcomed former helpers and translators into the U.K. because if we hadn’t they would very likely have been executed, we cannot just expect or require them to fill up the jobs that other Brits stick two fingers up to. They are rightly here now and should be afforded exactly the same help and opportunities that we all do. Certainly if they fancy picking a few turnips in Lincolnshire then good on them but no way should they be pressurised into any line of work.
I’m not disputing these peoples right to be here but as we have a labor shortage, these people should be afforded the opportunity and encouraged to fill it. If we want to integrate these people into society then they have to start somewhere. It’s a win win.
They should be offered and encouraged at exactly the same level as you or I or any other Brit.
As you said, there are jobs offered to Brits that they have stick their fingers up to so let’s offer those same jobs to Afghan refugees.
Do you really mean this? Afghani refugees have to hang around and get the job leftovers that people born here refuse after having first dibs? So an Afghani refugee who might be a Brain Surgeon has to hang around for a drivers job, whilst a UK person hums and ha’s as to whether they would take it? Why is there a ‘first then second’ scenario for refugees who helped the UK in it’s hour of need? Surely you would wish to give Afghani refugees the exact same equal rights and opportunities as people born here?
I believe exactly what Ive written. Taking your brain surgeon analogy. I would expect them to be retained to meet the requirements that we have in this country for brain surgeons. I would expect that it’s widely different in Afghanistan. There is a labor shortage doing minimum wage jobs so these should also be offered to Afghan refugees as well as people born here.
Conservative MP Tobias Ellwood welcomed the introduction of the temporary visa but said this would not help overnight.
As well as training more domestic drivers and speeding-up testing, Mr Ellwood said hundreds of Afghan refugees could be trained to fill vacancies.
You couldn’t make it up.
Yeah, that’s a f******g great idea, let’s get a bunch of f*****g Afghans, whose security credentials cannot possibly be checked with any real confidence, and put them in charge of dozens of highly explosive f******g petrol tankers.
What could possibly go wrong?
Tobias Ellwood, just another Tory moron.
Wow - where to start with this one...
Actually, I'll leave it because it will simply take the thread down the wrong route with the same old suspects...
As I said above, I have nothing against the Afghan refugees, they deserve a new life in the UK after what we and the Americans put them through over the last twenty years.
My problem is with the simplified bullshit that Tory MPs like Ellwood come out with like this hair-brained scheme to fix a problem caused primarily by his own party’s decision to quit the European Union.
The evacuation of Kabul was an absolute shit show, a lot of work is still being done on processing the claims of Afghans that have arrived in the UK to establish peoples bona fides.
This is incredibly complex work and often it’s impossible to verify the claims being made by an individual because this is Afghanistan we are talking about and not Singapore or Germany with incredibly efficient public administration.
I wonder why you continue to ignore the reams of evidence as to why there is a shortage of hgv drivers, or the fact it is Europe wide?
@MrWalker I’m assuming you are denying the impact of Brexit on this driver shortage ?
I'm denying it's the "Primary" reason. Surely you can't be arguing otherwise?
Companies should have registered their European employees before the 1st July. If they were residents and legally to work in the UK then wasn’t a problem . When the pandemic kicked in Eastern European’s returned to their countries, this has now seen a lack of staff in many sectors such as hospitality and farming.
Conservative MP Tobias Ellwood welcomed the introduction of the temporary visa but said this would not help overnight.
As well as training more domestic drivers and speeding-up testing, Mr Ellwood said hundreds of Afghan refugees could be trained to fill vacancies.
You couldn’t make it up.
Yeah, that’s a f******g great idea, let’s get a bunch of f*****g Afghans, whose security credentials cannot possibly be checked with any real confidence, and put them in charge of dozens of highly explosive f******g petrol tankers.
What could possibly go wrong?
Tobias Ellwood, just another Tory moron.
While probably not for this thread but why is that such a crazy idea? One minute these Afghans are interpreters and hero’s and friends of the west and the next minute their security credentials cannot be checked without any real confidence. There’s 1000s of them here, what they supposed to do for the rest of their lives? Sit in best western hotel rooms watching TV?! We keep being told there’s a labor shortage so let’s get some of these fellows trained up doing something. Maybe driving petrol tankers is a bit too specific but what about fruit picking? Isn’t there a dearth of fruit pickers? I can’t imagine there’d be too much of a security risk doing something like that.
I have nothing against the Afghan refugees...
Probably best not to refer to them as "a bunch of f*****g Afghans" then.
Those that oppose refugees finding decent, well paid employment are the very same people who would be frothing at the mouth at them 'coming over here and claiming benefits'.
I remember an interview on the BBC with an Afghan interpreter who had come over here with his young family, he couldn't wait to get out of his hotel quarantine and find some work. He had a young boy who had been staring out of the hotel window for days telling his dad all the adventures he was going to have once they were out.
I really hope that man and his family don't come across the poisonous element in our society who seem to think they should 'know their place'. These people are part of our country now, and in many cases have served alongside people who have fought for our country, and whether people like it or not they should be afforded the same opportunities as everyone else. When did our society become so selfish and self-obsessed that we can't see people in need and want to help them? Many of these refugees will be highly skilled, some may be Doctors, Nurses etc and I am sure they will go on to help countless people themselves once they become integrated into our country.
You regularly see this poisonous element posting on FB about 'Supporting our Troops' and alike, despite the fact most of those posting would never have the bravery to serve themselves. It is interesting that a lot of these refugees have managed to get to the UK because troops who served with them have vouched for them and fought hard to force the Government's hand on this.
Those moaning about them being given the opportunity of driving HGV's forget plenty of Brits have had the opportunity for years to pass a HGV test if they wish. Granted you need some capital to afford the training but other than that all you have to do is pass the exam and medical. Many haven't done so because they don't think the salary is good enough, or that the terms and conditions are poor. That's fair enough, but let's not pretend anyone has come over here and taken jobs away from British people.
Conservative MP Tobias Ellwood welcomed the introduction of the temporary visa but said this would not help overnight.
As well as training more domestic drivers and speeding-up testing, Mr Ellwood said hundreds of Afghan refugees could be trained to fill vacancies.
You couldn’t make it up.
Yeah, that’s a f******g great idea, let’s get a bunch of f*****g Afghans, whose security credentials cannot possibly be checked with any real confidence, and put them in charge of dozens of highly explosive f******g petrol tankers.
What could possibly go wrong?
Tobias Ellwood, just another Tory moron.
Wow - where to start with this one...
Actually, I'll leave it because it will simply take the thread down the wrong route with the same old suspects...
As I said above, I have nothing against the Afghan refugees, they deserve a new life in the UK after what we and the Americans put them through over the last twenty years.
My problem is with the simplified bullshit that Tory MPs like Ellwood come out with like this hair-brained scheme to fix a problem caused primarily by his own party’s decision to quit the European Union.
The evacuation of Kabul was an absolute shit show, a lot of work is still being done on processing the claims of Afghans that have arrived in the UK to establish peoples bona fides.
This is incredibly complex work and often it’s impossible to verify the claims being made by an individual because this is Afghanistan we are talking about and not Singapore or Germany with incredibly efficient public administration.
I wonder why you continue to ignore the reams of evidence as to why there is a shortage of hgv drivers, or the fact it is Europe wide?
@MrWalker I’m assuming you are denying the impact of Brexit on this driver shortage ?
I'm denying it's the "Primary" reason. Surely you can't be arguing otherwise?
No it’s not the primary reason. That’s a retiring and ageing workforce. Same across all of Europe it seems. It is though the second biggest issue here in the U.K. according to the Road Haulage Association members. You surely can’t deny that if if Brexit wasn’t an issue then what is the purpose of trying to coax back Eastern European’s to drive our HGV’s when that is both embarrassing for the government and undermines one of the pillars of Brexit ideology?
Conservative MP Tobias Ellwood welcomed the introduction of the temporary visa but said this would not help overnight.
As well as training more domestic drivers and speeding-up testing, Mr Ellwood said hundreds of Afghan refugees could be trained to fill vacancies.
You couldn’t make it up.
Yeah, that’s a f******g great idea, let’s get a bunch of f*****g Afghans, whose security credentials cannot possibly be checked with any real confidence, and put them in charge of dozens of highly explosive f******g petrol tankers.
What could possibly go wrong?
Tobias Ellwood, just another Tory moron.
While probably not for this thread but why is that such a crazy idea? One minute these Afghans are interpreters and hero’s and friends of the west and the next minute their security credentials cannot be checked without any real confidence. There’s 1000s of them here, what they supposed to do for the rest of their lives? Sit in best western hotel rooms watching TV?! We keep being told there’s a labor shortage so let’s get some of these fellows trained up doing something. Maybe driving petrol tankers is a bit too specific but what about fruit picking? Isn’t there a dearth of fruit pickers? I can’t imagine there’d be too much of a security risk doing something like that.
I take your point but just because we have welcomed former helpers and translators into the U.K. because if we hadn’t they would very likely have been executed, we cannot just expect or require them to fill up the jobs that other Brits stick two fingers up to. They are rightly here now and should be afforded exactly the same help and opportunities that we all do. Certainly if they fancy picking a few turnips in Lincolnshire then good on them but no way should they be pressurised into any line of work.
I’m not disputing these peoples right to be here but as we have a labor shortage, these people should be afforded the opportunity and encouraged to fill it. If we want to integrate these people into society then they have to start somewhere. It’s a win win.
They should be offered and encouraged at exactly the same level as you or I or any other Brit.
As you said, there are jobs offered to Brits that they have stick their fingers up to so let’s offer those same jobs to Afghan refugees.
Do you really mean this? Afghani refugees have to hang around and get the job leftovers that people born here refuse after having first dibs? So an Afghani refugee who might be a Brain Surgeon has to hang around for a drivers job, whilst a UK person hums and ha’s as to whether they would take it? Why is there a ‘first then second’ scenario for refugees who helped the UK in it’s hour of need? Surely you would wish to give Afghani refugees the exact same equal rights and opportunities as people born here?
I believe exactly what Ive written. Taking your brain surgeon analogy. I would expect them to be retained to meet the requirements that we have in this country for brain surgeons. I would expect that it’s widely different in Afghanistan. There is a labor shortage doing minimum wage jobs so these should also be offered to Afghan refugees as well as people born here.
OK you’re not saying there is an order of precedent with local born people ‘offered’ jobs first and then Afghani refugees ‘offered’ those jobs second. There is a system where jobs ‘offered’ follow an application for said jobs. People ought to have the chance to be sentient in their decision to apply whatever their background, and hopefully not forced or pressured into doing jobs that don’t suit. I am delighted that you don’t see refugees as some kind of workforce waiting to be somehow deployed according to what is convenient to the ruling class.
@MrWalker I’m assuming you are denying the impact of Brexit on this driver shortage ?
I'm denying it's the "Primary" reason. Surely you can't be arguing otherwise?
It's not the Primary Reason but it's clearly a major contributing factor otherwise Johnson wouldn't be issuing Visas to EU Drivers would he ?
There are Global Supply Chain problems and a shortage of drivers across the EU and USA. However, the UK has been more severely hit with supply chain problems that actually aren't just caused by just a driver shortage but also congestion at our ports in particular Felixstowe. As a Net Importer of food delays at border points are also impacting on the supply chain and the shortage of drivers is the straw that has broken the camels back.
EU logistics companies are saying we don't want to deliver into the UK. Too much hassle with paperwork, delays etc etc. There is more than enough logistics work in the EU to keep them busy.
So retiring UK Drivers is the main reason for a driver shortage. Brexit didn't help when 18% of drivers buggered off. But other EU logistics companies that were helping move our goods have pulled out of the UK altogether.
All in all the picture is not great and Brexit is a major contributing factor to it.
been a bit laid up for last 10 days with a cold - wife reports there is 10 miles worth of petrol in the car - any tips ? i'm in sidcup - where's the nearest open station - tesco's? one by elthan town??? can't afford to drive round looking and will i make it sitting in a queue baring in mind my lack of petrol??
been a bit laid up for last 10 days with a cold - wife reports there is 10 miles worth of petrol in the car - any tips ? i'm in sidcup - where's the nearest open station - tesco's? one by elthan town??? can't afford to drive round looking and will i make it sitting in a queue baring in mind my lack of petrol??
Conservative MP Tobias Ellwood welcomed the introduction of the temporary visa but said this would not help overnight.
As well as training more domestic drivers and speeding-up testing, Mr Ellwood said hundreds of Afghan refugees could be trained to fill vacancies.
You couldn’t make it up.
Yeah, that’s a f******g great idea, let’s get a bunch of f*****g Afghans, whose security credentials cannot possibly be checked with any real confidence, and put them in charge of dozens of highly explosive f******g petrol tankers.
What could possibly go wrong?
Tobias Ellwood, just another Tory moron.
Wow - where to start with this one...
Actually, I'll leave it because it will simply take the thread down the wrong route with the same old suspects...
As I said above, I have nothing against the Afghan refugees, they deserve a new life in the UK after what we and the Americans put them through over the last twenty years.
My problem is with the simplified bullshit that Tory MPs like Ellwood come out with like this hair-brained scheme to fix a problem caused primarily by his own party’s decision to quit the European Union.
The evacuation of Kabul was an absolute shit show, a lot of work is still being done on processing the claims of Afghans that have arrived in the UK to establish peoples bona fides.
This is incredibly complex work and often it’s impossible to verify the claims being made by an individual because this is Afghanistan we are talking about and not Singapore or Germany with incredibly efficient public administration.
I wonder why you continue to ignore the reams of evidence as to why there is a shortage of hgv drivers, or the fact it is Europe wide?
@MrWalker I’m assuming you are denying the impact of Brexit on this driver shortage ?
I'm denying it's the "Primary" reason. Surely you can't be arguing otherwise?
No it’s not the primary reason. That’s a retiring and ageing workforce. Same across all of Europe it seems. It is though the second biggest issue here in the U.K. according to the Road Haulage Association members. You surely can’t deny that if if Brexit wasn’t an issue then what is the purpose of trying to coax back Eastern European’s to drive our HGV’s when that is both embarrassing for the government and undermines one of the pillars of Brexit ideology?
I was correcting another ignorant post that flies in the face of all the evidence presented. I'm glad you agree it needed correcting.
''The Freight Transport Association and the Road Haulage Association issued a joint statement last year saying the industry is short by about 45,000 drivers, and another 40,000 are likely to leave by 2017.
Why?
The average age of drivers is high - around 53 and more people are retiring than starting in the job. But that’s not the whole story. There are lots of men and women out there who are qualified as HGV drivers but who don’t currently drive for a living - nearly 80,000 according to the Office for National Statistics. You probably know a few of them - you could even be one yourself.
It seems other jobs are more attractive than driving a truck right now. Reasons could include low pay, unsociable hours and stress, stricter medical requirements, and tougher validation like CPC. In surveys, drivers also complain of a lack of respect for the industry as a whole.''
After the ageing demographic, tests were cancelled due to Covid, so probably the second biggest reason?
The RHA suggests the UK Driver and Vehicle Standards Agency cancelled “at least” 30,000 HGV driver testing slots last year, with reports citing Covid as the reason.
Perhaps the RHA should have set plans in place from 2010, well before Covid, the elderly demographics and the working conditions of the profession and Brexit?
I'm happy to resolve the situation in whatever way, but doubt we can entice any many/any of the 18% who left for other EU countries back without significant change to working conditions for the HGV drivers.
Many EU countries dont allow HGV work on Sundays or Bank Holidays and the UK wages, exchange rates and conditions have progressively made working in the UK haulage industry less attractive.
been a bit laid up for last 10 days with a cold - wife reports there is 10 miles worth of petrol in the car - any tips ? i'm in sidcup - where's the nearest open station - tesco's? one by elthan town??? can't afford to drive round looking and will i make it sitting in a queue baring in mind my lack of petrol??
When do you next need to use it, as I would think by midweek next week this should all have calmed down once the sheep have a full tank.
Comments
That really is quite offensive. I know you are saying it because you have a point that you have to make, but I don't really like thinking of people like that, and I suspect in most cases (where it didn't suit you shoehorning a political point in) you wouldn't either.
You sound like some sort of Britain First Facebook page.
Afghani refugees have to hang around and get the job leftovers that people born here refuse after having first dibs?
So an Afghani refugee who might be a Brain Surgeon has to hang around for a drivers job, whilst a UK person hums and ha’s as to whether they would take it?
Why is there a ‘first then second’ scenario for refugees who helped the UK in it’s hour of need?
Surely you would wish to give Afghani refugees the exact same equal rights and opportunities as people born here?
Or the fact that several thousand Afghans who worked with our forces are known in detail and possess a range of skills including working in Military supply bases.
I’m assuming you are denying the impact of Brexit on this driver shortage ?
A lot of other main stations in Medway are closed though
I remember an interview on the BBC with an Afghan interpreter who had come over here with his young family, he couldn't wait to get out of his hotel quarantine and find some work. He had a young boy who had been staring out of the hotel window for days telling his dad all the adventures he was going to have once they were out.
I really hope that man and his family don't come across the poisonous element in our society who seem to think they should 'know their place'. These people are part of our country now, and in many cases have served alongside people who have fought for our country, and whether people like it or not they should be afforded the same opportunities as everyone else. When did our society become so selfish and self-obsessed that we can't see people in need and want to help them? Many of these refugees will be highly skilled, some may be Doctors, Nurses etc and I am sure they will go on to help countless people themselves once they become integrated into our country.
You regularly see this poisonous element posting on FB about 'Supporting our Troops' and alike, despite the fact most of those posting would never have the bravery to serve themselves. It is interesting that a lot of these refugees have managed to get to the UK because troops who served with them have vouched for them and fought hard to force the Government's hand on this.
Those moaning about them being given the opportunity of driving HGV's forget plenty of Brits have had the opportunity for years to pass a HGV test if they wish. Granted you need some capital to afford the training but other than that all you have to do is pass the exam and medical. Many haven't done so because they don't think the salary is good enough, or that the terms and conditions are poor. That's fair enough, but let's not pretend anyone has come over here and taken jobs away from British people.
There is a system where jobs ‘offered’ follow an application for said jobs.
People ought to have the chance to be sentient in their decision to apply whatever their background, and hopefully not forced or pressured into doing jobs that don’t suit.
I am delighted that you don’t see refugees as some kind of workforce waiting to be somehow deployed according to what is convenient to the ruling class.
There are Global Supply Chain problems and a shortage of drivers across the EU and USA. However, the UK has been more severely hit with supply chain problems that actually aren't just caused by just a driver shortage but also congestion at our ports in particular Felixstowe. As a Net Importer of food delays at border points are also impacting on the supply chain and the shortage of drivers is the straw that has broken the camels back.
EU logistics companies are saying we don't want to deliver into the UK. Too much hassle with paperwork, delays etc etc. There is more than enough logistics work in the EU to keep them busy.
So retiring UK Drivers is the main reason for a driver shortage. Brexit didn't help when 18% of drivers buggered off. But other EU logistics companies that were helping move our goods have pulled out of the UK altogether.
All in all the picture is not great and Brexit is a major contributing factor to it.
If it's the ''second biggest'' reason, why was there a shortage of 10's of thousands pre Brexit and pre Covid? This article from 2016 states the case
https://roadstars.mercedes-benz-trucks.com/en_GB/magazine/2016/october/disappearing-drivers-why-the-uk-desperately-needs-more-truckers.html
''The Freight Transport Association and the Road Haulage Association issued a joint statement last year saying the industry is short by about 45,000 drivers, and another 40,000 are likely to leave by 2017.
Why?
The average age of drivers is high - around 53 and more people are retiring than starting in the job. But that’s not the whole story. There are lots of men and women out there who are qualified as HGV drivers but who don’t currently drive for a living - nearly 80,000 according to the Office for National Statistics. You probably know a few of them - you could even be one yourself.
It seems other jobs are more attractive than driving a truck right now. Reasons could include low pay, unsociable hours and stress, stricter medical requirements, and tougher validation like CPC. In surveys, drivers also complain of a lack of respect for the industry as a whole.''
After the ageing demographic, tests were cancelled due to Covid, so probably the second biggest reason?
The RHA suggests the UK Driver and Vehicle Standards Agency cancelled “at least” 30,000 HGV driver testing slots last year, with reports citing Covid as the reason.
Perhaps the RHA should have set plans in place from 2010, well before Covid, the elderly demographics and the working conditions of the profession and Brexit?
I'm happy to resolve the situation in whatever way, but doubt we can entice any many/any of the 18% who left for other EU countries back without significant change to working conditions for the HGV drivers.
Many EU countries dont allow HGV work on Sundays or Bank Holidays and the UK wages, exchange rates and conditions have progressively made working in the UK haulage industry less attractive.